still a considerable amount of mourners, half of the father of a can not for that cooler. it is an unprecedented crisis over the past. 50 years until may 22nd. we have had more than 30000. this is due to kronos. it is about 40 percent of the total krona this last year in the wash, but is with water. and even now in the most of the muslim countries, it is not done. but here we do all religious procedures. one would compare here with other countries around has an accepted living. iran has bought vaccines from both china and russia, as well as working and developing its own its hope to us is over and there won't be a 5th wave. but that's of little consolation to those who have already lost loved ones. i thought bake. i'll just thereon. ah,

and take you through some of the headlines here. now. germany has acknowledged committed genocide in namibia in the early 20th century. german federal forces killed tens of thousands of indigenous had otto and now my people offer an uprising against colonial rule. i shouldn't have to deny it. we will now officially call these events what they were from today's perspective, a genocide to come in doing so. we are also acknowledging our historical responsibility in the light of germany's historical and moral responsibility. we will ask namibia and the descendants of the victims to forgiveness. when that scene is this, i'm mine, and as a gesture of recognition of the incalculable suffering that was inflicted on the victims, we want to support and may be the descendants of the victims with a substantial program amounting to 1100000000 years. and this will focus in particular on read, building and development lab,

and then tens of thousands of people are seeking shelter in the democratic republic of congo. after authorities ordered the evacuation of areas near the city of goma, it's feared and thereby volcano could erupt again after it sprung back to life. last week. the government says nearly 400000 people have been displaced in just a few days. the un refugee agency says is deeply concerned by report, hundreds of people have been taken by soldiers from camps in ethiopia, in northern te grey region, hong kong, me to take her and jimmy liars in given another prison sentence, taking part in anti paging protests of 2019 the pro democracy activists and billionaire is already serving a 14 month sentence on similar charges. 7 other leading activists for all so sentenced it's inside story. now stay without here. on our busy news.

news. news. news to us as orders an investigation entity origin zip code is 9 teams of pages dismissed it saying it shows a disrespect for science. so can america's intelligence officials succeed where health experts have so far failed? this is insight story. ah, ah, hello, welcome to the program on adrian finnegan, conspiracy theories about the origins of coven 19 have been circulating since the start of the pandemic. that killed more than 3 and

a half 1000000 people. speculation that it was caused by a laboratory accident and the chinese city of who han has now gained currency. once again, that softer president joe biden ordered us intelligence agencies to find out more. biden has urged the world health organization to launch a 2nd investigation. earlier this year, a w h o report concluded that the lab 3 theory was extremely unlikely. while acknowledging that it, scientists faced difficulties getting access to data from china will bring in august and just a moment. but 1st, a report from kathy lopez, hold on with more than 50 percent of us adults no vaccinated. president joe biden is turning his focus to the origins of covered 19th. he's given his team 90 days to investigate how and where the virus 1st emerged. perhaps most controversially, the report will look at whether the virus was leak from this tiny slab in war hon.

china needed to provide more access to the lab corporate more fully with the scientific investigators. and we don't think that they have met that standard once dismissed as a conspiracy theory. now leading scientists say the possibility of the lab leak should not be ignored. we're hearing about people who work at the institute of i ology, becoming sick with an illness. we know that this has been spreading since november . we've seen the chinese government been very reticent to allow pressed to investigate the origins of this virus. we know the wall street journal reporters have been detained by police. we know the b, b. c has been chased out of certain areas where people are looking for the origin. so i think that raises question back in march, a joint investigation by china and the world health organization concluded the probable source of the virus with animal to human transmission from a work market. an accidental lamp leak and said was highly unlikely. noted, many governments have criticize the reports, credibility,

they say access was limited, and the chinese government with health data they are you china, the parent influence on the w. h. o has painted the reports. validity, china denies the virus league from one of its labs, saying its critics are playing politics. may was singling with 33000000 confirmed cases and about 600000 deaths from cover 19 in the u. s. which are the highest numbers in the world. the u. s. isn't reflecting on its own problems, but rather attempting to make a scape goat out of china. my question is, what are they able to find? can they sleep at night with an untroubled conscience that might, in administration, says, knowing the origins of covert 19 is a matter of global health. a way to stop another pandemic in the future. but the report could have far reaching consequences that go beyond the health sector. capielo visit again al jazeera. ah.

