on a court in japan has handed down prison sentences to 2 americans who helped form nissan, chairman, cala, scorn, flea, the country. michael taylor, a u. s. army veteran received 2 years in jail. his son peasy was given a sentence of a year and a month. they pleaded guilty to help him go and escaped 11 on the back in 2018. the ex nissan boss is facing charges of financial misconduct in japan, which he denies. ah, hello, this is al jazeera and these are the headlines. the 2nd phase of filling the controversial ground ethiopian renay, san stamp is complete. the issue has res, tensions with its neighbors. egypt and through don wants a binding deal over the finding and the dams operations. katherine story has the letters from addis ababa. the minister doctor celeste, you bet kelly said that there was no major problems. he did not affect amy water

levels. he said that the amount of water that has been stored is enough to run to tar binds to generate electricity. he also said the range this season are very good, so that helped. this is a milestone for a few p. a many europeans have been waiting for the completion of this project. millions of them do not have access to electricity and they funded this project. indonesia has reported a record number of corona virus death in the past 24 hours. nearly 1400 people have died due to the virus. but it is reporting the lowest number of new infections within the past 2 weeks. and still battling an oxygen shortage and now has more daily infections in india and brazil. meanwhile, england is celebration what it calls freedom day. as the government has lifted almost all corona virus restrictions. that's as it reports still more than 50000 new cases a day. scientists and health expense say infections could now double in weeks the

1st guantanamo bay prisoner released under the biden administration, has been repatriated to morocco. abdullatif nasser was captured by pakistani agents and 2001 and was sent to guantanamo the following year. now, so is accused of involvement with the taliban that was never charged. he was cleared for release. 5 years ago. germany, chancellor has described the situation in areas hardest hit by floods as surreal and terrifying angler. michael has visited one of the effected villages as a massive cleanup gets underway across western europe. phones belonging to hundreds of journalists, activist annotations have been hacked by governments using spyware, owned by israeli surveillance company, the and a so group, he's ready fun has called the investigations, findings, exaggeration and baseless. while there is the headlines for hell, we'll have more view off the inside story. ah,

ah, ah, belgium takes back 6 women and their children suck in a syrian camp for ice or fight or some other european countries have been more reluctant to do the same. so should the families have captured, foreign fighters be allowed to return home? this is inside story. ah . hello and welcome to the program. i'm a jim jim. it's been 2 years since iceland was defeated in syria. thousands of fighters and their families were captured and held in refugee camps. they include

women and children from europe, who followed their husbands to serial. governments have been debating whether to take them back on friday, belgium repatriated, 6 women, and their 10 children. the government decided in march to allow mothers and kids under 12 to return voluntarily. belgium's federal prosecutor says the women will be charged with terror fences and the children taken into care. other foreigners in the syrian camps are urging their governments to let them return home. we've had to so, but not least, we want our children to learn. our children should be able to read it. right. and count, want them to have normal school and i want our children to develop. they have no development here. the only thing they do is that the throw stones and jump on cars just because they have nothing to do here. with them. the un has urged 57 nations to repatriate their citizens from camps fighting humanitarian concerns. more than 64000 people live in a hole and rose camps in northern syria,

where conditions are dire. france has allowed 35 children to return since 2019, but the nation has largely resisted repatriation. in germany, $22.00 women and children arrived home by the end of last year, out of an estimated $1200.00 citizens. russian media say at least 150 children had been repatriated as february last year. the u. k has removed the citizenship of many people linked to iceland syrian camps. one of the most controversial cases was that of schoolgirl. show me my back home, who fled to syria in 2015. ah . all right, let's bring, i guess, joining us on skype from cardiff. aimen jawad l to me, me a research fellow at george washington university's program on extremism and joining us from beggars close to bravo spain. chris phillips, former head of the u. k. national counterterrorism security office. a warm welcome to you both. thanks so much for joining us on inside story today. amy,

let me start with you today. you have been to at least one of these camps and syria . i believe it was in 2016. what did you see there? how dire were the conditions and from your perspective is the repatriation of mothers and children the right strategy. thank you. by me. yeah, i just to clarify, i was in, it was during 2018. so that's the more recent period i was in the camp in a nice area which is just north of the day. it was a separate section of the camp dedicated to these foreign mostly foreign mothers. they were also iraqis, considering that by in georgia of suspected i s members to members who will be held in tension. their conditions will bury dia and i didn't see how sustainable to keep holding these women and children in these can

