a game changer for you and us citizens living in england for the time being the other nations of the u. k. will follow suit who folks, since the beginning of the pandemic, really haven't been able to welcome into this country, their friends and family from abroad to reasons for this next stage. in the reopening process bar, as jones in the prime minister desperately worried that the u. k. was losing out to the you in terms of us tourism people heading to cities like paris and rome in europe because they couldn't come here to london. he was worried about squandering the so called vaccine bonus and enormous pressure applied on the government by the travel industry, warning ministers in recent days that they were thousands of jobs on the line with sectors of the industry facing bankruptcy. if they didn't open, it didn't open very quickly. ah, this is algebra and these are the top stories in the last half hour. petrocca theory has been formed in as president of peru is

a former union leader and rural school teacher who was promised to combat poverty and rewrite the peruvian constitution in his in world speech. she emphasized that his immediate priority was to confront the covert 19 pandemic. it's been revealed that to new jersey as judges have begun. the investigating 3 political parties on suspicion of receiving foreign farms among them another the largest party in the coalition government. it's been pushing for elections after president k, a side dismissed the prime minister in for parliament. earlier this week is a 100. she is a spokeswoman for another. she says her party rejects the allegations, is going to do this quite strict inside the funding and, and not always comply with the rule. and has always been the policy to submit all financial records and account within the legal deadline to many pockets, including the puppies,

making these allegations who have failed to do the same and never been any evidence of such for funding. another does not receive any for funding funding from its members and supported wasn't in conflict enough. gone astonished, driving large numbers to attempt perilous journey to europe. turkey has detained a boat carrying more than 230 people in the g and seek officials believe the group of mainly afghans was on it twice. italy, england is to lift restrictions on travelers from the united states and the u. from next monday, they won't have to quarantine if they're fully vaccinated. thailand has again reported a record number of corona virus infections. it registered more than 16000 new cases in 24 hours time restrictions were imposed last week in the capital, bangkok, and other regions. japan's newly reported corona virus infections have risen to another record high of more than 800-3200 of those cases are in the olympics. host

city. tokyo was the headlines and use continues here on out there at rafter inside story. season of i news, news, news, news, news, those rights, the covert 19 vaccine. rich countries again fail to reach an agreement on what's called intellectual property. many say a way you could, who's production, others argue it would hamper innovation. so is that a middle ground? this is inside store. ah,

ah, ah. hello and welcome to the program. i'm bernard smith. inoculations of a number one weapon against the coven, 19 virus. but not everyone has equal access. and for 2nd time, the sheer members of the world trade organization have failed to find a compromise on vaccine. peyton waivers, south africa, india, on the us, backed by dozens of countries, a leading calls of the suspension of intellectual property rights on several jobs. they say it would help increase production worldwide and end the pandemic, much quicker. but drug companies and some european nations are against it, saying the waiver will not help developing nations would lead us. we'll meet again in september and october this year to find a solution. the world trade organization spokesman keith rockwell says it's a very emotional issue. adding that getting production in developing countries to

a higher level so that more shots can go into more arms in africa. latin america and asia is of critical importance to everyone. and some countries standing against the way that we're looking for a pragmatic outcome, whatever that may be. we're going to go to, i guess, in a moment. but 1st, let's look at how many people have been vaccinated so far around the world. both 3900000000 doses in 180 countries have been administered so far. according to data collected by bloomberg, the united arab emirates is vaccinated the most people per capita, followed by malta and bahrain with more than 2 thirds of the population's having received both doses in the u. k. just over half of the population of 66000000 have received a full vaccination and the united states has not yet inoculated half of its population . meanwhile, places like djibouti and zambia remain as some of the least vaccinated countries in

the world with an average of just one vaccine for every 100 people. the let's bring in our guests. joining us on zoom from boston is brook baker, professor of law, the northeast and university. from about as it, he and he, me, that i had of biotechnology lab of the robot medical school. and from what i can france pool torments, professor of intellectual property law at the university of nottingham. a warm welcome to you all 1st brook to you. should there be a waiver on the vaccine peyton's well, absolutely. did it be a waiver? we've waited for voluntary efforts to, to no avail. we have grossly inadequate supply need just the high prices and really what is accurately called vaccine a part time. and in terms of the mail distribution that you described in your

