it's on the cloud but no one wants much much more the. fall that that on that me obviously have exposed them to march and possibly they are relieved that all the possibilities for many years so they want much more money and they want it now and these projects are with these 12 the funding that plus. 8 more that this project is thing than i you just lie since the very beginning and what we have thought your book you have a slice of 3 and let the 50 medium or all those just for subscribing to this part. and this is on the savings of the top stories india's capital region of delhi will all go under a week long curfew from monday night as the country battles

a record surge in infections almost 274000 new cases were recorded in the last 24 hours a more than 1600 deaths. hundreds of passengers from have arrived in new zealand after their governments reopened borders families and friends of reuniting after the 2 countries launched a so-called travel bubble on monday it allows quarantine free travel for the 1st time in more than a year. these foreign policy chief says russia is responsible for kremlin critic alexina and must provide him with medical care the u.s. is one of consequences if he dies in prison is in the 3rd week of a hunger strike close allies of the volley of called for massive protests in moscow and st petersburg and. have you ever seen with your own eyes how someone is killed you are seeing it right now whatever the people have to look the other way and not think about it change the subject that doesn't change the fact that alexina valley is being killed in

a terrible way and in front of everyone's eyes there have been reports of shelling in eastern ukraine radio free europe has published a video showing soldiers inside a trench and the sound of gunfire heard in the distance the footage hasn't been independently verified. about the political party in pakistan has released 11 police officers that took hostage during protests on sunday police had earlier raided the offices of the ella baker which led to violent protests that killed 3 people a monitoring group in myanmar is warning the military will continue to torture and murder of pro-democracy activists if the international community doesn't act is systems association for political prisoners made the plea after state t.v. broadcast images of 16 ease with signs of what it called abuse those are the headlines coming up next on al-jazeera fronts good bye for now. on counting the cost of the versus the markets for the turkish economy already on the brink will

the president's unconventional economics take over yet cosmos and the huge gas reserves big investors and an insurgency could do you a little. counting the costs on al-jazeera is capitalism fundamentally at odds with the climate last naomi klein so on in this up front special. in 291-1000 scientists issued a chilling warning to the world they predicted untold suffering due to the climate crisis unless global society undertook a major transformation but almost 2 years on and there's been little if any meaningful progress on transforming how we all live in interact with the environment and climate change is getting worse global temperatures are rising not

falling so is it finally time to launch a new and radical approach joining us to discuss this are naomi klein gloria steinem chair in media culture and feminist studies at wrecker's university and author of numerous books her latest one being how to change everything and sharma's so one seattle city council member economist member of socialist alternative thank you both for joining me on up front naomi i'm going to start with you it's been 7 years since the release of your book this changes everything capitalism versus the climate where you argue for a system change in order to save the planet now in the midst of a global pandemic we are seeing bailouts for 4 big polluters billionaires saw their wealth ballooned while millions of people are struggling to make meat in other words profit has been put before people and the planet are we basically in the same place fighting the same battle that we were back then. i will say that we are in the same place you know when i published this changes everything as you said in

2014. of the subtitle of that book was capitalism versus the climate and there was tremendous pushback and not just from. you know a right wing economists it was from frankly the environmental movement who would you know friends would take me aside and say you know you're you're remaking things a lot harder for us by linking climate action to this transformation of our economy you know why do we have to link climate action with fighting racial injustice or fighting for gender equality you know your i heard this so much you're making it harder so here we are 7 years later and the discourse of the climate justice movement is really being echoed at the highest levels of government and i want to stress discourse because there is a difference between what politicians say and what politicians do but i think it is really significant that when you look at what the by the administration is proposing we are seeing

a mobilization of resources the likes of which i've never seen in my lifetime through a stimulus bill on the scale of around 3 trillion dollars with a great deal of it going to so-called you know green projects unfortunately it's not just the discourse that has changed in those 7 years the planet has changed in those 7 years it's gotten a lot hotter so what we need to do is a lot more and so it may seem hard to accept but the 3 trillion isn't enough we need basically 3 times that amount if we were going to address this crisis but i wouldn't say that things are exactly as they were 7 years ago when i published that book the plan it's gotten harder movements have gotten larger and have pushed centrist politicians like joe biden to do some things that would have been unimaginable just a couple of years ago and to sherman i mean your work in many ways speaks to the. that as a city council member in seattle you have been leading the charge and getting many

progressive wins whether we're talking about fighting for a $15.00 minimum wage whether we're talking about taxing the wealthy whether we're talking about introducing a resolution in support of global climate strike things are happening can you talk a little bit about some of the tactics and strategies you used to make that happen and how that could be instructive to people who are in the kind of movement i think . emergence of mass movements as we saw a recently with the black clothes not a street protest with broad 26000000 people out on american streets in multiracial working class solidarity against racism in a movement like that the fact that there have been climate strike actions which you have been leading have really brought pressure to bear on big business dominated politics and at the same time we see this chasm between the rhetoric that politicians are under pressure from movements forced to utter and the actions that they're willing to undertake i mean seattle is

