stadium or any other sporting venue here in japan, in the end that a limping bubble as it is cold, that a group of athletes, coaches, officials, and journalists who are not supposed to have any contact really with the local population, that the limpid bubble appears to have remained intact, there was no major outbreak. new outbreak, i should say, of positive cove in 1900 cases though they have been going up steadily here in tokyo with that very much the backdrop. if not the centerpiece of these olympic games here in tokyo. ah, this is al jazeera, these are the top stories. the afghan taliban has claim control of 3 provincial capitals as of sunday. they say they've not taken telecom study, poll and condos. charlotte bellis has more for us from cobble. earlier today. sarah poll and condos fell to the taliban, they put out a statement. we got hold of residence, the phone lines were down for a while,

but eventually when we got through, they confirm to us that yes, they were on the streets during control of all the government, buildings and condos. they had raised the flag laying claim to the city of condos. condos, of all of the cities is the most significant. it is a large city, is the gateway to the north. the taliban have wanted the city for a very long time. they briefly held it in 20152016 until they were kicked out by us . special forces to don is re calling its ambassador to neighboring ethiopia in frustration over at stones on the conflict and try the sapa, rejected cartoons offer to mediate in the crisis. thousands of refugees from to cry continue to arrive in sudan for massive fires are out of control in greece. the worst at the moment is on the 2nd largest island, the heavier elsewhere. thousands of people have been evacuated from villages. north of athens. heavy rain has brought with it some relief for the emergency crews battling wildfires and neighboring turkey fires have been burning through vast

areas of forest across southern regions. for 12 days, tens of thousands of people have now fled their homes. iran has reported its highest number of corona virus deaths since the pandemic began. 542 people, cases have been driven by the more contagious delta variance. the governments imposed more restrictions in response football, superstar lee and l messy has confirmed, he's in talks with paris sanction man. he broke down in tears as he said, good bye to barcelona, a club he's been with throughout his 20 year career. he said he did everything possible to stay at the club. the tokyo olympic games have wrapped up with a short fireworks display over the main stadium, the u. s. top the metal table followed by china and japan. the next games will be held in paris in 3 years time. those are your headlines up next on al jazeera inside story. i'll have another news for you in about 30 minutes. we'll see you then me.

the protest gather in france and italy again. so cold help passes, keeping population safe or violating civil liberties. this is inside story. ah hello and welcome to the show. i'm sammy's a, than governments around the world stepping off efforts to combat the pandemic. but the spread of new variances posing a new challenge. some countries are turning to technology for

a possible solution. france and italy are introducing so called health passes. this is difficult shows who's received at least one job tested negative all recently recovered from cobit 19. although a majority say they support the system, thousands have rejected it saying it infringes basic rights. governments hope it will encourage vaccinations, reduce infections, and help track clusters much faster group over totally the room where you freedom worth. if you say to me, i don't want to be vaccinated, but if to morrow you in fact your father, your mother or my self, i'm a victim of your freedom. when you've had the possibility to have had something to protect yourself and managing the vesa, it's not pulling on, i don't see psychical the vaccine is in our hands, and that's what counts. after that, everyone is free to express themselves in a calm and respectful manner. as i understood it from the beginning, i don't think there's much point in demonstrating against those who are against the

health path insist they should have the right to refuse the vaccine without consequences. the best a walk is i will be deprived of freedom because i have chosen not to get vaccinated and not to take the p c r test. soon, i can no longer go anywhere. i can only stay at home, can you imagine? and i'll continue to pay my taxes that's not normal. i can keep up with this creates a division between the population of people who are vaccinated and those who are not, there will be checks everywhere. there will be a real tracking of the population soon. people won't be able to even go to the hospital if they're not vaccinated. it's absolutely unacceptable. that's what it's been nearly a year and a half. and i can see that public and mental health is degrading. and i can notice that nothing is being done to address that. instead, they're taking away resources and hospital beds from us. we're being forced to have a health pass and i realized that from september 15,

i may have to stop working and leave my colleagues on their own to handle patients and people who are not mentally, well, i'm a psychiatrist and that's i'm bearable. we'll bring in our guests surely, but 1st let's take a closer look at the issue. the european union is introducing a vaccine passport across all its 27 member states. pass holders will be exempt from testing or quarantine in one crossing and you border the u. s. rolled out mandatory vaccination possible saying citizens privacy and rights should be protected. but 4 states use vaccination tracking apps. china introduced a q r code system last year to trace infections. it also launched the digital health certificate that shows the hold is vaccine status and test results. and israel is bringing back a vaccine path. it with true cases of rising that because of the delta variant, the had to bring in our gas now into the shower. we have joining us from

