more important abused by these apps are owned by foreign interests. this does not mean however, that we chat and the app tick tock, which is very popular here in the u. s. are off the hook, as it were, a review could determine that these apps are not respecting privacy, norms and laws of the united states, and they could still then be of permanently banned from use in the united states. but for right now, they are continuing to be available while the u. s. government conducts this review . ah, this is out there. these are the top stories and to palestinian intelligence officers have been killed by israeli forces during an incursion in the city of geneva. the occupied west bank also reports in israeli officer, was killed in exchange of fire during the operation. us president joe biden has

arrived in the u. k. and his 1st official trip abroad since taking office during the day visit to europe by the will take part in g 7 and nato summit. laws that meets with russian president vladimir putin. i'm going to communicate that there are consequences to rely, violating the sovereignty of democracies in the united states in europe and elsewhere. i'm going to be clear that the trans atlantic alliance will remain vital, vital source of strength for u. k. europe and the united states. can make sure there's no doubt as whether the united states will rise in defense of our most deeply held values and our fundamental interest. a russian court has outlawed political organizations linked to jailed opposition leader. lexi nevada, me labeling them as extremist me as nevada with allies cannot run in september parliamentary elections. the rocky army says a bass at baghdad. international airport has been hit by at least one rocket. it's

near the capital and is used by u. s. military aircraft. in a separate attack, military official say at least 3 rockets hit by loud air base, where us contract is, are housed, the you and his water, massive loss of life in east in miramar. if no immediate action is taken, its envoy says mass deaths from starvation, disease, and exposure could occur. entire mongolian, former prime minister, oak, not coral, took, has been elected as president. i must say this will consolidate the power of the ruling mongolian people's party. corals who was forced to resign earlier this year . following protests, crowds improve, take the st, demanding the final results to the presidential election. to nick in the race between left his candidate, frederick astir, and his right wing rival, morty de headlines. more news coming up right off the inside story. bye for now. news.

news. news. news. news. police arrest hundreds around the world in an unprecedented thing. operation weapons, and they control what the implication follow in portland will new tech keep police ahead of criminals? this is inside story. ah, ah, ah. hello, welcome to the show. i'm sammy's a than for 3 years, many in the criminal on the world. so they were operating under the radar,

organized crime, gangs plotted drunk deals, money laundering, even murder. they had no idea detectives were monitoring them the entire time. police arrested hundreds of suspects in a global operation called trojan shields. as the name suggests, it involved a bit of trickery. the gang thought they were messaging on a secure encrypted platform, cold anime, but the app was controlled by a straightly and police and the f. b. i gave law enforcement agents an unprecedented insight into criminal activity as pull brennan explains. the global police rates have included the italian mafia, asian crime syndicates, drug cartels, and illegal motorcycle gangs. more than 800 arrests in 16 different countries, the criminal gangs felt that that communications were encrypted and secure. what they didn't know with the devices called anom, had been developed by the f, b i in collaboration with australian and european police. the criminals using these

devices, believe they were secretly planning crimes far beneath the radar of law enforcement . but in reality, the criminals were not underneath the radar. they were on it. criminal gangs today rely on secure digital communication on the plan was a real slow burner. the 1st handful of compromise unknown devices were quietly supplied to criminals in australia around 18 months ago. and built up a solid reputation among the criminal underworld. then when law enforcement knocked out the rival encroach athens guy e z c networks earlier this year, more than 12 thousands of the compromised anom devices were in circulation all around the globe. multi $1000000.00 international crime in pines were now openly visible to the f. b i and police on in a criminal communicated in 45 languages. about things like dr. again, drugs, arms and explosive ram rate, 80, and guess decks armed robberies. and last but not least,

contract killings the coordinated rates around the globe have found more than $32.00 tons of various illegal drugs. hundreds of firearms and weapons have been recovered, and nearly a $150000000.00 in cash and cryptic currency has been ceased. the 3rd mobile phone encrypted mobile phone network to be compromised by law enforcement within a very short period of time. and i expect others coming. so who can you trust? there are still criminal networks in existence. there are other elicit communications networks still operating. but when police call this operation a watershed moment in global laure inforcement, it's difficult to disagree, pull brennan, al jazeera, the. let's bring our guests into the show now that we have joining us from boston, glen call, former deputy national intelligence office of trends, national threat and the national intelligence council. in cardiff,

