program will mean they'll be no more locked downs. now, the french government is taking a gamble. 13000 people a day is still testing positive cove at 19 compatible with the u. k. in a similar population. and that 2 and a half 1000 people de testing positive and the u. k. i only started reopening a few weeks ago. bernard smith, al jazeera parish ah . top stories and i was 0 is ready. fighter jets and tanks are continuing to pound the gaza strip. 10 days into the fighting. these 227 passed in, including 64 children had been killed. us president joe biden has told israel's prime minister. he expects significant de escalation on wednesday, but benjamin netanyahu has refused to set a time frame to end the hostilities about from the board. because we are,

with every passing day, we are striking at more of the terrorist organizations capabilities targeting more senior command is toppling more terrorist buildings and hitting more weapons stockpiles. just as i told the ambassadors here today, this is the natural rise of israel. i very much appreciate the support of these governments, and i especially appreciate the support of a friend us president biden, for the state of israel bride to self defense. i'm determined to continue this operation until its objective is achieved to restore quiet and security to you. citizens of israel and several israeli cities have also come under fire from her last rocket. some of them landed in ash stood and stared, causing damage. most were intercepted by israel's on missile defense system. 12 people in israel had been killed including 2 children since the conflict began last week. addition to the rockets coming out of garza, several rockets have been fired from southern lebanon towards israel. to rockets reportedly landed in curious hum,

north of the city of high for these really minute she says intercepted and other 2 . nobody came responsibility for the rockets. israel has 5 artillery in response. iran maybe one step closer to a new deal with world power over its nuclear program. talks meant to revive the stalled 2015 nuclear agreement have been taking place in vienna. the deal fell apart when former us president donald trump was in office. india is daily death toll from the current of ours has risen to another record high or the 4 and a half 1000 were recorded over the last 24 hours. the number of new cases has fallen in recent days after reaching daily highs of all 400002 weeks ago. in the 2nd wave is seen hospitals in major cities running out of oxygen. that's what i had . i was do stay with us out there or the stream is coming up next. i'll be back with more news after that. thanks. searching me. ah,

ah ah, ah. hi anthony. okay. today on the stream were talking about a social media streaming app called top house. that is growing in popularity and has a lot of bounce around this week because it is rolling out on android phones around the world. pump house describes itself as a space for casual dropping conversations. but is it, is it a safe space for those conversations to happen here from a spokesperson for the iran guardian council? it is what he has to say. the whole song or the,

the most very entirely new club house has made to be a bit more direct. in my opinion, there is no issue with the essence of these apps. and if they are used correctly, they would work for the growth and awareness of the people and the youth. the father, i definitely did a double take when i heard that comment, teeth on pat car path is pros and cons and challenges. we have to go. melissa. great. have you, okay on the stream it go welcome back to the stream, remind our audience. see you all. what you day? and nigger more tug the journalist on political commentator based in washington. and i also host the pipes, count lovely to see you. hello melissa. welcome back to the stream. describe yourself to i guess who may not have seen you before. hi melissa. can i'm a journalist based in berlin. i work on a lot of different kinds of stories, but among one of them, i look at the strand of looking at china beyond it's border. nice to have you. hello. welcome to the st. hello to see you all what it is. hi,

i'm marco and jones. i'm an assistant professor of middle east studies and i research social media disinformation and harassment. and i'm particularly interested in the negative potential of technology. thank surveying, hey, guess really nice to see and audience. if you're online on youtube right now, you can be part of this conversation as well. have you experience comp house, have your friends experience up house? tell us what it's been like. is it a place where you can speak freely, all you consent? jump into a comment section and be part of today's show. now you're not supposed to record any thinking power unless you tell people bhatnagar have sent us some screen grabs . so i'm going to show you some of these screen grabs and that kind of impressive nichol. when you tell her, if we have perceived there are going to kick for a couple of them. what, what are we seeing here, for instance, with this sharp. so what we've seen on the clubhouse aside from a lot of the conversations that are by regular citizens and also some i see this

and journalist we're seeing opposition figures in the country as well as government officials holding long. * conversations with a range of different users on various topics. in this one we're seeing there on in foreign minister there on in foreign ministry. spokes person dropping into a room with 8000 people, taking questions from some journalists, some regular citizens. and this one that we're looking at right now, this is the daughter of the former president of iran flies hush. ne, who's right now considered an opposition. she dropped on the club house into her room for about 6 hours. being very critical of the current government of the supreme leader, which being critical of is the red line and iranian politics. and just being very frank and taking some tough and challenging questions from the audience. so it's definitely a new opening for political discourse in iran. melissa,

