really resonated with you, it was his brother, karen's floyd. it was a very emotional speech. it was not a prepared speech, but he did say, we don't want to see more smacks on the rest. he said, because if it was as it would not have been an open and shut case, we would have been in jail. i'm to my mind, tell me what you think this is really what encapsulates the nature of this case. absolutely. given the event which we saw endlessly most of the worlds saw how george floyd was killed, it would be absolutely abrasions to see a sentence that didn't reflect the gravity and the enormity of the tragedy that had taken place in the family. you know, it breaks your heart, listening to them, but listening to thinking about the children and their testimony,

anyone who saw it. if you haven't seen it, you ought to look at it. it's one thing you ought to see in the 9 year old especially. and it's not long and the impact that it had on ma'am, what they saw and listening to the lawyer for mister shogun, as he described him as being this upright citizen too never done anything wrong. and they're all things that are in the public records about failing bad. he had just like any human being. yes, we expect his mother to support him. i thought it was interesting that mr. nelson, the defense lawyer had his client not really make a speech, but just to come dressed in civilian clothes and to just briefly say something, but to have his mother. but not have cheryl children make an apology in any great

detail and say he was sorry that the old thing happened. i thought that was an interesting scroll. there's pressure on the judge because when the, the mr. nelson talked about mitigating factors. if you think about them, they weren't really mitigating factors. there are lots of information that shows that george of mr. shogun was not the kind of person who never did anything wrong in his life. and so that's not really the case, but he was trying to put the judge on the spot that we know you're going to come up with a sentence and we're not going to get parole, a probation or anything. but think of the mitigating factors of but it is important and george floats, brother was correct. it is important that we get more than a slap on the wrist full out of this. and this is the kind of punishment that should take place when an officer of the law who is supposed to

protect us and the people who hire him does this kind of thing and in public view with so many people seeing it, you just can't lock, continue to let people get away with that if he got away with that slap on the wrist. and then the movement for police reform is greatly set back. mary frances berry, i want to leave it there for the moment, but please don't go away because i want to bring in ronald sullivan and he is professor of law and director of the criminal justice institute at harvard law school. ronald, thank you very much. indeed for being with us. i want to ask you about the different approaches that we have seen here for the prosecution and the defense. we jerry black while the prosecutor bringing in the witness statements as we were talking about with maybe they're very emotional, very powerful. equally of course for the defense we had from direct children's

mother calen polarity. she said, my son is a good man, he's a quiet, thoughtful, honorable and selfless man. if you send to him, you're going to be sentencing me. talk to us about how you think both sides are approaching this stage in the case. well, thank you for having me. first of all, the prosecution is approaching it as they should an extraordinarily somber moment where the lives of very many people in the family and in the community generally are impacted. so they let what the victim impact statements just to show the degree of pain that the family is feeling. and then they talked about the law and essentially told the judge that if your starting point is 12 and a half years in the upward range of that is a 180 months or 15 years. you yourself judge the prosecution argues

a pound or aggravating factors. and because you found these 4 aggravating factors were asking you to double to upwardly, depart from the sentencing range and double the time to be served. at 30 months, the prosecution was extraordinarily effective in their argument. they seemed to strike the right tone. similarly for the defense, this is a very difficult position to be in. your client has just been convicted of murder and you're standing there or sentencing. there's not a whole lot that you can say. so mister nelson, he took the position to try to be the paragon of reason and fairness, and he wanted the judge to just go right down the middle. there are a lot of people on this side. there are a lot of people on the other side. there are some who think he's a monster. there are some who thinks he's a st. if you consider the aggravating circumstances, you should consider the mitigating circumstances. so he was trying to push the

judge in the direction of going right down the middle. so although he asked for probation in his papers, i think that nelson will consider it a when, if the judge went right down the middle and gave the 12 and a half years. as for the mother, very interesting presentation. and it's, it's, it's difficult. it is mother, she's certainly in pain. what was striking to me and what was missing out of what i think i would have prepped her for. and i've been the defense attorney. she said nothing about the floyd family, no expression of condolences or anything. and regardless, if you think if she thinks that her son was responsible, it would have been a nice touch in human, touched to express condolences to the family. as for officer show that he couldn't really say anything because he has an appeal pending

a former officer show up and i should say he has an appeal pending. and if he express sorrow or remorse, or, or did or said anything that was suggestive of him being criminally responsible for george floyd to death, then that statement could be used against him in his appeal. so that's what he meant when he said because of ongoing legal matters, unconstrained about what i can say. any basically said nothing. you know, it may have been better for mr. nelson to say that on his behalf and just moved on . but you will note that option children, unlike his mother, did make an expression of condolence to the family, but without accepting any responsibility for it yet. in fact, doug, someone did refer to some information that may come to light, the wasn't able to give more detail about that, but he said, i hope things will give you. i think some peace of mind will obviously need to wait

