extent, you know, how far we can let people work at home versus how, how far we move. we went back. that is to see, but we're not going to, we're not going to go back. like before. the technology of the future feels like those much to social distance take anticipating perhaps that social distance it will not entirely become a thing of the past. jonah, how al jazeera barcelona. ah oh there i'm, how am i getting into how, with the headlines at al jazeera, if u. p. s. federal government has a nice to see saw in t grey, the rebel failure and full control of the regional capital mckelly and are conducting more pump operations. federal troops out officials of reportedly abandoned the city. former south african president, jacob's fema has been given 5 days to hand himself in after a judge sentenced him to 15 months in jail. he's been found guilty of contempt for

failure to appear before an inquiry investigating corruption during his time in office. a commission has been hearing allegations, the wealthy family use it friendship with zimmer, to win government contracts and influence policy. mister zoom. i know not litigant is the former president of the republic of south africa who continues to with significant political influence. and in woman dies a great deal of power to insight, to similarity fire court orders. he's actions and any consequences or lead at being closely observed by the public. so if he's conduct is met with impunity, you will do significant damage to the rule of law. they need political position that mr. luma enjoys as the for my president, constitute accept not each of this mentor that justifies a community that she sanction is there,

the forces have demolished the palestinian business and the sil, one neighborhood of occupied east jerusalem. a butcher shop was torn down on tuesday morning. the homes of 13 palestinian families placed the same threats afternoon where the court ordered they be demolished. israel's foreign minister has arrived in the united arab emirates mocking the highest level visit since the 2 countries normalize relations. 9 months ago. your la puda will inaugurate israel's embassy in abu dhabi and its consulate into by is expected there also discuss iran, which both countries you as a top regional threat in iraq funerals have been held for those killed and us air strikes on monday. the attack targeted positions of the iran fact paramilitary and on groups. well, those are the headlines to keep it here on al jazeera, then use continues after insights story, which is next news

news, news. news . an urgent call to end systemic racism around the world. a un report says more action is required to protect people of african descent, and our views is meant to achieve racial equality, lord, enough to end discrimination. this is inside the door. ah hello and welcome to the program. i'm pete, adobe systemic racism needs a systemic response. that's the call to action from the un human rights chief,

michelle ashley. she's released a scathing your report into the treatment of people of african descent, particularly in north and latin america as well as europe. she says, governments should stop denying and start dismantling racism and build trust among minority communities, especially argues the time is right to achieve a turning point for racial equality. she's laid out a 4 point plan to achieve what she calls transformative change. the recommendations include prosecuting law enforcement offices for unlawful killings and reparations for historical racism, as well as funding for activist groups like black lives matter. the report was sparked by the police killing of george floyd in the united states. the former police officer derek shogun, has been sentenced to 22 and a half. he is in prison. stairs must show stronger political will to oscillate action for racial justice who dress and equality through specific time

val coming to what he was false. this will involve, we imagining policing and reforming the criminal justice system. we have consist, deduce discriminatory outcomes for people of african descent. all the approach that tackled both the endemic shortcoming scene long foresman and address systemic races . and the legacies it is built on will do justice to the memory of john floyd, and so many others who lives had been lost or irreparably damaged. well, the un report accuses the police the racial profiling people of african descent and much of north america, europe, and latin america. 2 among the countries mentioned all the u. s. brazil, the u. k. france and columbia. it says the quote dehumanization of people of african descent has better cultural tolerance for racial discrimination and violence. people of african descent disproportionately live in poverty and face serious barriers to accessing basic rights such as education and health care. it

also points that no country has comprehensively accounted for the past and current impact of systematic racism. and the report raises concerns about the excessive policing of black communities, making them feel threatened rather than protected. the . okay, let's get going. let's bring in our guest here today on inside story in geneva we have peggy hicks, director of the matic engagement to the office of the united nations high commissioner for human rights in nottingham. in the u. k, we have patricia frances, a filmmaker and research at nottingham trends university. and from an open we have a plan through banga, a dutch politician and human rights lawyer, a warm welcome to you all the pansies in eindhoven coming to 1st. all we hear specifically talking about only black people or people of color. i think we are talking about people of color, not only black black people, because you have to see about what is happening actually in the world. and what are

