tampering relief efforts gun as parliament is holding a session on thursday to approve the deployment of emergency aid. tough grain of ours restrictions being ease in columbia capital above it. our move is being made even as the number of infections and deaths remain high, and nighttime curfew will be removed and bowers will be allowed to stay for 21 o'clock in the morning. it's happening after more than a month of anti government protests. ah. all right, let's have a quick check of the headlines here. and now desert at a you in court is upheld the conviction of rudco melodic for genocide and crimes against humanity. the posting military commander lead force is responsible for the massacre of both new muslims in our faces life in prison. a vigil is being held in canada for muslim family killed. and what the prime minister says was a terrorist attack, motivated by hate, for members of the same family were run over and killed by a driver. as canadians,

we make a pact with one another that we will look out for each other. take care of each other, respect each other. well for the muslim canadian community, that packed has been broken too many times. it was broken last fall in a tober, coke, and in quebec city. in far too many places across the country, islam a phobia is real. racism is real. the f b, i says it's developed to secret encrypted device to target criminal organizations. worldwide. 800 people have been arrested in a global crime operation dubbed trojan and shield you as vice president common harris has met with mexican president, answered his men will lopez over the door. they've agreed to try to tackle poverty

in an effort to reduce the number of people from central america migrating to the u . s. the number of families in unaccompanied minus has accelerated since president joe biden to office proven to still waiting to learn who will be the next president, the latest results from sundays run off. sho, leftist said peter christine secured. 50 percent of the vote is conservative. rival taken, which maury has 49 percent, which more is not conceding, she's alleging fraud, but has not provided any proof about 20 the french president, manuel macros has been slept in the face while visiting a small town in the country south. the man was reported shouting down with my cronin before the alleged assault, a 2 people have been arrested following the incident or a youngster with headlines. we have more news coming up here on our 0 right after inside story. me

a bit going be trusted. el salvador wants to make it legal tender, but other countries are clumping down on crypto currencies, saying they provide a haven for criminal. so what's the future but digital money is inside story. ah . hello and welcome to the program on the hill robin. it's just over a decade, bitcoin has turned from an idea into one of the most talked about financial assets every day. will companies sign up to accept it as a form of payment?

funds say is the future of money free from the control of government and central banks. the largest crypto currency conference in history took place last week in miami, and it was here that el salvador president announced plans to make his country the 1st to accept bitcoin as legal, tender, 70 percent of the population don't have access to a bank account. they have because he says his plan will help salvadorans abroad, particularly in the united states to send money back home in the short term, this will generate jobs and help provide financial inclusion, 20001000 the formal economy and in the medium and long term. we hope that this is ball decision can help us push humanity, alyssa, tiny bit into the right direction. while cellar embracing bitcoin is a different story. in china, the government has banned the crypto currency services in banks, and it's blocked accounts promoting digital money on the micro blogging site. waco, one of the reasons maybe the environment. china is home to 70 percent of the

machines that handle mine crypto currency transactions. it's estimated they use more energy per year than all of our engine. tina chinese state media has accused criminals of using virtual currencies to load the money and trade weapons and drugs . and in the us, the justice department announced it had recovered most of the bit coins paid as ramson after hackers shut down oil pipelines last month. the equivalent of $4400000.00 was sent to a group called dark fight, believe to be based in russia. today we turned the tables on dark side by going after the entire ecosystem that fuels ransomware and digital extortion attacks, including criminal proceeds in the form of digital currency. we will continue to use all of our tools and all of our resources to increase the cough and the consequences of ransomware attacks and other cyber enabled attacks.

ah, well, let's bring in august and amsterdam tv for apple, who's an assistant professor in economic law at utrecht. university in london, delray mcconnell, why chair of cybersecurity and the department of computer science at the university of york. and in new york, john big journalist, entrepreneur, and full editor of coin, desk site, specializing in but coin and digital currencies. welcome to all on the program, john, can i begin with you in new york because in theory and opportunity for the disenfranchised to be included in the process that will make it easier for them to receive money from abroad without the middleman taking a huge cut on the surface, it seems like quite a game changer for el salvador. sure, absolutely. does. i mean the, the ultimate dream for a lot of big klein fans crypto currency fans in general was the ability to do

remittances. remittance is the crypto currency are a sensually free. there's still associated fees, but they're definitely not the $20.00 to $30.00 to even 50 percent fees associated with like a western union. those fees are just for pages. so for el salvador to, to accept bitcoin as its own fee currency, you could say, or just a sort of generally accepted in a as legal tender is vitally important. because i can basically sit here from my phone with you over $5.00 and not have to worry that i'm going to lose $250.00 of that $2.50 of that in transfer fees. that's a game changer for anybody who's making just a little bit of cash. why do you think he's proposing it now? why are they proposing? and now the, the, the answer to that is that it was, it was bit quite miami. there was, there was a conference going on and it's just now becoming more mainstream to actually be