michael levy professor of criminology at cardiff university and in alexandria, virginia offer rise a former u. s. department of justice prosecutor, welcome to wal if i could start with glen. so this is quite an innovative and creative approach is almost like something out of a movie. how did it all come about? well i, i don't know the, the, the details of this specific operation. but although it's, it is creative and i'm happy to be able to talk for once about a real triumph and dramatic success of the f. b. i. law enforcement, intelligence, and international cooperation. it's not an unusual operation. in many ways. i have worked closely with the bureau for, for decades, and they can do simply spectacular work. law enforcement is what they do. the agency tends to find fault with them more frequently on intelligence issues

because that's our be able to work in. there are rivalries and so on, but in law enforcement they can be spectacular. at another level, nick land the seems to be quite unprecedented to convince the criminals to actually, well, basically turn themselves into informants. well, that's not surprising. i think the extent is surprising, since this seems to span 17 countries at least, or i forget the exact number, but it's really global with hundreds, 800 people arrested in a whole range of criminal activity. so the scope i think is, is surprising, at least to me, but that there be multilateral law enforcement operations. this is, this happens frequently. and it's, it's a joy, frankly, to be able to speak about one of the successes since all of us, only become aware most of the time of the problems that, that my colleagues sometimes have. so all right is i'm surprised at the scope,

but not at the nature. i think i have the number, it's 18 countries, hundreds of arrests in 18 countries. professor michael, how much of a blow has this dealt to organized crime? is this the knockout punch for them? i'm afraid it's not a knock out punch, but it will have been the blow. and one of the things that i'd like to see going forwards is a lot more analysis of what it tells us about the nature of criminal organization and crime networks and money laundering. networks because it's relatively rare, i accept what was said earlier, but it's relatively rare that you get this kind of knowledge real world as opposed to relayed by informants, insight into the kinds of discussions and offenders were having amongst themselves . and it will lead to

a lot more distrust the technology by offenders. and in that respect to say, it's a punch, but we have yet to see what impact they will have on criminal markets. the terrific going foresman triumph. but and it's a very unusual in terms of scale but, but whether it will really stop that many more drugs getting on the street so that many forwards from that. and then it's already disrupted some killings. and that's the thing for sure. but the longer term impacts on markets. we haven't yet know about also, how much insight has it given authorities into the world of global crime organized crime. i mean, as professor michael said, it's rare that you have this sort of level of direct access, you know,

not going through. i mean, i mean, i guess in the old days, law enforcement would work maybe for years just to plant one in former or informant inside the network. and now suddenly you have a lot of people giving you 1st hand what they're talking about. a new level of insight. yeah, you have all the details. you have all the details. you don't have to fill in the gaps and often when you're building the federal prosecutor, you building huge cases. you have to fill in a lot of the details that you think that are there. i think one of the most interesting aspects of this is they closed the trap. now i would like to know why they closed the trap and i, i'm speculating, but it's probably because they have something really big that happened. because this would be an incredible tool to be able to use and continue to use. and just because you can, it's very prosecute each case that comes into your trap. there's other law enforcement tools that you can use in order to make this effective. for instance, you can take little bits and pieces of the information you gather and you can

trickle it out to different law course agencies across the world. but because they close the entire loop on this, i would suspect there is something major that happened where they knew that they wanted to kind of lay it out or maybe it was, it was reached at some point. it was going to come out that this was going on. i think one of the most unique aspects of this is exactly what we're getting into. is that all right, professor michael. wonder what that something go ahead faster. i think it was probably the security of that bridge, but it was also that the missions in some of the jurisdictions were expiring and i think they wanted to do a big concerted push, which is what's generated message. that's an interesting i am, i am sure there are people that are disappointed about that. i think that a lot of people that i'm sure one of those to keep going. this is

a very unique and impressed. we've been tricking bad guys for a long time. i remember working on a case will be, you know, basically told people they want a prize and all they do is show up and claim it. and it was just warrants for their arrest and they all showed up and we arrested them. but it was interesting to see the scope of this. it's quite impressive. glenda. he's a maybe along those lines. a statement that's been made by some of the australian officials was to the fact that, hey we, we always knew that there was going to come a particular point a day when we'd need to shut this down from your experience in an intelligence work, shall we say what does that, what impose is that expiry date? is it a breach, or is it a expiry of your ability or some license or warrant? well warrants is certainly the case. sometimes an issue for the law enforcement people west. so for, for us and the intelligence community pure purely intelligence community. but like

our colleagues share a moment ago when i 1st heard about this, one of my initial reactions was, well, lot of people are not going to be happy. no, no, until opperation operations officer ever wants to reveal the source or the method because then it is compromised and you can't use it again. so there are, there were compelling reasons. i think a couple were mentioned such as there are, there might have been events that needed to be stopped and can only be done so by acting or warrants were expiring. or there might have been freedom of information requests that came into play. i don't know but, but the reasons must have been compelling because you wouldn't want to give up this kind of tool. if i could at one point, i think this clearly is a, is a triumph, but like our colleagues have shuttle eco, it's not a, i think, a medium term powerful success. meaningful short term. of course, it's a big problem for the people who have been detained long term. well, you know,

