in bay roots for testers, carried faint coffins and pictures of their loved ones to show their anger at the government and demand accountability. more than 200 people were killed and thousands injured when ammonium nitrate stored at the ports exploded. ah, hello again. the headlines on al jazeera, a major un climate change report is due to be released in the next hour. it's expected to paint a picture of a world already living with the consequences of climate change. it will help set the tone for the u. n's international climate conference in glasgow later this year or environment editor clark has more from an august in southern church. and this will be the most comprehensive report we've ever had on the state of the planet's climate. it will be drawing in dates or, and projections and all the key issues like rainfall patterns, temperature rises,

sea level rise and glacial loss, and so forth. and thousands of scientists have being pouring over the data over a month and years, in fact, to try and come up with this synthesis report that we now have going forward. they use data from land, from c, from and from out in space, from satellite data to and even going back into the historical record 450000000 years back of climate records they've, they've looked at to try and come up with the information that we can hear you say around about an hour's time, like stream heat. andre winds or fueling several wildfires around the world over in california, the so called dixie fire is now the 2nd largest in the states history. at least 8 people are now missing as firefighters struggle to contain the widespread flane's authorities estimate, they'll not be fully extinguished. for 2 more weeks, thousands of people have been forced to abandon their homes, and at least for huge fires are burning out of controlling grease flames. on the island of having gulf 5 more villages,

more than 2000 people have been rescued since last week, ferries are standing by to take more people to safety. in other news, a rapid offensive by the taliban is overwhelming afghan forces. the arm group says it's taking control of a 5th provincial capital in just 3 days. the most significant gain is in the northern city of condos. it says it's all taken. the nearby city of telecom and sorry, pole injury. farmers are back on the streets of new delhi. they are protesting against 3 laws, they say will harm their livelihood by favoring large private retailers. but only $200.00 are being allowed to gather outside parliament. you have to day to the headlines on al jazeera, more news coming up right after inside story. from talk to al jazeera, we roam, did you want the un to take and who stopped you? we listen. you see the whole infrastructure and being totally destroyed. we meet

with global news makers and talk about the stories that matter on out sierra protest gather in france and italy again. so cold help passes, keeping population safe or violating civil liberties. this is inside story. ah, ah, hello and welcome to the show. i'm sammy's a than governments around the world stepping off efforts to combat the pandemic, but the spread of new variances posing a new challenge. some countries are turning to technology for a possible solution. france and italy are introducing so called health passes. this is difficult shows who's received at least one jap, tested negative,

or recently recovered from covey. 19, although a majority say they support the system. thousands have rejected it, saying it infringes basic right. and governments hope it will encourage vaccinations, reduce infections, and help track clusters much faster. give over totally the room where you feed and worth if you say to me, i don't want to be vaccinated, but if tomorrow you in fact, your father, your mother or myself, i'm a victim of your freedom. when you've had the possibility to have had something to protect herself, and maisie de vesa it's on, i don't see sucking the vaccine is in our hands. and that's what counts. after that, everyone is free to express themselves in a calm and respectful manner. as i understood it from the beginning, i don't think there's much point in demonstrating against itself as you call those who are against the health path, insist they should have the right to refuse the vaccine without consequences. the best day was i will be deprived of freedom because i have chosen not to get

vaccinated and not to take the p c r test. soon, i can no longer go anywhere. i can only stay at home, can you imagine? and i'll continue to pay my taxes that's not normal. so that i can keep up with this creates a division between the population of people who are vaccinated and those who are not, there will be checks everywhere. there will be a real tracking of the population soon. people won't be able to even go to the hospital if they're not vaccinated. it's absolutely unacceptable. that's what it's been nearly a year and a half. and i can see that public and mental health is degrading. and i can notice that nothing is being done to address that. instead they're taking away resources and hospital beds from us. we're being forced to have a health pass and i realized that from september 15, i may have to stop working and leave my colleagues on their own to handle patients and people who are not mentally, well, i'm a psychiatrist and that's i'm bearable. we'll bring in our guests shortly,

but 1st let's take a closer look at the issue. the european union is introducing a vaccine passport across all its 27 member states. pass holders will be exempt from testing or quarantine in one crossing and you border. the us ruled out mandatory vaccination possible saying citizens privacy and rights should be protected. but 4 states use vaccination tracking apps. china introduced a q r code system last year to trace infections. it also launched the digital health certificate that shows the hold is vaccine status and test results. and israel is bringing back a vaccine path. it withdrew cases of rising that because of the delta variant, the that's bring in our gas now into the show. we have joining us from paris. brandon goods in florida and independent reporter covering health pass protests across europe in london,

oksana p chic lead at the global citizenship program on outbreaks of infectious diseases at the university college of london. and in bristol, in the u. k. gabriel scally visiting professor of public health at the university of bristol and a member of the scientific advisory group for emergencies. a warm welcome to all if i could start with brendan, what exactly are protest is upset about? is it more about privacy being violated brendan, or freedom of movement being restricted? it's been a combination of both. i've heard from protesters here that there's concerns over the intrusion into their privacy, particularly from the array of different places that will now be checking this help pass. so in france, in particular, destiny include bars, restaurants can phase interesting trans hospitals, nursing homes. and so people have concerns over just the scope of where this is