to see what that to be. tell me about a procedural process element of this. when the judge comes into a sentencing hearing, has the judge already got pretty clear ideas about what the sentence is going to be? how much does this kind of emotion and these statements in hearing like this, sway a judge. most of the time the judge has the sentence already done, and in fact, i would bet my mortgage that he has the sentence written already. so he's going to go back and consider what he saw, but that might move things only on the margins. the judge has reflected on this for a long time. now he's read all the papers and all the filings there. so, so he has a written opinion that he's already done and he'll pass it out to the media in about 5 minutes. now he may have left the number blank and filled that in and then printed it off. but for the most part,

most judges that made up their minds at this point. and it would take something extraordinary to move them off of the position that they've already thought themselves to. so that said the victim impact statement and the impact statement from the defendant as well, could conceivably have a marginal impact on the judge's decision. but my experience is very little, the court has already made up, it's my we're giving an eye on the clock at the moment. that's the one that's in the wall of the court, is that we're waiting, obviously for the judge to return. and we're going to go back to that as soon as that happens. but for now, ron, thank you very much indeed. i want to talk to our correspondent john henry, who's outside the court in minneapolis. we've seen pictures that are playing of george boyd square in minneapolis, people beginning to gather there. we've also seen people gathering outside the coach itself. are you getting any sort of sense from supporters from other people

who are there of what their reaction is to what they're hearing, possibly from inside the court. well we know from the family of george floyd that from the lawyer who speaks for the family of georgia, they are tense and anxious about this moment. as you heard from the 2 brothers and the nephew of george floyd, they've had a rough year. one of the brothers, i think it was flown, as you said, they have been reliving watching the in his words torture of their brother, hour after hour, day after day. and so obviously the family is, has been traumatized over this past year. but in the square behind me, you also have a number of people, most of them supporters of george floyd who want to see a stiff sentence. they've been chanting of encouraging the words that they've heard from the family of george floyd. and everybody's kind of on tenterhooks here, but one thing you'll notice there used to be during the trial,

a big fence up there. there were national guard troops, police, all over town. these buildings around me were boarded up and none of that is happening now. and that suggested least, the city of minneapolis believes that whatever happens here is not likely to set off widespread public outrage. you heard also the, the family of george floyd. and you also heard the mother of derrick shelven speaking there. and as you were talking to your analyst there, it occurred to me that it is the lawyers who i talk to you say that the judge does generally have an idea in mind of what he's going to do in terms of sentencing. but those victim impact statement, the family's statement can have at least some marginal effects. i've been talking to a couple of lawyers who've been watching this case. one friend of mine says he thinks that this could end up with a sense of 20 to 25 years. that would be double the 12 and a half year sentence without those 4 aggravating effects.

but whatever happens you, we're going to see some reaction here in the streets in minneapolis, when george lloyd died, of course they were the fires and the riots in the streets that moved on to peaceful protesting. and then when the sentence came down or not the sentence, when the verdict came down, declaring derek jovan guilty on all 3 charges, there was a sense of celebration in the street here among those protesters. so whatever happens at the end of this, we do expect to see a reaction. john, i want to ask you about if you can tell me about the reaction of the police in the city of men in minneapolis and the attitude that the relationship that they've had with the people in minneapolis, we heard matthew, matthew, frank, the prosecutor. thank you. police officers talking about the difficult job, but it was recognized that police officers hired and obviously eric nelson's having children's defense attorney was also talking about that. how if

a toll has been nomic change between the police department in the city and the people we do hear people here in the streets expressing support for derrick over and police, but those are minority voices. that what, what you heard in the courtroom was much more civil version of the to and fro that we hear between the people here in minneapolis and the police. remember that it was a police precinct that was attacked and burned shortly after the jeff of george floyd, amid those demonstrations and the police have been unhappy in by and large. there are exceptions, but unhappy with the press presence with the reporting that they have seen here at we had our tires slashed during the protests. police fired rubber bullets at people who were clearly marked as pressed with press signs. so there's a lot of antagonism going on here. nevertheless,

the city has tried to make some changes in that police department. we haven't seen the big defun being effort, but i would say that there is definitely an antagonism that lingers long after this event between the public and the police. here in minneapolis, john, thanks very much indeed. that's john henry outside the court and minneapolis were still waiting for peter k held. they hadn't been county judge to come back in. so i want to come back to mary frances berry again. the statements that we had from george floyds relatives were extremely strong. and i'll hear you and i were talking about what it would take to motivate people in the, in the united states, to push this issue forward to keep that momentum going. do you think those statements and statements like those could help to do that? oh, absolutely. those statements were so extremely powerful and for those of us and follow the case in the public that followed the case all over the world. heard the testimony. all you kept getting was the images in your mind,

