and that's money the fans should be being spent on players they've ignored fans they can process going back to the store with the club and they don't they very rarely attain matches they stay in america and they're happy to take the profits are unfortunately the way that english football is structured means to them personally talked to do that the fans have made their feelings clear but it's unlikely united's owners are listening too closely for a smile al jazeera. this is al jazeera and these are the headlines india has reported will need 300000 new coronavirus infections for 12 straight day the official death toll is now around 219000 but experts say the truth is likely much higher a small incident plan says up and running inside a covert $1000.00 treatment center in new delhi it can support up to 20 patients at

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tension between tajikistan and on a scale not seen in years fighting broke out over a disputed border area although it truce was agreed it's not stalled. because of what it into old wives' conflict places inside story. hello welcome to the program. kyrgyzstan stan have been in

a dispute over land and water resources for more than 3 decades but vats recently escalated into the have is fighting in years and raised fears of a wider conflict against 40 people were killed in the cross border shelling and thousands evacuated the fighting broke out on wednesday near water facility in an area claimed by both nations villagers from opposing sides threw rocks at each other and border guards then fired guns and mortar the 2 sides now say they have breached what they call a complete cease fire that's also an initial truce broke down the hands of the country's state security bodies announced the agreement in a joint briefing on saturday. of course when we discussed this we reached principle agreements to solve the issues in the interests of security peace and stability in both kurdistan and to christiane i think we can achieve that. does book.

i hope there will be full silence the peace the calamity in our countries in particular in the territories on the border we very much hope that the reach decisions which will rot in the protocol will be executed the latest fighting began after a fishel set up cameras to monitor water supply facility near the village of caulked ash both nations have claimed areas mainly after they gained independence from the soviet union when it collapsed in 1901 a large part of the border remains are marked fuelling disputes over water land and pastures. delegations have held several rounds of talks but failed to and there are disputes kyrgyzstan and both members of the russian dominated collective security treaty organization and they both host russian military bases moscow has

offered to mediate urging both sides to negotiate a lasting settlement. char's transferred reports from in kyrgyzstan the kurdish ministry of internal affairs has announced that 25 bodies have been found in the town of goal of their reporting that these people were killed in a mortar attack by the tragic military on april the 29th they've also released into the fish sticks on the kind of structural damage damage to homes. during these attacks they're saying that 70 to 78 houses have been burned to schools 3 border posts and 10 petrol stations now the press office for the president saw the ridge of power off they're saying that the situation is in their words relatively stable in that area we're hearing reports that the military have withdrawn back across the border we know that there's been a large mobilization of the kirghiz army to that area as you would expect and

interestingly some news coming out from the base can local authorities along those borders they're saying that 58000 people were evacuated from the area 52000 of whom they're reporting as being women and children so another indication of just how severe how serious these clashes have been chance strafford the inside story in oshkosh in southern kyrgyzstan. let's bring in our guests in prague we have bruce pioneer journalist and correspondent at radio free europe specializing in central asia in moscow victor of the political analyst and lead expert at center for actual politics in london. in security and development in the department of war studies at the king's college london welcome to the program bruce are we talking here about an isolated incident

or something that could potentially become a wider military confrontation. well you could call this an isolated incident you know lost it teen years anyway they've been having problems on the order that used to used to just end with some ads or handlers a car or something like that. so it's been going on for a while but this was much much more serious i mean usually in the states things were you know isolated is your term i mean they were confined to one small area this time all the sudden we saw the tajik forces attack a long long stretch of the border with kyrgyzstan in several different places the problem started in one area but then it quickly spread you know many many kilometers on the borders is the 1st time that we've seen pockets of the fighting break out so quickly and such a long distance along the border so it's much more serious than whether this means or your military but you know i don't know they're all back and usually there is

a period of arm up at this and we're up to see it like a search far more serious than it's ever been before victor the russians have offered to mediate the asking of both parties to set aside their differences and seek a permanent solution to this particular program do you see an opening for such such as permanent settlements here. well the simpler than to know that the current borders of the central asian republics were drawn in the in 1920 s. and 1930 s. when they were part of the same country of the soviet union and so the potential economic political ethnic and other conflicts at that time were not as important since they were within the same country and those are the main streets of borders did not play as important a role of course when the soviet union collapsed in 1901 these border is that

didn't always reflect the economic ethnic and other interests of the neighboring central asian republics the came to the fore and played a much more important role so we have seen these border conflicts including quiz kyrgyzstan for a number of years several years ago there was an internal conflagration in kyrgyzstan involving it was beckoning or it you as far as the russian position on this both to take a stand on kyrgyzstan as your correspondent noted several minutes ago members of the collective security teacher can use asian that was founded by by russia by moscow and of course moscow is interested in this internal in this disagreement between 2 members of the organization being resolved as soon as

possible and of course moscow is willing to provide its diplomatic and other. resources to help resolve this matter all right but that being said. a let me let me go to because now we're talking about as you said something that goes back to the demarkation of the border during the boot of joseph starling with complete the. sprigg god for the demographic and tribal considerations now you're asking people to come together and rethink in new jersey graphic map is that possible from the perspective of both the just and the kurgan is i think we're not asking them to redraw the borders i think part of the problem is exactly there was a there were seen at risk that there would be a redrawing of the border because the kid is head of the security national security committee and was talking in march about every drawing board does around the village of of what or who and that created an out of concern are among their

