being carried out here, what we're not hearing is, is protesting in the streets so far. and we have heard some criticism from people driving by before the sentence was handed down. that chopin was on trial at all. but again, that was that those, those are minority voices. those are not the voices of most of the people that we hear out here. we're going to hear from the family shortly. they're gonna come out and speak after that hearing we're told. so we'll get a 1st 10 view of what their reaction is and they were asking for the stiffest sentence allowable that would have been up to 40 years in this case. but a sentence of over 30 years or so. legal analyst tell me probably would have invited a challenge on appeal and that 30 years was really the practical maximum that could have been levied in this case. and a sentence of 20 to 30 years. this is substantial, so landing at $22.00 and

a half years chain years over the statutory guidelines on this is a pretty significant sentence and i think there will be at least a sense among people out here that some form of justice were carried out. even if some people were hoping for a yet different sentence. that's right. it seems as judge peter, kyla should have gone somewhere in between where that, that those pops neither side is completely satisfied. but obviously, there are people out on the streets now that would have been hoping for a tough a sentence. john, we actually had earlier in the court from, from derek show than himself. and we didn't hear from him during the trial. that's right, children was in a difficult position in that he wants to appeal this case and he also faces federal charges. he and the other 3 officers involved a federal charges for violating the civil rights of george floyd while he was being

arrested and ultimately died. so if show and actually acknowledged guilt here that would be used against him in those cases. so he, he, as he said, due to some legal proceedings that are ongoing, he would limit is comments. he did say that information would come out that he hoped, would give peace of mind to the floyd family. we really don't know what that is. but yeah, the hearing from chauffeur and even in very brief form is something that we really haven't heard much during the trial. he invoked his 5th amendment right, not to incriminate himself, not to testify. and once again, we have a very brief statement from showing that gives us some indication of what he had to say. but i think really his perspective was mostly given by his mother who said he was a good man. he was a police officer who volunteered often when the department was short, which it apparently was on may 25th 2020. when george floyd was killed, his lawyer,

eric nelson show van's lawyer to eric nelson said that show vin wasn't even scheduled to work that day. he volunteered because there was a shortage on that day. so we are hearing a little bit about children's perspective and very little of that came from showing himself. okay, thank you very much. sure. john andrew, appreciate it. on a henry calling from minneapolis. is john with respect to hear from the family of george floyd, of course he had his brothers in court giving providing statements. but we will certainly get to that a bit later when it starts. and also following this, of course, is professor ronald sullivan. professor of law and director of the criminal justice due to harvard law school doing just now from using massachusetts as a hearing from john very, as you all know, 2nd degree murder can carry a prison sentence of up to 40 years. that was always going to be unlikely in this

case. what is your reaction to this judgment? i think that the sentence was somewhere in the mid range. i thought it was going to be higher, given that the judge mound for aggregate aggravating factors. 22.5 years or 270 months to be sure is a lot of time. it's a significant sentence, but i do think that many will believe that it's not a sentence that reflects the gravity of the crime. and here's what many in the community are going to think. and some will say that had the situation been the reverse that had an african american man put his knee on officer children's neck for 9 and a half minutes. then the sentence would have been much higher. a predicate of the american criminal justice system is supposed to be that justice is blind, that there's not one set of rules for police officers and another set of rules for

citizens. so that if the judge would have given someone else in similar circumstances 30 years, then he should have given officer children 30 years. so i think that's going to be the reaction of many. having said that, the court did upwardly depart from the 12 and a half year guideline range. that sort of sentence would have been an absolute insult. so 22.5 years is a significant sentence. it's an upward departure, but it's less than many expected and anticipated. yes, and in a case that obviously the judge, what did you make of his comments just at the the start of delivering his sentencing, making it very. and obviously he is aware of the intense public interest around this case in the way in which has captured imagination. millions of people watching this, not just in america,

but really all around the world. he made it very clear that this was based on a legal analysis and not on any kind of emotion or sympathy. right? that was clear to by the judge, to insulate himself from the forms of criticism that he's going to get from this sentence. but it comes with the territory and being a judge, whatever his sentence would have been one side or the other would have criticize him. i find that i would be shot if he would have given a 22.5 year sentence if the situation war in reverse. if the hypothetical that i previously suggested war in front of this court, i think he would have given a much higher sentence. so i don't particularly by the notion that this was a cold, dispassionate analysis. i think that the court took into account that chosen was a police officer and gave some credit for that fact. it's inconsistent with