i remember when you were 1st tweeting about what was going on in some of these rooms and up how so you, you can start a room, you can moderate a room. this is what you don't actually see the people when they got there. that little faces on the icons and i thought i was, i was in the rooms review. i have a lot of fills you poster in february, the 5th listening to mainland chinese in china, or the overseas home commerce taiwanese exchange ideas on top house. but one of them is the pan give it the communist party has done this to us. melissa. yeah, it's really interesting to hear the description of club house and how people in iran are engaging. because i see such parallels. there is this intensity and of people log on for hours at a time, especially in february and march when there was a lot of access or at least easier access then the situation now because eventually as, as a lot of, you know, china just made it all the more difficult to access the app,

but there was that moment when you had all these chinese speakers from within china, in hong kong, those in taiwan. sort of engaging with each other in a way that i think audio really lends itself to the intimate where you do feel like during a room. you know, it is it, it is not private public very much though. and of course, people still act differently as it be, walked into somebody's living room and i think that's us. dillard hated a lot of the really intense conversations that you hear among chinese speakers. of course, in iran, in parts of the middle east as well. mark i had yeah, i mean, i totally agree with the intimacy thing. i think there's something very unique and novel about the audio aspect of clubhouse. i would agree, i think, what would you go and melissa both expresses this general enthusiasm that we've seen. greet the advent of clubhouse in the region, and i don't think this is anything new. what we see every time there's

a new technology at that comes up whether it's twitter, facebook clubhouse, is this kind of quick uptake. there's a lot of bugs around and people want to be, you know, taking and trying this new technology. there's a bit of fomo for those who don't take it up. and i think this can accelerate to that kind of use engagement and that immediacy with which people use it. but i think that's part of the problem and people need to be cautious. i think there's a honeymoon period with any new technology and the honeymoon period is that enthusiasm and it's very easy for people to let that god down and say things that they wouldn't ordinarily say. and authoritarian regimes, which obviously dominant in, in the middle east and obviously in china. this can be usually problematic. and we've already seen examples that i will talk about later of how returners genes are trying to co opt that space in which we see critical discussions. and create space of surveillance as they have done with other social media platforms, like switzer and facebook. and this is particularly true in saudi arabia. when you go up, it's a always full cycle. in a rom, though, club house has been embraced in

a, in a slight a different way because it was for the 2 to mark point. once the authorities, once government officials realized what was going on in these rooms, then they were either stopped or infiltrated. but for ronnie, it seems like the conversations are still continuing and that they're being quite useful. the golf that is true. we have to also remember, this is the interesting period. and iranian politics there isn't going administration. we're about a month away from a presidential election, which will see a change of administration happens every 8 years of re to residential election. so it's a time that the state, the entire state, one kind of an excitement around this political event, more participation from that population. and that's one thing. clubhouse is helping both the government officials and the opposition in a way or other,

even if they're talking against participation in the election, even if they're talking about the limitations of the problems. the action is not being fair or fried. they're still talking about the election of a lot of the political talk on their, on the club house is about the election and that's creating an excitement that's one issue. and 2nd, as mark is saying it's the honeymoon phase. i agree with that. it's been the case with most social networks that the state is still in the figuring out save of trying to understand if this is good for them. if this is bad for the way the pros and cons and also try to understand the ways that they can limited or control it or monitored or sense or at or eventually if they can't deal with it. or if they get too much out of hand, just completely ban it. so i feel like that they're running state is still at that stage of trying to figure out. and there's also in fighting among the political factions. so we thought the foreign minister we saw the i t minister,

the pharmacy spoke to sundays, are from the moderate factions of the iranian political system that are embracing more of this dialogue with the public. as opposed to the hardliners who have most of the control on broadcast media and all these other empires, where they can have the one sided monologue with the population. and this clubhouse in a way, is also breaking that monologue. melissa, this headline here that you, you and the story that you filed for foreign policy. china ends the cop how spring . just a matter of time. i think you will tweak help in the spring even faster. it's because you want, he's going to want to hear what was the stories, what was the, can you, can you re tell one story that you heard? because you were so shocked that these conversations were happening and that will help us. i'm not why chinese this has, we are shutting this down. yeah, i mean,

you had conversations where ethnic con, chinese, that's the majority in china, in china, we're talking to weaker is the ethnic turkey, muslim minority in china. that is, is experiencing a lot of suppression, right? there are detention camps you and has estimated that a 1000000 wiggers and other ethnic minorities have been put in these camps in china . and several legislative governments have called this and labeled a genocide. so currently you are having people in china discussing genocide in china and some citizens saying, wow, i didn't realize this was happening. and that kind of intensity. i was like, whoa, this is like more than the 3rd rail, right? like this is just the kind of conversation you wouldn't have in china. so it really was a matter of time. and i think it's really important to, to point out a course that 1400000000 people in china. very few people were able to actually access the clubhouse after talking about only i phone users in february and march.

