through the austin. ready it means the shavings between europe and asia, short by 40 except, and that it's going to be, have similar factors to panama canal and as soon as come out. so there are lots of changes which will be there when. busy if, if and when, because it's going to happen, it shoots opens up. but the most important thing that we tried to do was to can to i tried to change because i really feel, especially in the after countries in the us post. we're reading focused on working together. when comes to sustainability in the, under the after counsel umbrella, i'm actually the cooperation between us and russia, which has been a lot because they have been taking o crush husband goods. ah, this is al jazeera, these are the top stories, a cease fire between israel and hamas appears to be holding. it came into effect on

friday after 11 days of fighting was killed more than $230.00 palestinians. 12 people died in israel. human, i'll say it has more now from gaza despite these, most of their data neighborhood here have been destroyed, but the people have come back home. they're trying to gather what is lost from their life. they're trying to, to pick up what's, what's left from their remains and trying to go on with their lives. they know that the upcoming period for them is going to be extremely difficult in light of the deteriorating economy condition and that most of the people here live on a daily basis. so they don't have a regular income or a regular salary. well, news of the sea, so i was met with celebrations across the palestinian territories displays. families have started to return to their home following news of the agreement. the us president joe biden welcomed the agreement, saying, israelis and palestinians deserve to live in peace. he says,

washington will continue to support israel militarily and he pledged humanitarian aid to palestinians in garza, dozens of people who gathered in japan's capital took you to show their support for palestinians. they demonstrated near the israeli embassy, and as he saw the territory protest throughout the day and several cities around the world, local media outlets in me and ma and other news reporting, the political party of the ousted leader unanswered. she is being dissolved by the countries electoral commission commission, which was appointed by military rulers following february's cookies. the party of electrical fraud indians, corona virus, death told, is continuing to rise, but the number of new infections is falling on thursday. one of the countries local vaccine makers and plans to ramp up production and spacing a severe shortage of jobs. those are your headlines up next is the stream on use in certain minutes. i'll see that from talk to al jazeera, we can,

the army were attacking ringo, and now they're attacking everyone and me on my do you regret was like, gosh, we listen. absolutely. nigeria with a woman present, it would be great. we meet with global news makers and talk about the stories that matter on sir. ah, hi of me. ok, welcome to the screen. we had spoken many times on the show about policing in america, particularly in the context of minorities. today we're going to look at how would you, we imagine the police reimagine policing in the united states were joined by professor phillip ativa, golf. he has some solutions and also on a really want to dig deep into his work professor. so get to see when you tell everybody what it is that you do, how you do it, and your center by way of introduction. go at sure. briefly. so i'm

a professor at you. i'm in the african american studies department as well as the psychology department. i'm also the co founder and the ceo of the center for policing equity. was the nonprofit that is affiliated with you. we work with communities and with law enforcement to make policing less racist, less deadly and less present in the places where they don't need to be. i was very cautious about saying the show is about police reform because police reform is an incredibly sensitive phrase and incredibly controversial right now. how do you understand what that is? right, so the word reform usually means to take something that isn't working quite the way you want it to be and you just fix it so that it's working the way you want it to be. right. i just the thing is broken and it just needs some fixing some reform. ringback to make it work right. well, there are a lot of folks in black communities where we work in brown communities and native communities where we work, who think that policing in the united states is working exactly the way that it was

intended. and so you can't reform that, you need to tear it down and build something else up in its place. and i think in most of the communities where we work, the majority of folks want some kind of combination of the 2. they want the things that they've got to be less deadly and less racist, but they also want somebody else in its place. so when you think about policing, right, that is a punishment it's, it's a system of punishment entryway. it will create a legal system, but it often shows up predominately in the communities where people make choices within systems where all they've got are terrible options. so if we really want to keep people safe when we give them the resources so that they can keep themselves safe before law enforcement ever shows up, that's what people are saying. we would do if we had a real system of public safety. instead of doing policing, because i want to show our audience the page of your organization, we do science to promote justice data science for justice. how do you measure

