health care staff and so then this would facilitate more natural interaction. a human like appearance facilitates trust and facilitate natural engagement because we're wired for human face to face interaction. that's just the way human beings are. and so giving her a face that would be familiar to people, comforting the people and also language abilities that are comforting, ah, now again, i'm fully back to the with the headlines on al jazeera, the united nations is warning of a major loss of life in eastern myanmar, if no immediate action is taken, its accusing security forces of indiscriminate strikes against civilians. armed groups have been resisting the military june. that's cracked down on dissent, fin seizing power in february. now we're getting a torch. there. have little to no water food. there are

people getting sick and they have no access to medical supplies. and what we've also learned is that the hunter is blocking roach that could provide to aid organizations and those who are trying to get to them access to these people. and i've also heard a report, a credible report to just to day that landmines are being laid on the road leading to the forests where these desperate people are. so we could be looking not only at the impact of the bombing itself, but we could be looking at a significant loss of life, a court in russia as hearing a petition to outlaw political organisations linked to jailed opposition. neither alex in of ami, if approved, it will ban on these allies from running parliamentary elections later this year. the case is being brought by moscow's top prosecutor, was accused of army and his supporters of trying to wrong to launch a revolution. at least 10 workers clearing land mines in afghanistan in the north have been killed. the government is blaming the taliban,

but it's denied responsibility. but he say gunman entered the camping background province and opened fire. there's been an increase in violence in the area in nicaragua, for opposition. politicians hoping to run against those in daniel ortega, november's election have now been arrested in recent days. it follows that attention of 2 other opposition figures. the top us diplomat for latin america says the crime down tools. daniel ortega is a dictator. the european union has endorsed a vaccine certificate for travel within the block. it comes as france opens its borders to foreign tourists as long as it had a corona, via fax, seen. the government has removed the need for call, the 1900 tests for vaccinated europeans and green list countries. other vaccinated visitors need to provide a negative pcr test. those are the headlines on al jazeera, more news after high story. news.

news, news. news come bit going be trusted. el salvador wants to make it legal tender, but other countries are clumping down on crypto currency saying they provide a haven for criminal. so what's the future but digital money is inside story. ah . hello and welcome to the program on the hill robin. it's just over a decade, bitcoin has turned from an idea into one of the most talked about financial assets every day. will companies sign up to accept it as a form of payment?

funds say is the future of money free from the control of government and central banks. the largest crypto currency conference in history took place last week in miami, and it was here that el salvador president announced plans to make his country the 1st to accept bitcoin as legal, tender, 70 percent of the population don't have access to a bank account layer because he says his plan will help salvadorans abroad, particularly in the united states to send money back home. in the short term, this will generate jobs and help provide financial inclusion, 20001000 the formal economy and in the medium and long term. we hope that this is ball decision can help us push humanity at least a tiny bit into the right direction. while similar embracing bitcoin is a different story in china, the government has banned the crypto currency services in banks, and it's blocked accounts promoting digital money on the micro blogging site. waco, one of the reasons maybe the environment. china is home to 70 percent of the

machines that handle mine crypto currency transactions. it's estimated they use more energy per year than all of our engine. tina chinese state media has accused criminals of using virtual currencies to load the money and trade weapons and drugs . and in the us, the justice department announced it had recovered most of the bit coins paid as ransom, and hackers shut down oil pipelines last month. the equivalent of $4400000.00 was sent to a group called dark fight. believe me, based in russia. today we turned the tables on dark side by going after the entire ecosystem that fuels ransomware and digital extortion. the tax, including criminal proceeds in the form of digital currency. we will continue to use all of our tools and all of our resources to increase the cough and the consequences of ransomware attacks and other cyber enabled attacks.

ah, well, let's bring in august and stood on tv for apple, who's an assistant professor in economic law at utrecht university in london dollar . i'm a kind of why chair of cybersecurity in the department of computer science at the university of york and new york john big journalist, entrepreneur and form editor of coin desk, a science specializing in but coin and digital currency is welcome to will on the program. john, to get with you in new york because in theory and opportunity for the disenfranchised to be included in a process that will make it easier for them to receive money from abroad without the middleman taking a huge cut on the surface. it seems like quite a game changer for el salvador. sure, absolutely. does. i mean the, the ultimate dream for a lot of big coin fans. crypto currency fans in general was the ability to do

remittances. remittance is the crypto currency are sensually free. they're still associated fees, but they're definitely not the $20.00 to $30.00 to even 50 percent fees associated with like a western union. those fees are just for pages. so for el salvador to, to accept bitcoin as its own currency, you could say, or just a sort of generally accepted in a as legal tender is vitally important. because i can basically sit here from my phone with you over $5.00 and not have to worry that i'm going to lose $250.00 that $2.50 for that in transfer fees. that's a game changer for anybody who's making just a little bit of cash. why do you think he's proposing it now? why are they proposing? and now the, the, the answer to that is that it was, it was quite miami. there was, there was a conference going on and it's just now becoming more mainstream to actually be

