unimportant by product, which the country used to import from the same cocoa beans, it exports. the newly acquired skill is expected to drastically reduce the import of finished cocoa project, usually brought in at a high cost. despite the inward looking measures, few expect output from the world's biggest co producer to fall instead of issues or hoping to boost production far beyond the over 2000000 tons harvested in 2020. how many res algebra i be, john. ah . alright, talk a quick check of the headlines here and i'll just say are taliban fighters of captured afghan histones main border crossing to just on raising fears and growing instability of a recent military gains by the group. the un says it's taken more than 50 districts in the past month. iran's president elect abraham raise. he says he worked to defend its interesting negotiations with foreign powers. the u. s. s. called his

when in friday election, manufactured, which iran denies us senate democrats have seen their key voting rights been blocked by republicans. democrats say the election reform package contained measures to counteract laws, passed and republican lead states, which restrict voting access. but republicans argue the bill infringes on states rights and call it a partisan power grab. mike has more now from washington, dc. it was a part of that vote completely on party lines. republicans had been adamant they would oppose this bill to a person. democrats were adamant that they would pay for it to a person. however, there had been some debate earlier in the day one senator holding on for some changes, but he eventually agreed to join the boat, giving a total democratic block in terms of supporting this measure. but with that kind of

bust in place, which means that 60 boats are required for the motion to go to the bait. it is now over at this particular point in time. the therapy as prime minister has branded monday's election a success despite many voters in the country is conflict zones being left out of the process. i'll be on it says the pole was easier at 1st attempted free and fair elections. but his vote, his weight provisional results, some opposition groups are crying foul. they say ballot boxes were tempered with this stuff attacked. some of the most vaccinated countries which relied heavily on chinese made jobs are experiencing a resurgence in coven 19 outbreaks. a report by the new york times shows countries out pacing the us in vaccination rates such as bahrain, chile, mongolia, rank among the world's top 10 worst outbreaks, and its res, concerned over there, effectiveness on cobra. 19 various those are the headlines and is continues here. now to 0, after inside story station, thanks for watching life and i'm in

the western nation slap coordinated sanctions on beller, rose for repressing human rights. these penalties are increasingly used to punish countries behavior, but do they work? and what are the diplomatic alternatives? this is inside story. ah ah. hello and welcome to the program. i'm hammer, jim, jim, bella. luce is facing new sanctions from the west. the u. u. k. u. s. in canada. say they're presenting a united front against president alexander lucas shameka for repressing human

rights. the action follows the force, diversion of a plane to arrest a bela russian opposition journalist and the crackdown on protest against lucas shank is disputed election when last year. the new measures include travel bands and freezing the assets of people close to the president. the bel erosion exiled opposition leaders, atlanta to kind of sky says they send a clear and powerful message was conveyed to missed chicken sky. you did have the union remain ready to support a future democracy arose with a comprehensive plan of economic support of up to 3 billions for democracy. bill was reporting it were net help right now through the sanctions. person has decided to de economic, the really cited, shown and continue put in pressure on the location of regime the department of state and the department of treasury,

designated 62 bell russian individuals and 5 entities and response to continuing repression and bell. ruth, importantly we did this alongside our partners and allies and with these coordinated actions on both sides of the atlanta, we are demonstrating our deep and shared concern regarding the lucas shank machines . activities sanctions are increasingly being used to punish nations for legit bad behavior. a recent study says their use has gone up significantly in the past 4 years. the u. s. and you have targeted russian officials and entities with sanctions over a range of issues. they include the jailing of opposition leader alexis only, and the 2014 annexation of crimea. they've been punishing china for rights abuses in hong kong and shin jang. beijing recently passed a law to counter foreign sanctions and the fuse pressure. the european block, the u. s. and other western capital sanctioned officials linked to me and mars genta following the february military coup. and iran economy has been suffering

after years of un sanctions. the 2 nations are involved and talks that can see some that some measures lifted as part of reviving the 2015 nuclear deal. the alright, let's bring and i guess in oslo. glenn decent professor of international relations at the university of south eastern norway inverse berg o rick brook, nor a professor of political science at stanford university in berlin. and in washington, dc, laurence cor, but former assistant secretary of defense and senior fellow at the center for american progress, a warm welcome to you all or rick, let me start with you today from your perspective. do sanctions actually work? are they effective? well, if we ask a normative question, if something works we need an arm. and if in the particular case of banner rose, one would expect the sanctions would lead to a regime change than the clear answer is no. because russia is backing what look