justice? so this is here on my laptop. one of the reasons you came to prominence in the united states was because you said we can look at race through the lens of science . we explain to our audience how you do that because that's katie, a work. yeah, it's, it's fundamental to the work that we do and it's, it's kind of exploiting the bad ways we've defined racism in the 1st place to try and make things better. right. so if i come in to you and i say hi, i'm dr. black in sign, my job is to diagnose whether or not you and your heart races. yeah, that is not a welcome thing for me to do. right. i'm not invited to many dinners for that. nobody's opening up their homes for their cities or their police departments for it . but if i say instead, well, racism is really about a pattern of behaviors. and you don't want to engage in behaviors that are discriminatory, right? so if we measure those behaviors on the part, that's your responsibility, not just randomly. the things that happen that are bad,

that a part that you are contributing. well, then we can make it go. now we can manage the behavior, like the best way to stop someone from punching you in the face is stopping them from putting you in the face. it's not complicated. you don't have to go in and do therapy on them. we don't have to give them trainings. we regulate the behavior just like every organization that's ever been successful regulates every behavior that matters to its existence. professor we tapped into our community on the stream and gas. if been on the stream before, guess we know we're good friends with the we wanted a police sergeant to be in this conversation with us. this is amy king and she brings up the idea of implicit bias. i'm going to play this to you. i want to get your response, so at the end of the video, just go ahead and respond here. i think law enforcement agencies should tackle the issue of implicit bias when we tackle those types of topics, those things that impact and exist in all of us. i think the most

potential for success in those areas is when that work is very personal. and i think a key component of that starts with leadership, whether formal or informal and creating a culture that promotes and supports and encourages that work to be ongoing. i also think that it's important that not only law enforcement looks at this issue, but that a lot of our other systems or housing system or education system or medical system as well begin to take a look at the implicit bias that may exist or does exist in other systems yes. so it's a great comments. and so while i didn't quite hear a question, i think the question is, all right, so what about that? how, what does that like out in the, in the, in the context of the places where we were in the home. and so i heard 2 things in there. one, please don't make this an issue where racism only exists in policing. but there is

no community on earth that says, you know what, we live in perfect harmony, one with the other. our economic systems are working wonderfully. our, our jobs are fantastic. our schools are fantastic. it's just those pesky police that never happened ever in the history of humanity. so if we've got problems with public safety, with law enforcement, we're going to have problems and other portions of the criminal legal system. we have health problems, we're going to have housing problems. we're going to have economic problems, we're going to education problems. and of course, if you've got police as the casual for all of those things, as we haven't too much of the added states, then all of those problems are going to end up, right, predicting contact with law enforcement. so i'm really glad that she said that it's a really important component of it. but the other piece i heard her say was, we got to get personal with this. there's real personal transformation that needs to happen if we're going to tear tackle issues of racism. and it's tempting to make that the only thing it's tempting to say, this is a personal journey towards being

a better human. i understand the temptation. i have to say we have to push back on it. because when we make racism about only only the hearts and minds of individual races when we become overly concerned with the salvation of white people, instead of protecting the bodies and the lives of black and brown people. so implicit buyers training. sure, there is a place for them. they can raise awareness and they can be part of a broader cultural shift towards doing better in any organization. but we have to resist the temptation to, to describe the problem at if it resides only in the hearts and minds of people who've got those things contaminated. it has to be about the behaviors and we have to center black life. that's why we say black lives matter, that's why it's been such an important moment and important language for right now . if we don't, we end up doing racism with our definition of racism. let's talk about practical

ways to reimagine the place on youtube. i'm going to start with some comments on youtube for you professor, and then you can tell me what you and your organization is doing with actual police forces around the country. so tom, thank you. tom, being part of the conversation, said you have to end qualified immunity, that would stop police from shooting so many americans. the police walk around like they can do whatever they want. well, because they can, with 0 repercussions, you'll have data that tells you what about if tom's suggestion, if the police could do whatever they will, they walk around, shooting americans? what does the data tell us? right, so they don't qualify. community is it's 2 fold. one, it's that qualified community might, might be applied to a relatively small number of cases that we think about 25 percent a little bit less than 25 percent of cases involving deadly force when police shoot and kill somebody. right? so it's like private praises in that way. they're so sinister,