able to pull this off. and it's actually probably easier, cheaper now than ever to pull this off so they might as well do it. now, let's go over to a t base triple instead, i mean while president and ne, but because of how to decide which likely will be ratified by his government, cuz he has the numbers over there in parliament. how much of a move do you think this is to count, to sort of us allegations at the moment of corruption on this whitening rift between the u. s. that wants to counter you might say any elicit financial dealings around the world to el salvador, trying to flex its muscle and on the surface help its own people. well, in my opinion, the us is actually right in the middle. you do have one extreme which will be to, to adopt the rate of currencies as they exist already, which is the, the bus that to alpha doors taking right now. another extremely too bad crypto currencies, which are numerous countries, including edges, morocco, police, and so on, are doing. and then in the middle of the us and europe,

which are regulating existing crypto currencies. but also the same time, they tried to create their own criminal currencies to put a digital euro or digital daughter. so it's not that extreme and that different from, from the salvador inform respects delara come by. can i bring you in from london? i, what's your opinion now? you've heard, you might say 2 views, one month to diamond from new york. well, i've worked mostly in the science could to currencies and beat points. so my perspective is more towards a security and get a how big for the secure and how it can be legalized in many countries. for example, in u. s. and japan, i mean come pick coin be the be security safe. you might say in a country like el salvador, we might not think of it as being a 1st world i'm. so that's a good question. i mean,

some of the bitcoin companies, they have, they have their own security rates and it's really hard to know what they are, what they are using because of the key or other regulations. but the point is that perhaps i wanted to catch up and be in the same pages other 1st more countries, as mentioned john, but talking about to new york, i mean come to us with any pressure on el salvador. so to, to change their minds on using this bit coin currency because the move will allow pop cell solvable to move away from the normal banking systems. will it all in an potential sort of us oversight while the what, what we're, what we're talking about here is the, is the, i guess, the digital equivalent of putting the, filling a suitcase full of cash and sending it overboard. right. so it's a really,

really interesting question. the tracking is it, is it legal? does it have any effect on the economy? i guess you could say. and i would argue that in many cases, this is exactly, this is exactly what a poor country should be doing. currency controls or damaging to a lot of countries. a lot of the fear associated with crypt currency isn't really a big deal. you asked about security. again, as i said, if you stick or if you stick a bunch of cash in a box and send it to grandma and, and salvador, you're going to worry that somebody's gonna intercept that and open it up. but vast majority time, it's almost impossible with crypto currency. luckily, that also means that once grandma gets cash, she can be swindled out of it pretty easily because of because of online fraudsters, et cetera. the real question for salvador, how are they going to manage taxation of this? and one would suspect that at this point, they don't have a good handle on that. and in the future, if they're able to use crypto,

they may have a better handle on it, especially if they use some sort of centralized exchange by breaking crypto currencies. crypt occurrence is supposed to be implicitly decentralized, right? there's not gonna be supposed to be one actor by breaking them and making one actor in that country. you could feasibly, you could feasibly make, have more control over it. okay? well, it's not again, agreement. i want to come to you actually over to, i mean, how much if we, why this conversation out now beyond del sol, how much had the arrival and performance of bitcoin made established banks of the banking system rethink the way that they have to operate now and in the future, because 10 years is a very short space of time to any change to face of the way. finances being re thought. i'm afraid we have to talk a bit about the technique and the infrastructure behind each crypto currency. because you ask the question about security to some degree you could say that's bitcoin is very secure because it is immutable. so if you send money, you know, for a fact that money has been sent to that person or the other. right?

and if you want to stop transactions, then you could say that bitcoin is probably not exactly what you want. and therefore, you may want to be looking for another type of crypto currency in which you do have only one actor behind it controlling all transactions. and i think this is what we're going to see when the state is going to develop their own crypto currencies. you will be public, meaning that everyone will be able to use it, but it will be permission, meaning that only the state or a handful of players will be able to track all transactions and potentially stop the few transactions. so at the end of the day, the infrastructure behind block shane and bitcoin and all of those critical currencies is very important. of course, i mean if you want to trust bitcoin a currency, you have to buy into it as such. i mean, and that's what pops the problem lies to the skeptics, doesn't it? teaberry that is success is for those that sort of want to take a chance on it. and it's all about trust. yes, and i mean that's the big debate because what it said to come to whoever the person is wrote the be going paper. you said that the coin was a trust,