paris, brandon gotten fargo and independent reporter covering health path protests across europe in london, oksana p. shake lead at the global citizenship program on outbreaks of infectious diseases at the university college of london. and in bristol, in the u. k. gabriel scally visiting professor of public health at the university of bristol and a member of the scientific advisory group for emergencies. a warm welcome to all if i could start with brendan, what exactly are protest is upset about? is it more about privacy being violated? brendan, all freedom of movement being restricted it's been a combination of both. i've heard from protesters here that there's concerns over the intrusion into their privacy, particularly from the array of different places that will now be checking this help pass. so in france, in particular, destiny include bars, restaurants,

phase interesting trans hospitals, nursing homes. and so people have concerns over just the scope of where this is going to be rolled out. and the degree to which is going to be implemented. as you mentioned earlier, it's got a few options with it in terms of pullback, summation, or proven test that there was negative within 48 hours or a positive test. it's recovered within 6 months, but it still concerns over the past itself and how that's going to be implemented throughout society. let's ask once on the plus side, gabriel, do health passes help to contain covered? is it proven? does it have a track record, or is this just an experiment? well, almost everything we're doing with regard to cobra 19 is in a sense and experiment. it's all new territory, though, we'll have to say to you that the idea of a vaccine passport is

a very old one. they've been in place internationally for decades and they still considered continue to be in place internationally for things like yellow fever or polio meningitis in some cases. so there's nothing new in it. i think there are 2 things about it. first of all, there is an assumption almost that once someone has been vaccinated and can prove that they're kind of safe and, and won't transmit the disease. but that's not true. we know that people who are double vaccinate it can get cold 19 that they can be ill with it and they can trans met the infection to others. so it's not a silver bullet. it's not a cure all. i think the 2nd thing about it is that it is a temporary measure because we have to get this dreadful virus under control. and we need a mixture of measures, some of them about the infrastructure of life ventilation, some about personal behavior where you must some, some good about making sure the backs in the nation is really taken up as fast as

possible because we're not safe until we're all set, and therefore i think it is legitimate to times to consider vaccination as of something that we should be a requirement particularly to protect the vulnerable people. all right, you've, you've opened up a whole bunch of issues which actually i want to pick up on. let me start with one of them with santa gabriel mentioned there. that you know, this doesn't protect you having a vaccine and having, i guess, having a vaccine pass for a health path doesn't mean you're safe and up to use gabriel's words. why a government's came to adopt this then while the vaccines are still extremely effective against severe disease and severe symptoms. so we still have a very high low protection in that regard. despite the fact that delta has really changed the equation around transmit stability. this is twice as infectious as the

wild strain or the original 3rd of t could be 2. so from that perspective, let me verify. i wasn't questioning the, the wisdom of getting vaccinated. and of course we, we encourage people to go out and do that. but particularly the vaccine path system or the health path system, if it doesn't make a huge difference. well, why are we arguing about it then? well, i think that was my point. it does make a big difference, but there is still some risk involved. so breakthrough infections which occur when you have already had 2 doses of vaccine are very rare, but still occur. and that means that people who are vulnerable and the elderly are particularly at risk and we even see some variability depending on the type of vaccine the person has received. so i think we need to definitely portrayed that having both do this does make a significant difference, but it doesn't make the risk be row. and other precautions may still be needed a long time that i think that would be real main point. so i think that the

governments are encouraging that because it will keep people out of hospital. and when we see that they become overwhelmed when walked down to kick in and no one walked to see that to occur again. this winter. ok, let me take upon which gabriel mentioned to brandon. there have been vaccine passports of some sort around for a long time for other diseases. why the concern now? is it more about the age that we live in the digital age and the, the technology to record a vaccine passport now is a little different from, you know, some of the diseases of 201500 years ago. i think there's a combination of a couple of things here. so there's the technology aspect of it and the risks that are associated with that. in older times it was simply documentation, paper and the records weren't easily hackable or easily shareable amongst devices