a good example of the kind of tactics and strategy we need because it is not a republican stronghold in any way we have 8 progressive democrats and one socialist myself and yet we have seen that the overwhelming number of victories that be a one which is taking on big business and winning despite their opposition like the $15.00 minimum wage like the amazon tax to fund an expansion of social housing and green new deal projects and renters right you know overwhelming numbers of these big trees have been won also despite the opposition of the progressive democrats i mean what we have done to win these victories is rather than me relying on trying to get agreement from progressive democrats are big business you know lobbyist what i've done instead what we've done through our office is go outward and build movements the $15.00 minimum wage for example was one because we use. our socialist council office to build the 50 now grassroots movement which was independent of the

democratic party establishment and we launched you know mass action conferences street action street protests and that is how we were able to win similar with the amazon tax that's the kind of pressure we will need in congress as well i mean the battle you're talking about particular taxing these big businesses like amazon it didn't come without a consequence and a price on amazon dumped big money into trying to defeat people like you're going to put $1500000.00 into local city council races to see you defeated of course you won help us understand how you're able to go back in such powerful entities and be victorious. you're absolutely right mark i mean did they really try to do a corporate takeover in 2019 and millions of dollars were spent unprecedented amount i mean this is that he counted race and amazon as you mentioned threw down a $1000000.00 money bomb in the last 2 weeks of the race in october of 2019 and we were able to win despite that because precisely because and this is where you know

the conventional wisdom of the democratic party completely sort of betrays the interest of working people if you know you're told not to rock the boat as naomi was mentioning earlier don't mention capitalism in relation to the climate crisis in fact you have to do the exact opposite to mobilize people and to organize ordinary people into tapping into their late and power you know individually working people have no power but if we can get organized into independent movements that are clear that the politicians of the 2 parties are not on our side that big business is not on our side that you cannot negotiate your way into a better society you have to have a political fight back a political clash against big business so this is this goes against the ordinary wisdom of new not rocking the boat and you have to do the exact opposite yeah i just echoing what chad was just saying there you know we talk about climate justice which which is the governing principle of all of this we often think about well we

need that climate justice means that the communities that have gotten the worst d.-o. under the current extractive economies which are overwhelmingly black and brown communities need to get green jobs lead to get green infrastructure in their communities and that is part of climate justice but it has it's only happened that the other half is the people who did the most to create the crisis have to help pay for it have to pay more for it we often don't talk enough about that side of it but the truth is people are furious at the kind of corp. profiteering that has gone on during this pandemic people are enraged when they hear that the billionaire class has increased their wealth during this time a so much pain and loss and it's interesting that when you look at biden's stimulus plan that the biggest push back from centrist democrats is not coming from the price tag or the plans to invest in infrastructure where we're seeing the pushback

is the idea that there should be marginal corporate tax increases to help pay for it and this is really significant because there's someone saying these are popular policy this is the way you you sell to the public that this is a just policy and so if it's just financed through deficit spending my concern is that a few years down the road this turns into an excuse for brutal economic austerity in the last we increase corporate taxes in unless we say the polluters have to pay for this then a few years down the road this is or you know or even just a couple years down the road this is going to play out in the forms of massive cuts to health care to education to so many policies that help working people i have a question for both of you in line with exactly that you know you know leading global climate economists are saying the climate change will exacerbate income inequality between rich and poor nations how should some of the poorest nations in

the earlier stages of development navigate the crisis and should countries that have contributed most to climate change have to bear the burden of reducing their c o 2 emissions in a more ambitious way thinking about what you just said you know me about it working on both ends right people who have done the most harm have to also have been the most burden how do we think through that m.s.r. with you into interdiction well look at you know what that principle all right what is climate justice it is that the people who are most impacted who did the least to create the crisis need to be 1st in line to benefit and the united states is the world's largest historical emitter. the uniting of the united states put more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere than any other country it has been polluting on an industrial scale for several 100 years and so what that means is that countries like the u.s. and the u.k. and other is so-called advanced industrial countries need to pay into funds that will go to the global south so that countries can leapfrog over fossil fuels go

directly to green energy and all of this is in shrine and in they u.n. climate treaties that the u.s. has already signed the un climate convention says that countries have common but differentiated responsibility so that means that every country has to be part of the solution but there are differentiated responsibilities based on which countries have been able to develop precisely because they have extracted so much wealth from poor countries and that's how they got rich right and so the u.s. has been pledging to pay into these crime it a u.n. climate funds for years and has reneged on its commitments so yeah we can't think about climate justice just within national context there is no real nationalist response to the climate crisis as happened to be international it's just like the response to cope it needs to be well you know i think no and we made a very important point that there is no will there's no solution to the climate