able to pull this off. and it's actually probably easier, cheaper now than ever to pull this off so they might as well do it. now, let's go over to the base ripple in amsterdam, i mean, while president and ne, but because of a how to decide which likely will be ratified by his government. cuz he has the numbers over there in parliament. how much of a move do you think besides to counter sort of us allegations at the moment of corruption on this widening rift between the u. s. that wants to counter you might say any elicit financial dealings around the world to el salvador, trying to flex its muscle and on the surface help its own people. while in my opinion, the us is actually right in the middle. you do have one extreme which will be to, to adopt her of currencies as they exist already, which is the, the bus that salvador taking right now. another extremely too bad crypto currencies, which are numerous countries, including edges, morocco, believe and so on are doing. and then in the middle of the us and europe,

which are regulating existing crypt currencies. but also at the same time, they tried to create their own criminal currencies to put a digital euro or digital daughter. so it's not that extreme and that different from, from el salvador, in some respects. delara come by. can i bring you in from london? i, what's your opinion now? you've heard, you might say 2 views, one month to diamond from new york. well, i work mostly in the science of crypt according to some bitcoin. so my perspective is more towards the security and how this could be secure and how it can be legalized in many countries. for example, in u. s. and japan, i mean, come bitcoin beast, the be security safe. you might say in a country like el salvador, we might not think of it as being a 1st world so that's a good question. i mean,

some of the beachfront companies, they have, they have their own security rates and it's really hard to know what they are, what they are using because of the key or other regulations. but the point is that perhaps that's all there wanted to catch up and be in the same pages other 1st more countries. as i mention, john was talking about the new york. i mean, come to us, put any pressure on el salvador. so to, to change their minds on using this bit coin currency because the move will allow, perhaps el salvador to move away from the normal banking systems. will it all it and potential sort of us oversight while the what, what we're, what we're talking about here is the, is the, i guess, the digital equivalent of putting the, filling a suitcase full of cash and sending it overboard. right. so it's a really,

really interesting question. the tracking is it, is it legal? does it have any effect on the economy? i guess you could say. and i would argue that in many cases, this is exactly, this is exactly what a poor country should be doing. currency controls or damaging to a lot of countries. a lot of the fear associated with crypt currency isn't really a, a big deal. you asked about security. again, as i said, if you stick or if you stick a bunch of cash in a box and send it to grandma and, and salvador, you're going to worry that somebody's going to intercept that and open it up. but vast majority time, it's almost impossible as crypto currency. luckily, that also means that once grandma gets that cash, she can be swindled out of it pretty easily because of because of online fraudsters, et cetera. the real question for salvador, how are they going to manage taxation of this? and one would suspect that at this point, they don't have a good handle on that. and in the future, if they're able to use crypto,

they may have a better handle on it, especially if they use some sort of centralized exchange by breaking crypto currencies. cryptic currency is supposed to be implicitly decentralized, right? there's not gonna be supposed to be one actor by breaking them and making one actor in that country. you could feasibly, you could feasibly make, have more control over it. okay? well, it's not again, agreement. i want to come to you actually over to, i mean, how much if we, why this conversation out now beyond del sol, how much has the arrival and performance of bitcoin made established banks of the banking system rethink the way that they have to operate now and in the future of 10 years as of a short space of time to any change to face of the way. finances being re thought. i'm afraid we have to talk a bit about the technique and the infrastructure behind each crypto currency. because you ask the question about security to some degree you could say that's bitcoin is very secure because it is immutable. so if you send money, you know, for a fact that money has been sent to that person or the other. right?

and if you want to stop transactions, then you could say that bitcoin is probably not exactly what you want. and therefore, you may want to be looking for another type of crypto currency in which you to have only one actor behind it controlling all transactions. and i think this is what we're going to see when the state is going to develop their own crypto currencies. you will be probably committing that. everyone will be able to use it, but it will be permission, meaning that only the state or a handful of players will be able to track all transactions and potentially stop the few transactions. so at the end of the day, the infrastructure behind block shane and bitcoin and all of those critical currencies is very important. of course, i mean if you want to trust bitcoin a currency, you have to buy into it as such. i mean, and that's what pops the problem lies to the skeptics, doesn't it? teaberry that is success is for those that sort of want to take a chance on it. and it's all about trust. yes, and i mean that's a big debate because once i committed to whoever the person is wrote the base point paper, you said that the coin was