introduction as a waiver will get the intellect, intellectual property, barriers out of the way. so production can be increased. forgive me of in should that be a waiver? talking from africa without any thoughts? i think with one percent of the population vaccinated, we need more vaccine and they do agree we need a waiver. and paul quickly to use it as simple as that wave the peyton's and off we go. i don't think it's a simple as that. i think there's many other factors that play, but on the other hand, i agree with my colleagues that if we have this tool in the trucks agreement, if this is not the occasion which we use it, then we should probably never use the scrap it. so maybe there shouldn't be a waiver, but there should be much more than a way there should be other metrics as well. otherwise we can make a waiver is not the medical solution. brooke, speed is clearly of the essence and getting the vaccine administered is taking the w a w 9 months. so far to not get very far is not a quick away sharing technology. perhaps the system has gone up in south africa

recently, something quicker than waiting for the waivers. well, i think what we've seen is delay on all fronts. the w h o set up are covered 1900 technology access pool last june, and not one by pharmaceutical company has put one i order intellectual property into that tool tool box for the last 13 months. now we have 9 months waiting on the waiver, and you know, we could actually look at what the world is doing and, and wonder why the world is, keeps kicking, the intellectual property bogged down the field. and maybe it's actually taking it off the field. we needed solutions last year. we didn't get them then we need solutions now. and instead of addressing the issue now the w t o and, and the rich countries are basically going on vacation. tens of thousands of people die before the next formal meeting of the trips council up. and it's simply

outrageous that the european union lead by germany is continuing to oppose the waiver. and it's frankly also re just the president by sitting on the fence and watching the fight go on without constructively engaging with a very sensible, pragmatic proposal that south africa in india have put for that said, i certainly agree that voluntary efforts should also be taken. but they have to go beyond the contract manufacturing agreements and, and fill and finish agreements that we've seen from industry thus far. they're really trying to work mainly within the cartel and what they're favored, larger scale, contract manufacturers. and that's helped to produce the insufficient supply that we're currently experiencing as a being you've got to sign a form, going to start production in morocco, but a much quick away, isn't it than relying on waiting for waivers on the patients. why exactly?

i think him the role core and other countries, egypt for example. so okay, i think the looking at doing the film and finish because the easy way and the quickest way to get to produce a vaccine. but i think you then stand that will be lots of communication with that because there is companies and profits behind this. but i agree with broke. what you said. and the more analogy it's great happening to, to, to say that i think we have to be realistic, these countries, and on top of them, germany, they are just by in time that the reality of things, i think the only thing and they have to go to say it's bluntly, they are just letting people buying africa novel places, hoping that they will get enough machination. and there are countries, and after that they would ship them to the poor countries. but i think, and i think i don't have to be really, frankly to said this kind of attitude, then this kind of approaches from the richest country that might be,

may be you will be bitten by about by your approach. because if you live africa 1300000000 of the population wise and live them without, the vaccination may be a super wanting to become in. and if it is cape in any immunity, it will come back home to and bite you. and maybe we'll be playing, catch 22 and think why i think it in a reasonable person for more issue we'll say let's with evan if and just this time . second, think every a reasonable person will think that we can manage the funding locally. but i think to come out of it, we have to think globally, poll, just help us understand when we're talking about waving payton's, what is it that the companies are expected to give up and he's not just the ingredients of the, of the vaccine we're talking about is it why they so nervous about giving up what they've learned? well, i think what they are nervous about giving up is that lifeline. the green one

should not forget about the time domain for the time being, but one should not underestimate the investment that is made in the developing menaces in general and patterns all there to provide a return on investment. there's very little locally cobra 19 was an exception. there's very little investment by government and in terms of subsidies and doing the resource. so the normal expectation of these companies is that true the patterns? i'm not saying there are no abuse this far from it, but they do get the return on their investment. so if they are not all to waive that happened right. and i did were to give away their return on investment. that is a big step for them. it's also important to note these companies. it's not just happens if i give you the way you can make the vaccine. i mean, you need to know how you need also things in the path. so there's also a need to get like mentions, all these things need to be provided. and the last thing these companies want in

the fall, how this will be waived, things will go horribly wrong, there will be contaminated back. you know, there was this incident in a plant in the united states already that was on the license, but i mean, then they are name and their patient will go down the line. so i think they are very weary, but they come train. they don't have the spot train skill technician, they don't have the staff to send it around to shed know how and facilitate things, and therefore their preferred option is to keep control. and i think i can, i can understand that the patent lawyer. i mean, i think they should do something here, but i can understand that they want to keep control a new licensing to license. they are reasonable conditions. won't be a way out, but i understand that we're moving us mail space and that's not a good idea. or our book value, it is an argument we often hear you force these companies to, to give up by payton's,

