it is city that suffered badly, but through and is now saying, thank you to all those who make it happen. gabriel sandow disease your ah tough a quick check of the headlines here on algeria. police. and i hate to say that the rest of 2 people in connection with the assassination of president 70 movies for other suspects were killed in a gun fight. in hong kong, $47.00 pro democracy activists charged on the china is national security law. a back in court. the charges are related to their roles and the pro democracy primary actions in july last year, civic apologize more from outside the court house and hong kong. 47 are accused of conspiracy to commit a version for holding unofficial primary elections for now delayed legislative council elections now they what they were trying to do is narrow down the scope of

who would be able to win seats. the hong kong government that under the national security law, has accused of using this as a ploy to overthrow hong kong government. now, the 47 up there, up in the courtroom reads at the list of who to of hong kong pro democracy movement . many of them are very familiar and then today and would say familiar to all just there are 2 been who spoken to us have been very vocal about the democracy movement here. south africa for my president, jacob zoom in, police custody of turning himself in late on wednesday night. a court sentence him to 15 months in jail to show up at a corruption climate last week was grab charges 10 from his time and office. emergency workers in florida say there's 0 chance of funding survivors. after building partly collapse last month. rescuers have spent 2 weeks searching through the rubble, but haven't found anyone alive since to not be apartment block filled with your

with the 54 people are concerned that the 86 covers still remain on accounting for a global death toll from cobit 19 has passed. 4000000 more than one and a half 1000000 of those debts are recorded in just 3 countries. the united states, brazil, and india crisis is becoming a race between vaccine rolled out from the highly contagious delta there in cuba, deploying more medical workers to western province of my tongue, where the health system is on the brink of collapse. delta, very intense field hospitals and created a shortage of medical supply. wednesday, you posted a record of 3600 infection in a single day. i think when i said what those were the headlines and he's continuous . yeah. now jesse are often such story sessions and watch it, and you can watch out for english streaming live, and i do see channels plus thousands of our programs. award winning documentaries and debt support. the subscriber, you choose dot com,

forward slash al jazeera english farm is in the netherlands of back on the streets, protesting against fans to shut down foam to reduce nitrogen emissions. its issue will say the plan will reduce pollution the mean for the future of farming in the netherlands band to elsewhere. this is inside story. ah hello, welcome to the program. i'm kim vanelle. agriculture accounts for nearly 27 percent of all greenhouse gas emissions that humming our environment. and as the world tries to come back on pollutants to save the planet, people source of food could be effected. soil and fertilizers release nitrogen,

which has proven to be a much stronger cause for global warming than carbon dioxide. the access gas often goes into waterways and contaminates drinking supplies. it's also released into the air polluting skies and putting people's health at risk. the netherlands is one of many nations fence being taking measures to reduce its nitrogen pollution. and the number of farm may have to because down. and that's an good many dodge farmers who protested against the plan on wednesday. we'll bring in our guests in just a moment. first, this report from step balsam and beg pharma from all of them that have taken their practice also carry inside. we are here to the government center in the hey, they're basically fighting for the survival couple of years already. the government has allows that nitrogen emissions have to be significantly reduce that cost by in farming. so that would mean that farms will have to close out and got some has to be reduced. and also also the prompts have to move out where lots of questions

about their future. so they want some answer from the government. what will happen to a mental works that said, the government is not even going enough with their reduction. they actually suggest that we duction more capital have to disappear. that's also a want some clear answers about their future. lots of young people here. they also wants to know can fill that out for inside story. let's take a closer look at the impact of nitrogen pollution on the environment. nitrogen is about 300 times more powerful than carbon dioxide that heating or atmosphere, and it stays a long time spending an average of 114 years in the sky. for breaking off depletion, we ozone layer scientists estimate nitrogen account for nearly 6 percent of all greenhouse gas emissions. and study conducted last year found nitrous oxide.

