up with the restrictions, but the government wants to hold the games with spectators. i don't understand them came we've waited a year and we should just go ahead with a stadium full of spectators coach so that there's not enough information about people coming from outside japan and if they've been vaccinated, i'm concerned the virus will spread further than i as official olympic posters are unveiled. there are still so many unanswered questions. but finally, the biggest one is now seemingly resolved. the games will go on. mcbride, al jazeera ah . deadlines on jazeera, dozens of people have been reportedly killed grafton as try kate, a busy market in ethiopia, in northern te gray region. how for workers in the village of took olga have told the associated press news agency that soldiers bronk medical teams from traveling

to the c. a. ron has condemned the u. s. seizure of 33 media websites, calling it a breach of freedom of speech. washington says the science violates sanctions against iran and accused of spreading this information. meanwhile, iran says it stopped and attempted active sabotage against the building of its atomic energy organisation doesn't entail on with more that the officials are remain very tight lipped about the details of this attempt at attack on a building which we understand to be in the city of carriage, that's just west of the capital terror on the attempt to attack took place on early wednesday morning. we still don't know what form the attack took, but the officials have said that they have managed to foil the attack and they are still investigating and looking for perpetrators. course this is not the 1st time we've seen this kind of attempt to sabotage and the previous time we saw such an attack that was successful was on the nuclear side of the towns. that last april,

the secretary of state fairs is crucial that libya holds national elections in december as the only way to ensure peace and stability. antony blanket made the comment for head of a conference in berlin with james to reduce finance in the north african country. hong kong for democracy newspaper apple daily has confirmed it will close on thursday after it's assets were frozen. is chief columnist has been arrested. the 6 staff member detained this month under bay james national security law. they're accused of colluding with foreign forces. man mars depos leader on fans or cheese facing a new trial on wednesday. she is charged with violating the colonial era official secrets act, which carries a heavy jail term of up to 14 years. and more than 20 cases of a highly infectious called the 1900 strain have been found in 3 states in india. it's closely related to the delta very 1st detected their health official say it's for variant of concern. those are the headlines on al jazeera. we'll have more news

for you after high story to stay with this. me. ah, ah. ah, the western nation slap coordinated sanctions on beller, rose for repressing human right. these penalties are increasingly used to punish countries behavior. but do they work? and what are the diplomatic alternatives? this is inside story. ah, ah, ah. hello and welcome to the program. i'm hammer, jim, jim, bella, luce is facing new sanctions from the west. the

e u. u k. u s. in canada. say they're presenting a united front against president alexander lucas shameka for repressing human rights. the action follows the force diversion of a plane to arrest a belive russian opposition journalist and the crackdown on protest against lucas shank is disputed election when last year. the new measures include travel bands and freezing the assets of people close to the president, the bel erosion exiled opposition leaders, atlanta to kind of sky says they send a clear and powerful message. was conveyed to mr. chicken sky. yeah. did the union remain ready to support the future, the lucrative arose with a comprehensive plan of economic support of up to 3 billions. furthermore, credibility was supporting it. we need help right now through the sanctions person has decided to they cannot to really cited sean

and continue putting pressure on their lucas as go regime the department of state and the department of treasury, designated 62 bell russian individuals and 5 entities and response to continuing repression and bella ruth, importantly we did this alongside our partners and allies and with these coordinated actions on both sides of the atlanta, we are demonstrating our deep and shared concern regarding the lucas shank machines . activities sanctions are increasingly being used to punish nations for legit bad behavior. a recent study says their use has gone up significantly in the past 4 years. the u. s. and e, you have targeted russian officials and entities with sanctions over a range of issues. they include the jailing of opposition liter alexis only, and the 2014 annexation of crimea. they've been punishing china for rights abuses in hong kong. and shin jang, raging recently passed the law to counter foreign sanctions and the fuse pressure

therapy and block the u. s and other western capital sanctioned officials linked to me in mars, john to following the february military, coo and iran economy has been suffering after years of un sanctions. the 2 nations are involved and talks that can see some that some measures lifted as part of reviving the 2015 nuclear deal. the alright, let's bring and i guess in oslo. glenn decent professor of international relations at the university of southeastern norway inverse berg o rick brook, nor professor of political science at stanford university in berlin. and in washington, dc, laurence cor, former assistant secretary of defense and senior fellow at the center for american progress, a warm welcome to you all. or rick, let me start with you today from your perspective. do sanctions actually work? are they effective? well, if we ask a normative question, if something works we need a norm. and if in the particular case of banner rose,