tactics and he was suggesting that they would get another piece of land in compensation so i think that the one of the most dangerous aspects would be to sort of repro the borders what i think what is important is to actually demo kate the borders i think the solution would lie and trying to finally decide you know how the borders are to be deal in the united in that area the problem that you know that we have all these and place and many areas where villages of kyrgyzstan tactics are almost sitting side by side and there is only you know that these roads connecting the stand sort of mainland where these enclaves and and that creates an lot of instability in are and besides the whole question of water resources as we know in this case there was also the question are around that kind of noisy water.

intake facility so all these questions need to be finally settled in some way and i think the fact that yes because the thing is here is that we have the demarkation. agreement over. there that was established in 1920 and this is going to be my question for bruce however the tooken to seem to have 2 different jip political maps of the own the tajiks are saying let's go back 212924 the koga so we have our own model of the 195859 therefore would like to see some concessions before we can move forward. you know that's one of the problems is they're looking at different maps and you know this is one of the 1st things they are where they can make any progress on embarkation of it to try to figure out which maps are going to use or if they're going to compromise somehow or another you know i mean as my colleagues approach we've stated our the problem is that the new government and security service 'd the new government i'm curious as really been pressing this you know

that they're going to finish these border demarcations i just would touch it a stamp with this focus and also i think it made a lot of people nervous that they might lose something because this was seemed to be going to come so quickly are. you know and so this is this is going to be the problem what you know what land belongs to me and what by our own boss or the other such there's a lot of things here you know generations are meaner attending that same town at the same parts of land or are there cemeteries in the area that mean a lot of local people you know so it's real difficult to come to some kind of compromise and i know from being down there are 2 that at all 2 up on the decisions that riyadh and the capitals don't really reflect the local sentiment i mean the people they are or sometimes that a lot of times they don't they are in some important them are taken into consideration when you start talking about agreements over the section of the border vic so we're talking about a delicate task ahead for all the parties because we're talking about 471

kilometers which are still disputed art of $171.00 this is a tinder box that could blow up any time. well sure we have to take into consideration their geographic and demographic. facts statistics. kyrgyzstan is smallest o. of center lesion republics it has a much weaker military and smaller military than neighboring. and those biggest on the tajik is a much more proficient and. resourceful since it took part in the protracted the civil war interjected stun in the 1990 s. the army is much more numerous it's very it will be very difficult for the caregiver's government to change borders in the way that would be beneficial to

kyrgyzstan appropriate england is. belonging to its neighboring to its neighbors of course the head of the national security committee does she have who has been mentioned here several times has made a number of nationalistic way nationalistic statements both they guarding. the border with as big a stand and these statements have also alarmed caregivers ears gigatons neighbors to the south into down and when. when some when the when members of the caregivers government announced that they had plans for construction of a new reserve war in the river that also supplies. and that they were not about to go into negotiations about this the construction of the season of war of course that the objects. became quite concerned about that and they decided to take this

action it's also interesting to note that this conflict took place. yes exactly at the time when the heads of the national security council's or far of the member states of the collective security breach here were meeting in the capital after she kissed on the induction bear and discussing the fire at the potential threat from afghanistan where americans are of course planning to withdraw and there is a but perhaps from the taliban being a constructive there and as there is the chairman of the kyrgyzstan national security council was discussing that in bear that tragic forces there took this action right so so this conflict is definitely we're talking about something that could further degenerate and this is why i'm going out to them a tele this is a problem you have a border area which is disputed between both countries that we're talking basically

about areas which were used for grazing and access to water for centuries and centuries of telling people it's about time to rethink the way we used to have access to those particular. areas from a technical perspective with seen that it's almost impossible globally to draw lines to draw demarkation is in different conflicts in the world we might be left with one particular option which is bring all the countries to talk about sharing the management of the resources there. definitely as far as water resources in central asia is concerned you know it's very important to reach an agreement don't want to share in the problem is you know who is who is benefiting most from these arrangements and if we look at the mechanisms and generally that was a time around sort of add more to that yes you did already have a since they tended to benefit this or downstream countries now in this case kidney stone and educates to an apples upstream countries and that also creates problems

because they are trying you know that the tactics are trying to build a dam as was mentioned the curious one to build additional reservoirs so certainly there is there's been in the last 30 years a lot of efforts to find mechanisms of joint management and so that is an issue that can be achieved because it has been achieved in many other parts of the world where rivers are being shared and then there is a question of the demarkation of the borders which we discussed and i think that it is not impossible but it sometimes requires compromise and i make meant to the agreements reached which is often part of the problem is that you then you know does she have was sort of also renouncing some of the agreements that have been signed with. regarding the border so often the problem is sort of the commitment to agreements reached and the fact that the borders have been drawn in such a way that they have very complex they're not sort of near and they brought they bring of a cutting through sometimes areas of ethnic character so certainly there is