it's such an absurd sort of twist fairness and law in order that it's a popular target. we should get rid of it a 1000 percent. but it's not the biggest thing, and it's certainly not the only thing that we can be doing. the other piece i heard the other portion of the data is this moral element. that if there were real consequences, when you killed a black person, you would have fewer black people getting killed. and surely that could be true. we have so few folks who get charged with killing black folks in the line with law enforcement, but it's hard to say what a change would be, but even the smallest changes could be felt. i just offer one note of caution to that. that's what we call back and accountability. that's the thing that happens after someone's already dead. and i would prefer that if we're going to do that, we also have front and accountability rules, procedures, regulations that prevent the shooting from happening in the 1st place. can. let's all remember, we say justice for george lloyd and justice for brianna taylor,

but there can't be justice for people who are already dead. we can professor utility press. i'm sorry, go ahead. sorry. i'm wondering what kind of police department invites you in to help them is a reading rotten one? or is it a great one? very vote progress if we were one was our community. we want you to come in and help us. i mean, for instance, would the chicago police say we'd like to work with you? what that happen is entirely possible. what i'll say is that we go in when law enforcement advice and now increasingly we go when, when communities are asking as well and communities all over the country, large cities, small cities, progressive not as progressive. ready they're asking for this because there is no community that feels like this isn't touching them. even the smallest community is here in connecticut. but when it's police departments, i'll say it's one of 2 types. usually it's either very progressive and they want to

be on the bleeding edge of it, or they're worried, they're about to where they've just had a critical incident that's causing a major problem. and in those situations that kind of doesn't matter what the politics are, they know they're going to have to lead or get dragged out and everybody would rather leave, right. all right, so let's try that. when you've got a current in an emergency, what would you, what would you say? what would you do? what are, what has, what, give us one example that there's one i want to, i want to check if i love you talking about this, which is a number of people who are being shot because they were running away from the police. right. shop. yeah, it's not as being shot. i want to be really clear. police use of force is is guns, but it's tasers as we just saw, tragically in monroe louisiana. just yesterday we saw the video. it's just fit. we need somebody up with their hands behind the back, the can die suffocation. so it's all use of force. and i think the example you're thinking about is in las vegas police department where they were concerned that

they were using force too much. they were concerned because the community was telling them they were using force too much, and it turns out a lot of it was coming after foot, pursuits and foot pursuits are just literally where someone runs away, an officer pursues them on foot, not in a vehicle. now it doesn't end usually at least not las vegas the way it doesn't. the movie, right? where the old black cop tackles the young guys. if i'm getting too old for this stuff, it ends with the young guy who's much faster than the officer saying, i'm faster than you, but i'm not fashioned the radio. i'm about to be surrounded, please don't hurt me. but if i'm an officer, my adrenalin up, my heart rate is pumping. i know they're a bad guy because who runs from the police, but bad guys. that means even if you surrender peacefully, i'm giving you a shot to the kidneys for the price of making me run. and so it las vegas when we came back with that information, say hey, it's your focus is that seem to be a big portion of the problem. both the community and law enforcement knew right away how to manage that, which is slow it down. teach the officers account and can tell them, don't touch the person to back up arrives,

give signals that if this is not immediate danger, then you don't need to put hands on someone and they were able to reduce their use of force by 23 percent in almost immediately after doing that training, i wanna be clear trainings are usually a very weak lever for change, but in this case, it was training accompanied by a policy. right. and it was organization wide backed up by the community. that's what ultimately produced a major change. so i'm going to bring into our conversation, we're shown re, he's a governance studies fellow at the brookings institution. he's pretty cynical about how you reimagine the police. this is what he told us earlier. is policing in the united states solvable. i'm not sure if it's out last, at the end of slavery in jim crow and seem to increase the 1st black identifying president every 8 hours in the united states. if a person is killed by police and black people at $3.00 times more likely wise to be killed by police without attacking or have a weapon,