emissions rose by 30 percent in the last 4 decades, and 2018 us experts concluded the world needs to comp the amount of nitrogen emissions in half to avoid disastrous consequences. the right of time to bring in our guests in the hague. we have shocked by the talk, a former mayor of westland in the netherlands and chairman of the netherlands, agricultural and horticultural association. and so now we have hilda are not the varies a campaigner for sustainable agriculture and diversity at greenpeace netherlands. and in reading u. k. richard tiffany: a professor at the university reading and its former director of the center for food security, a very warm welcome to you all mr. tiff and i'd like to begin with you we. we spoke earlier about the power of nitrogen in terms of being a pollutant. what happens to the world if we continue expelling nitrogen at the

rate that we are now? what happens to the air to the water, to bio diversity? well, the key thing here is that we're applying nitrogen to agricultural land. well that does is it increases the rights of c missions of nitrous oxide. and nitrous oxide is one of the most polluting greenhouse gases. so there is so fast impact will be that we will continue to see kind of a warming as a result of human activity. and then on top of that, we applying nitrogen to, to the soil can potentially affect the naturally co system. just the plants that were growing, outcompete the prompts that naturally resident in a particular area. and probably more importantly can start to to know how started to damage significantly and will continue to do so. to damage the soil,

which we use this medium. obviously for growing growing most of our crops. okay, so there is a lot at stake. i think it's important that we, that we bear that in mind as we have this discussion held on the degrees. let's talk about the netherlands. how much does, does livestock farming contribute to the nitrogen emissions? if we look at the total coming out of the netherlands, if we look at the netherlands, livestock is actually the biggest source. it's responsible for about 665 percent of all the emissions that precipitate on our protective nature areas. ok, so it's pretty, pretty big. the dutch plan is to curb nitrogen emissions by what is it 40 percent by 2023 in areas that are better currently being impacted by nitrogen pollution. mr . shock run the talk. what are your thoughts on the dodge plan to curb these emissions? well let me say that's we have been 30 years

the let me say the pollution off, nitrogen is increased. which 68 percent. that a yes. but let me say there are new laws and in this new norms, what else f? there are, let me say computer systems who said that we are the greatest pollution and show are all, all these things in the netherlands, but our bama sec, we can do downsize these malls if we can have the system that we can measure, and gauss outside, outside the cow outside the stables and inside the 4th. ok. so i just want to be clear what you're saying is that the farmers are being unfairly targeted because

actually pollution from nitrogen is down 67 percent in 30 years and all we're dealing with is new norms. what do you make of that hill down a degrees? well, unfortunately, our nature doesn't really care about norms because we've had such a huge number of animals in the netherlands. nature has been suffering for a long time. and as a result of our nature, most vulnerable protected areas, their specific nature that's already on a tipping point. right now, and the problem here is that based on the habit of the directive, we are obliged to protect nature from deteriorating. and because government has not adequately dealt with this issue years ago, which should have happened. now we're in a really, really difficult position and the problem has actually become worse. so what we need now is for government to take the lead and drastically reduce nitrogen emissions to at least adhere to the the legislation again and to help farmers with

an integral plan for big transition of our agricultural system. so what do you make of the current legislation and the current targets to reduce these emissions doesn't go far enough. it doesn't go far enough. unfortunately, we had a very well known ecologist calculate what the effects would be for the most run vulnerable nature. and the conclusion actually is that it's not going to be enough and for legally feasible approach in a long term reduction goals, which shows that you're going to achieve your natural goals in the long run. and you need to act as fast as possible. and then this is not only a nature crisis, but we're also having to achieve our climate goals. and the only integral integral solution here is to drastically reduce the number of animals and to help farmers to a more sustainable way of producing our food. ok, i want to come back to you, mr. shocked by the talk. there are, as we've seen, people out protesting farm is concerned about their livelihoods. what are the

concerns with their frustrated because we have a blend with form of an old joe's, especially to who said they don't want to support the farmers like re beef the order organization just ok when they fall off refrigerate. let's work together. let's go bridge and work together on a group plan and we had a good plan. just our days. when did to the nature of organizations of the annual and jos. what's this good? what is the good plan? does this except the plan? what does that plan look like? you have a plan would, doesn't, and just and sure 40 percent reduction. this one second is scope. reading with our farmers and the nature organizations and also educational organizations. and