the waiver peyton's and you store problems for the long term that you put people off invested in future cures and, and remedies. well, i don't think we should forget that governments and charities invested billions and did tens of billions of dollars in the development and clinical approval of the vaccines are currently seen on the market governance invested significantly. and also had done so significantly before the pandemic. because industry was under investing and vaccine technology platforms and government really took up the slack in that regard. but we also have to look at what the money that's coming in of in the coffers. there are estimates the industry standards to make between 98000000000 and 190000000000 dollars this year from vaccine sales. so the idea that they have not already earning return on investment is natalie weak. it's per postures for minimal investments on their own. instead, which we're largest investment for larger subsidized by governments, they are,

and they are earning or miss, or any incredible returns. and then, you know, keeping this recipe secret. now i do agree and loop in the proponents of the waiver have agreed. patents alone are not enough. we need the confidential information to trade secrets, manufacturing know how in some, in some cases the cell lines. we need the underlying technology as well. and so the proponents have very clearly stated why the other intellectual property bears need also to be overcome. what my theory of, of the importance of the waiver is that if need be, it could be apply, it could be implemented at the national level and then applied by countries. but i think the stronger possibility is with the threat of the waiver. it even stronger if the waiver exactly passed and adopted by the w g o. the drug companies in vaccine manufacturers will come to the table in a different way. instead of backing off from sharing technology, they will realize it's in their interest to share voluntarily. because now there's

a credible threat of involuntary action. thus far with no threat dawn cherry action, we see a tight control within the existing cartel, inadequate supplies. there are many other barriers that need to be overcome, including the staffing and the somewhat sent investments and improving facilities and so forth. but the idea that we should just continue to wait and africa and the rest of the global south will be no waiting with a beggar bowl. while the us in europe continue to stockpile to buy additional doses 422220222023. to begin to prepare to distribute doses for new variance and booster shots. well, health workers in africa still are doing without. it's just outrageous. but other than even if there is a waiver of the peyton's is the developing world in a position to deliver, to administer the vaccine quickly. the u. s. was very quick at investing and

developing a vaccine. it locked behind when it came to putting jobs in arms. why thinking, ne, not think we don't have this kind of problem actually, just so you said that we enroll gradually. we have a half a 1000000 of the population was vaccinated in one day. i think when i used to vaccination, the culture of us to vaccination is, is here in africa and africans. i really know the importance of vaccination. the problem, i think probably countries it down to boxes because when they will get to 30 to 6067 percent, that the other 33 percent will not be vaccinated. and we'd come back to the same point. they will have more vaccine on their hands. and do, would we be waiting for other people for other hesitant to to come vaccinate the other thing? i think it's a little more when you start talking about walk to nathan children and we have entries and people are asking africa. no max. nathan,

i do understand that when you have investment, you have a huge investment in time and money when you are a company. but they think that what they are afraid goal is to set a precedent. that's what they are afraid though. they think that by sitting this precedent, they will open up the door and maybe more cases like that will become in the 2nd thing. they don't want to share that technology for one reason because they are afraid this may be, competitors will be they will be creating competitors actually if they think that we don't have a know. so what is the problem? i don't see any problem. we could just had left left the way wave, the, the protection and let this country try to do it. but i think the out know doing it's because they want to keep the rest of the be afraid. all that there will be creating more competitors in the future. i'm not sitting up a precedent for this kind of approach. it's paul isn't the argument that the bio biotech companies make the best, could set up a precedence, a bit of

a red herring. this is a unique global event, a pandemic. this is, this is a one off surely. well, i mean, if you look at, if you care to look at the trips agreement, this is the exceptional scenario for the one off case. you know, this is not rewriting the trips agreement. i mean major, including myself would like to rewrite strips agreement, but this is not happening. this is using the emergency exit for an emergency situation. so i really don't think this is about them being afraid of losing it. all some people in the, in the state, no doubt are afraid of that, but i don't think that's the general feeling. i should also point out that, you know, in reality, i mean, do you carry united states under recently, they know like for over themselves in defense of the european union, it should be said that they have all most next for as many vaccine. so i think

there is a genuine is proficient for going all to share. and i think in these i would agree with my colleague in morocco developing countries. i mean my family in law comes from asia. i mean, they are very well equipped and very well able to vaccinate and they are rolling out as quickly as they can. so i think we really should find the way voluntary with the backup are indeed over, attract the pressure, so there should be more licensing that they should be more productive if we can find all material. if we can distribute the thing that a lot of logistics in that we should roll it out more quickly, beatrice waiver be through hollow risky. i think of all risky by the, by a friend is probably the more realistic one. and i hope that we get there in september of my colleagues of that talk to late the better late than never broke. what role is geo politics playing in all of this? russia and china stole