are saying? when and therefore we can't expect a small use of the particular tool to be enough for regime change. but it also tends a signal to the people in the country that they are not left alone. it tends to signal to autocratic leaders that they don't get away with violations of international law. and so it depends on each case, we can say yes they were or they don't. lawrence, are there diplomatic alternatives to sanctions? and if so, what are they? well basically, sanctions are used because you don't want to, for example, use military force. so in that sense it's better. as my colleague just mentioned, it can have some impact. but by and large, it really doesn't change the behavior unless it's done by the whole international community. here with bella rouge, you have a lot of the european countries,

but if the whole international community united, even including some of you know, bell roosters allies that might have a have an effect. but it's going to work. it's going to take quite a while for it to change the behavior. glenn, when it comes specifically to bella. ruth, you know, sanctions have been in place against alexander lucas shameka for most of his leadership. have they actually made a difference? and how is this latest round of sanctions by the e u. the u. s. canada and others different than previous sanctions? and do you believe that they'll actually make a difference as time? i know not really, and i agree with the former speaker that sanctions only use it works if everyone gets behind them. now the problem often is excessive use of sanctions by the west. it to some extent in the remnant of the unit or area when the entire world was relying on the economy of the us and the west. however,

as the international system becomes normal, the polar, we see that the continued use of function. so in the case on the bellows with you not to have alternative. so russia was mentioned now the use of this long lasting or permanent sanctions, especially on issues where the sanction country of little athlete will be able to make concession simpler results in the sanction country. learn live without those sanctions imposed on them. and so obviously russia is not likely to get time to sanction, simply because russia was also the sanctions. it's still present about the less and i mean the key less from the past 7 years to be at the russian sanctions did not result in the growing russia economy are making them capitulated. the west director told russia we wanted to comment to the east on strategic partner with china to reduce its own ability by cutting reliance on western industries technologies, transportation corridors, banks,

payment systems and us. and we see the same with iran. they're also responding to sanctions by lining themselves closer with china and russia. and now we see the letters for us to do the same. so i think this will not have the intended effect, but again, we can ask what the fact is if it's promote democracy or is that resume change? because as we saw in ukraine and ga democracy regime change is not always the same thing. and often it can even contradict each other or if we look more broadly at the idea of sanctions, if they don't get the intended result, if that is not achieved, how do you gauge success? what is the next best outcome? but it is also a matter of credibility if we have a high moral tone of what the west stands for, that there are norms and values and the supports democracy not only within the european union or the united states, but also in opposition rules and the civil society in countries that are under the

oppression of an autocratic regime, and things happen like a blogger is kidnapped from an ab lane that belongs to a european union company. then you cannot just ignore this and say, well, we don't know if sanctions will lead to something. it is a matter of credibility whether you let autocratic regimes get away with it or if she sent a signal, then you can also be very specific in the targeted group. is that the bodies off autocrat? is it the norman tour of the supper, specifically from taylor maids personalized sanctions? or is that something that makes the whole country suffer and then you can trigger in the worst case? what norman chomsky is calling about kind of mass destruction that people die because of the economic consequences and it causes poverty all over the country's

lawrence. if we can look more specifically at the us for a moment when it comes to how the u. s. has imposed sanctions on various countries and governments over the past few years. has there been a shift in the, the american strategy? are they trying more and more to make sure that they don't target huge sectors of society and the economy so that just regular citizens aren't as effective in that they target? instead, more specifically government officials, whether it be their, their wealth, their personal wealth, or the freezing of their assets, or imposing travel bands. well, they are trying to use more targeted sanctions. the problem is, if you're trying to change or countries behavior, you have to target the whole country. you know, for example, you're trying to get a ran not to develop nuclear weapons. well, if you just target a couple of people at the top,

it's not going to change the you're hoping that by undermining the whole economy in the country, the people there will put pressure on them. unfortunately, that hasn't worked. the only case, i know we're really work was against iraq after the 1st gulf war. it really kept them from developing weapons of mass destruction, which unfortunately we didn't realize till we went till we went in there. and you also have to realize that there is an economic impact on your own citizens. the sanctions on iran are driving up the price of oil for everybody, including it. you know, people in the united states when they pay more for gas, because the iranian oil is not getting to the global markets. and as my colleague said, it's not completely done by the international community. you've got china and russia are making arrangements with the ran. it actually helps these other countries who