the way justice is supposed to happen in the united states. but it's a reality, it's descriptively how courts tend to do things. when obviously this case as a drawn, a great deal of attention to police brutality, the disproportionate number of killings of black americans as a result of actions by white police officers. what needs to happen now in terms of reform in terms of investigating systematic abuse of power and discrimination and violence by the police department in minneapolis but also elsewhere. i think that citizens across the country in the us have to keep their foot on the gas pedal so to speak, that they have to continue to press their politicians for significant police reform. we in the united states have to see this case as

a beginning. and not an end. this is not some big statement of systemic police fairness. now, in fact, just the opposite. it took an extraordinary case like this for a police officer to be convicted and sentenced for killing an african american man . so this has to be the start, we now see, and we saw for 9 agonizing minutes, the sort of violence that is oftentimes visited on minorities in the united states . so we need structural real reform in the police department, and it's not going to happen by magic. it's going to happen by everyday average concrete citizens pressing its government to do to, to do the right thing and to make these reforms ok, well professor ronald sullivan, then we'll catch up a bit later i hope for now. thank you very much. and just

a reminder, if you just joining us this hour, that derek show than the white police officer convicted of murdering on on black man, george floyd, has been sentenced to $22.00 and a half years in prison. sure. the now it's on floyd's neck for over 9 minutes during an arrest last year. floyd's killing sparks worldwide protest and really racial reckoning inside america, putting a harsh spotlight on the injustices faced by black people and other minorities at the hands of the police. as we were hearing from augustus baron. so this is the moment the judge handed down the sentence and 7 for one, the court committee to the cause of the commission of corrections for a period of 270 months as to 70. that is, that tenure addition to the present sentence of $150.00 bombs. this is based on your abuse of a position of trust in authority. and also the particular cruelty shown to george

floyd. your granted credit for $199.00 days already served. george floyd's brother terrence directly addressed chosen before the 10th thing. what were you thinking? what was going to you? well, you had me on my brother's neck. why? when you, when you knew that he pose no threat any more, he was handcuffed white and get up. why do you stay there? and we also heard from derek, shove in himself before the judge handed him that 22 and a half years. and since he offered his condolences to floyd's family, i'm not able to give a full formal statement at this time. but for briefly though,

i do want to give mike and also as the for the family there's going to be some other information in the future that would be of interest . and i hope things will give you some some peace of mind. thank you. or gallagher to jackson is an assistant professor of humanities in the department of africanist studies at wildly college. she's also the co host of the podcast. this stays isa tarok political history and joined this via skype from boston. there is a abroad, a debate or conversation to be had about racial justice or injustice in criminal court and how the legal system works in the country. but can i 1st ask you for your reaction to this sentencing? is it a fair sentencing in your, in your view?

no, no, i was, i was hoping for the maximum sentence and this is because in my mind, i can't think of anything worse. i can't think of anything more public. i can't think of anything more callous than what happened to george boyd. and so my expectation was that he would be punished to the fullest extent of the law. and while 22 years feels and is significant, he will be $67.00. when, when his sentence is over, he will still have time ahead of him. she will still have time. this family, george ward will, will never get that. and so i wanted something that at least came close to, to meeting the fullest extent of the law. i can't imagine what would require 30 years of this bit, and obviously nothing will bring george floyd back and not the tragedy of his family. and of many other families in the country suffered the same thing. but do you think there was some sort of optimism and positivity after the guilty verdict

in the trial 2 months ago and that, that, that, that, and that has now been that that might be dampened by the sentencing. you know, i definitely along. 7 with so many other people felt a sigh of relief. i think the status quo is that police officers don't get prosecuted. police officers don't get held accountable for the crimes that they commit. we've seen 9 officers go to prison in the past 16 years. there will be the 10th but that's not a great track record. so the fact that he's going there, there's something to that, that he's going to prison. but i still think we have a long road ahead of us into getting criminal justice reform and present police brutality reform and seeing what that looks like in the long term. and what i mean, tell me about those those efforts. because obviously you,

you have the george floyd justice and policing act which was passed by the us house of representatives and then hit deadlock. and the, and the republican let senate as it was before. and so now we still awaiting the something tangible from that. but tell me what the shape that road should take, you know, qualified immunity is something that still has to be discussed. most police officers don't get held accountable because of qualified immunity that's still on the table. when the 17 states ban are things like child colds and the need to the neck that we saw with george floyd, that's not a majority. that has to change. there's so much about getting all, i'm sorry, i'm sorry to jump in and interrupt you, but we're actually just hearing from the minnesota. attorney general now takes the time to learn something about the man whose life he took and about the movement that rose up to call for justice in the wake of george lloyd's torture and death.