the disadvantage that people of color are basically living with and, and so that's why it's important to really talk about that. patricia francis and notting him racism can be overt. it can be very subtle. what forms of racism are we discussing? i think it has to be all forms. i don't think you should distinguish or say one is better than the other. federal damaging. and that means we know where we stand. if it's cold, then actually it's very difficult to tackle and very difficult to really understand what the issues are. so i think it has to be all forms. peggy hicks, nobody is born racist, i guess. because we're all basically rhesus monkeys were born with a fear of lloyd loud noises. and we hard wired to be frightened to being dropped. i

mean, that goes back when we used to live in the trees, millions of millions of years ago. so when it comes to racism, quade to people, pick it up 1st. well, i think one of the things that our work has found is that of course we grow up in society that contain racism at all levels as patricia just said it over to cobra. in many different ways so that we see one of the things we documented in our recent reports is the extent to which children of color are exposed to racism really from the very beginning, particularly for example, in the education system. and just picking up the point that was made earlier about who is affected by this. and we definitely see 2 different sets of, of impacts really. there are people of color more generally. and i would totally agree with the point that brown people, black people suffer from this phenomenon across the globe. but the other issue that we see, of course, is a legacy of flavor. really,

slavery and colonialism in certain places that brings a whole nother character on top of all of that in some societies, but tend to racism was a virus. would we be fighting a losing battle against it? well, i'm an optimist. so i don't think that you know, this battle we will be losing, i think that we should really come together, especially now we know, especially now that we have all this technology, all this knowledge and the world seems to be like a village because you know, in 8 hours, 12 hours you can be at the other end of the world and you know, we are more dependent on each other street. i feel that's especially now it's very important to fight against discrimination races because we are just one human kind . and that's the most important thing we should not judge each other based on something which is so randomly as skin color appends to with all due respect to

you. as a politician, what you've just said is perfectly fine. it sounds a bit like a coke advert from the 1980s as a global village. we should all live in peace and i'm totally not being sarcastic. ok, that's a very nice idea. give me specifics. you're a european politician. how does europe push back against this? you know, i think it's very important that to, to acknowledge what you can do. i think that every individual can do something. i used to be in the city council for like 4 years and now almost 8 years. and i've done some initiative for my city council to fight against racism and to have more diversity at the government level because the government level, especially at the higher position, there is not a lot of diversity, but at the end it was me, as, as you know, civilian basically, who started a law suit to get with misty human rights lawyers and numerous organizations

against the states to make sure that's a racial profiling stops. so it doesn't matter what kind of status you have or what kind of position you have. i do believe that, you know, based on your position, maybe you can do more than others. but i do believe that this is the responsibility for all of us to do something and, and not just to, to make sure that these are beautiful words and beautiful idea. but those ideal can only be putting into practice if we fight for it every day in a way that you can, patricia is, is one of the sort of sub divisible issues here that, too many people already have a finger in the pie and the pie is flavored status quo. they don't actually wanted to change it publicly. they may say racism is terrible. it's got to change, but whether it's politicians who talk to the right, whether it's big business, you've got, you know,

post colonial interest in other parts of the world. they're quite happy with where they're going. the direction of travel for them is an okay thing. yeah, absolutely. you know, i welcome to report about my, my concerned my issue with it is things can really only change if they were really intent. and so those things change if governments acknowledge the inequity, martin life lives, groups, experience and there is a real desire for change to occur. and, and, and my concern mainly is that actually everything vestments in the status quo organizations and individuals now enjoy and existence basically is out the result of colonialism, patriarchy and the legacy of slavery. and so that's what we. ready what we

are in effect, asking them to do is for them to change that the law styles, their way of living their way of existing. and i won't do really, to what extent that would shift not being negative, not being pessimistic, but really trying to be realistic about that. how did, how do we bring change when people also invested life in the way things are now picking hicks in geneva. why is it across europe? there is still so much, i guess the, what i'm looking for here is a nurture surrounding this debate because the, the narrative to me still seems to be borne out of a mindset that says white people will lose out if we discuss racial equality, but race racial based writes race rights,

every one's right. so if people have color, have the rights they are entitled to everyone else benefit surely. yeah, absolutely. and i want to follow up on that an appointment patricia was making. i think her, her skepticism or concern is as well place because that is the phenomenon we've seen that you've described. but at the same time, i think there is so much evidence that anytime you discriminate against or exclude people from society, the society as a whole, loses out in all sorts of ways. think of the opportunity of, of the people who could have made a contribution, who aren't now because they didn't get the education that they deserve, or because they are suffering disproportionate health impacts and may die at the hands of, of cobit or at the hands of police. these are all people who have the ability to contribute to our society and when we discriminate against them, we lose that. at the same time, you know, we have to recognize that what the other part of it, i think goes canada, which is bad communities and people of color have to be heard. and the reality is