are not always your eyes, glen, from your vantage point. would you say that these so called targeted sanctions are more or less successful than the sanctions that have been imposed in years past that more broadly affect wide sectors of countries economies? well, i think they won't have that much effect anyway, because as i mentioned previously, these are areas where there is not much to do where the sanction country doesn't have much room to maneuver. and again, they're part of the problem goes back to what was said previously, that something has to be done with the send the signal. the problem is that in the west we often post sanctions under the language of democracy and human rights. we often consider it to be very morally righteous, however, by the countries received to a great extent, instruments to post testimony. so just with the language that we currently use, this idea that the width has to change the behavior. so we take on this very

subject object relationship where the teacher supposed discipline the rest of the problem. there is, is there much rejected entire legitimacy, my country such as china and russia, because the west ends to lecture on various things from human rights, to cyber or in the bellows variation rules. however, rarely about enforcing common rules that are applied consistently, brother, that's usually rules at the west used to police others but not apply to itself. so the, the case of bella was, i think any even targeted sanctions it will get around it. and it's simply because other countries will try to help them out. now, we were on the case of louis, i'm just, you know, point out that the sanctions are not deemed to be legitimate. i, many of the larger countries are mainly russia and china simply because these are not rules that are part of equally to everyone else. keep in mind that in 2003 european countries force the landing ellis believe in precedence,

airplane because of the u. s. government because they wanted to arrest one of their was the lowest. and we're snowden. and we have a similar case in 2016 when you came to the final course of the russian airliner to make a u turn. and so they could rest arrest. and i might and critic again, no outrage, there's no sanction. so it's this very selective application of these rules which is therefore resulting and becoming see images, which is why a lot of this larger countries now are simply refusing to play ball. and instead supporting the bellows, even though they either brush or china, neither of them are really happy with lucas ankle government. still, they refused to play along these rules, or i can look to me like you were reacting to some what glen was saying there, did you want to jump in? well, we don't need to go that as far as looking at the west that behaves like morally superior autocratic regimes. we had

a similar situation between the united states and germany on the case of the pipeline that connect germany directly with russia, north seems to the united states and the congress in particular, punish companies that are involved in building this pipeline. it did not lead to regime change in germany, but it massively affected public opinion and it put germany in a very defensive position when it comes to package deals in which germany was always reminded that it is willing to sacrifice a homogenous position in european energy policy. and when finally by and stopped sanctioning germany on that particular case, it was a major relief and everyone was willing to give in on other unrelated subjects. lawrence, you know, already in this conversation, we have spoken about china, we're talking about russia. we've spoken about iran and other countries. i want to talk for a moment about me and more because since the military coup in february,

since the military took control of me and mar, you've seen the us, britain, the you, they have impose several waves of sanctions against the john to their they have targeted specifically, leaders of the military. and yet the military hasn't changed it's behavior in any kind of significant way. they seem to be relying on support from china, from russia, from the, as the on countries, from your perspective, have the sanctions against me and more and against the jump there have any meaningful impact. ironically the big impact is on the people of name are not the leaders because as you pointed out, they can get help from china and russia. a lot of times countries do this and i'll speak for the united state. they do it because it makes them feel good. they've got to do something. my goodness, what happened to me on being mar,

they had the all the, the role of the, the elected government. and so we got to do something. so you do it. the more countries you can get to join you, the better, the better it is, the potential of having a long term impact. but by and large, it's a substitute for taking war dramatic action. it's more of a symbol than anything else in most in most cases. going, you know, in your previous answer, you mentioned russia and russia of course, has been sanctioned by the us for among other things, election, meddling and cyber attacks. are these making any kind of a difference? no, not really teaching russia to learn without to live without the united states. again, linking itself closer to, to china. because again, then the problems tend to be the same. the sanctions are largely unilateral, that if they're imposed by one side to dictates or to change the behavior of

another and then not use to enforce rules based system. but it's a system, but they're all supplies the same, same or one. and that's the main reason why russia not going to budge, and that's actually just learning to live with it. so i don't i don't think it's going to make much of a difference even if they're escalated as again, you mentioned cyber and human rights. the common denominator, all of this is that it's only in reference to what russia has done is never, never goes to other way. it never addresses the united states hunger activities to never address as human rights issues in, in the united states. so it's always this instrument for sovereign and qualities, one side to police the other. and under those circumstances it's been completely legitimate in moscow, which is why they refused to listen to it. and instead to just find the economy to inoculate themselves from further,

pressure already seems more and more we just hear about sanctions being imposed again and again the this just seems to fill the headlines week after week. so i ask you, have we gotten to the point where sanctions are simply being overused? well, there is no such thing like a perfect pre owned for how we use different tools. no matter if it's the policy or if it cannot make sanctions. i think it really depends on a case by case i'm now in a united germany and the wall came down because you cannot make embargo on socialist countries. they were cut off from access to technology, and that made them. he cannot meekly implode. and that was the beginning of the end, and he cannot make experiment called socialism. so it's not completely useless and it depends on the circumstances. of course, i wouldn't loppy in favor off if you can impose pours on others in the name of