today is also an important moment for our country. the outcome of this case is critically important, but by itself, it's not enough. my hope for our country is at this moment, gives us pause in allows us to re dedicate ourselves to the real decide to change change that will move us much further along the road to justice. i'm not talking about the kind of change that takes decades. i'm talking about real change concrete change that real people can do. now. i'm talking to lawmakers. it's it's historic moment. there is so much legislation around the country in city councils, county boards, state legislatures in congress that is still waiting to be passed. if these bills were passed, they would make the desk at the hands of law enforcement officers,

less likely would improve police community relations would restore trust. and therefore cooperation improve the lives of officers who want to protect and serve and make everyone safer. every one of these bills at every level of government is critical for helping our families. our law enforcement officers, communities in the country heal. above all, congress has still not passed the george floyd justice and policing act. i call on leaders and members of congress to pass the best and strongest version of this bill that can be passed and to pass it now. president biden called on the congress to pass this bill. it must be past lives or depending upon it, it's just that simple. i'm speaking now to law enforcement leaders that this historic moment law enforcement leaders are in

a position to finally put in place policy training mechanisms and accountability that can build a police department that people can really trust and rely on. and the elected leaders that they answer to must support and empower these law enforcement leaders to do it. where there is distrust between community and police. there is less cooperation between community and police. and at a moment where valley crime is biking across the nation and major cities, we simply cannot afford the distrust the system leaves us all a little less safe. but trust and cooperation must earned. you cannot clean a dirty wound by bringing accountability in law enforcement. you actually promote public safety. i say to those law enforcement leaders, make no mistake. this is something your officers are asking for. in the aftermath

of george lloyd's death, 14 minneapolis police depart, police department officers signed an open letter condemning derek sheldon's actions and embracing the call for reform and change. these 14 officers don't only speak for themselves. they speak for hundreds across the country. these officers and ones like them want you to support officers who treat everyone with dignity and respect . they want you to support officers who are taking risks to speak up and demand that we do better. they want you to hold their colleagues accountable, who refuse to serve communities with dignity and respect. why do officers want accountability? well, think of the 9 year old girl wearing a t shirt and said love across the front who witness george floyd's murder and how she will feel 20 years from now. as she may be speaking to her own children about

whether to trust law enforcement. the damage to derek floyd, crime inflicted upon the reputation of officers is undermining the ability for people to trust in that is very tragic. it's not fair to judge all police officers . my dear children's actions, but some people inevitably will generalize. unless there is true accountability, you just get her here. he'll dirty won't. and when there's little truss sadly, there's little safety. when law enforcement leaders take clear steps to build and accountability and prioritize wellness for their officers, they will have the officers respect, trust between officers and the people de, are dedicated to protecting and serving. let me speak to prosecutors, we believe, and we state and declare that no one is above the law and no one is beneath it. a police officer is not above the law in george floyd, certainly is not beneath the law. when, after a thorough review,

prosecutors believe that they have probable cause that anyone, including someone operating with the authority of law in law enforcement, has violated the law. our prosecutors must be vigorous, visible and swift. i'm speaking to community now. we need every community member to continue the call for a real reform and meaningful change peacefully, constructively. but clearly, this is a moment for change and your call for it is making it happen. this means everyone who wants to live in a society with dignity and respect as core values. everyone who wants to be safe in their homes, in on the street. everyone who wants to get the help that they need. everyone who wants their loved ones to get home safely. this is what we need to do. what will happen if we don't do it? we will slip deeper into

a century long cycle of in action. we can and we must make another choice. the choice to break the old paradigm and in the cycle of inaction, the choice to act for accountability and justice, the choice to transform ourselves in our country. for the sake of all the lives that have been loss for the sake of the terrible, terrible sacrifices that to many families like the floyds i've had to make. and for the sake of the many officers from strive to serve and protect with dignity and honor and high standards, and for the sake of the community. time is up, it's time to act. we're counting on you, we're counting on each other. finally, i want to think this extraordinary of prosecutors. it has been my deepest honor to work with you. you all are the best. and i'm honored to be your colleague. i want to send another strong signal of love and friendship to the floyd family who have

done so much to uphold the dignity of our community. i want to thank the county attorney's office and mike freeman, who have been di by side with us and have done such a good job. and we appreciate their work. and i want to thank the witnesses who courageously stepped forward for george floyd on may 25th to enrich themselves and came back a year later to testify about what they saw. and lastly, i want to take the community for making the call for justice. that's it. thank you very much. right, so what we've just been hearing, we've just been hearing that from the attorney general of minnesota. keith allison, he was speaking about legislation to tackle systemic misconduct and violence and police departments. and he's essentially saying that law is absolutely crucial to restoring trust between the police and the community that they are meant to serve