catastrophe that is telling us in the face on a nationalist basis on a nation state basis this will have to be an international response and that i think points towards a genuine working class solidarity understanding for example that 100 corporations you know global corporations are responsible for 70 percent of the emissions since 1900 so in other words because we're a sions conglomerates billionaire class they are responsible for this crisis as mentioning and recognizing that these are global corporations so in other words the capitalist class in my home country india is every bit as. extractive an exploitative as the capitalist class in the united states and the working class in the us across the racial divisions as an incentive to build a united fight back here within our country and to build international solidarity with working people outside the us you know because ultimately there is no hope of defeating and really addressing climate change unless we recognize that this is

a battle against capitalism itself i mean just to look at the statistic that the guardian newspaper recently just weeks ago showed that the world's biggest 60 banks have provided nearly 4 trillion dollars of financing for fossil fuel companies since the prime powder's accord in 2015 this is absolutely shocking and so we have to start with the question of taxing big business and but not just here you know internationally but i would also say you know if we had to go beyond that and really advocate for what i would call a socialist green new deal which in addition to these measures of taxing big business and expansion of green infrastructure we'll also talk about bringing private utilities transportation major fossil fuel companies also key parts of the just takes like amazon into democratic public ownership of workers and immediately retool these corporations for renewable energy sources and ultimately we need a planned economy and we don't have much time to do it so we cannot waste time

hoping that someday the capitalist class will realize this is in the interest of humanity they know it is the nader's manatee but they have no incentive and i would just also point out that you know the take the dog the brilliant documentary that naomi klein and lewis had made in 2004 that you know that was an example of workers taking into community ownership democratic ownership a corporation and how efficiently that it did they ran it more efficiently i think that's a very key example but we need that on a much larger. scan it but them are just scale that you're talking about requires a real radical vision for everything you've talked about you've articulated a radical vision and in a real shift in how we would function both domestically and internationally the challenge and i put this to you naomi of these kinds of radical visions is that they're constantly compromised by the moneyed interests of corporate donors we have

the n.g.o.s zation the professionalization of the climate movement you've talked about this you said the big green groups are worse than climate deniers in many ways but how do we manage to not just develop but in force a radical vision and a radical politics against the backdrop of all of this corporatization professionalization well you know i think we've been discussing we build movements right not not n.g.o.s. you know which isn't to say that there are good n.g.o.s out there that partner with with men south but but but you know n.g.o.s are not going to get us out of this it's going to be movement power it's going to be the kind of mass mobilization to start i was talking about india think about the the indian farmers movement that rose up against. mr modi the other uniform as you and yet you know that you rushed through under cover of pandemic which many farmers described as a death warrant which will lead to war consolidation of land in the hands of

a few quick red players you know so small farmers are a climate solution responsible agricole article farming methods sequester carbon where as these big corporate for you know farming to agricultural giants use huge fossil fuel inputs for their business models right and i think was really striking that the youth climate movement rally around the farmers and said you know that they're on the front lines of climate disruption they are climate solution we are going to stand with them and faced you know a. norma's repression from the modi government including arresting and imprisoning young climate activists but there was international solidarity from the youth climate strikers and it's that that's the kind of thing we need to see from a grassroots climate movement it can't just be young people who are doing with it can't just be teenagers it has to be everybody. so yeah i mean absolutely these solutions and these responses are radical in the best sense you know i always say

that the future is radical so it's not a question of whether or not we like radical change or not we are going to experience radical change and we are already in the grips of it the question is whether we are going to try to manage it try to plan it so that we have things like energy democracy. was talking about worker ownership we can have energy democracy if you know as we transition from fossil fuels we need to be bold in this moment and in the face of all of that corporatization market you're talking about and just be fearless in proposing the solutions that will be radical in the best sense of actually getting at the root of what is driving all of these crises because it isn't just the emissions in the atmosphere it's the logics that put profits before people at every level one of the real solutions that many and the climate movement of offered in their estimation is the green new deal what's the 1st step to getting there especially in a moment where we have

a kind of centrist democratic presidency that for many years masquerading as a progressive one. you know i'm not sure i agree with exactly how you characterized it because if you look at how biden ran in the primaries versus how he is governing it's not to say he was and listen i'm not making excuses for him i was a bernie sanders surrogate you know biden was not my 2nd choice my 3rd choice is you know i mean but i also think it's important to give movements credit where credit is due biden has already been pushed to some where he had no desire to go but the very idea that he would be introducing a stimulus plan. that is going to mobilize around 2 trillion dollars for climate investment is not something that we should say oh well he's just you know not interested in the green new deal he has adopted the framing of the climate justice movement because because the movement has been growing its power in the way that it has. and he's introduced some policies that come directly from the movement it's