whatever, please do it or you should back. i think it really depends on the case to discuss under what conditions it makes sense in connection with other tools. lawrence, you know, when it comes to the west imposing sanctions more often in some ways, you know, from your point of view, does this not just encourage the countries that are being hit with sanctions to just look to other countries and strike deals with them? i offer as an example, iran finding deals with china were venezuela finding deals with rush. i mean, what do you say? well, again, unless it's the whole international community that does it, then obviously you're going to have nations take care of their own best interest. and if they are ordered or talk, receives and don't have much pressure from the people, they can minimize the impact by going to other countries and even what the impact

of the u. s. flood sanctions had, will not get the people to rise up. and i think again, it's a way to say, well, we didn't just ignore this, we put sanctions on and then you can move on because you can't solve all the world's problems. you are not willing to use military force. we have sanctions on cuba for over 50 years, and we didn't get rid of castro. so this whole idea that you know, way it's going to achieve that subject is really something that needs to be analyzed as you're doing today. so people realize the limitations of glenn, thanks and you know, they can also be used by regimes who are being targeted to rally domestic support as well. correct. i mean, even unpopular leaders can use sanctions that have imposed against them and their governments as a way to boost support domestically. correct?

yes. so, so they developed interest in common that came before this idea that the supposed to rally the people against and leaders. and again, often in the way through quite open that the objective is to put the pressure on the people. so they will tell us the leadership, however, often in that she opposite. so, for example, the thanks because russia were quite interesting because the economy had a lot of problems in the company should have diversified. and indeed, the government, when they went through economic problems, they should have had to take some responsibility for the difficulties. however, at the same time, in 2014, you have the bama coming on the tv and saying, you know, way we destroyed the economy. it was us the reason why russia families, of course, it's already is up. so let it take the blame off the government and you also create a lot of resentment towards external power. but again, it also has to, the fax is always have to be linked to something. if you want to change behavior, destroying the economy can't be the purpose. if you want to change the pavior

successes define, you have to see whether or not this is possible. and with the case of bellows, it's not, it's pretty much always tied to receive change. so i think it's not doing the specific common rules which under the international system should operate under and same with russia there's, there's no, there's no, nothing really rush i can do. it's not going to seed me. so it's, it's the people that actively support what the government has done and they blamed economic difficulties on foreign powers. so it's intention of rolling the people against thrown government. it's not really working, lawrence, you know, i asked glenn about the unintended consequences of sanctions just now and it looked like you also wanted to jump in. so please go ahead. well, again, i was going to say there are these on intended consequences because it can allow these dictators to blame the us lad,

or the international community for the problems they have at home. and it hurt your own people. it can basically strengthen these regimes that you're trying to change . the great are sanctions work best against people you're working with. they're dependent on you for foreign aid. then the sanctions can work, but they're usually not your enemies. lawrence. let me also ask you, you know, we've seen countries like russia and china start retaliated more when sanctions are imposed on them. do you think going forward we're going to see more countries retaliate when sanctions are imposed against them. very definitely, particularly with china, which is, you know, such a fast growing economy and what we, the united states depends on for a lot of supplies that we get that keeps our economy going. so yes, they are going to do because the united states global economic position is not a strong one, was it's still strong,

but it's not as strong as that one was. so i think you're going to to see that i think with the north stream pipeline, one of the reasons we did not stop that from germany is basically be cause we know that we need the help of the germans to deal with the chinese. all right, we've run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thank you so much to all of our guest, glenn decent, or rick bruckner, and lawrence corp. and thank you to for watching. you can see this and all of our previous programs again, anytime by visiting our website, algebra dot com and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter. our handle is at a inside story. for me, mohammed jim tillman, the whole thing here. bye. for now. the news

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trying to close. extrapolate that across the country. and the spread of corona virus appears far wider than anyone thought. me the hello, i'm darren, jordan and dough home with a quick reminder, the top stories here on al jazeera taliban fighters of captured the chemist on main border crossing with 2 just on raising fears of grand stability of a recent military gains by the group. the un says it's taking more than 50 districts in the past month. iran's president elect abraham raise. he says, he'll work to defend. it's interesting to go see ations with foreign powers failure . the u. s. has called his when in friday election, manufactured, which iran denies. the poll so record.