one would expect that sanctions would lead to a regime change than the clear answer is no. because russia is backing what look are saying when and therefore, because expects a small use of a particular tool to be enough for regime change. but it also tends a signal to the people in the country that they are not left alone. it tends to signal to autocratic leaders that they don't get away with violations of international law. and so it depends on each case, we can say yes they were or they don't. lawrence, are there diplomatic alternatives to sanctions? and if so, what are they? well basically, sanctions are used because you don't want to, for example, use military force. so in that sense it's better. as my colleague just mentioned, it can have some impact. but by and large, it really doesn't change the behavior unless it's done by the whole international

community. here what bella rules, you have a lot of the european countries, but if the whole international community united, even including some of you know, bella, roosters allies that might have a, have an effect. but it's going to work is going to take quite a while for it to change the behavior. glenn, when it comes specifically to bella. ruth, you know, sanctions have been in place against alexander lucas. shank, a for most of his leadership. have they actually made a difference and how is this latest round of sanctions by the e u. the u. s. canada and others different than previous sanctions? and do you believe that they'll actually make a difference as time? i know not really, and i agree with the former speaker that sanctions only use works if everyone gets behind them. now the problem often this excessive use of sanctions by the west.

it's to some extent in the remnant of the unit or area when the entire world was relying on the economy of the us and the west. however, the international system becomes normal, the polar, we see that the west continued use of banks of less. so with the case on the bellows with you not to have alternative. so russia was mentioned now the use of this long lasting or permanent sanctions, especially on issues where the sanction country of little athlete will be able to make concession simpler results in the sanction country. learn live without those sanctions imposed on them. and so obviously russia is not likely to get time to sanction simply because the rush i was on the sanctions. it's still percent of our less. and i mean, the key less from the past 7 years to be at the russian sanctions did not result in destroying russian economy or making them capitulated the western russia. we wanted to commit to the east on strategic partner with china,

to reduce its own ability by cutting reliance on western industries technology, transportation corridors, banks, payment systems and us. and we see the same with iran. they're also responding to sanctions by lining themself closer with china. and russia, and now we see the letters for us to do the same. so i think this will not have the intended effect. but again, we can ask what the 2nd is if it's promote democracy or the resume change because as we saw in ukraine and ga democracy regime change is not always the same thing. and often it can even contradict each other. or if we look more broadly at the idea of sanctions, if they don't get the intended result, if that is not achieved, how do you gauge success? what is the next best outcome? but it is also a matter of credibility. if we have a high moral tone of what the west stands for, that there are norms and values and supports democracy not only within the european

union or the united states, but also in opposition rules and the civil society. and countries that are under the oppression of an autocratic regime and things happen like a blogger is kidnapped from an apt lane that belongs to a european union company. then you cannot just ignore this and say, well, we don't know if sanctions will lead to something. it is a matter of credibility whether you lead autocratic regimes get away with it. or if she found a signal, then you can also be very specific in the targeted group. is that the bodies off autocrat? is it the norman tour of the sapir, specifically from taylor maids personalized sanctions? or is that something that makes the whole country suffer and then you can trigger and the worst case, what normal chomsky is calling, what kind of mass destruction that people die because of the economic consequences

and it causes poverty all over the countries. lawrence, if we can look more specifically at the us for a moment when it comes to how the u. s. has imposed sanctions on various countries and governments over the past few years. has there been a shift in the, the american strategy? are they trying more and more to make sure that they don't target huge sectors of society and the economy so that just regular citizens aren't as effective and that they target instead, more specifically, government officials, whether it be their, their wealth, their personal wealth or the freezing of their assets or imposing travel bands. well, they are trying to use more targeted sanctions. the problem this, if you're trying to change your country's behavior, you have to target the whole country. you know, for example, you're trying to get

a ran not to develop nuclear weapons. well, if you just target a couple of people at the top, it's not going to change. you're hoping that by undermining the whole economy in the country, the people there will put pressure on them. unfortunately, that hasn't worked. the only case, i know we're really work was against iraq after the 1st gulf war. it really kept them from developing weapons of mass destruction, which unfortunately we didn't realize till we went till we went in there. and you also have to realize that there is an economic impact on your own citizen. the sanctions on iran are driving up the price of oil for everybody, including it, you know, people in the united states when they pay more for gas because the iranian oil is not getting to the global markets. and as my colleague said, it's not completely done by the international community. you've got china and

russia are making arrangements with the ran. it actually helps these other countries who are not always your allies, glen, from your vantage point. would you say that these so called targeted sanctions are more or less successful than the sanctions that have been imposed in years past that more broadly affect wide sectors of countries economies? well, i think they won't have that much effect anyways, because as i mentioned previously, these are areas where there is not much to do where the sanction country doesn't have much room to maneuver. and again, they're part of the problem goes back to what was said previously that something has to be done. we have to send the signal. the problem is that in the west, we often post sanctions under the language of democracy and human rights. often consider it to be very morally righteous, however, by the country to