all right, let's bring it our guests for today's discussion from beijing rejoined by victor, go, vice president of the think tank. sense of china and globalization from copenhagen . we have jeffrey lazarus, a former w. h, a official and head of the health systems research group at the boss alona institute for global health, and from new york, with joint by dr. hakim, javala, a leading, or ologist, and ceo of current therapeutics, a warm welcome to you all, victor, let's start with you. this week, china said that it would not participate in additional investigations into the origins of the virus by the world health organization. why does china have something to hide? well, 1st of all, china has already fully cooperated with w h o. actually, the cooperation started from the very 1st week of the discovery of the pad that making hon in 2020, in early january. and throughout all these months, china worked very closely with

w h. all and china was very transparent in welcoming w h o expense which included many american scientists to visit with han, and they've already produced their conclusion. therefore, i think we need to use the w h o conclusion as the guidance rather than for example, using politics and refuse to put science above everything else. this is the attitude of china, and i will personally propose that we build up a global chronology for all the evidence is leading to the outbreak of the panoramic, including many evidences which have been discovered in the united states and several other countries. because by looking at all the relevant data and evidence, we will have a better idea as to where truly this virus started. but victoria say that the china was very transparent with the world health organization investigations day. as we heard in that report, criticized china, saying that they, they lacked access to certain places that they access to data in not

cooperating. the optics are that something sinister is going on and that china is hiding something and adding to that sense of cover up was trying his treatment of citizen john list some medical professionals like the some ologist, dr. ly, who sought to warn the world about the disease. again, why silence people if there's nothing to hi, this is all about optics. why? why can't china just be open about the surely it's, it's interest to do so. now i think you need to use the report by the w h o experts group as the may just starting point. and i think in dealing with a virus, every country in the world, including the united states, they have always been very cautious. because in dealing with the pad that make, there are many considerations to be reported. and it is particularly true in china . the 1st weeks of the outbreak because no one knew what exactly this was all about . it was diagnosed as different kinds of diseases and sickness and problems,

etc. and it took great courage and poorly of all resources through many possible china, for the scientist to very quickly discover the real nature of this virus. a child that took the leadership role of reporting to the w a show that your own sequencing results, which lay the groundwork force, grumbling into action for the vaccines by many countries. and i think we need to look at this is the major picture of what china did. and i think china has a very solid track record of wiping off the spread the virus. and i think many countries should learn from the child the success story. rather than pointing an accusing finger. china, jeffrey, lazarus, lazarus and copenhagen. you heard that china show great courage. has a solid track record of played a leadership role. what are your thoughts on the, on this probe, by us intelligence agencies?

what could it turn up that isn't already public knowledge or, or is it a purely political or genuine effort to get the truth? well, we heard already from those who were a part of the w h l team that there were issues around, you know, having full freedom of movement that they did. they felt they lacked access to some data that raises issues. you know what weren't able to see or what data weren't able to, to analyze and until that result, i think it's gonna leave a lot of open questions. so i agree that china opened up the country very early, and in 2022 a w h t and i spent 11 years at w h. i remember, well that w h o is governed by is member states and member states often play a role and contributing to reports into sometimes even improving those reports. so a lot of great information came out of the report was china made the sequencing

information available rather quickly, which has been essential to developing vaccines. so quickly. i feel that if there's a need to go back and do further investigation, then then that should happen. i'm not sure how political it is. i would have thought it was more political maybe under the trump presidency than dividing pregnancy. i think there's a real interest in understanding what happens so that we can protect laps better and that we can prevent this kind of virus spread in future. jeffery, how important is this this investigation in terms of preventing future pandemic? our governments sufficiently aware now of the dangerous after that, the coven, 19 pandemic. i think governments have been aware of the dangers for a long time. i mean, we've had lab accidents earlier. we've had, you know, 70 of other respiratory infections. you know, go to epa,

democrats and panoramic levels, and we've never seen something like this before. so now there's a real concern that we need to prepare in future. and we don't know what to do to investigation will turn up. i mean, i wonder, a year and a half later, you know, really how important it is to continue digging into the origins. but i think coming that team felt there was information they need or need to go back. and i think that should happen. i came to our doctor, contrary with us on an inside story. why is it so important to find out exactly where this pandemic began to find a patient 0? i think it's very critical because it's going to help us set in place a roadmap for preparedness for a future pandemic of future outbreaks. i think i have to say that this time around regardless, we have been very lucky that the virus that started this whole mess is no one to us, belongs to a family that we had prior experience ways and that has led to