3, let's know a system making. it sends us inside inside the stable, outside the stable and in the forest. ok. so you want different emissions targets for different parts of the farm and the in the process. i can see you shaking your head there. ms. hill, there are not, there is, can you tell me why? well, obviously it's always good that there is, you know, i me go, she ation and that a plan comes out that is more than the current legislation because it actually, i think it supports our argument that the current legislation is not enough. however, like i said, we need to adhere to legal criteria, and this is simply not enough. we need to have a long term plan which shows that what we say 90 percent emission reduction is necessary in order to achieve your long term nature goals. and if you focus on very

short term reduction goals, even though 40 percent is an important step in between a, it's not fast enough for the most vulnerable nature and be it focuses a lot on technological innovations. and there's a lot of questions about how effective these are. and secondly, if you're going to put all these farmers that are already frustrated, which is something that we understand through the whole process of remodeling all their stables. and then because the reduction goals need to be strict are afterwards both for climate purposes and for nature purposes, we have to acknowledge that the number of animals needs to be reduced. so you're going to frustrate them afterwards as well. if the conclusion has to be that we have to reduce the number of animals as well. so let's just work together on this and try and you know, create a plan like plan that we presented last year when we can have as many farmers as possible that work with an environmental boundary. ok, i can see you shaking your head mr. van to talk, i'll come to you in a moment,

mr. tiff and you've been waiting patiently. i'm wanting to get your take on whether you think there are any areas which can be when, when not just in the netherlands, but around the world where you have governments who want to reduce pollution from nitrogen. and you have farmers who are worried about their livelihoods. and their ability to continue the outputs that they need in order to make a good living. are there any areas which you can see more broadly that could be when, when absolutely do nothing, you know, just to, to, to respond to some of the comments being made earlier as well. i think they're really need, you know, they're happy to be to main folks to the policy agenda in this area. the 1st is to engage with pharmacy to, to achieve cooperation. and what i mean by that is actually, you know, pharmacy potentially are the best environmentalists that there are. because preserving the environment on the farm, preserving the condition of preserving bio diversity is actually in the long term

interests of making sure that there remains as productive as possible for the long term. but the danger the areas, the problem is that the, the cycles that we're talking about are much wrong. and even that going cycles that farmers have to deal with, with that with a conventional production and the, the, the consequence of that no longer and cycles is that the rewards are so far in the future that the farm up discounts them and doesn't. and really doesn't have a good business reason for working towards those goals. and secondly, that extremely risky. and thomas are notoriously risk averse individuals in, in the language they make decisions. so the 1st part of the policy implementation needs to be, 1st of all, to bring some of those to create an environment to create a framework in which some of those future benefits the promise will, will receive,

can be brought forward. and secondly to, to create frameworks in which the risk, the farmers would otherwise experience can be transferred to other sectors in the way in which we're used to transferring risk using insurance type type type products. so that's the 1st part of the policy. and then the 2nd part of the policy has to be regulation. but the type of regulation that needs to be there has to also allow for trade ability in permits. again, i thought for emissions so that we don't necessarily constrain ourselves to reach the production system that is defined by, by the regulation. but we create a situation in which, which is fluid and dynamic. so that emissions end up being allocated if you'd like to the most efficient to where it is best for those emissions to be from an environmental on a business perspective. okay. i think that's when mr. sharp learned to talk,

i want to bring you back in to get your, your take on what's been said. i will also want to ask you, part of the dutch plan is to buy out farms to buy out bombs which are being seen as being pollutant. how, how is that being received from farmers and how costly is it for farmers to reduce emissions on their existing farms? yeah, let me say, let me give you a clear answer. so form of don't like it. but let me say the majority of the farmers are agree with that plan, this one. secondly, what you said is how the boots for which these, these issues, if one innovation is very clear and there are, let me say,

a great, great fall in the middle. it is late last night and day have a wonderful plan of emissions losing pollution in the stable a good system. secondly, some of them will be stopped gauze, their elder elder and 3rd one there are almost who have a lot of lose of nitrogen. then there is an opportunity to get a new one place to another place and that's why our pharma sets ok, i'm not agree with all these things, but it is a way to continue and to go make a step forward, miss hilda, another res. i want to bring you back in. what about individual responsibility?