a problem but i don't think it is not possible to resolve it if it requires 100 of political requires not sort of resorting to sort of nationalist rhetoric i think bruce both countries have been talking for years about the need to solve this particular problem but in practical terms both countries have introduced a lens caus basically a reform of the a cultural lens in the disputed area which could result in handing over parts of those lands into the private sector this seems to be completely in denial about the fact that there needs to be a problem to solve before you move into any reform. yeah well you know this is true you know the sad part about this is as this conflict as escalated over the years you know a lot of money could have gone toward developing this areas is it a point or ordered by borders and you know bringing more security forces into the

regions it is one of the problems and i'm not sure that there is a good solution to any of this especially now it's going to be built up you know there's there's also the feeling you know what iraq was mentioned which last a touch of a stand but you have to go through a curious turn to get there and you have. you know you have to drive right right through the arctic europeans territory and all the sudden you're at this place and they've been spending years you know developing their culture there and it was mentioned as a possibility 1st lancelot whose name keeps coming up here so we would trade this for something else you know but but again this is the kind of problem that they run into and they one officials start to talk about what could resolve the issue and all the sudden the locals hear about this and it's a total surprise to them you know and so there was instantly pushback from the from the residents of what rupert is what they're all targets of course. you know in the government the tajik. apparent rare move of the president actually going and

visiting this 'd design you know just a couple weeks ago he'd only been there twice in 25 years and then all the sudden it's going to start of april to to make the point that we've never discussed trade in this and we never will you know see you see there instead of like needing to compromise it actually so little basilica that well the governor hears vic's when you have populism on the rise of the 2 leaders there's a part of and it will run on rejecting compromise expressing views which are critical of the other party you get a sense that is going to be a long way before there is a practical realisation that it's about time to solve this particular border dispute. well it would be it will be very difficult to find a permanent solution to this a new time soon for they isn't as you stated and for some others 1st the walls are part of is the relatively new president in kyrgyzstan he is using

he and the sri of and some other members of the killed his government are using nationalistic language rhetoric to gain to garner more support and that it would be very difficult for them to make any concessions without without that the king the political responsibility for those concessions which they're not ready to do at this point at the same time interjected stan the president there my leader one is. getting very educated been getting ready for some time now to buy simply pass. power down to here's son and it will be very difficult for him to make concessions to the caregiver side of this but the one other user would be that stan at this moment and also in other uses that as i mentioned before that stan has a might show more powerful military ok then kyrgyzstan there would be they do not

feel i need to worry isn't giving you think up to to the caregivers ok so how well are in this situation it would be very difficult for there to i see your point but then we're talking about vague borderlines that continue to stoke and rust and it brings back the memories of 2004 by 81114 and 15 when classes erupted about the same problem so unless there is a solution we are likely to see further classes and possibly a war between the 2 countries. i'm not so sure we would see a war i think for the for the factors that were mentioned by the previous speaker i don't think i mean we're going to expect to have a full out war and i think neighboring countries especially russia would try to do anything to to stop this kind of massive confrontation but i think we can expect these kind of clashes in the future and i think it's very sad because i was reading

some of the reports how people you know for many years have been living very peacefully but the area has become increasingly sort of militarized there is increasing suspicion there is a populist rhetoric so i think that probably sort of you know there are tight resources there is an increase in demography no relation so i think that ok thanks can be done if we move away from sort of the purely so don't need to to just. sort of find solutions that are mutually exclusive we might find mechanisms of joint you know use of of useful resource safe from war to from land try to find ways to develop the area and to make it profitable for everyone but i think if i'm i say one of the biggest concerns i think is what was mentioned the fact that you know we have the american withdrawal from afghanistan and that is going to create

a kind of again stability of a very different nature then this is something that really need to monitor and think about and look at that is to be a much more serious challenge in my view bruce brief if you don't mind you help water scarcity you have cycles of drought which could potentially become major threats not facing all of both countries but the globe. couldn't this be a starting point for both countries to think about alternatives which is basically saying that let's think about how we can manage those resources against the backdrop of this gone the situation without being bogged down in a problem about lines to be drawn well certainly they're going to have to have a big say in this and i agree that you know there are lot more investment needs to be put into this area so there can be a level of comfort that things are moving forward and they are going to be love or and that's the tutor's up and because some land deal that's may be you know going to need of these countries have

a lot of money to put food in toward so it's going to be a real question of resources financial resources. and of equipment and materials that are again need to go and it is but but it's something you're right that there's going to confront all the communities on this border and in the next few years and if they're ever going to get any kind of order agreement to mark asian reached in this area it really hurts the starwars with development of that area 1st so that people 'd have the feeling that their future 'd is protected no matter what side where the line is actually along the border and how far they can go before they're in another country bruce pioneers victor on of it still may tell us i agree most so thank you very much indeed for your insight and thank you too for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our web site c.n.n. dot com for further discussion go to our facebook page that's facebook dot com for west last a.j. it's a story you can also join the conversation on twitter our handle is a jane say saudi. from me. and the entire team here in doha by phone.

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