a quick development in many aspects but it's h remade. so for up the most important that we figure out who is patient 0 in the one area. i think the theory of the wet market at no one really believes it. i think the theory of an accident in a lab. i don't believe it either. i've had the opportunity of visiting many labs in china when i was in south korea heading the pastor institute there, and they can tell you the security levels at some, most their bias, safety level threes are pretty high. it really high standards as we have in the united states, does that theory to me? it's still not holding water yet, but for future preparedness, i think w h show needs to put a roadmap and it needs to get there by 8 to from many countries of how we going to deal with this emerging diseases moving forward, in my opinion, sorry,

coffee 2 is just a warm up for worse things to come and for which we're not really that prepared. so you're fairly confident that this virus did not escape from a lab in china. it, it jumped from animals to humans. we just don't know where at the moment exactly i, you know, i used to run one of the largest by safety level threes in asia, in south korea and the south korean authorities. the korean cdc had one of the mos actually less stuff boxes to take to keep the lab operational every year. however, somebody can actually put a vial of the virus in their pocket and walk out with it. and if that happened in china, that's a whole different thing. that's not a leak, that's a criminal act. so we have to start thinking a difference between an accident, which is very hard to do, unless you for yourself, purposely with a needle containing a virus, or somebody decided to take

a sample of the virus with them in their pocket. that's completely different. and i think for that, even though our colleague from china, i understand his position, but at least one thing that we can, they can be prepared to release or at least provide the information on a just during that period where to spend make started either october, november or even december 2019 to try to track down the activities that were going in this institute and at least figure out if somebody was a disgruntled employee that bid something like that. this theory i, i actually buy into it an accident. i'm not too sure. victor, what do you make of that? well, 1st of all, i think age will be everyone's benefit if we can find out the real origin of the virus this time around. on the other hand, i think for example,

if we want to find the patient 0 for the spanish flu, the patient bureau cannot patient 0 cannot be founding spain. it's back in the united states. and that's why install reason more than 100 years ago. but it is a very similar situation in this time. china did discover this outbreak and took effective measures to, to fight off the spread on the virus in china. and we need to build up a global chronology basis, collecting all the relevant informations. like, for example, the southern closure of the, for the tricks laboratory in the united states, the e cigarette incident, which resulted in many patients getting sick and their symptoms were very much like the symptoms of a cobit 19 patient, for example. and there are many other evidences in different parts of the world, which i personally believe needs to be parked in into this global chronology so

that the scientists and the medical doctors can really have enough information to reach very important conclusion. with the aim of preventing such spread on the pad that make again in the future and every country, all of us will be better prepared. and this should be done on the basis of science and should be done on the basis that this virus is the common enemy of mankind. jeffrey, i'll come back to you just a moment, but i want to give dr. javala a chance to to answer that. i think what, what the victim was entering out there is that the virus may not have started in china at all. dr. what do you make of that this has been the chinese position all along and i think scientifically, we completely refute it. every country where we had the chance to sequence a virus, it had so much identity to the won sequence, and that's roots out all this e cigarette and all the other theories that the chinese authorities have come up

with since actually january 2020. i think patients 0 we are in a completely different world to the child to the spanish flu. and as an example, when i was in south korea, i didn't take us very long to identify patients 0 during the outbreak for the most virus. the same goes to saudi arabia, so we china, we will hon with all the development that china has accomplished. i think it would have been much easier to get us to patients. here is, here is a little strategy for our recording from china. if china feels very confident about every think, it has gone so far, they have no reason not to allow us access to the off the wall as a clinic. why dr. lie used to work. and many of us strongly believe that the cluster or the center point of the pandemic started there. and if that's the case, then they have, there is no reason why they shouldn't release the information of what happened

there. because throughout the war, hon and from the information we got from several scientists in china and we haven't heard from them. unfortunately since january 2020 we don't know where they are held . we don't know whether they even still alive and, and that's actually gets to the point of what these china hiding if, what our records from china is saying is true. there is no reason not to release just the information from this clinic. so we can understand the clinical manifestations that were presented from the month of september, october, november, 2019. okay, victor again. when we come back to the optics, if the, if china has nothing to hide, why is it being obstructive? no, i don't think china is being obstructive. china does not welcome people with vested interest in accusing china or try to hold china responsible for the spend that make . that's what time is firmly opposed to china wants to oppose those people who

