moments notice the local authorities gave that she this tent, but he never used it. his neighbors told us they spent a year in their tent and ended up fixing their house at their own expense. at the heart of this community, 70 units are going up 1st to how's the last of those 2 homeless? it's unclear whether people will get to keep that damaged properties. but at rama's earthquake response was 1st and it helped him win an election. jobs are open to us, al jazeera, for mana albania. ah, hello. the headlines on al jazeera us has condemned an air strike on a busy market in ethiopia as t gray region, which reportedly kill dozens of people. health workers in the village to go. that's all the associated press, that soldier is blocked, medical team from reaching the scene. people in hong kong are flocking to newspapers down to get a final edition of the pro democracy newspaper apple daily. it's been under

pressure since beijing's national security law came into force. apple daily's top executives have been arrested and assets frozen. typical paul, it has more from hong kong. very emotional morning year in particular for supporters or for apples daily and supporters of democracy. apple daily was the san democratic newspaper. it was critical of the authorities not only here and in china, it was, it would boldly make headlines where other papers were often afraid to because it's censorship because they may lose advertising. but apple daily never had any of those issues. and it became one of the most popular papers in hong kong for years. looking for ministers as thousands of mercenaries could be out of her country within days. representatives of libya as governments have been meeting world leaders in berlin to try to establish security ahead of the national elections in december. if you would send us one and a half years ago, libya was threatened with collapse. the economy was on the verge of collapse. we

saw social tensions and divisions. today we're in a critical phase, but we're also in a very hopeful phase. today we can speak with a unified voice and say we will not return to war. brazil's environment minister ricardo solace has quit. a criminal investigation is taking place and whether he obstructed a police probe of illegal logging in the amazon rain forest. and brazil is reporting a record daily rise in proven 1900 infections. the health ministry says more than 115000 new cases were confirmed on wednesday, and almost 2400 jacks reported. brazil has registered more than 18000000 cases, and around half a 1000000 people have died since the corona virus pandemic begun. those are the headlines on al jazeera inside story is coming up next. me

a catalogue, separatist leaders, walk free from jail fame's prime minister. hope the arden will heal the wounds from the region failed succession attempts 4 years ago. but could his decision backfire and cause more division? this is inside door. ah . hello and welcome to the program. i'm hammer, jim john, 9 politicians and activists convicted for trying to break the catalonia region away from spain or spending their 1st moments of freedom. they were jailed for up to 13

years for holding an illegal referendum in 2017. spain's prime minister gave them a pardon on tuesday. he hopes his gesture will foster a peaceful dialogue about catalonia the future. but the leaders say they'll keep fighting for the region secession. the pardon is deeply controversial. opposition, party se they'll challenge it in court. as sonya guy, you go, reports a tentative olive branch loaded with consequences. the spanish prime minister has been pushing hard to revive talks with capital and separatists and hoping that a pardon for the movement 9 in prison leaders can open the way for dialogue. we are responding to mother to the spanish government has taken this decision because it's the best of the capital lonia and the best for spain and correspondence to the spirit of hominy and co existence in the spanish constitution. yeah, it's not without opposition. sanchez finds himself in the middle of

a storm outside of colonia, it is deeply unpopular, more than 60 percent of the country against the move and parties from the center to the hard right. have capitalized on that discontent. but the pro secessionist movement, the pardon do not go far enough. the cattle and lita said only an amnesty would be acceptable as he could call to continue the fight for independence. but i suppose water it's time for an amnesty on the right to self determination. it is time to agree on the referendum. it's time for a solution to achieve more internal consensus. yeah, the illegal independence referendum in 2017 triggered the biggest political crisis of the country had seen in decades. the 9 succession as leaders was sentence in 2019 for their roles in the vote, including catalonia vice premier,

spain supreme court, which oversaw the trial has also rejected the pardons. as it says, those centers have shown no remorse. while the ruling is non binding, it could be cited a possible future legal challenges in the constitutional court, which could send the 9 back to prison. the difficulty for the process session is to argument is that while it is very vocal, it is still in the minority. in catalonia, big part of spain is still just about the preferred option that mr. sanctioned. his dilemma is that he is leading a minority government and can ill afford to squander the support in the parliament . he also needs the support of catalan nationalists parties barely does know that this peace offering won't be extended by the prime minister's opponents. it is an enormous gamble, yet those determined to move on say the pardon are the only way to repair the deep divisions that still linger between the 2 sides. so did i ever,