and things like that. compared to the way that they are today. so there's concerns over that, especially in the wake of, in the last few months in the last few years, various different cyber security issues companies in the app. and so there are concerns that this type of data and information in the hands of some of these even ones within the government that that would be of significant risks. there's also the issue of something, or course. so wow, here is people that are not necessarily questioning the effectiveness of that scenes themselves. it's more of the process of how this rolled out and be coerced and aspect of the house in that is that intrudes into so many different aspects of lives. at the mentioned earlier, all the different spaces where this check people have concerns over that from here to the previous. they actually passports for things like yellow paper that was

mentioned earlier that were more specifically for international travel, not necessarily for movement from business to business within your own community. so the issue of how deep this will ride in society is something that has really drawn a lot of your from people and caused a lot to come out into the streets across you're doing a fanta. do we actually know what sort of data these health policies will generate? i mean, are we just talking about what the state of health is of an individual at any given time? or we talk about that and locations who they meet with, how long they spend in a location or close to someone. i'm through the latter half of what you described is more similar to the avalon tree. any check up that people in the u. k. used in order to be alerted, if they did were at risk of contract, it could be 19 based on

a location of the 19 vaccination path. on the other hand, would be more the marquee existing medical records. again, we see that to this has been in use of for some time. and the problem now is that internationally, there isn't that much agreement on the extent of data that should be included in some of it. but if we go with the plans going forward for international travel, we know that the u. k. app which also holds your explanation. status is accepted in other countries. i think it could be improved. however, if there was a universal platform for that to be for all countries degree upon with that vital information about vaccination data, really the alert model could be separate from gabriel. i wonder since a lot of countries are using some kind of coven tracking app, is this such a big deal to ask people to also now carry a vaccine path?

were already many of us being tracked anyway. i mean, by the cobra. of course, i don't think it's a big deal of it. i live in a society where young people have to prove their age by showing id when they go into a license, premise nightclub or above that sells out. gold is perfectly normal. i think there are 2 things, but firstly, it don't seem to be working in france because the vaccination rates, which have faltered, i've been shooting up not so it don't seem to work. and secondly, there as all the things, any time vaccination has become a big issue because of my panoramic disease or epidemic disease there of always being people who oppose vaccination for centuries. and it's often linked into a lot of very strange theories about the course of control about strange changes to

your body of people taking external control of you. and i think the use of social media in particular as a lot of lot of these interest and protests to grow. and i think this will bit away and we will get to a situation where many, many countries actually have covert 19 under control. and there will be no need for this, provided we do all the measures and take all the measures to get society living safely. ok, let me off that point then to brandon, why a protest is, is it a little bit too late for us to be worried about a health path? if many of us since last year had to carry and still have to carry some kind of cobra tracking app that records. all the information that we're worried about well was though, is the apps, there were different options available. some people were able to opt out of them.

and so i think that there is some difference there in between what was presented last year just to try to trace and see if you were exposed to go versus having this record, you know, in terms of how this would actually be applied. it's still a little bit unknown about where the data would be going and where that would be held. and so that's something that would have to be really explored more and kind of need more generally available to the public. i think a lot of the mystery around this sensor has in the system implemented in the modern age with modern technology, smartphones, etc. people have a lot of questions and that's allowed for as, as mentioned earlier, the social media discussions are the just run rampant. and you know, some people have different concerns. oh, great. some maybe even they had incorrect information regarding how this would actually use, but it hasn't been clearly outlined with all of that. and you know,

there's always the concerns over whether that could be using a furiously against somebody. i mean, one would hope that something like just vaccination status or, you know, simple information related to that wouldn't be an issue. but there's also no one's associated with that data. we're to be associate with the cation with who you associate with, but you know, meeting in person. and so those concerned, especially given that this would be implemented in different countries that have different governments, different systems, it would, it would be very uncertain at this time, but i think the governments are going to have you try to better about explaining them. ok, i can see gabriel wants to get in on this. go ahead. gabriel. i think there is one point where we might been into a vaccination and proof of vaccination for a long haul and i think that isn't in the health care realm. i'm one of the interviewees at the beginning,

talked about going into hospital working and so on. and they're being very disturbing. number of breaks during the covert, pandemic in the hospitals were really vulnerable. patients having treatment for cancer, being in immune suppressed being i've died in substantial numbers on wards where cold got onto the board and we do protect patients from for example, hepatitis b and in the u. k. at least there is a requirement for people doing procedures with patients that are potentially transmissible. appetite as be transmissible opportunities. they have to be vaccinated to do their job. and i personally feel that whole area of health and social care where people are born ruble. i think that is one area where we will have to have a continuing requirement for cobra. 19 vaccination oksana. it's clearly one of the big concerns is about who holds the information and what they can do with it. but