refused to put science above everything else. and who wants to really sure their own responsibility for their failure of container, the virus in their own country and also leading to so many debts of the good hearted american people almost 600000 of them. that's i think, the shame that we witness in the world now talking about the incident before the outbreak in hon. i think the w, rachel should really organize an investigation into the american military athletes who attended the military game. england was to bro months before the outbreak and who reported sick to the genius time infectious disease hospital. their samples and their medical records were kept in china. and they were all of a sudden l if did send back to the united states. what happened to them? okay. what's that condition after they went back to the united states? i hope w h o should really look into this particular situation. you walk right with the

show as much as i had already cooperated with the i'm sorry to cut you off but but i have to give jeffrey an opportunity to speak him. what time is this pretty tight, jeffrey. what do you make of what you just just heard there? what, what about the world health organizations handling of this, this epidemic and the investigation into its origins? how is it performed as it, is it doing what it's designed to do? well, we know, and i hear him this conversation that it is getting and has been very political. w, joe was asked by its governing body to, to send an international team in and, and investigate. and they did. and there were reports, as i mentioned, that they didn't have all the access they wanted. and then the latest report that they didn't receive all the data they wanted. so w h o, you know, does not enter our country without the permission of that country. and, you know,

in the handling of this pandemic, it's in close glen, it's working in close collaboration with the government, focal points from around the world, particularly those most, most effective. i think they've been doing great job from the beginning of announcing that this is a public health emergency and public health concern that you know, they right rather quickly found that there were a human to human transmission. some people think it went to slow, but it was within weeks of the 1st investigation. but it's governments who are putting up obstacles and government who didn't want to declare the pandemic and w h o had attempt tied. when it goes into a country, you can send the best experts which i think it's been doing, but they don't have all the access they want. they're not gonna be able to get the job done. and we heard of there's, you know, china has nothing to hide and w, hbo says they'd like to go back or other governments feel that they need for further investigation. then i think it should happen at the picture on it. i need

a, a brief answer from you if you can just china of you this submitted this investigation, this intelligence gathering operation announced by the, by the administration this week, as purely political. what is it likely to do to china, us relations? well, this will be bad for me as relations and i think this is really refusing to put science above everything else. it's pointing intelligence about science and president trump in his administration, tried and failed. and i believe because the vitamin will try and fail again. dr. joe butler, how likely is this inquiry to lead to nothing but a dead end? you think given that it's, it's intelligence based. it's not going to have people on the ground in china. oh, i am of the opinion and i think some of my colleagues of the same opinion that at least members of the g 20 countries had this low to moderate intelligence back in december 2019. and based on that alone,

i don't think what the president biden has asked for will ship any more lights than what we know. and i agree with my colleague from china. it's going to just turn this into a very, very uncomfortable tennis game between china and the united states. i think now i believe 2 things perhaps could happen one, w, h o, we do respect, lost his credibility, and they should no longer be involved in any investigation. i think that should be kept out of this and to i think we should think of really starting a new forum compose mainly else international experts around the world with the idea of them going to china even to other countries at b, b on the field, go to labs, talk to people, go to hospitals, and then they can come up with once and for all i am not looking for the proof such i'm looking for a roadmap that's going to help pass to be better prepared in the future. and the way things have been going under the trump administration,

and now under president biden's hub, ministration will not help us. and i don't believe it's science driven. i think the intel has been known for a while. it hasn't really shed any light on anything that we know so far about what happened there. and jeffrey lazarus, what, what do you make of that? the w h o shouldn't be involved in any future investigation into the origins of the virus? i disagree. i think w h o should continue to be involved, but i also agree in the importance of building a roadmap, we saw that w h. i had a lot of challenges and addressing this and demick and i think the world knows it now. and demick preparedness is one of our absolute most important health issues in the world and moving forward. so we're going to need to, we have a new institution or, or new ways for current institutions to work and to be more effective. we've seen it before with the global fund, which, you know, with the gobby alliance organizations that were set up in some ways to, to,

to fill in for shortcomings and existing organizations and agencies. gentleman way out of time. many thanks for being with us. talk to how came javala, victor go and jeffrey lazarus as always, thank you to for watching. don't forget you can see the program again at any time just by going to the website out here a dot com. and for further discussion, join us that our facebook page, you'll find that at facebook dot com forward slash a j inside story. and you can join the conversation on twitter handle at ha, inside story for me, adrian against the whole team. here though, thanks for watching the news me

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