so long as there is a demand, people will find a way to provide a supply. and that fundamental use the issue i, i spoke with the head of our naval forces, coast guard charter narcotics operations for the southern part of the united states . and he told me he had this is a few years ago, 12 ships to cover an area going from i think north carolina to the tip of south america. that's a lot of water to cover with 12 ships. and the head of the car narcotic center, told me one time that all the operations that, that institution in the f b i had done over the years had never materially affected the price of any, any illegal drug on the street. so, so long as there is a demand, people will be creative and will have to use a new iteration of what we just discover. professor michael can they can loan force,

they continue to use this technique going forward. now that the cats out of the bag working they'll have to find a similar own tray. i mean, yeah. so the smooth running of a criminal enterprise, they would want that level of kind of seat as they believe it secret interchange which smoothed the passive offender cooperation. but so i think that creates the opportunity for the insertion of this kind of technique. so people on both sides will be searching both to insert it and to stop it being like the sting operations that were mentioned earlier. that they have a disruptive effect for a while. and then if you like the needs criminal collaboration generates its own demand. and if the authorities can produce the

supply, then this sort of thing might happen again. so this might continue also, are there any civil liberties issues to think about here when you're traditionally doing, maybe showing, call it traditional law enforcement sort of spying and ease dropping. you might need to get, you know, clearance from a judge, a court order. you might need, if you trying to use one of the existing apps to go through the company. what's that viber and say, hey, can you give us access? but if you own the app yourself, and if you push it out for winder and why they use the sand, the lack of oversight, you. yeah, i mean, this is a debate that we have to have him when you volunteer and you avail yourself to an app, you do lose some of those rights. one of the issues that i kind of see is that, you know, our laws, especially united states, are really designed and they're still written for the old, you know, trap and trace and title 3 wiretaps where you're plug in all the operators.

literally plugging, you know, a plugged into different holes in order to connect mines, and that is the way that our title 3, which is our wire tap law and other laws were drafted. and many countries have kind of model their laws after ours. one of the issues with this is because technology has changed so quickly is that we don't really have the civil liberty trail. it's not really keeping up. i don't know if there was any judicial interference or oversight over this, this law. now there will be on the prosecutor said something, glimpse that that was really profound, was to talk about, you know, the procedures and the, the source and method is really one of the things that they, that they want to protect. there's always that tension between intelligence and law enforcement because intelligence once protect source methods, law enforcement, the good bad guys in jail. and that tension is usually where civil liberties comes to play. and we have classified information procedures, which allows us to do certain things behind the veil. but at the end of the day,

if we want to put bad people in prison in the united states, we have to release discovery. and i think one of the things about this effort, because now it's in the open, they can actually do discovery and because they can do discovery, they can actually start putting people in prison and that is key. now, the civil liberty aspect of it. we're constantly having that, that interplay between civil liberties, technology and the way that bad guys do business and it's, it's a very hard race to keep up with. i do enjoy the fact that for once i'm reading a cyber story where we're on the office of instead of be on the defensive, which is the last year. all it's been has been defensive. so this is, this is great news regards. i'd like to add a point on the civil liberties. if i could please go ahead glen into conventional wisdom in the united states and everywhere really certainly for 20 years. and perhaps for, for a lot of that has been that the us intelligence community,

specifically this is a concern to me from my career. of course, it has been is a threat to the civil liberties and has broken the law and ignored them, flaunted its power as opposed to its obligations and repeated independent analyses of the national security agencies. those are the people who, who tap the phones and capture radio transmissions and so on, or the intelligence officers and the ca, who have human operations, or do physical penetration or facility say, have somehow infringed civil liberties. but all of the studies have shown that the dozens of millions of instances, of taps of conversations or something. i think there were 80 instances that they broke the law and 75 or something of those were inadvertent

and then rectify, rectify, they were expunged or not used in any way. i can tell you from 1st things when i talked about the known and analyzed cases though, right? oh, well that, that dramatically mischaracterized is actually not intentionally the extent of the analysis. the, i think it was the congress of the department justice or an independent investigator. all of the above looked at several of the national security agencies programs and found that actually they did not in any, almost any case, almost any case break the law. what they did was, and this is objectionable to many, but it's not your legal was they would capture transmission say, so you call me or i call somebody in europe, but they did not use it. it's sitting similar to getting into message. it can only be access if there is probable cause. alright, can you, let's come back. i mean,