all that testimony from children, them from the firefighter and all those people. and at the same time, the anguish that the family here. the other thing is that i wanted to say is that the reason why the public may expect the sentence to be strong and impressed by the aggravating factors. and people who follow this impressed is because the so called mitigating factors that mr. nelson talked about weren't mitigating factors at all. anyone who reads the press or watches, tv in minneapolis or anywhere else on this already knows that the showman is, has been charged with tax evasion. and that's been all of the news. well, they know that there's another case involving a youngster who we suppose supposedly abuse. mr. read it. in other words that that image of him as squeaky clean guy was never done anything wrong,

didn't mitigate because it wasn't mitigation. most people who saw it for the public there, they know. so the reaction, i think there will be very strong if we don't get a very sentence. also all the world, if we do get a very long sentence in this case, and as it is publicly anal, standards is talked about. i think it could help to fire up the movement for police reform and people being able to distinguish between when a police officer kill somebody and when gangs or domestic violence or some other thing happens when you're not talking about people who are task well. taking care of those that they arrest and that killing them. ok, i want to play some of the statements that were made. those witness statements that we had earlier on. let's talk with george floyds daughter giana. she spoke about

her father in a victim impact video that was presented to the court. when you ask about him, what are you asking about? roar, wow, that's how my day is. okay. do you wish that he was still here with us? la, rushing through his spirit. yes. and when you see your daddy again one day, what do you want to do when you see him? i'm george floyd's nephew, brandon williams says the murders been devastating for the family. although sober will be sent in today and spend time prison. he will have less rios in his family again. talk until he will likely get to spend time with him upon his release. these

are our luxury that my younger than giana arrived. michele, that made the made the act, the decision to kill her father. there'll be no more birthday parties, no graduations, holiday gatherings, other family celebrations, the laughter herbs, guidance, advice since the security and those opportunities to simply offer ever go georgia murder, this trial and everything in between. as a tragic and devastating, our family is for ever broken. and one thing we can argue back is jocelet. you know, we're getting closer to that sentence, things by piece. okay. well, they have been county judge these a picture, some outside the court. there's a crowd that is beginning to get larger. as we get closer to that moment. mary frances berry, i want to talk to particularly about the words that we had from george floyd's daughter giana. they the impact that we have heard that we have clearly heard for

that little girl. but also i want to talk about the impact on the whole generation of young people in minneapolis particularly, but also across the us and other parts of the world who have seen the response to george floyd's murder have seen the reaction around the world. how do you think that is shaping a new generation now, mary, unfortunately i'm sorry. we're not able to hear you at the moment and i apologize for that. you hear me? i can. yes, thank you very much indeed. would you like me to ask the question again? are you happy to give me your? i heard the plush. great, thank you. please. go ahead. thank you. we'll have a great the this, this encounter and seeing this tragedy will have a lasting impact on children around the world who's so it has kind of impact that i know firsthand because when i was 4 years old or flag

a police officer used to race through the playground where we played a little kids my age. i'm a little bit older on a motorcycle and used to yell at us and say, what day is this and try to run over relations of a little kid would say, i don't know. police officer would say it's what dance. and he said monday and he said, call me best, monday is last monday. and then he would try to run over the children for ever after that. as i grew up and my cousins and all the rest of them, we thought saw the police as fearful enemies who did things like try to run over a little kids for some reason. and did irrational things. and so the consciousness can you imagine if that happened to us to have this child have her father killed in this way and the other children who were there seeing what happened in children

around the world, looking at that image over and over again. and thinking these are police officers, and this is what police officers do to you. i just think that the psychological impact of that is just so enormously negative. but it is an aggravating factor if i could think of a stronger word, mary, i'm gonna ask you to stop there. i apologize. but we're going to go back to the court now for pages. peniman county judge peter k. hell is back in you for being here. and for providing the input, you did not just people who are in the courtroom here, but also those are provided written statements of both from the boy family and the developers family. i've read all the impact statements that were submitted earlier and listen carefully. it all the input here today, and it is truly appreciate it that you took the time to stay with this case. and to

provide me with input. i have reviewed the present investigation and carefully considered all the facts, the case, the law. but my comments are actually going to be very brief because because most of it's going to be in writing. i have a $22.00 page memorandum that is going to be attached to the 3rd thing order. and why am i doing it in writing to emphasize the fact that determining the appropriate sentence in any case. and in this case, is a legal analysis. it's applying the rule of law to the facts of an individual and specific case. and that is why as opposed to trying to be mean profound here on the record, i prefer that you read the legal analysis that explains how i determine the sounds in this case

what the cases are, what the sentence is not based on emotion or sympathy, but at the same time, i want to acknowledge the deep and tremendous pain that all the families are feeling, especially the floyd family. you have our sympathies and i acknowledge and hear the pain that you are feeling. i acknowledged pay natalie uncles in this courtroom . but the floyd family were outside this courtroom and other members of the community, it has been painful throughout, had been county throughout the state of minnesota and even the country. but most importantly, we need to recognize the pain of the void family. i'm not going to attempt to be profound or clever because it's not the appropriate time.