so let's put it all in context. but still it was just an incredible moment where you had engagement between groups that you just don't normally see in that way. mock, i want to play something to you and this is, it is a, it's almost a very similar story is what happened in turkey. the freedom of speech and then suddenly turkish officials, beginning to color known to what was happening. come off the back of this comment mark and tell us what else is happening around the middle east with pop house that you seen festival. in the case of turkey, social media platforms are under should be government surveillance, and people are routinely detained for their posts on facebook, twitter, instagram, etc. so in january, when students traverse the we're trying to expose the government's authoritarian interventions against university and mobilized grassroots resistance. corporate became a key tool for them, and for many weeks it functioned of

a relatively safe space where they could reach abroad audience. but as soon as the government discarded of course, it also began to monitor and police those discussion rooms and flooded the apple, its own supporters to try to dominate the conversation. people still use clubhouse, but with other social media platforms. it's no longer really a face space for free speech. now, i would, i would completely agree with those sentiments. and i think it's very interesting actually seeing and comparing the different sponsors from various governments. i would say the turkish response. it's similar to what we've seen in the middle east in places like saudi arabia and the united arab emirates. i mean oman, for example, as a different response entirely and that blocked pass from being used. it was rumored that you a blocked it from being used, but that wasn't never fully confirmed. but i think what's very interesting about this space is that in the gulf, in particular, we've come on the back of a long series of social media platforms being used in very high profile

surveillance cases. and i think despite this, there was this kind of opening that we saw, but we've seen some really bizarre things are carrying on crap. again show how different platforms are used in different ways for surveillance. one of the things that i saw early on was a saudi us base. saudi activist set up a group that was talking about racism in saudi arabia, which is obviously a big problem. and then as soon as you set up this group of people who supported the government, anonymous accounts to support the government. they took screen recordings of the club house. they highlighted who was in that room. and then they broadcast that on twitter. and although, you know, allowed to record obviously on class with the app, there's no into platform agreement that stops people recording something on the club house and then putting on twitter. and i've seen that happen several times in similar rooms were controversial issues being discussed and other things of design . remember i was participating in a panel that was discussing the human rights record of from been saw man,

the conference of saudi arabia. and what would happen is that you'd have these planted people in the room who were supporting the government, and they'd eventually get on the speak a section to ask a question. and then in several instances, they started attacking individual members, the panel. you know, and also giving a kind of very pro government very, you know, telling the line should be in a very kind of aggressive and accusatory tone. and i've seen this happen so soon this happened several times to i think one of my one final example i gave the same was my favorite, the. but that was very alarming. i went into one room where every speaker and there was about 40 or 50 speakers in that room. all had the same identical profile picture had been cell not so is like a very much a big brother is watching. you kind of live. i just, i mean i took a screenshot of my personal use and it's just bizarre seeing the same image of the countries will over and over again. so these messages which are then publicized, remind people that surveillance carrie and you have to remember the trick with surveillance is surveillance,

doesn't have to be continuous in its action. the whole point and effectiveness is surveillance, is when there is a fear of surveillance, right? so if you can convince people on a number of occasions that there is a dangerous surveillance, that can be sufficient to convince them that there's always some opportunity and chance of surveillance. and i think that's really what's happening. we're seeing in the middle east. there's something interesting if i may add about the case of iran because clubhouse i feel like it's occupying, or it's carving a space between broadcast media which is television, radio or even more traditional media and social media. what happened on iran, social media, or persian social media, twitter, facebook, where especially twitter, where it was supposed to be hosting the national dialogue, that it's become very much weaponized by various various political groups, interest groups. you see massive, massive troll armies by supported by the iranian government, by the saudi government,

israeli group. and also the us state department funds of some of these a groups. and it really years the conversation away from organic dialogue among citizens, to the point that it's become very radical lies very toxic and ordinary people. when you talk about person twitter, it's just something that people don't want to get involved and they may go on to read. but everyone talks about how to talk. the club house has broken that sentiment to some extent. one is that it's hard to have that of armies on club house, or at least they haven't figured it out. you need a working phone, you need an actual voice. you need to pretend like every were a real person. it's hard to have one person sit at a computer and 100 twitter accounts like they do on twitter, on clubhouse. and it's also voice. so even in the real people who are at each other's throat, on twitter, just because it's over a text and sometimes anonymous accounts, it seems like when they're talking to each other, when they hear the other person,

when after use their own voice, there's just an element of more civility that is, that is prevalent in the conversations, not that is changing. to some extent, i see people and salting each other, talking each other even becoming vulgar. but it's less prevalent that what we have seen on twitter, although the armies have had about a decade to mobilize on twitter. so we'll have to wait and see what happens. i guess. let me just finish matt. be bought, pay who, who makes a point that you are all talking to, which is you can't really have like your in your own country, if your own country wouldn't like you to say these things out out his mind. so when attorneys user use is reach at which is a major social media app and china, most users know that their text, their audio, their video, will be accessible by $0.10. which as parent company and by the chinese government, if necessary. now on clubhouse, because it's an american company because it's audio only. and because to access it,