a limelight where they were the 1st to start giving out to start distributing vaccines outside their own countries wouldn't help the european union if they were, if they were to encourage a waiver and see that the vaccines distributed more widely. well, i think, you know, the perspective as i understand from my, my car colleagues in the global cell is that the specter of rich countries race to the front of the line and stockpile doses. in some instances, a 10 doses for, you know, each person and their country for them to now be standing in the way of additional supplies coming to, to countries that haven't even been able to vaccinate one percent of their population. i mean, it's truly outrageous and it's already has been said, the variance create a risk. it's a stupid policy from the perspective of europe as well. you should just simply admit that it's made a mistake. that, that at this point in time, preserving the profits of the industry is no match to the viral firestorm which is

approaching from all sides. the longer people remain on vaccinated, not only will they die, their family suffer, their economy suffer, but variance will grow and they threaten whatever vaccine progress has been accomplished in the global morse. so it's a stupid policy and up for geo political reasons and more recent and public health reasons jerk should change of position in the us should help europe change his position by acting hand in hand with india and south africa to actually produce a text. and to do so over this vacation period. so they come back in september and say we have a draft text. but see if germany wants to stand alone in opposing a text that now has the u. s. and premature on it. i don't think that's going to happen. so yeah, you know, europe in particular needs to stop its opposition and be seen as actually contributing to a more robust global response in the u. s. s. to get off the fence and actually

make the waiver happen. other than this deal at pfizer and beyond tech have signed to fill and finish in south africa. send the product us out africa to be filled up . they're not going to start doing producing until the end of next year with distribution. early in 2023 seems a very long way off considering as we know how quickly variance seem to appear, how do we get things moving more quickly? why agree with you about it? because i think when you look at it from a scientific point of view, from just common sense, actually because you will not want to take this risk actually leaving huge numbers of population without the vaccine because it's could, it's a really terrible thing, a terrible decision. it says it might have and you are in some buster, you will be coming back and start another pandemic. and i think i have to say the word actually i could, i resisted but i have to say it's stupid,

it's really stupid to do that. i think the other thing just coming back to the position between the europeans and the americans. i think they just play in good cop bad cop. i mean that's the real bank. i think they are on the same page and they are just trying to buy time because the position for a company is it's a really strong one. but my question will be based on what, what you asked me, what are the alternatives, what we should do, we should just let this country by time and, and then they would from october and go to december of go to the next year and leave not just this countries because when i talk about buying in africa, in globalized word, i'm talking to her work because you're going to be going everywhere. should we just leave this country decide for that? i think it's really the concerns to stop portion of the w t o. it's a really good questions in this matter. while that was a very quick question on the w t o for you paul, how much is its credibility at stake with this is already had trouble from donald

trump when he was president. what was that was on state care for the w. c. o. very quick counsellor, please. i think there's, oh, i think united states hon from. and it's not really changing a little a significantly undermine the power of w. t. o. to reach agreement to do anything without significant backing from the u. s. this is not going to happen as a w to you will eventually perish. but i think what we need, 1st of all, is the us to start pulling the european example and supplying all these piles of vaccines to developing countries that is not happening. that would put us in a much stronger position. so. so leadership in the w t o later on say, well, we're doing this and now all of our joining the line and we're going to agree in a waiver. i think that will be the way forward, otherwise w 0 will parish and will be farther away from any solution that we ever were and broke. how long do we agree this way before 3 years seems to be

a number of those bounded about? is that sufficient, or is this a permanent thing? you want to say? well, i pick a decent, frank last as long as the demick last. i think 3 years was a minimum proposed by the proponents. i think there's going to be negotiation on that. if there's a set time, i actually think it should be longer than 3 years, 5 or 6 years, even because we just don't know how long the variance are going to continue to circle the world. but you know that that's really a minor issue in the real sense. if we get some expanded production, if we get control this pandemic, collectively the world is gonna be so happy, it's going to be able to move forward. socially families are going to be able to do things that they haven't, haven't been doing businesses and economic activities to rebound. the longer we procrastinate, the longer we protect the interests of one industry, only big pharma, the longer this pandemic last. so the waiver the, the duration of the waiver would actually need to be much shorter if it were passed

. that's, that's the irony of the situation. or are gentlemen, we are unfortunately out of time, but thank you to you all to brook baker to as it never he, me, and to poll torments, and thank you to for watching, you can see the program at any time by visiting our website, al jazeera dot com for more debate, go to our facebook page, facebook dot com forward slash ha, inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter. we are a j inside store for me, bernard smith, and the whole team here by the news news, news,

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