how does era ah, alright, let's bring in our guess in barcelona, we are joined by mar aguilera. voc is professor of constitutional law at barcelona university in madrid. ruth ferrero lecturer in political science and senior researcher at complet competency university of madrid. and in brussels pit their clipper and you policy analyst and editor of brussels report dot e u. a warm welcome to you all more. let me start with you today. will these pardons from your vantage point helps you of the wounds between capital lonia and the rest of spain, or could they backfire and lead to deeper divisions going forward? good afternoon. thank you very much for having me here. it may have been young. this helped any step of course helps because this people has been in this cut, the leader. they have been in jail, then it's not only about them, it's about all the people that walked up to them. and we even had the president of

the capital empower meaning jane. and this has been very shocking porter. the cut, the lance was tired. the in this has been reflected in the last elections where people kept bolting woking. poor independent these parties of course there are many other parties, there are many other opinions in color on, you know, of course there are, but this is the 1st step, but hearing catalonia many people what they want because a part of them, it's individual. and now right now, 9 person will be relieved, whereas if there is an amnesty law, that means that the facts are clear, clarified, and then more than see how soon persons that are prosecute to think court would be clarified. and then then what would be very useful an amendment of the criminal code to clarify the city should crime and also some granted to have to do with the

freedom of expression and with these would linger with the rest of the european countries roof. let me ask you the same question from your vantage point in madrid . do these pardons help foster a moment where it could lead to a reconciliation of sorts between the central government and the capital? i'm nationalists? yes, they will think so. i think this is, you know, the starting point to carry on with dialogue, political dialogue among the parties. i think it's necessary to go ahead. it's a legal issue. so that's sort of that then this are the political negotiations on dialogue. i think the got to say at the end is funny society already $12.00 way out of the situation of a nation. and so i think it will, they are what we'll want to move on on this on the situation. so yes,

i guess a power don't, it's the 1st is that there will have to wait and see if we can proceed on that political negotiations. i'll find out political solution for this issue. and if we could just step back for a moment and look at the beginnings of this, i mean the 2017 referendum. this created a huge political crisis. and while this crisis may have moved in no way, has it completely been resolved, has it exactly. i think the madrid government has not been properly engaging its indeed her 1st good step towards reconciliation between barcelona madrid. now, i mean, fundamentally, i think the independent, this in got saloon shillinger stands that at least

a large part of culture and society does not want independence. and i think madrid should accept in concert on society. there is a strong desire or legitimate desire for more self government, so it should be possible to find the middle grounds. the obvious answer and model to look at is switzerland. a country were indeed the centralized entities have a lot of competences in particular docs competencies. and if you look at spain and there is, there are d the basque country and they have more tax powers at the moment. and so perhaps that could be one way of trying to find the children that got tonia and perhaps older region in spain received a tax powers that the boss country already house. more polls have shown that

a majority of spaniards were against granting these pardons. now we've seen separatist leaders who are pardoned actually walked out of jail. how was that news being greeted? hearing got the only, you know, where they saw is that that's be there. just a large part of the society who and the police are referring to this. there is a large agreement on this, and of course, there are people who are not independent, these scores, and people who are, and people who want or controversial needs to see what people want or at least go back to politics. and these 1st step, seen all these politicians, politicians getting out of his chair had mean a relief for us. but still there are more than 2000 persons that are still prosecuted. so that means that parents are not easy. their challenges are still here. we need a response from politics, not from the judiciary,

and specifically not from the criminal court because many things that maybe should be fine or should have a response. the criminal respond should be the last one, for instance, to call it sedition. what happened here in california for me this is for many like your appeal county, and i'm just international that un, many institutions have said that this was this proportionate and so seen all the leaders getting out of jail has been very happy because for instance, the print out the parliament of catalonia, this lady, she said grandma and she's very pop are, she's very well known. and for many cut, these has been very painful, of course for many couple and 2 was very painful to see the touch referendum because of course, the proper to put

a thing for many. this was painful to see that a part of the couple in society want to to be independent of what spain and they've won and they didn't trust this reframe so because of that reconciliation and to talk. and also, when the president of spain came to the detail, but on the open house of latter rambler person, i'd say we spanish lot got on. there is the 1st time that we have seen this kind of seduction. and we will like to see more actually, ruth, our political parties in spain, who have been opposed to the granting of the pardons, no matter where they might fall on the political spectrum. are these parties beginning to capitalize with rigor over the anger that's been expressed about the pardons? not at all. i mean, the ride going parties have been trying to lounge campaign essay was the same in