racism can be held accountable. and i think it starts with abolishing qualified immunity and also creating police department insurance policies as well as police officer malpractice insurance to hold people accountable for the police brutality they inflict on local communities. yeah so so we've, we've just talked about qualified community on the issue of insurance. it's a sticky wicket. and the reason is because you get unions that will say, well, we don't want individual officers have to carry insurance, so we'll end up managing it. and that and to be a taxpayer money going back into it. so there's not an actual individual risk with all that as a sticky wicket there. i think more straightforward ways to go at this, which is just stop asking law enforcement to do things that they shouldn't be doing last quarter century as i've been in this work law. when i said you asked us to do too much, you have to come and be a therapist. someone who's having a mental health crisis, be some abuse counselor, or someone who's got an addiction problem. a child counselor to someone who's got to tell well, for issue, right, job placement, counselor, homeless,

count school. we well do all of that. so start to all of that. and if we did, we've been not meeting the demands of activists and protesters who are se, remove law enforcement from those positions. right? there's no amount of training that's going to get it perfect. but if we stop punishing in the spaces that are very clearly under invested and we refund to the community, what we've only invested in law enforcement. i think that's the way to to start reducing this. and then we can see the reforms. again, the things that are changing the systems we've got start having a much bigger effect because there's a much smaller footprint in the 1st place. yeah. i like the idea about what you're talking about in terms of getting more funding back into the community. we talked to bruce frank, student who's he's been on i showed many ties, is also a protest life, not us protest, the organizer and he has had running with the police and difficulties with the

police. so this is what he had to say about this idea of reimagining. the police have a listen. my encounter with police has been the same as many of black people in america. but what i will say is there's no way to reform this system. you can give more training to train our racism, to train our white supremacy. the only way to go is to abolish and define the entire system. specifically the police know what it was rooted in, in a terminal. we take those resources and put them back into the communities that they were stripped out of or never had in the 1st place. yeah, this is what i hear from folks in the communities that are our worst it by police violence. it's what i hear from national leaders who have been in this space with

us for the last quarter century who've been say, you know what, this incremental stuff, that's not the place that i want to be. i'll say that before this past summer, there was there was a lot of difficulty getting anybody to listen to the idea of abolition or the funding. now we hear it as the sort of deer regret. that's exactly what you have to be say. if you're in these national spaces, but what, what, what we're hearing from that, that processor and protesters in general? why are you asking law enforcement to enforce low level traffic problems? if, if my crime is that i bought a pack of cigarettes and then i sold them to other people individually. why do you, why you mentioned using a bag and a gun to that. if my crime is that i don't have a place to live with indoors, why are you bringing a badge and got into that situation? and the fact that we've decided that we need armed responders for that is a complete sort of relinquishing of our more responsibility to the folks who are

most vulnerable. that is of a piece with the worst origin stories of why we have policing in the united states and not just here. this is not just a us problem, it's an jury and problem. it's a brazilian problem. it's an australian problem. this is an international problem, but what we've decided there are some people we don't want to see some problems we don't want to know about. and so we're just going to give them punishment instead of actually digging in and hoping to make their lives better. it's not an unreasonable or even that radical position. it's also not new to boys in 1935 writes about abolition democracy in the united states, w. b boys, a famous sociologist in the us. so this is not a new idea. it's just having a rebirth and popularity right now and we have to take it seriously. when we spoke to professor on this me, we're getting ready for the show and district attorney for north carolina. talking about i'm going to, i'm gonna let him introduce the was, i don't want to summarize them cuz we have them right here. and it's about andrew

brown junior, who was shot and killed by the police. this is how the district attorney explained what the situation was and whether there will be any repercussions for the police involved. let's have a, have a look from just this week. the law enforcement officers were duty bound to stand their ground carry through on the performance of their duties and take andrew brown into custody. they could not simply let him go. as has been suggested mister browse death. well, tragic was justified because mister brown's actions called 3 deputies with the past 10 county sheriff's office to reasonably believe it was necessary to use deadly force to protect themselves and others. now, just now, that's the response i have. if you say