i'm not basing my felt and also on public opinion. i am not basing it on any attempt to send any messages. a trial court judge, the job of a trial court judge is to apply the law to specific facts and to deal with individual cases. and so this is showing as the count one, based on the verdict of the jury finding you guilty of unintentional 2nd degree murder while committing a felony under minnesota statutes 6 or 9.19. so division 2 per and one. it is the judgement of the court that you know, stand convicted of that offense. pursuant to minnesota statutes, section 6 or 9 or 4 counts, 2 and 3 will remain an adjudicated as they are lesser offensive of count.

$17.00 for one, the court committee to the cause of the commission of corrections for a period of 270 months as to $70.00. that is that 10 year addition to the presenter sadness of $150.00 bumps. this is based on your abuse of a position of trust and authority and also the particular cruelty shown to george floyd. your granted credit for $199.00 days already served. pay the mandatory surcharge of $70.00 to be paid from prison wages. you're prohibited from possessing firms, ammunition or explosives for the remainder of your life. provide a d n. a sample is required by law register as a predatory offender as required by law. and you will receive a copy of the order and also the attachment random explaining the court's analysis . anything further from the state. if this needs to be said,

we just ask that be executed forthwith. turns remaining because the sheriff to be transported back to the d. o c or whichever custody is currently holding anything for the us. right? they do, we are doing well as promised. there are brief remarks, brief comments from judge kyle. he did say that accompanying this judgement would be the legal analysis, which is the thing that determine the sentencing itself. he said that the judgement was not based on emotion or sympathy, but he did acknowledge the pain felt by the community, particularly the trauma caused by the community team in minneapolis and the pain cause to the family of george floyd. but he said the sentencing was

a legal analysis, and so he sentenced judge pizza. carl sentencing derek shows into 22 and a half years following his conviction in the mud of george roy. now, guidance on sentencing from the state for an offend, convicted of 2nd degree murder, which is 12 and a half years. so 12 and a half years was the starting point. and the prosecution, we're arguing for up to 30 years, punishment up to 30 years in prison. so this is a little bit less than that, but the, the crucial point here are the the aggravating factors. so the prosecutors filed motions off to that guilty verdict in the trial about 2 months ago now. and they argued in those motions that when it came to sentencing the judge needed to consider what was described as for aggravating factors. which on that show then

abused his position of trust and authority that he acted with killer cruelty towards george floyd. and he committed murder in concert with the individuals of that refund, sitting on the offices involved in george lloyd's arrest. they have been charged, but they have not yet faced trial. and the 4th aggravating factor is that it was carried out in the presence of children. these are some of the scenes outside the courtroom there in minneapolis. you can see the emotions that understandably running high as just got it. let's just get a sense of some of the reaction there. this one right now, the, the the following all of this our course want to john henry and he is in minneapolis.

john, we obviously had the guilty verdict 2 months ago over the course of this. what is become a landmark case? now we have the sentence things all $22.00 and a half years. of course, the prosecution was pushing for up to 30 is what, how would you describe the atmosphere there in the reaction to this judgment? but you're already beginning to hear the reaction of some people who feel that that wasn't a stiff enough sentence, but a $22.00 and a half year sentence for a police officer going 10 years beyond the guidelines for this crime. due to those aggravating circumstances is a pretty stiff and an extraordinarily unusual sentence is very rare that police officer is charged with murder. it's even rarer that one is convicted and it is rare. are still that one is given a sentence quite that strict. i think in the streets you will hear some criticism

of the sentence, but overall one would expect that the street minneapolis will be fairly calm. there . there is a reckoning being carried out here. what we're not hearing is, is protesting in this streets so far. and we have heard some criticism from people driving by before the sentence was handed down that chopin was on trial at all. but again, that was that those, those are minority voices. those are not the voices of most of the people that here out here, we're going to hear from the family shortly. they're gonna come out and speak after that hearing we're told. so we'll get a 1st 10 view of what their reaction is. and they were asking for the stiffest sentence, allowable that would have been up to 40 years in this case. but a sentence of over 30 years or so. legal analyst tell me probably would have invited a challenge on appeal. and that 30 years was really the practical maximum that

could have been levied in this case in a sentence of 20 to 30 years. it's substantial. so landing at.