2006 against the catalog intercepted by the. so for by the population has be the finish, they don't get what they. busy were expected, so matter of fact, while they are minding now the said that losing so far from that, they just say at the x or such as the a charge or the inter printers or, of course the ones who are usually so for the position for the the, the part on so i think it has been good to you by the government to get this support. those. no, just the political parties that were supporting their government with the approval of the budget in here. but also getting some up or their acts are the ones i just mentioned before, which is essential to go farther on these reconciliation and political dialogue

process. so i think the opposition political forces are loosing truck. there are losing their argument. they have no legal argument. they have no political argument because says pardon has been used as since the beginning, i mean, since last centuries ago, but also the, the beginning of the marker, seeing the same by either either a new government, right, or left wing. so has no legal argument has no political when and also they are not saying the truth when they say they are negotiating with independence independent. they've got the last because they need it will fight the governor of the country because as i, yes, that the budget has been approved already. so they don't need the government there . that's no need the support of the political party. so i think they have to think about it and a half a reflection on, on that the, on the position of,

or that i should say to radical position against the part of them. get there from your perch in brussels, how risky does all this look for prime minister sanchez? how much of an impact politically could these pardons have on him going forward while he's trying to find the middle ground, his between 2 sides ready? and that's why indeed he has not gone as far to declare amnesty but, and also why he has waited in order to take this step. and then of course, is the right doing opposition and they are not very keen to, you know, to accept any concessions. but that said, at some point, there's going to be a new elections in spain. and if sanchez wants to achieve something, he should not stop here by just you know, granting this, this, this freedom to, to the policy makers,

to these politicians. he should officially engage and try to find a settlement with cult lonia and, and, and get a troop legally before the next elections. because indeed, otherwise, some people that are more hard line on the court, all in issue may come to power and then it may become even harder to find the settlement. now that said, i don't have the impression that mr. sanchez is, is courageous enough to go there. but we will see more where do things stand exactly in catalonia, when it comes to the separatist movement right now, i mean, since 2017 has, has momentum for this movement abd has it slowed? well, it's difficult to say because in the last electron it didn't go down, but the thing is that it was in the middle of korea. so participation was lower. so

it was said that look from the independent type. do i say look, the more when what is going up? i'm up. whereas from a pain it was said, well, but know many people went to port, but this doesn't mean anything because we don't know what we're going about the one to stay at home. so if we look at the last electrons, independence, this movement, that's not stopped, but i think many people would like to see politics back, i think may be really tired of all this judicial edition of, of the, the process. and so far we didn't see any response from the spanish state. so in the previous government. so right now, at least a period of time to the government, it's giving it's trying to missteps. and of course, it's criticized by golds cripes from the hard core of both type like from the

wind up when the unity of expand that they will want to talk at home and the ones that want to go straight away towards independence. but most of the people, i think, you think the medium and, and step types these want or it would remain the, the criminal code if we would talk about the spanish judiciary. because if we talk about transitional justice, when you go from i think that's a shipping toward democracy. now there are still missteps, homerton internationalists time there's that to be taken and come up, then we're not thinking to in a spain till wearing a situation. sometimes that has to do with this morelli transition we had in the spring, but maybe we need another transition to enforce or democracy we need to talk about more about inclusive be about as these 2 is more of a maybe would be a response or many other factors towards that could increase and

i mean, you're just putting democracy or if you know, critics of prime minister sanchez accused him of abandoning his previous positions on this issue. they say that before that he had stated publicly that he was against giving out pardons to the separatist leaders. and that essentially he's only doing this now because he needs support and his party needs support from capital a nationalist parties in order to pass laws in parliament. what do you say is that a valid criticism? i mean, what the prime minister have done this if he did not need that support. i guess i just mentioned that in my previous intervention that the suffering, their sentence is not really not true. i mean, the main law that has been passed on on day it's, it's legislator and it should be the budget has been passed already. so that's, that's not true. they government need say this for the pick up the political got