a great extent, instruments to testimony. so just with the language that we currently use, this idea that the width has to change the behavior. so we take on this very subject object relationship where the teacher supposed discipline the rest of the problem. there is, is there much rejected entire legitimacy, my country such as china and russia, because the west tends to lecture on various things from human rights, to cyber or in the bellows variation rules. however, it's rarely about enforcing common rules that are applied consistently, brother, it's usually rules at the west used to police others but not apply to itself. so the case on beller was, i think any, even targeted sanctions, it will get around it and simply because other countries will try to help them out . now, we were on the case of a little so just, you know, point out that the sanctions are not deemed to be legitimate. many of the larger countries are mainly russia and china simply because these are not rules that are

part of equally to everyone else. keep in mind that in 2003 european countries force the landing everyone else, the believe in precedence airplane because of the us government because they wanted to arrest one of their was the lowest. and we're snowden. and we have a similar case in 2016 when ukraine threatened to the fighter jets to force the russian airliner to make a u turn. and so they could arrest arrest. and i might and critic again, no outrage. there is no sanction. so is this very selective application of these rules, which is therefore resulting and becoming see images, which is why a lot of this larger countries now are simply refusing to play ball. and instead supporting the bellows, even though it russia, or china. neither of them are really happy with lucas ankle government. still, they refused to play along these rules. or i can look to me like you were reacting to some what glen was saying there, did you want to jump in?

well, we don't need to go that as far as looking at the west that behaves like morally superior autocratic regimes. we had a similar situation between the united states and germany on the case of the pipeline that connect germany directly with russia, north seems to the united states and the congress in particular, punish companies that are involved in building this pipeline did not lead to regime change in germany, but it massively affect the public opinion and it put germany in a very defensive position when it comes to package deals in which germany was always reminded that it is willing to sacrifice a homogenous position in european energy policy. and when finally by and stopped sanctioning germany on that particular case, it was a major relief and everyone was willing to give in on other unrelated subjects. lawrence, you know, already in this conversation, we have spoken about china,

we're talking about russia. we've spoken about iran and other countries. i want to talk for a moment about me and more because since the military coup in february, since the military took control of me and mar, you've seen the us, britain, the you, they have impose several waves of sanctions against the john to their they have targeted specifically, leaders of the military. and yet the military hasn't changed it's behavior in any kind of significant way. they seem to be relying on support from china, from russia, from the, as the on countries, from your perspective, have the sanctions against me and more and against the jump there have any meaningful impact. ironically the big impact is on the people of name are not leaders, because as you pointed out, they can get help from china and russia. a lot of times countries do this and i'll

speak to the united state. they do it because it makes them feel good. they've got to do something. my goodness, what happened to me out of been mar. they had the all the role of the elected government. and so we got to do something. so you do it. the more countries you can get to join you, the better, the better it is, the potential of having a long term impact. but by and large, it's a substitute for taking more dramatic action. it's more of a symbol than anything else in most in most cases. go in, you know, and your previous answer, you mentioned russia and russia of course, has been sanctioned by the us for among other things. election, meddling and cyber attacks. are these making any kind of a difference? no, not really teaching russia to learn without to live without the united states. again, linking itself closer to, to china. because again,

there the problems tend to be the same. the sanctions are largely unilateral. that is imposed by one side to dictates or to change the behavior of another and then not use to enforce rules based system systems. but the rule supplies the same, same or one. and that's the main reason why russia not going to budge. and that's actually just learning to live with it. so i don't i don't think it's going to make much of a difference even if they're escalated. as i forget, you know, you mentioned cyber and human rights, the common denominator. all of this is that it's only in reference to what russia has done is never, never goes to other way. it never addresses the united states, hunger activities, didn't ever address as human rights issues in, in the united states. there's always this instrument for sovereign qualities. so for one side to police the other, and under those circumstances it's been completely illegitimate in moscow,

which is why they refused to listen to it. and instead they just find their economy to not to let themselves from further pressure. oh rick, it seems more and more we just hear about sanctions being imposed again and again, this just seems to fill the headlines week after week. so i ask you, have we gotten to the point where sanctions are simply being overused? well, there is no such thing like a perfect re on pro, how we use different tools, no matter if it's the policy or if it's a can nomic sanctions. i think it really depends on a case by case i'm now in a united germany and the wall came down because you cannot make embargo putting on socialist countries. they were cut off from access to technology, and that made them. he cannot meekly implode. and that was the beginning of the end of the comic experiment called socialism. so it's not completely useless and it