indefinitely. i mean, the country do me take them back collectively, not just they take the children back and leave the women die because and because for instance, it is also enjoying the women myself. none of the goals would openly admit to being men having team members of the organization involved. but this is something for their home countries to investigate when they take them back. because there were women involved organizationally in the state. and as for the children of all that they didn't choose people and in those circumstances and is national of those countries to which they long have a right, some kind of, you know, country cruise. let me get your perspective on this. what do you think is repatriation when it comes to women and children the right thing to do and why? well, i think it's incredibly difficult situation. an old countries across the world seem

to be having the same issue with whether they should read these people or not. certainly the children have done that. so nothing wrong. and i can see no reason why they shouldn't be returned to the country where they are sickly. they have a passport and a right to live, but i think the women are a different thing altogether and they chose to be there just been a member of this. it's something that is so bad that and the things that they're talking about that they want for their children were exactly the things that they were there. organization was stopping for the, for the rest of the syrian people. so i think certainly the children have a right to come back. i think the parents, the, the mothers and fathers, really, they committed that crimes in that country and that's where they should be punished . i'm and let me ask you something else. in december, germany in finland, repatriated women and children from these camps. last month, the netherland repatriated dutch woman and her 2 sons,

and now belgium has repatriated 6 mothers and 10 children. does this signify to you that we will start seeing more european countries repatriated, their citizens going forward? i think the repatriation being it is, is backed by duping the repaid raisins will eventually happen. but it looks to me as if it will be a long and protracted pros. they'll be a lot of kicking back again to try to stop doing so and issue a political pressure and so on. but i mean, i don't, i don't waste and you have, we just leave the leave them in the camp. i don't think i can just continue indefinitely. and on the issue, i had to be subject to legal prose that i think the bible, the big problem you have is that this is ne, syria, which is controlled by the fact o control by the ministration,

not by central government in damascus. so where are they going to be if you were going to try them in theory, if you're going to try mothers and fathers of the, of the children and theory is going to vitamin syria. whereas did you recognition then, or all those legal process actually would make more sense to do it back back in the home countries. chris same and there was just talking about some of the political pressures involved in the decision to try and repatriate some of these european women and children to their home countries. let me ask you when it comes to the repatriation process, how difficult is it overall? i'm talking about legally i'm talking about logistically, what are the challenges involved? well, i think the big logistical problem that you have actually to begin with is actually proven the children who they say they are and, and the women. they say that, but then you come down to the fact that this is, this is the view and it's often shown

a view that they'll come back to their own country. they will go in front of the court, and the court will probably find them guilty and they'll go away and they won't live in that country because they'll be in prison. but the truth of the matter is that none of these women little may suddenly fight much of a trial in their own country if they are convicted and let's not, let's not forget the difficulties of convicted someone of an offense. this happened when the other side of the world where a lot of the victims the witnesses have been killed. how are you going to get to a trial in a western country put some into prison for a sustained period of time you're, you're not. and the truth of the matter is they will go back to their own countries . they will be released into society, and society will pick up the problem in the bill with it. and i think we need to be realistic. you know, courts in the west are not designed to deal with this kind of this kind of offense . and you're chris to say that chords in the west really are designed to try to

have these kinds of trials. i want to ask you 1st, if some of the women who have returned to these countries are actually facing trial, i mean, are these trials actually being conducted currently? and secondly, do you believe that's the case? do you believe the trials in the court in these countries are able to actually prosecute these cases? my time on john specifics about trials involving women and i have been involved in issues in the mail to way involved and follow mail webmail, who's involved in the line that was repatriated to his own country. but i don't think it's entirely unfeasible to be able to hold a trial. i mean, if the issue was to try to establish whether a particular woman was a member or was that the organization involved with the state? that's not the right. that's not necessarily the committee unfeasible. the prue is

no breakdown of all these buying. they did leave all compiled extensive bureaucratic men, bureaucratic records on members of the organization, family details. it's not the old days. all those data have been lost to retrieve ably on that 30 the case. you don't have to rely on witness testimony, your testimony, people who, who, who, who had to be so i would actually be skeptical of it being already unfeasible to try women try people on this. you know, i to be members of the bank state. i'm in a quick follow up with regards to a point that you were making. i know that there is a you in investigative mechanism unit had that was essentially set up to try to help collect evidence when it came to crimes committed by i saw atrocities committed by ice. or do you happen to know if this investigative mechanism is