not enough we need to keep pushing but the fact that he has done this i think is evidence that they he can be pushed some estimate that the u.s. military is the world's largest consumer of oil and as a result one of the world's top greenhouse gas emitters but many modern wars have largely been predicated on protecting access to fossil fuel resources abroad the u.s. military has $800.00 bases around the world and it's no surprise that a lot of them surround oil and natural gas reserves what is the relationship between militarism and climate change and do we need to essentially rethink or completely defund militarism in order to get to a just moment of climate activism. i think as you said correctly mark that it is not a coincidence that so many so much of the military apparatus internationally of the us regime is around the question of protecting the natural resources that these corporations like striking not to mention that they are determined to extract

every drop of oil from under the earth if we let them and so it shows how you know you it's not it's not yes it is absolutely a question of building the kind of movements that we need to build and the farmer protests are and the only correct you mention are a shining example of what is possible you know that there is but it is possible to build these kind of fighting movements that go up against some really powerful entities yes it is a question of taking funds away from the military and 2 words for duct tape and socially constructive a nondestructive causes but in order to do that it's not merely a matter of you know building movements to pressure congress to do it and it is absolutely true that the kind of infrastructure and stimulus spending that we have seen and also the announcements that we have seen from the biden administration are almost unheard of but we're going to china fundamentally they are doing this because their own system is in such

a deep and long lasting crisis they are understand that and for the most part it is an effort to show up a really you know crumbling system so you know it's not a surprise again that the international monetary fund for example which has been introduced and i drove just brutal neo liberal assault on country after country including inside the united states they are now advocating maybe we need to tax big business but it's not that they have suddenly turned you know there's i'd only realize that although their system is bad for the people and for the climate and they need to do better you know they're doing it because the. system is in such crisis the only way we could win something the light. a socialist green new deal let alone the democratic public ownership of these big corporations that we need to be that will be embedded is also in the united states for example the need to build independent political organizations because the democratic party is simply not going to be on our side but the same reason that the military is spending so much

money protecting fossil fuels internationally we need ahead on political clash with the political establishment naomi a lot of people don't grasp how huge the climate crisis contributes to massive migration just in the past 6 months according to the international red cross over 80 percent of global displacements have been caused by disasters most of which are triggered by climate and weather extremes 1 is this issue prominent anough within the debate given the numbers. i don't think it is prominent enough especially because so many. people who who are forced to migrate from central america coming to the united states many of them have been linked to climate change fueled disasters very a natural disasters it's never one driver i mean this is what i think is important to understand the reasons why people choose to move are complex it's rarely one factor and climate change is

a stress multiplier right so you know if you are wealthy and you have various shock absorbers and cushions then when and when a hurricane hits your community you have home insurance maybe you have another home to go to you know when i wrote the shock doctrine there was actually a private airline called help jet that was offering to turn people's hurricanes disasters into a luxury vacation and we sort of caught a glimpse of this member when ted cruz and his neighbors left texas which was in the grips of a crisis that many scientists have linked to climate change and decided to check into the ritz carlton in kent coon right so this is just to say that climate shocks don't impact the rich and the poor in the same way if you were living very very close to the edge then a climate shock can be the last straw so i think that that's really important to understand and yeah i think we need to talk about it more more. because there is

such a discourse of deserving and undeserving migrants in the idea of like ok if you're a political refugee that's a deserving migrant but if you're an economic orac or a climate refugee then that is you know that that's under way i think we just need to get rid of this whole discourse entirely because people have a right to move they also have a right to stay so i think that this ties in with what we were talking a. earlier in terms of what a country like the united states over to the global south you know we need to be mobilizing hundreds of billions in resources so that so that you know communities are able to recover from climate change people disaster but if people have no choice but to loot ringback or choose to move then frankly they need to be welcomed and it isn't out of noblesse so believes it is an out of. you know some wonderful beneficence that we're doing with you know the united states built the world that

is forcing so much migration and so many ways thank you both for joining me know me climb on this one thank you so much for joining that up front. thank you for having that you so much. that's our show up front we'll be back next week. planet earth a wondrous diverse ecosystem but human activity is that escalating climate change and posing an existential threat you don't get a research but. that's really scary in the lead up to us to al-jazeera gronk special coverage documentaries discussion vanderpool exploring the consequences of our actions and inactions it's very hard to use a bar in all civilisation culture and showcasing ways in which some are seeking to

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nation must tackle the dirty legacy of a profitable fossil fuel industry to its end being an active emissions source people in power finland's plummets warriors on a just. another record a single day surge in corona virus infections in india its capital will be under curfew for a week. or about us and this is all to 0 live from doha also coming up. must receive medical aid says the news top diplomat warning russia is responsible for the health of the jailed opposition leader. and political power.