that's a big discussion about the capture of method dancer in the picture. you can or cannot form about someone and how intrusive that is and how legal or not. but professor, i'm wondering, does it make sense? i mean, if law enforcement was already putting this program together, might you be tempted to think that they may have also thought about stage 2 already? there may be all the apps which are already out there. should we assume that this was the only one that they thought to put together? well, i mean, that's the lurking down the hope to hoping to keep in mind that the offenders so that they won't use the next one unless they have it, in which case we not forget one of the ride, the last school sky global and the authorities rated that and close it down. that drove more offenders towards the more unknown one. exactly. you know,

the authorities will only fit by on the what, who we call the bad guys to spy on suspected criminals? yeah, i mean that, that is, that seems to be the object to, i mean, as i understand it, the f b, i did not use this in a widespread away within the united states. and that's one of the reasons why this is that should be international case. because of concerns about powers and, and interested surveillance, giving out $12010.00 fed. inconceivable. somebody might give one out to, i don't know how i missed it. so somebody that's not directly involved in criminal activity. yeah. given the limitation rules. ok, let perfect michael, finish the thought, and then we'll come to you offer given the utility,

the very limited utility of these particular handsets, which didn't have any other realistically, any other apps on them. it wouldn't have been much use to a sexual partner except for communicating with one of the principal. so i didn't think that was that much of the risk in this. all right, go ahead offer. yeah, we have members. i mean, i could teach limitation for the d a and f b i agents. and there are strict rules about how you minimize conversations that are not relevant out. but the thing that actually does most of the protection who has those strict rules is this. you talk with probably just the over the finance it is an eternal rule, but i was going to say that the most protection comes from just a man. ours. we do not have the hours and the day to listen to conversation between

lovers and my experiences. when you're, when you're here in conversation between lovers or attorneys and their, their clients, you know, they turn the conversation. it's not just because of innovation is because they, they're actively trying to get evidence in order to proceed with intelligence in cases. and they just don't have the time to listen to all that. i mean, there is a body on the end of every single one of these conversations, reading these things. and then we'll talk about international, then you have all the translators involved. we do have some computer programs that can help out look for buzzwords, but i'll tell you bad guys are really sophisticated. i mean, i cannot tell you the coping system that the cartels would use in order to come up and talk about their business in a way that we could recognize. but at the end of the day, man, ours plays a huge part into ensuring that we are on the things that are important to us. okay, glenn, man, alice internal rules that might be, you know, it might work well in theory. is there a need to have some independent oversight? if this is a thing of the future that you know,

not only criminals are going to have to go deeper and deeper into this kind of technology, but law enforcement will. is that a need to have some independent oversight? well is there is, there's always a dilemma in intelligence. how do you keep something secret and have an outside oversight which is required for objectivity and fairness and the in the west system the we have twisted ourselves into not trying to solve this dilemma, but i think it's done pretty well. actually one. all the institutions truly are profoundly law abiding and if an officer breaks the law or does something questionable that he or she will at variance or suffer. and how is this ascertained? because there are inspector general's who travel around to from station to station office to office all the time and they conduct their reports and they are they are a powerful and they do their jobs very well. supervisors will have huge

consequences if they have allowed something to occur one little and i think slightly different perspective on some of that of course. so because all of that is sort of internal relying, isn't it? well, the only oversight outside ultimate, these, the department of justice and that only, i don't mean to minimize the department of justice and our elected officials, the oversight committees who will then who are empowered to take all sorts of steps to make sure that people like me don't break the law and it really is a rare occurrence or have one quick and only be a moment running out of time. yeah, go ahead. i'm going to tell me if, if an american name or person was heard on a, an intercept of a conversation, and we didn't have a warrant, we literally had to stop the, the, the listening, we could not do it. and so even if we gave up information,

we just couldn't do it. all right, and it's a really fascinating discussion and i'm sure we could go on for another hour, but we are out of time. so let's thank i guess from should be back anyway guys to talk about this in the not too distant future. let's thank glen call michael levy and also riser and thank you to for watching. you can see the show again and all of our previous programs any time by visiting our website out just a dot com for further discussion head over to our facebook page that facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. can also join the conversation on twitter. handle is at a j inside story from me, sammy's down, and the whole team here for now to go by the news

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landfill, harmonic witness documentary on now. you want to help save the world. needs into your elbow. in the hello nick lock into the top stories here are now to 0, and 2 palestinian intelligence officers have been killed by israeli forces. it happened during an incursion in the city of jeanine in the occupied westbank. israel military has denied reports. one of its officers were killed a 3rd, palestinian was injured and it was in a critical condition. us president joe biden is arrived in the u. k. when it's 1st official trip abroad since taking office.