a trust less technology and currency and some poor, arching. that's the thing that it's actually the exact opposite. it allows you because you don't have to trust a single person to trust the entire system, but i very much agree with you. it's all a matter of trust at the end of the day. but the same is true for the dollar and euro. i mean, you trust that people were book value, the value if you use it for payments. so it's not that different at the end of the day in that report and he will give you a little bit more context. you talk about trust because, and as the best that there are different types of crypto currency that's have a quick look at them. because the quick to currencies, we've mentioned of virtual money that are exchanged on line crypto currencies driver value from being gas and a saved in a digital wallet. that value has fluctuated over the years. and despite the supporters say that they are safe havens, that could one day replace gold. then there is organizations like facebook that have packed theme, and it's another form of crypto currency. it's planning to launch a digital coin, peg to the us dollar later this year. and then there are governments who are

looking at creating their own digital currencies. they're essentially electronic cash that could be used instead of bank notes, checks and credit cards. so let me go to a dollar and cut by in london. of course, it's all about trust and, and the legality of crypto currencies being a form of money. i want to give an example makes pretty for everybody at home. the can paps think of a simple example trust and legal finance is when you buy a house. for example, i may want to purchase a house in the u. k. a when it comes to the bank asking me where my buddy comes from. they have to do the due diligence, as does the lawyer who's organizing the paperwork around the house. they want to the, where the money has come from and how long it's been sitting in my bank before they can go ahead and said yes, it's not part of money laundering or, or drug money. and that's where the problem license, if a bit coin in that security aspect, delara is not a problem in the way people can use bitcoin and the security aspects around it.

that's a great question. one thing we have to pay attention is this kind of started on in 2008. and usually what we consider in cryptography is something secure. it's a lot of cryptographers mathematicians have to really study age and do do lots of research. so it's going to take some time, but inevitably, i think digital currency are going to replace the classic currency as anything else . when we, many years ago when we moved from paperwork to everything comes to your eyes. so it's a certain about the verification and authentication. these are the topics in cryptography that has been worked for a long time and the security around this point or not just

a trust and authentication. it's also how you can hack it or break it, which rely on security are so called hash functions, which is still the existence of the re a hash function all can problem in the work. so the, the question about how did all the cheese 8 some? i think most the governments are concerned about the eco way of using crypt currencies for example, i don't know large or, or things like that. so it's something that's even read up digital car which is still going on and it's possible it's just like they don't want to be surprised or they find other ways. and also what about taxation show as a t, but you're, you're not in agreement. you wanna come in?

sure, because i realize this might be confusing to, to some listeners because we hear sometimes that everything that happens on the blocks is public. and sometimes we hear quite the opposite. does the dream for criminal to do something and secrets, and actually the 2 are true are the same time. so to make it clear, what you see on the block chain that is for the be going block chain are, is the, the meta data. so you will see that one user, it transaction with another user that is public. but the reason for the transaction, the real life identity is not necessarily shown on the block chain. and so for that reason, it might be if you can combine the data at the regulator or the enforcer, you may get to the real life identity and to stop transaction. but at the same time, if you don't have enough information, then indeed it might be that so be coin is more secrets than using your credit cards to, to buy something in a store. and these, all of at flags that are being flown at the moment. john in new york and recent events in china, certainly as the last weekend have certainly may people who have bitcoin alert

specially because a lot of the actually the mining, the collection of bit coin does happen in, in server areas across china. what's your reactions, what's going on there? i mean, i think it say, i think it's a ploy by the chinese government to reorganize the face of crypto currency. the, the bitcoin mines are hugely energy intensive, but the fact is they basically run them next to next door hydro electric plan. so you're essentially getting free energy to run these things. but it's making, it's making people who are essentially off the radar. fairly rich when it comes to that, when it comes to that technology. so that, that mission over there is to create a more earth friendly crypto currency that can be tracked in the same way they were just talking about. i think one of the other issues that we have in terms of crypt currency is that we're waiting for that the governments are essentially trying to

figure out a way to pay the pay the road towards general adoption. right now, anyone on this call could probably grab some probably bright grass or if there's some big coin just by doing the things you need to do on a computer. but the vast majority of people who would really, really need this technology wouldn't be able to do it. they might have not have the technology, they might not have the understanding. they might not even have the trust. so if, if what i, i was, i was working on a remittance system a couple years ago. 2014, i suppose. and the whole idea of remittances is based around the you go to a place you to sign a little piece of paper and you give your money over to a clerk behind a bullet bulletproof class. and you feel comfortable that that process is safe and secure. that's why you use a western that's why you use a money transfer station. this whole process is completely wild. it's completely alien and it's, and it's, and it seems on its surface implicitly dangerous. and so that sort of education is vitally important. now, indeed, and done on covering you hear about, you know,