and protect. and the onus for police reform now shifts to lawmakers and to congress and what they are able to achieve. kelly cancer jackson is still with this and joins me now. and so it was actually speaking about exactly the point that keeps. allison touched on that that has been a bipartisan agreement, vinyl makers on police reform, but we don't seem to have any of the details. the key sticking point in all of this is the possible removal of qualified immunity from civil prosecution for police. can you please explain what that means and the effect it has in cases like this? well, qualified community essentially means that officers can't be sued. officers can't be held accountable for us, huge array of crimes committed by them. and so this clause actually keeps

a lot of cuts even going to trial or being indicted. and so it's something, it's a buffer that many people are advocating to get rid of in order to help hold a higher standard of accountability for cops who are operating out outside of the law or outside of the spirit of the law. and what is your response to the argument that we've had? i mean, obviously critics will say that it's a way of avoiding accountability and ultimately justice. and then so what is your response to those that say that it's necessary to have this in place in order to protect the police so that they are able to tackle crime and to do that jobs and to remove that would impede that work. i do not, i don't think it would impede their work. a matter of fact, i think it would hold all up to it to a higher standard. i think it would make all cops think very clearly about each decision that they make each encounter that they have that they would think about putting the idea of caring for the people serving the people,

protecting the people at the forefront of their position that so much about the police as been protecting themselves and that the very people that they're called is to serve. i think this makes that standard and obligation even higher. what reaction do you anticipate over the coming days and weeks because it's going to correspondence outside the minnesota court room. the feeling was that were unlikely that tension have been running high and on east of to the case of dante right. because there, of course, many other cases that go beyond the trial of, of george floyd that people are upset about. now, what do you think? do you think we could see some sort of protest by those who feel as though this sentence didn't go far enough? i think we will always be a form of activism, of people who are pushing for more and will continue to push for more. these cases

are not going to go away. we know that one or 2 people are shot by the police nearly every week. so even when we have solved the george lloyd case, there are so many other cases coming behind george for that have to be dealt with and have to be rectified. and so you're going to continue to see activism. you're going to continue to see people on the ground pushing for progress, pushing for change. so i would not expect these, these ideas to wayne. why did the case of george floyd capture attention in the u. s. and really all around the world in a way that previous cases, simply haven't i mean, a lot of people credit the pandemic. i think people were paused for a minute. and i think that people have time to look at something in a world where they might otherwise pass this footage by. i think that we even have footage is remarkable that this young woman who had the courage to keep the

camera on their children for those 9 minutes is, is one of the most courageous things i can ever think of. in fact, she was cited by the pulitzer prize foundation for her courageous film work. so that to me, i think has allowed people to really see what happened and edited unfiltered. and that sparked a lot of people to pay attention. and i want to get a so it's a professor, ronald sullivan. obviously he is very good to have stayed with us and been following his story. what do you, what are your thoughts on that video footage? how i mean, i suppose, impossible to emphasize the, the significance i had in this case made it impossible to ignore the disproportionate use of violence. but i'm curious have, has there been footage in similar cases that hasn't resulted in a, in a guilty verdict?

well, not this extreme. so this case is the children cases full of extremes. and that's why i try to tempt down excitement about what this case means. it is an important step, but it's only a 1st step it took. it's an extraordinary set of events to conspire and work together in order for this conviction to happen in this sentence, there was a 9 minute tape fellow police officers broke the blue wall of silence and, and testified, etc. but we've seen other cases where there were cell phone videos of police brutality and police killing, unarmed black men and women that have not resulted in professor sullivan. sorry, that's florida. caught in that just hearing from reverend sharpton. now. thank you

. let us not feel that we had to celebrate because jesters would have been george for i'd never have been killed, would have been the maximum. we've got more than we thought only because we have been disappointed so many times before. 22 and a half years is longer than we've ever got. but shorter than what we should have gotten in the past, let us remember a man last life. this is not a prayer of celebration, it's printed, thank god for given the strength that is family and those activists that stayed in the street to make sure this court had to do what was right. people get here, let me repeat for those in the back because those are the ones that much, that this is the longest sentence they've ever given. but it is not justice. just

this is george roy would be alive, man, just a video that they would have been doing, had they done sentences like this before, may be shelven would not have thought he would have gotten away with it. so let us remember the people that you castigated an attack and marched in minneapolis. then we marched all over the country. that wouldn't stop and we're not going to stop. one sentence does not solve a criminal justice problem. the united states credit must show the same courage. there's jury show at home, police accountable for murder, and make them pay in the court of law maximum for murder, not a token, not a donation, but vo, accountability for the actions that you did. let us.