a black person did the things that are not willing to look at that set that up in the 1st place, then you're not serious about keeping where people live. you're only trying to say, yeah, they deserved it because of what they did, they. busy deserved it and they have not released the full video. we're seeing pieces of it now. but if they actually released it, then maybe you could have communities both make a determination. maybe the family could say, yeah, i understand that was really tragic. but you have a family se, nope, that's a lie. you have folks not being able to see the video until well after the d i makes this determination. you're not interested in communities having say over the ways which they're kept safe. if you cannot imagine that there's a world where that black person didn't need to die, then you probably shouldn't be in charge of whether not black people get to live and die. that's the very minimum. what black folks are asking for in the united

states right now? i have seen your interaction with people online. you're very accessible. you have conversations with people. so i know you, you won't mind me putting some of these tricky thoughts from youtube to you. this is bobby, he says, how about criminal start following the rules, your instant reaction professor is what? so if bobby really feels like that is the heart of it that i guess he believes that law enforcement should be able to summarily execute anyone. they feel like is not complying with a lawful order quickly enough. that would be the definition of a state and not a democracy. i'd suggest bobby goes to 6 classes. this is the problem. we imagine that that moment, right there when people are making decisions is the only moment that matters, as opposed to the set of policies that set that into place. and then we have a discussion about whether or not that one black person deserved to die. we talk about one that shouldn't was justified, but really we're talking about did they deserve to die? it's a really, it's a necrophiliacs kind of approach to black death and i would just encourage us false

. take a look at that. say i don't agree with these actions but didn't warrant death. that's it. it weren't that did sewing loose cigarettes when i bought a packet cigarettes that weren't me being choked to death as it did for eric gardner. and if you say yes, i would just encourage you, please don't be in charge of other people's lives because that's a terrible answer. because i'm going to go back to a year ago. so may 2020. i'm going to get everybody to have a look here. this is your twitter feed. this broke me just started out the crying about 10 seconds in and couldn't stop. tolvey stories hill, this pain. we spent the last 5 days talking about george floyd, police and property damage show black humanity, c, s, or caps. you know that professor is yelling, i'm just going to show a little bit of what broke you have.

do you want to stay in years? don't be why. when you're also going to do is come up with a better way of how we doing it in a work. he angry at 46. i'm angry at 31. you angry at 16? understand what i think years like almost to the day. and i am looking at you watching you on pack what is happening with police, how you reimagine police using data using science when you are a black man in america? in 2021. how do you do that? how do you keep going? how do you maybe use your own pain? in your work? where your kid,

you touch a hot stove, your reflex says pull back and pain is a message. it's a warning, but what's happening is not supposed to be happening at its most extreme, and it's a warning of the death is close by black people live with that pain in the united states. so often it's like our clothing. sometimes of the houses that we live in literally so i don't use the pain to fuel work. i want to make sure that i don't lose that. but i don't miss out on the connection with the folks from where i'm from, from my ancestors, you know, like my mother, you know, to master's degrees. her mother right, masters, her mother college and her mother,

born into slavery in the united states. professor phillip ativa off the work continues. thank you for sharing it with us here on the stream. we appreciate you. and so watching everybody the next time, ah, me each and every one of us have responsibility to change our personal space for the better. the way we could do this experiment and then a lot of us could increase just a little bit that wouldn't be worth doing. but he had any idea that it would become a magnet who is incredibly rest. they're asking women to get 50 percent representation in the future in december, the hearing kidding. pick up the collect the segregate, to say the reason this extremely important service as it relates to the city.

we need to take america to try to bring people together trying to deal with people who left behind me. ah, i'm harry davies and kimberly, in western australia or indigenous community. the painting with sciences to create a new approach to marine conservation thing you learn, but we even that the, the one about i'm not doing reporting from review. if you're going to try is protecting by diversity defending themselves against the legal invaders. earth bride. oh no, just 0. in carson, unforgiving circumstances, children learn to pay dangerous gain. the thing is worn down by frustration and broken promises. young men living under the constant threat of

imprisonment. they took me to the chief and blindfolded me the time for them to regain control of their lives. when the boys returned prison 9 inside and out on al jazeera ah israel and had agreed to a cease fire ending 11 days of fighting that killed more than $200.00 pounds extensions and brought widespread destruction. ah, hello and welcome on pizza w, watching out 20 live from our headquarters here in bo. how also.