i mean we're talking about the livestock sector being a large producer. and what if people just were encouraged to eat less meat or to eat less dairy? could that be effect or hear? well, i think of both, both needs to happen, but the thing about the netherlands is that we export almost 2 thirds of all the meat and dairy that we, that we produce here. and our country is left with all the manure and all the, the consequences for our nature and for climate. so it has to happen hand in hand. but if we look at, well, the biggest problem here is the production side. and at the same time, yes, dutch people as well, they need to drastically reduce their consumption of meat and dairy. but we cannot just wait for consumption to go down, because that's also very complicated. if you look at marketing for me to cetera, it all has, this has to happen at the same time and it has to happen. this is shock than to talk. i can, i can see you want to jump in there. what did you want to add?

well let me say, why is the wrong policy to export very googe foods of products to other countries. especially what we are doing is a lot of our groups. our healthy goods are going to our, our neighbor, germany. what's the point of that? let me say the population is growing from 20423210 1000000000 people. so what is what is wrong when the lives that people are telling is wrong? because is healthy food message if and i'd like to bring you in. if we were to extrapolate this out for a global audience, what are some of the biggest nitrogen pollutants globally? what moves the being taken globally to try and reduce nitrogen pollution?

and how might that impacts food chains and food security? well, this is the biggest police just as far as national concerned china and india we, we know that some of those countries are, are intervening to encourage better management of crops and livestock to, to make sure that nitrogen has been used more efficiently. the consequences for type of food security aside says, you know, potentially serious we've got, we have got a population on the planet, is that he's growing massively at the moment. large parts of the world, eating plant based diets. it's probable as it comes increase and we're seeing this in, in china india, that those parts of the world will probably increase their demand for making dairy

products. and what's that got a new planet for the health of our planet? it's not good news. and as we've already talked about in the lifestyle sector, in particular, is responsible for an image, a lot of emissions of greenhouse gases, but it's not just the lives of the, the horrible sector also when it's formed intensively. and it's a lot of a lot of nitric, nitric nitrous oxide, so it's beholden and we believe this that it's but holding on on those of us that live in developed countries to take more than our fair share the but in terms of, in terms of correctness, correct in this challenge, partly we have the technology available to us to, to do that. but also because our levels of consumption are still significantly higher than that, then there are another possible hilda,

another res green piece recently sent a summons to the, to government. the 1st step, i guess, in legal action, and it's not to jan policies, were a big part of that. is that a payoff stand or do you really think that you can hold the government to account and get some sort of change to legal action? while the nitrogen crisis has actually affected the dutch economy for a while already a judge already ruled that the way we deal with permits for emissions is legally not feasible. and so we've of course, watched the development since. and what we see now is with the legal legislation that's trying to address the issue that it's really not enough. so the only thing we're doing is showing government that they have a legal obligation to at least not let nature further deteriorate the rates which has been happening for years now. and we all, as humans need nature,

farmers need nature as well. so we're just doing this out of concern for our future and future of our children. so, so we're, we're just trying to get the government to adhere to, to the bottom line of what is legally necessary. okay, mr. shock van to talk when we're running out of time, but i want to come back to you. how do you foresee these protest playing out? do you think that farmers are putting any real pressure on the government to to change course? yes, we do have a good pressure on our government because some of jose, like green beef, are at me say have some white white places. why fi white white opportunities? let me say we are. our farms are the best in the world of efficiency. a lot of farmers can learn in the se, in the world, from our fall. secondly,

healthy food like diary to let me say fruit and vegetables our and to been those like our farmers, will be make a step to emission the nitrogen odyssey. definitely gotta help each other just before we go, i want to ask you, we're down to one minute. i want to ask you, do you accept that farming intensive farming in the netherlands is impacting negatively the environment through pollution from nitrogen? no, i don't know. i don't agree about that because inside fami has sometimes very good, very good standards, high standards of let me say reducing emission policy. thank you very much for all your time shop and the talk. he'll get another reese and richard tiffin and thank

you to for watching a very lively debate. you can see it again, any time via visiting our website, al jazeera dot com, the 3rd, the discussion. you can go to our facebook page that facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter. handle is at ha, inside story. you can follow me at kim vanelle from macon vanelle and the entire team here at inside joyce. the bye for now. phoenix. ah. the news? the

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