that political party saying that i should say that i think the socialist party household with them being troll political dialogue. we have to remind here that the the most conflicted conflicts, if governments and between are the most the most conflict that in relation has been doing. they've got longer remain 2002 in 2006, 7 especially a later on with the referendum. when de popular party was on government in essence government. so when the rub, because go varying both sides more radical, more radicalism appears, either in catalonia or in the rest of the country. so i think the nice is a good thing, said the, the spartans, they said,

i'm not quite agree with my previous colleague nor mar wanting brussels. when he said that, since it has no enough, a bravery to, to face it, i think we have 2 years ahead to, to carry on the political dialogue. and i think if de socially government fails a good be not because of the part of us but by their stuff like management, socio crisis we're facing even though or how they manage the funds coming from europe. but not because of the fire them. and i think we are on the, on the right track to sort out the missed a political conflict, which has been a stagnated for all for so long. bye. now, thank if you are. so we know that the leaders who were pardoned, they're not gonna be able to hold political office for, for some time or, or run for office. but apparently, these pardons are also conditional on these leaders,

not committing serious crimes for a certain amount of time. when we're talking about crimes, what, what do you think that means and what could encompass a crime? what could land, one of these leaders who's been pardoned back in a court room or back in jail going forward? well indeed, as you say, it all looks very shaky. and defendant on the goodwill offer of madrid would have to see legally how permanent it is, how solid it is. the future government could not revoke this. also, it's clear that people like carlos pushed amongst who is currently in belgium. it's not clear at all that he can go back to spain because indeed there has not been a formal amnesty. i mean, part of the problem is also that the spanish government, or i should perhaps say the judiciary has been using definitions of,

of crime. and that are not necessarily considered a crime in other european countries, which is an element that has complicated attempts by the spanish drew the sherry, to ask for extra edition, for example, from a from belgium. so the belgian judges has of broke this extradition also. now do you are being court of justice as over rules the do you report that served as the legal basis to to, to take the immunity from capital on any piece. so i think a lot of the legal basis that has be used to author to initiators of this or friend them is quite questionable. you also see examples of public officials in catalonia, that are facing legal consequences even if they were merely doing their job as bureaucrats. or rudy,

and has no political role whatsoever. so i think a lot of it is very questionable so far. and this also, i should, should race on down on how solid deal of pardons will actually be in practice, mar, pitter, just then mentioned how it's sort of unclear where all this might leave. mr. put your mom going forward. i want to ask you a little bit more about that. i mean, could, could what's happened with these pardons? and if there is a reconciliation or a dialogue going forward, could that at any way open the door for me to put your mom who is in self imposed exile to come back in some capacity or perhaps even be granted a pardon or clemency of some type it has just been said that the situation is that many crimes that are a crime in the brain according to our criminal cold or at least not clear,

not like sedition. like criticizing the, the king of spain or, or an attack to religion. they are not in line with all the criminal quotes in europe, and this is why the european court of human rights have to take all these years. so that mean that you put them on president for general, and he wants to come, she can go around or europe because he's the european and be but too far from the tradition. a miss payne, catherine said that if you come to spain, he would be arrested. so 2 things should be change because if not, we have the situation that the ones that stay here, the poor man, it has to be seen as more honest the fact that they say that they went through the court. and the once would be in the street, whereas the printing on which a mom who is in a dial, if he comes back,

she will be arrested, and also prosecuting and prosecute. she took, he would be released by the perth all these leaders where in preventive prison for many months, you mother iep, and they are from barcelona, they normally because they could not find themselves in their own language. all right, well we have run out of time. so we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thanks so much to all of our guests marketing of our case. ruth, ferrero and theater trip and thank you to for watching. you can see this and all of our previous programs. again, anytime by visiting our website, algebra dot com and for further discussion, go to our facebook page at facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. you can also doing the conversation on twitter. our handle is apps a j inside story. for me, my name is jim jim and the whole team here. bye for now. the

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