assisting with any of the trials that are going on? i can say yes, i believe that some of the evidence gathered has actually been been used in court proceeding specifically in trying to establish whether a sickly national with a member of the state and he'd been repatriated and his name actually did turn up in the database all the records that i think could be found by, by iraqi forces. so this is why i say it's not necessarily. it's not at $930.00, feasible to conduct these trials. i mean, for example, one criteria and you can establish whether someone was

a member of buying state and whether that person had something, the goal is to have a number. and that's a very be a mom, a membership with you, your aquatic reco, chris. i know you were talking about the security concerns when it comes to repay treating you know, some of these women i want to ask you about the fact that, you know, rights groups have repeatedly warned that the situation in these camps. they risk developing into not just a human rights disaster, but many of these analysts and rights groups have said that these camps, if they are left the way they are, could potentially be breeding grounds for radicalization. so how much does that concern you and do you think that the threat from the potential radicalization in these camps is greater than the threat of the repatriation process when it comes to security, especially in the u. k. well, we have to remember that these are radicalized people, and they've been radicalized with saying that members of this been very radicalized

. so to say that it getting worse is a little bit ridiculous. there anything i would agree on. obviously we have now another group of children that are likely to grow up into potential issues and radical individual sites. so the argument i think is more to take away the children from the parents, which is not, are not always the very good thing seen as a good thing to do, to remove them from the influence adults that are in those groups. but what i, what i would say is that the thought of bringing people back to the u. k to germany, to italy, etc, is going to solve the problem when we still have this fighting on the different name, sometimes across africa. the, you know, the battle of the war. again, this is not i very, they're still there and looking to, to regroup so, so we have to be a little bit bowl. careful about, you know, the pressure that we put on our society to bring people back that are then going to

radicalize people. ready in our own countries, i'm whether it's the u. k. or anywhere else, actually bringing people back and begun to me. me a boom is a good example of this where, you know, she is that she, they know that she's saying that the later, right back to be even though she probably wasn't, that's all we're jane as opposed to girl of someone that can get away with it. and come back to their own country. hence there, i think the u. k is, is very low, a lot of return. but i think the children are, did different matter and to stop them becoming by the problems in the future. maybe they should be returned to their own countries. chris, may i just follow up with you about one aspect of what you're talking about when you're talking about children, potentially being separated from their parents? do we yet know what the legal procedure is for that? how do governments go about trying to repatriate children if say the parents don't agree with that decision or don't want to be separated from them? do you happen to know what goes into that and what the challenges are?

well, no, i don't. and i would suggest it probably won't happen to let the parents agree to it, but, but we've already heard that the idea in belgium is to bring the women back. they go to prison potentially. although i would that, that they will go to prison and the children taken to care and then you know, to yet like the worst case scenario, the, the, the parents are returned and they can go back to their parents. so i think we got to be realistic. listen with these people that, that have been fighting and have the west do we bring them back? because at the end of the day, they're not going to go to prison. if they got a prison, it will be for a very short period of time. they will be living in your local communities, potentially causing the problems that the children will be going to the school with your children. and i was think it's the wealthy people complicate about this,

but actually they will go and live at some stage in the future. and the other people that would be rather late because of them returning should be, should be considered as well. i'm in the reporting on this subject when it comes to children being repatriated is that they will go when to care. do we know what that entails? do they get the kind of psycho social care psychological support that they need going forward? because these are children that have faced, you know, severe amounts of trauma? correct? yes, they had base plumber and many of them would. they lost their parents. so last one bit parents or better until the last a sibling on more than one 5th laying down and day. it's not clear how is back home will be able to provide appropriate care or appropriate therapy pulled . and i'm not playing college is stora expert in that field so i can come in too

deeply. but it, it, it will definitely pose. it will definitely pose a challenge, but i think longer you leave them in the camp. then the greater the challenges would pose in the future. i mean, suppose you just less than that was actual kind of future is that all then in this, in this region console by your appointed ministration, whose own status in looking in the future is not entirely clear with the way theory is divided in the been divided into these different zones of tobacco control, with various foreign powers, exist name to be happy created a frozen state static conflicts. but then you have these buried empties of origin and tyrants. we don't have the national recognition, christine repatriation to belgium. that seems to be a result of a shift in policy by the belgian government. do you happen to know what brought