less technology and currency and some poor, arching. that's the thing that it's actually the exact opposite. it allows you because you don't have to trust a single person to trust the entire system. but i very much agree with you. it's all a matter of trust at the end of the day. but the same is true for the dollar and euro, i mean you trust that people are book value, the value if you use it for payments. so it's not that different at the end of the day in that regard. it's going to give you a little bit more context. you talk about trust because, and as the best of the different types of crypto currency. so it's have a quick look at them because the crypto currencies we've mentioned of virtual money that are exchanged on line crypto currencies driver value from being scarce and saved in a digital wallet. that value has fluctuated over the years. and despite the supporter say that they are safe havens that could one day replace gold. then there is organizations like facebook that have packed theme, and it's another form of crypto currency is planning to launch a digital coin peg to the us dollar later this year. and then there are governments

who are looking at creating their own digital currencies. they're essentially electronic cash that could be used instead of bank notes, checks and credit cards. so let me go to a dollar and cut by in london. of course, it's all about trust and, and the legality of crypto currencies being a form of money as well. to give an example makes pretty flint for everybody at home that can paps think of a simple example. trusting and legal finance is when you buy a house, for example, i may want to purchase a house in the u. k. a. when it comes to the bank asking me where my money comes from. they have to do the due diligence. as does the lawyer who's organizing the paperwork around the house, they want to the where the money has come from and how long it's been sitting in my bank before they can go ahead and said yes, it's not part of money laundering or drug money. and that's where the problem license, if a bit coin in that security aspect, delara is that a problem in the way people can use bitcoin and the security aspects around it?

that's a great question. why do we have to pay attention? is this going started on in 2008? and usually what we consider in cryptography is something secure. it's a lot of talk refers mathematicians have to really study age and do do lots of research. so it's going to take some time. but inevitably, i think digital cars are going to replace the classic currency as anything else when we, many years ago when we moved from our paperwork to everything come to your eyes. so it's a certain about the verification and authentication. these are topics in cryptography that has been worked for a long time and the security around point or not just

a trust and authentication. it's also how we can hack it or break it, which rely on security are so called hash functions, which is still the existence of the rio hash function. all can problem into work. so the question about how did all the cheese 8? i think most the governments are concerned about the illegal way of using crypt currencies. for example, i don't know large or petrie shop or things like that. so it's something that event we'd up digital car which is still going on and it's possible it's just like they don't want to be surprised or they find other race. and also what about taxation show as a t, but you're not in agreement. you want to come in?

sure, because i realized this might be confusing to, to some listeners because we hear some time that everything that happens on the blocks is public. and sometimes we hear quite the opposite, that the dream for criminal to do something and secrets, and actually the 2 are true are the same time. so to make it clear what you see on the block chain that is for the b going block chain are, is the meta data. so you will see that one user is transacting with another user that is public. but the reason for the transaction, the real life identity is not necessarily shown on the block chain. and so for that reason, it might be if you can combine the data that the regulator or the enforcer gets to the real life identity and to stop transaction. but at the same time, if you don't have enough information, then indeed it might be that so be coin is more secret than using your credit cards to, to buy something in a store. and these, all the red flags that are being flown at the moment. john in new york and recent events in china, certainly of the last weekend,

have certainly made people who have bitcoin alert, specially because a lot of the actually the mining, the collection of bitcoin does happen in server areas across china. what's your reactions, what's going on there? i mean, i think it say, i think it's a ploy by the chinese government to reorganize the face of crypto currency. the, the bitcoin mines are hugely energy intensive, but the fact is they basically run them next to the next oil hydro electric plan. so you're essentially getting free energy to run these things, but it's making, it's making people who are essentially off the radar, fairly rich when it comes to that, when it comes to that technology. so that, that mission over there is to create a more earth friendly crypto currency that can be tracked in the same way they were just talking about. i think one of the other issues that we have in terms of crypt currency is that we're waiting for that the governments are essentially trying to

figure out a way to pave the pave the road towards general adoption. right now we, you, anyone on this call could probably grab some, probably bright grass or if there's some big coin just by doing the things you need to do on a computer. but the vast majority of people who would really, really need this technology wouldn't be able to do it. they might not have the technology, they might not have the understanding. they might not even have the trust. so if, if what i, i was, i was working on a remittance system a couple years ago. 2014, i suppose. and the whole idea of remittances is based around the you go to a place you to sign a little piece of paper and you give your money over to a clerk behind a bullet bulletproof class. and you feel comfortable that that process is safe and secure. that's why you use a western that's why you use the money transfer station. this whole process is completely wild. it's completely alien. and it's, and it's, and it seems on its surface implicitly dangerous. so that sort of education is vitally important now indeed, and della uncovering, you hear about, you know,