there are ways that we can raise the cost of not taking action on us, and we're really supportive of that happening. and so, you know, part of the report that we've worked on, it really looks that peaceful protests and how those protests can be a force for change. and i think you didn't see some movement around the protests that took place after george ford stuff. and we really want to build on that momentum, engage more people in the struggle. and i do think, especially among youth and others, there's lots of opportunity for us to really accelerate this change that we also desperately need to see patricia francis in notting him the death of george floyd at the hands. or the ne rather of derek show than when he lent on his neck with his knee for 9 minutes. aud derek jovan, recently a couple of days ago, got 22 and a half years. he'll probably be out after $1414.00 and a half years when he was looking shocked when the sentence was handed down to him

to perhaps oversimplify this. he still didn't apologize in the courtroom. he literally turned round and in effect said to george floyd's family, i feel your pain. if one police officer had said, sorry, would that have advanced this debate? i'm not sure that it was. and i have to say, i only feel that an apology should be made if it's meant. and so, you know, even when we talk about reparation, you know, i think if you do not mean it, don't say it. and so if that's what he won't say, then you know, leave, it's about basically if he basically is not sorry. and then i don't think he should have said it, i think, yeah, i think there are other things you know, don't force people to do things that they know that they, they have no intentions or have no emotion to do. but there are other things that

we can start to think about. ok. and doing to address my pansy so clearly for patricia frances, there's a difference between saying, sorry for what i did because i understand what i did was wrong when i racially attack somebody or and sorry i got caught up in the united states and in the european union, this debate is kind of encapsulated in this idea of fusion politics, with grassroots, people like the 3 of you, my pans, who talk to people who live with racism. they're on the receiving end of racism. and you try to filter that back up into the political system, but that doesn't seem to be much momentum to get real change here. why is that? well, you know, i talked a bit about diversity and i think that's very important because, you know, i've seen when i came into the local politics. that's the issues that i was

addressing. actually was in gratian was racism, you know, not because that's my, i studied about it but, but also because this is part of my experience, this is part of my life. this is part of by what, what i but i know and, but you know, to do to the other people who are sitting there. most of them are white, they have different kind of experience. they went to the same kind of universities and, and therefore for them it's not an issue which is part of the experience. so when such an issue comes, i believe that it's very hard for lots of them to really understand the issue. what is it, what is it about? and to also understand the urgency, you know, for some people, it's just new, like what's happening in the world. so, i do believe that it's very important to,

to have a very diverse, a body. you know, political body. do you do shall a body legislative body, but also the executive should be very diverse so that we can also use, you know, not only the knowledge of the people, but also the experience of the people and also the network of the people to actually accelerate that change that needs to be done. does this come down to peggy hicks in geneva political will? does this come down to education wrapped up inside legislation? because if you are, for example, the italy and integration minister, you will get hate crime directed at you online. if you are a woman of color, you're a black woman in london, you are 5 times more likely to die in childbirth and across the european union. the latest that suggests that 60 percent of people in color within the e, you do not believe they get the same health care provision point of contact compared to the white man, a woman sitting right next door to them. absolutely,

and that's the same sort of discrimination and just proportion and effect that we saw not just in, in europe, but drug, the research that we did focusing very much on the u. s. and latin america as well . it's the extent of those types of levels of discrimination and it's consistency across those jurisdictions. this is really terrifying, but you asked if, if it takes only political will in education and that's what we're talking about. i think those are 2 key ingredients, but political will can be generated as well by all those voices. and i was talking about that if, if people demand change and a broad range of people demand change, that also can, can change the, the way that political will is exercised on even a change away from denying the extent of this problem and disparaging those who bring up these issues as we saw in the wake of the racial justice protest and the u