a user had to have an app store location outside of the mainland china. users may have thought that their behavior on the app was more private than their behavior on which at and our research really sought to emphasize that chinese users should expect that their behavior on clubhouse is accessible to the chinese government and take precautions accordingly. yeah, that's really interesting and it really kind of aligns with what i report on which is looking at china's impact beyond it. borders. i think we tend to think of that and very rudimentary terms. you know the whole way thing with 5 g, but you see the long arm of authoritarianism, sort of reach out and impact a u. s. at right, which is what clubhouse is and includes the behavior of people who are beyond the borders of china in terms of modifying their behavior. they could be chinese

citizens working abroad. but also, you know, the fact that china did eventually then even block that access to the app for those who are international, essentially made it so that the chinese diaspora, which was having these conversations suddenly couldn't. so it was heartbreaking when, when that did happen, i believe in march and i think it really does emphasize how. 7 authoritarianism can creep into democratic societies in the most unusual, unusual way. them in a ways you don't think about mac, i'm just wondering about the safety aspect of being on comp house. as i have the apple, my things are asking you this to me and for our global community. i so makes this point, have a listen and then coming back of what you say clubhouse distinguishes. so some other social media for it's for dialogue estimate, you know, penetrate people to their stories and voices. unlike the case of trees,

for example. yet, challenges are many, especially in the control bank public. and the machines are often expecting tools such as in 20 climate and to push forward discussions favorable to their gene. some say can collect data affect human activists in clubhouse and beyond yeah, i think this very much ties in with, with the, the previous comments about privacy. what, there is no guarantee that what happens on clubhouse will stay and be trans in the room. and i'm not, i'm not talking about whether or not for how long the company, $0.10 or not $0.10 a clubhouse in this case, retain data for i'm talking about. for example, if you are an authoritarian government, it is trivial for you to, for example, have a group of people who might ordinarily be tasked with trawling. all harassing people

who are spreading propaganda on line to search for rooms and just record the content of those rooms. on the database. yeah. it's trivial. so regardless of the terms and conditions that stated and in the official agreement, you download something from apps though. you have no guarantee what's going on on the other end of this conversation. so you have to assume, especially if you're a political dissident or in a precarious position. oh, in a specific country, that there is a high likelihood that whatever you're things being recorded, that's, that's i think that's the bottom line. you can't fully present, protect yourself or your privacy if you're using clubhouse. i'm just looking here at a post on switches up that the team. so in the past 24 hours, it's full mega mo, hand in a top house, be power screen on his radio room that has been going on for 24 hours. actually longer than that cuz i popped into it just before the show. people from all of the world and a few on the ground, sometimes voice breaking office, the exhausted, disagreeing over language, but so far not interrupting each other. talking for 24 hours. i'm really

interested in your take here because this is where we always hop house to day. what is it value? now god, what do you think? while the so far and mostly looking at the case of iran and the united states, persian and english are the 2 rooms that i drop in. i think the pros, the benefit of this, you know, adding to the discussion has been a lot. people have been able to talk about topics that are considered taboo or red line, or even everyday life and lifestyle. there are groups about parenting their groups about fashion. there's i even saw an actual funeral held on club house. so people from various parts of the world dropped in there was koran recited, there was some speeches and memory real more memories of the person being told

which wouldn't have been possible if without this up to be made. so easy and convenient. so i think it's adding to that. it's also helping a small group of iranians. we still have to remember, this is an elite, a lot of them probably based outside the country. and also i phone owning iranians in the country. and now some with android, just joining what is created a platform for more of a national dialogue on these issues. it's very political when it comes to writing in conversation and also it's a very much centers around the election. and then after that, the cool, big issue because of cobra, people are still on the choir and teen election campaigns are not really happening . there are no real rallies in person. so a lot of that is also transferred into the online space. and it seems like the club house is now become the platform for that. and i feel that you help break clubhouse china, kids sharing all those strawberry stories that people were were and those moments

that were people having online. but now now the top house, china has gone, but was its value it, it was like drinking out of a fire hose in terms of emotions. and i think i echo what the nigger and mark have had said about that. and i think people aren't, i mean they do forget that it is not as private as it feels, but after you use it for a while, you do realize that yes, there is a potential that people are listening in. and i think that quite a number of chinese decided take the risk regardless of sharing their feelings. thank you so much, melissa. mark and nick are for unpacking cop out for us. present you very much. i'm sitting here on my laptop where you can find them. mark here on twitter. melissa here on twitter nichol. i have on twitter. and if i sent you an invite, have to ask me nicely off me on printer. you can also find them on camphouse as well and have these conversations. but remember, it's not as polite,

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