being implicitly dangerous. and also how difficult it is to track sometimes the transactions. what's happened in the us over the colonial pipeline. ransomware demands recently in the recovery of 4.4, half the half of the full point 4000000 paid in ran. some certainly raises those red flags of that. i mean, how difficult is it to you might say, track down those that are, you know, involved in criminal activity, what sort of expertise would the americans have pulled in to try and get some of this big coin back? well, if i can, i try can trace such a digital currency, then it wouldn't satisfy the actual need or the creation. what remains to be answered. there are many research around it, perhaps creating something. you are adding additional parameters

or something like that to the, to the whole cryptography part to be, to, to make sure that it will be adjusted to what governments are concerned up or perhaps prevent some of the actions taken by or concerns about the criminal assets in terms of the criminality. tv, i mean the us seems to want to head off bitcoin mining is such and, and, and most of the examples of, of what's happened on their own territory. alarms them when they're actually trying to tighten the rules of the countries. sure. i mean, it seems to me that what you see very clearly is a race between some developers in the space. not all of them want to escape. you know, the state that some do and the state who are trying to catch up and to develop new technique. and so at the end of the day, it might be that if you are a big state, you may be able to track down some, some face,

some use it. it might be more complex if you are an individual going after another be user. so that's one thing that's happening in the field, and i very much agree that another very important topic is the one of access. and that's where big companies kick in. and we see, and we discussed already facebook. we're launch a crypt currency in just a few weeks a month and it seems from the white paper that the plan is that if you don't load facebook or instagram, what's up on your phone, then automatically you will get the wallet that will allow you to use their crypto currency. so of course it raises a lot of questions, especially anti trust questions, but those are the 2 topics that i think we should be discussing and probably together. indeed, in terms of the way countries, john big new york like egypt, morocco and potentially india banning crypto currencies. do you think that is something that's just going to stay? you might say for the short term, because in the long term they're going to have to, you might say, you know, joined the party. yeah. it's, it's a short term. it's a short term solution. it's

a, it's a solution born of you can say frustration with the technology moving so fast, not be not understanding a technology is often that is often the fastest road to banning it, unfortunately, or understanding it too well, right. understanding the understand the implications, especially for currency controls and especially in a country where we're, maybe the outflow is bigger than the inflow. for example, trying to control that, those economics is widely different, difficult. it's in a lot of companies, countries have given up, which is why you see a slow but steady acceptance of crypto currency, outright bands, they never work, right? they're never, they're not going to, they're not going to remain. and i'm 100 percent certain that if we went to morocco right now would be able to find some big point somewhere. in fact, i could carry this thing with me, which is a, this is crazy, a wallet. i could carry this in a morocco and buy and sell

a coin pretty easily. indeed, i mean, intel wrong. so i just bring you in. it's talk about security because that is being called into question. and in the briefing that's i got before this program, you talk of quantum computers coming into effect and then having a very big influence on the whole business itself. yes. so in 2015 but national security just in the us after smoke, and revelation made an announcement followed by a nice national institute standard and technology. megan maida, worldwide announcements, or getting proposals for so called post quantum primitives or pizza systems that are basically secure. again, it has strong quantum computer will be, will be invented. and last july,

the 3rd round happened. and the and off the final is of the, of the competition that are included in laughter, space, cryptography, and code based cryptography, cryptography. and so each coins or crypt current are somehow should be, i kept mentioning about more research has to be done. and so to, to attract the trust of the government because if people that you know, the word is going up, i just need one very brief question. then to tv shows amsterdam, what do you say to the skeptics like, warren buffet la muscular mosque was singing the praises of bitcoin just a few years ago. now he's pulling back a little bit. sure. and then it has been also vocal in thing that, you know, maybe it's not too bad after all, and you may have some financial interest behind you too. it's very hard to,

to read what's happening. but if you move a little bit and you look at the state level, what you see that there is a tension between trying to keep control and also trying to get lock of users and people involving a system which also provide security. and so that tension is being expressed by the european central bank. there has been quite vocal that they are looking for the best way to design you to euro. but i just want to make it clear that the end game of all that is not just to, to give a crypto currency, but it's to own the infrastructure for to morrow world's transaction. and if a states manages that is a critical currency will be adopted by all the states. it might be the most important economy power ever old by any governments, because they will control any transactions happening everywhere. we shall see. what does happen though they we have to have it, i'm afraid to be wrapping up on the la. i'm a cutter by in london, and john bigs in new york. thank you so much for joining us on this edition of inside story. and thank you for watching as well. you can see all the while previous programs anytime by visiting our website at amazon dot com and for further

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