being implicitly dangerous. and also how difficult it is to track sometimes the transactions. what's happened in the us over the colonial pipeline ransom where demands recently in the recovery of 4.4, half the half of the 4400000 paid in rance uncertainty raises those red flags of that. i mean, how difficult is it to you might say, track down those that are, you know, involved in criminal activity, what sort of expertise would the americans have pulled in to try and get some of this big coin back? well, if i can, i try can trace such a digital currency, then it wouldn't satisfy the actual need or the creation. what do you mean to be answered? there are many research around. it's perhaps creating something you are adding additional parameters or something like that to the,

to the whole cryptography part to me, to, to make sure that it's will be adjusted to what governments are concerned of or perhaps prevent some of the actions taken by or concerns about the criminal assets in terms of the criminality. tv, i mean the us seems to want to head off bitcoin mining is such and, and, and most of the examples of, of what's happened on their own territory. alarms them when they're actually trying to tighten the rules of the countries. sure, i mean, it seems to me that what you see very clearly is a race between some developers and the state. not all of them want to escape, you know, the state some do. and the state who are trying to catch up and to develop new technique. and so at the end of the day, it might be that if you are a big state, you may be able to track down some, some case, some use it. it might be more complex if you are an individual going after another

be going user. so, so that's one thing that's happening in the field, and i very much agree that's another very important topic is the one of access. and that's where big companies kick in. and we see, and we discussed already facebook. we're launch a crypto currency in just a few weeks a month and it seems from the wifi for that. the plan is that if you don't load facebook or instagram, what's up on your phone, then automatically you will get the wallet that will allow you to use their crypto currency. so of course, the trade in a lot of questions is especially anti trust questions. but those are the 2 topics that i think we should be discussing and probably together indeed, and in terms of the way countries, john big new york like egypt, morocco and potentially india banning crypto currencies. do you think that is something that's just going to stay? you might say for the short term, because in the long term they're going to have to, you might say, you know, join the party. yeah. it's, it's a short term, it's a short term solution. it's a,

it's a solution born of you can say frustration with the technology moving so fast, not be not understanding a technology is often that is often the fastest road to banning it, unfortunately, or understanding it too well, right. understanding the understand the implications, especially for currency controls and especially in a country where we're, maybe the outflow is bigger than the inflow. for example, trying to control that, those economics is widely different, difficult. it's in a lot of companies, countries have given up, which is why you see a slow but steady acceptance of crypto currency, outright bands, they never work, right? they're never and they're not going to, they're not going to remain. and i'm 100 percent certain that if, if we went to morocco right now, would be able to find some big point somewhere. in fact, i could carry this thing with me, which is a, this is crazy, a wallet. i could carry this in a morocco and buy and sell coin pretty easily. indeed, i mean, in general,

i just bring you in there to talk about security because that is being called into question. and in the briefing, that's i got before this program, you talk of quantum computers coming into effect and then having a very big influence on the whole business itself. yes. so in 2015, the national security just in the us after snowden revelation made an announcement followed by a nice national institute standard and technology. megan maida worldwide announcement, or getting proposals for so called post quantum primitives or pizza systems that are basically secure against the strong quantum computer will be, will be invented. and last july,

the 3rd round happened and the and asked the final is of the, of the competition that are included in the space cryptography and code based cryptography and cryptography. and so each coins or crypt current are somehow should be, i kept mentioning about more research has to be done and so to, to attract the trust of the government. because if people that, you know, the word is going more stuff. i just need one very brief question then to tv shows amsterdam, what do you say to the skeptics like warren buffet, isla muscular mosque was singing the praises of bitcoin just a few years ago. now he's pulling back a little bit. sure. and then he has been also vocal in thing that, you know, maybe it's not too bad after all, and you may have some financial interest behind you too. it's very hard to,

to read what's happening. but if you move a little bit and you look at the state level, what you see that there is a tension between trying to keep control and also trying to get lock of users and people involving a system. we also provide security. and so that tension is being expressed by the european central bank. they have been quite vocal that they're all looking for the best way to design to do to euro. but i just want to make it clear that the end game of all that is not just to, to give a crypto currency, but it's to own the infrastructure for tomorrow, world's transaction. and if a states manages that is a critical currency will be adopted by all the states. it might be the most important economy power ever old by any governments, because they will control any transaction happening everywhere. we shall see. what does happen though, that we have to have it, i'm afraid to buy shrapnel amsterdam de la. i'm come by in london and john bigs in new york. thank you so much for joining us on this edition of inside story and thank you for watching as well. you can see all the while previous programs anytime by visiting our website at amazon dot com and for further discussion gateway

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