. s. 2, at least accepting the fact that these are real issues that need to be addressed and in devoting resources and attention to researching and how we make them better in our society. that shift alone will, will change things from the last and say that we need better data as well. one of the things that we've really looked at is the extent to which we can't even quantify some of these issues because we just don't collect the disaggregated data on race that we need to, to be able to, to really document the full scope of this problem. and that's part of solving as well. patricia, this doesn't happen in a vacuum. people, individuals, i mean here, individuals populate companies, they populate thing, thanks. we populate political parties, say people choose not to be racist or they choose to be racist over or covert. how do you get to them? you know, pizza, i actually want to stay in between where people perhaps are, but don't realize that they do things unconsciously,

but don't realize the impacts of their actions. and so i think what we have to do, i think, certainly since may 25th last year. and that has been the opportunity now for dialogue and discussion where organizations and individuals non black, non march likely next life groups are talking about race and talking about discrimination and inequity. and i really think that that needs to happen, but not it needs to happen with others, not just the non why. not just the white groups having those discussions, but having input from racialized street so that they are absolutely clear and stop to understand their actions and be the implication of 3 impacted their actions conscious or not. and i think that's where that, that's part of what we actually need to start doing now depends when it comes to

appointing people to certain jobs. if that's the next stage from education and legislation, how do you know when to stop? because if you then go down that road, you may be heading towards a situation where your quotes are feeling. so you're saying something like, you know, say for example, where the national broadcaster in one of the major european countries. therefore, we've got to be seen to have 50 percent of our own people, for example, are people of color which is fine. but then if you go too far, you maybe then putting people into the jobs for the wrong reason, and that can be applied to all the fortune 500 countries, count companies as well as all the big top flight foot c, 100 companies that operate within the u yeah, you know, when i get a question like this, i always ask themselves, how is it possible for instance, that, you know, you have so many board members and so many companies and almost all of them are like white male, a certain age. you know, is that not, you know,

she's maybe implicitly away that's positive discrimination. you know, i wasn't, wasn't there a positive discrimination for all these time is so that, you know, there would be so many white male in a certain position. so now basically what we are trying to do is to fix the balance to, to make sure that there is a right balance. and normally you should say, you can, you know, just make sure that there is an inclusive this includes just fine, that will make sure that people from different, you know, all diversity will enter it into the position. but that's not enough. so not only the inclusive environment, it is necessary, but maybe also the, the quote us. and we should also be able to look for it to, to, to really go out and scout people and to make sure that they are well trained. and

to make sure that they really get those positions. so i think that those kind of things are very important that and when to get those position, make sure that they can develop themselves even better and to get even higher position than the one that they are sitting in. so for me, i think it's just, you know, making back, you know, putting the balance back and, and when the balance is back, okay, then we can have a new frame and then maybe it will regulate itself. patricia frances, there and nothing on that idea of training. is it as simple as regularly, not just training people to go into say, being a police man, women, not just training them to run a business, not just training them in a custom, a contact role, whatever their job may be. but literally training them to be aware that they're talking to a human being because it's called afro phobia across some of the european countries . because if you're a black person on the streets,

you are 20 times more likely to be stopped by a copper because you're a black guy. i agree. i think it's not just, i mean training has to happen, but you know, training can off today and then the phone for and, and we go back to how we were behaving prior. so i think it's that she was, and i think it really needs to be an ongoing situation where there is very conscious, well, i cool self conscious reflection in the actions. so in things that i recently had a situation where and situation was really quite interesting because normally you have a feeling. if you are part of the marginalized group, you go into a, perhaps a white space. you have a feeling in the sense that you're not really able to confirm it. okay,

hi this patricia, i'm gonna push which i apologize. i just want to put one very quick point. lastly to peggy hicks in geneva. peggy, in the final 20 seconds of the program. how and when do we know if this situation will improve? i think we have to look for change at the national level. at the local level, we need to stop tonight and start dismantling the systemic racism. and i think we'll hear it from the people who are engaging us, so we should listen to black life matter and the families of the victims of this abuse, they'll let us know. we've made real change. that's a fantastic clarion cole point to wrap up our discussion. thank you to, i guess they were peggy hicks, patricia francis, and were panza by manga and thank you to, for your company. you can see the show again via the website. i'll just go dot com, talk to us on facebook, facebook dot com, forward slash ha, inside story on twitter at a j inside story. that's it with us. we'll do it all again at the usual time, tomorrow, from a piece adobe and everyone here on the team. and thanks for watching. we will see

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a majority of them who've been speaking to say they just want to be able to go back home. they want to be able to access the farms that they've left behind. many of them have told us horrific story.