depends on the circumstances. of course, i wouldn't loppy in favor of if you can impose force on others in the name of whatever, please do it. or you should back i think it really depends on the case to discuss under what conditions it makes sense in connection with other tools. lawrence, you know, when it comes to the west imposing sanctions more often in some ways, you know, from your point of view, does this not just encourage the countries that are being hit with sanctions to just look to other countries and strike deals with them? i offer as an example, iran finding deals with china were venezuela signing deals with russia? i mean, what do you say? well, again, unless it's the whole international community that does it, then obviously you're going to have nations take care of their own best interest. and if they are ordered or talk,

receives and don't have much pressure from the people, they can minimize the impact by going to other countries and even what the impact of the u. s. flood sanctions had, will not get the people to rise up. and i think again, it's a way to say, well, we didn't just ignore this, we put sanctions on and then you can move on because you can solve all the world's problems. you are not willing to use military force. we have sanctions on to book for over 50 years and we couldn't get rid of castro. so this whole idea that you know, way it's going to achieve that subject is really something that needs to be analyzed as you're doing today. so people realize the limitations of glenn, thanks and you know, they can also be used by regimes who are being targeted to rally domestic support as well. correct. i mean,

even unpopular leaders can use sanctions that have imposed against them and their governments as a way to boost support domestically. correct? yes. so that was interesting common that came before this idea that the supposed to rally the people against the leaders. and again, often in the way through quite open that the objective is to put the pressure on the people. so they will tell us leadership, however, often in achieve stops. and so, for example, the thanks because russia were quite interesting because the economy had a lot of problems in the company should have diversified. and indeed the government, when they went through economic problems they, they should have had to take some responsibility for the difficulties. however, at the same time, in 2014, you have the bama come up on the tv and saying, you know, way we destroyed your economy. it was us the reason why tell us russian families of course, it's already is willing to take the blame off the government and you also create a lot of resentment towards external power. but again, it also has to,

the fax is always have to be linked to something if you want to change behavior, destroying the economy company. the purpose, if you want to change the havior success is define, you have to see whether or not this is possible. and with the case of bellows, it's not, it's pretty much always tied to regime change. so i think it's not doing the specific common rules which on the international system should operate under and same with russia there's, there's no, there's no, nothing really rush i can do. it's not going to seed me. so it's, it's the people that actively support what the government has done and blamed economic difficulties on for hours. so it's intention of rolling the people against thrown government. it's not really working lauren's, you know, i asked the glenn about the unintended consequences of sanctions just now and it looked like you also wanted to jump in. so please go ahead. well, again,

i was going to say there are these on intended consequences because it can allow these dictators to blame the us lad, or the international community for the problems they have at home. and it hurt your own people. it can basically strengthen these regimes that you're trying to change . the great are sanctions work best against people you're working with. they're dependent on you for foreign aid. then the sanctions can work, but they're usually not your enemies. lawrence. let me also ask you, you know, we've seen countries like russia and china start retaliating more when sanctions are imposed on them. do you think going forward we're going to see more countries retaliate when sanctions are imposed against them. oh, very definitely. particularly with china, which is, you know, such a fast growing economy and what we, the united states depends on for a lot of supplies that we get that keeps our economy going. so yes,

they are going to do because the united states global economic position is not a strong one, was it's still strong, but it's not as strong as that one was. so i think you're going to to see that i think with the north stream pipeline, one of the reasons we did not stop that from germany is basically be cause we know ago that we need the help of the germans to deal with the chinese. all right, we've run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thank you so much to all of our guest, glenn decent, or rick bruckner, and lawrence court and thank you to for watching. you can see this and all of our previous programs again, anytime by visiting our website, algebra dot com and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter. our handle is at a inside story. for me, my, how much i'm doing the whole thing here. bye for now. the

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differences and similarities of cultures across the world. so no matter how you take it will bring you the news and current affairs that matter to you. a lot of the stories that we cover highly complex, so it's very important that we make them as understandable as we can. as always is eric correspondence. that's what we strive to do. me the hello there. i'm just on the attainder with the headlines here on out are 0. now dozens of people have reportedly been killed after an air strike hit a busy market and hit your b as t gray region. health workers and the village of to goga, have told the associated press that soldiers blocked medical teams from traveling to the scene. it's unknown who carried out the attack. the us secretary of state

says it's crucial that libya holds national elections and december has the only way to ensure peace and stability. anthony blinking made those comments ahead of an international conference that is underway in berlin, which aims to reduce violence in the north african country. representatives from the transitional government.