about that shift? and also for the time being at least will repeat creations only happen on a case by case basis. well, that's a way of looking at the moment, but i'm not big each country is coming under pressure to take back their own paper . no, i'm not understandable. i don't think because i want these people in their country and certainly be the guardian for them to be spending all their lives, having to go on a lot of women and children. so i can understand what is happening and i am totally agree with is point to view that leaving children in those camps. there's not a great thing to do. but of course, you do have to bear in mind that if you bring the children back, then it seems you're going to have to bring the parents back as well. and if you bring the parents back, you know, let's not pretend that these people are going to go to prison for 152030 years because they're not going to be in society and, and all the problems that causes them. and the view that the police can monitor them and keep them on the surveillance. you know, realistically,

that's not going to happen. so we are just putting our own people in a lot of danger. i mean, do you have a response to what chris was just saying? that it looked like it looked like you were reacting. i mean my, my general view of it in the grand scheme of things is that if i commit a crime abroad and i get tried in the, in that country and presumably do prison time. what reason is that a start back country from that country for the, for me back to my own, even though i might, if i committed that crime, that they, it was bad. good. whatever. i might not pose the really back to a community to the community in my own country. and so i apply that general kind of analogy to this situation. i do understand the issue of the mothers and body of these children, my post security bay door,

they issue about having being radicalized. but again, i think burdening, unrecognized administration doesn't itself have a lot of money and resources to deal with these kinds of challenges. i don't see that as bad as my grand you will be helping chris, as we've mentioned in our conversation on the show today, this is all very legally complicated. do you happen to know if there is a timeline that must be adhered to by which countries you know, would have to repatriate their citizens and have them go on trial by a certain amount of time? i mean, is there any kind of statute limitations that's coming up in any of these cases? well, i think because of the nature of the offense, it would be an extended period of time. of course, every country is different. i think the, the realistic view though is that these people won't really be prosecuted if they

return to their country. they do, it will be very well known, a very minor offense, but the lowest nature of the offense, which is membership devices. and there are many people in this country that have been in prison for over the years. so it's, it's, the problem is much greater than that. i think the answer probably is for those countries that are asking the cur than others to, to imprison these people is to make sure that those people are funding. so to give the prison camps themselves the funding needed by the west and all the other companies that this is not just the western problem. this is a worldwide problem in india. pakistan and others have got the same issue with, with, with attempted recreations. i'm and let me ask you this does the fact that more countries least seemingly for now are starting to repatriate more of their citizens

in europe? is that something that you could see is being used as a precedent by people that are currently in those camps who want to return home. i mean, could they potentially use as an example? the cases of these case by case repatriation at the european court of human rights for example, i could see it being i could see them. you could be some of them using that. the issue of precedent as a means to justify being repatriated. but whether that president then given that you can ration to be to a mass wave of re patients, i think is more on that i'd be more i see this more be individual case by case in a protracted process. chris, do you believe there should be more of a coordinated international response when it comes to this? because you have countries like the us that are urging other countries to

repatriate their citizens. and then you have the political reality on the ground in parts of europe and also in the u. k. whereby these political leaders do not want to do so it's a very unpopular choice. do you think there will be more of a coordinated response going forward and should there be more of a coordinated response? loving yes. is the truth of the matter and i, you know, well, so i don't really, i don't really want these people to come back. i think probably it's going to happen and it will happen over a protected period of time. and as has been said, you know, the leaving the kids in there is not a great, great thing. they going to, going to be much more difficult to, to socialize when you do finally return to the countries that they find. they got passports for so. so i think there will be a slow trickle of people returning. i think almost under the radar of the media and the public

a but i think we shouldn't underestimate the difficulties that this will bring when they do return. and when they do have to go live next door to someone or that they have to send their children to the local schools. because, you know, it's the, the communities that have to deal with the problems. and the, you know, the mostly families across the u. k. really don't want these people to be to be living next door to them is quite simple and i think it's, it's a, it's going to be a popular decision. but i think it will be something district that over the next 2 or 3 years, probably at speeding up as, as time goes on. all right, well, we have run out of time, so we're gonna have to leave our conversation there. thanks so much for all of our guest aimen joe added to mimi and chris phillips. and thank you to for watching. you can see this and all of our previous programs. again, anytime by visiting our website, algebra dot com and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. you

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