isn't it true or santa that once you agree to upload your information to an app or that's a digital system, gather your information, there are really few laws to say what can or cannot be done in terms of who gets access to it. and it can be shared with right, one thing in this case, everything will be discussed in terms of ensuring that data protection is in place for something as important as international vaccinations data. gabriel had mentioned these types of record have existed previously. it's just going to be putting it into a new form. and we also know that other electronic summary care records have been used in different settings as well. so i think perhaps this is being a distraction from what the overall goal is and the fact that to some degree

medical records are used in different ways. anyhow, i think again, there may be specific legislation that needs to be introduced to and just to reassure the population. and i also agree with our guest journalists who, who says that, that communication to the public needs to be clear. i think in order to gain that trust, but absolutely as this should be a fundamental requirement for any person working in a care home setting. in the u. k, we had one of the most high rates of mortality in a care home. specifically, when there were no vaccines available, that just goes to show that shielding is not an effective strategy for the vulnerable, based on our, our history, the pandemic so far. so we're going to need to continue to ensure that all staff whose job it is to protect their patients are going to have to take this up. and, and i think that there is going to be

a mandate of this for use in many different countries, at least do not. and we know that also the virus moves where people move. so an international travel level, we're also going to have to consider ensuring what the border policies are going to be. as we know many countries in the world currently have a low income, recently have 1 point one percent of their population vaccinated. that is pro high levels of transmission, high level within the community really do help variance g emerge. so either we have an aggressive vaccination policy that is locally coordinated right against it, as well as a conservative approach towards reopening. but many countries are not conservative about the re opening it full steam ahead. so therefore we need to push harder on vaccination. nothing. all right, let me focus on a couple of points which i think that we're heading towards. the idea of this is an exceptional situation. brendan,

how convincing. do you find that argument that this is exceptional, either that for most people are not going to have to carry a vaccine pass or a health path for most of the time. this is something which is either temporary or exceptional if you work in a care home or for some exceptional category of people. they're the only ones who might have to deal with long term. well in terms of compulsory vaccination that would be more specific to these other settings like health care workers and people that have been tasked with caring for others. the damage has obviously been extremely significant and affected all levels of society. so is definitely an extraordinary situation. and so it's not shocked that is something new would be tried to be implemented, but this is, like i said earlier, something governments are going to have to be clear about what are the intentions

with this is this intended to be a full, you know, new policy that's going to just become part of everyday life. or is it something that's going to be limited, or they're going to be specific metrics where rates fall to a certain level or global lead. the pen is brought under control to a certain extent when they relapse restrictions. on that, how would that be coordinated amongst other governments? i think the test is you've spoken to would would be comforted by that if government did say that sort of thing. a lot of them probably would not be. a lot of them would be skeptical and bigger issue of probably or isn't the yes, the issue of trust is huge in all this, and there's many and that's why if the parents protest specifically over the last few weeks here, they've been targeting various different government buildings to protest outside of going outside of the constitutional counsel. it's definitely been something we're taking it directly to different offices calling for more transparency,

but there definitely are questions over whether those statements, if they were to be issue would be here to when people stop to all that, i mean, i think what we've got about a minute left, let me quickly off. gabriel. what's the bottom line of these pos is going to get us back to some kind of normal life we, people can go out and resume activities will take us some kind of science fiction world where you know, maybe you will be prevented because you're so monitored, you can be told, sorry you can't come here because you met or you were close to x y z eb yesterday. well, i don't think we've got the sophistication judging by the way in which many of the things to the pan danica being handled. i really don't. the sophistication of a lot of the, the data systems and all of the systems we put in place. and i don't think this is going to last long. i think we are going to have to adopt a much broader perspective in terms of what we need to do as

a society to try and get the to get this pandemic and get this virus controlled. weeping very narrowly focused, often one thing at a time. rather than thinking more broadly, and we also need to understand that there are haven't big commercial interests in play here. the e u and the urban commission in particular has taken a very strong line on freedom of move. and even when countries wanted to restrict that in the interest of public health, so and passports are clearly a part of that as well. but what we need are a good strategic plans to get the virus under control. i think that's one thing we can all agree on. good strategic plans to get the virus on the control. good to end on a on the point of consensus. let's thank i guess so much because we are out of time brendan goods in chicago, oksana pic and gabriel scally. and thank you to for watching,

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