going to be rolled out and degrees. we're just going to implement it. as you mentioned earlier, it's got a few options with it in terms of pullback, summation, or prove a test that there was negative within 48 hours or a positive test. it's recovered within 6 months, but it still concerns over the past itself and how that's going to be implemented throughout society. let's ask once on the plus side, gabriel, do health passes help to contain cove? it? is it proven? doesn't have a track record or is this just an experiment? well, almost everything we're doing with regard to cooper 19 is in a sense and experiment. it's all new territory, though, we'll have to say to you that the idea of a boxing passport is a very old one. they've been in place internationally for decades and they still consider to continue to be in place internationally for things like yellow fever for polio, for meningitis in some cases. so there's nothing new in it. i think there are 2

things about it. first of all, there is an assumption almost that once someone has been vaccinated and can prove that they're kind of safe and, and won't transmit the disease. but that's not true. we know that people who are double vaccinate it can get cold 19, but they can be ill with it and they can trans met the infection to others. so it's not a silver bullet. it's not a cure all. i think the 2nd thing about it is that it is a temporary measure because we have to get this dreadful virus under control. and we need a mixture of measures, some of them about the infrastructure of ventilation, some that about personal behavior. where ma, some, some good about making sure the backs in the nation is really taken up as fast as possible because we're not safe until we're all set. and therefore, i think it is legitimate to times to consider vaccination as of something

that we should be a requirement particularly to protect the vulnerable people. all right, you've, you've opened up a whole bunch of issues which actually i want to pick up on. let me start with one of them with zach santa gabriel mentioned there. that, you know, this doesn't protect you having a vaccine and having, i've, i guess, having a vaccine pass for a health path doesn't mean you're safe and up to use gabriel's words. why a government's came to adopt this then while the vaccines are still extremely effective against severe disease and severe symptoms. so we still have a very high low protection in that regard. despite the fact that delta has really changed the equation around transmit ability. this is twice as infectious as the wild strain or the original 3rd of t could be 2. so from that perspective, let me verify. i wasn't questioning the wisdom of getting vaccinated and of course

we, we encourage people to go out and do that. but particularly the vaccine path system or the health path system, if it doesn't make a huge difference. well, why are we arguing about it then? well, i think that was my point. it does make a big difference, but there is still some risk involved. so breakthrough infections which occur when you have already had 2 doses of vaccine are very rare, but still occur. and that means that people who are vulnerable and the elderly are particularly at risk and we even see some variability depending on the type of vaccine the person has received. so i think we need to definitely portrayed that having both this does make a significant difference, but it doesn't make the risk be row. and other precautions may still be needed along side that i think that would be real main point. so i think that the governments are encouraging that because it will keep people out of hospital. and when we see that they become overwhelmed when walked down to kick in and no one

walked to see that to occur again. this winter. ok, let me take upon which gabriel mentioned to brandon. there have been vaccine passports of some sort around for a long time for other diseases. why the concern now? is it more about the age that we live in the digital age and the, the technology to record a vaccine passport now is a little different from, you know, some of the diseases of 201500 years ago. i think there's a combination of a couple of things here. so there's the technology aspect of it and the risks that are associated with that. in older times it was simply documentation, paper and the records weren't easily hackable or easily shareable amongst devices and things like that. compared to the way that they are today. so there's concerns over that, especially in the wake of, in the last few months in the last few years,

various different cybersecurity issues companies. and so there are concerns that this type of data and information is hands with some of the even ones within the government that that would be of significant. there's also the issue of something, or course. so wow, here's people that are not necessarily questioning the effectiveness of that seen themselves. it's more of the process of how this rolled out and be coerced. an aspect of the l in that is, that intrudes into so many different aspects of people's lives. as mentioned earlier, all the different spaces where this check people have concerns over that compared to previous they have seen passports for things like yellow paper that was mentioned earlier that were more. ready specifically for international travel, not necessarily for movement from business to business within your own community.

so the issue of how deep this will ride in society is something that has really drawn a lot of your from people and caused a lot to come down to the streets across you're doing fanta. do we actually know what sort of dance these health policies will generate? i mean, we just talk about what the state of health is of an individual at any given time. or are we talking about that and locations who they meet with? how long they spend in a location or close to someone. i'm through the latter half of what you described is more similar to the avalon tree. any check up that people in the u. k. used in order to be alerted, if they did were at risk of contract, it could be 19, based on a location, be, could be 19 vaccination path. on the other hand, would be more marquee existing medical records. again,

we see that to this has been in use of for some time. and the problem now is that internationally, there isn't that much agreement on the extent of data that should be included in some of it. but if we go with the plans going forward for international travel, we know that the u. k. app which also holds your explanation. status is accepted in other countries. i think it could be improved. however, if there was a universal platform for that to be for all countries to agree upon with that vital information about vaccination data, really the alert model could be separate from gabriel. i wonder since a lot of countries are using some kind of coven tracking app, is this such a big deal to ask people to also now carry a vaccine path? were already many of us being tracked anyway. i mean, by,

by the code. of course, i don't think it's a big deal of it. i live in a society where young people have to prove their age by showing id when they go into a license, premise nightclub or above that sells out. gold is perfectly normal. i think there are 2 things, but firstly, it don't seem to be working in france because the vaccination rates, which have faltered, i've been shooting up not so it don't seem to work. and secondly, there as all the thing, any time vaccination has become a big issue because of my panoramic disease or epidemic disease there of always being people who oppose vaccination for centuries. and it's often linked into a lot of very strange theories about the course of control about strange changes to your body of people taking external control of you. and i think the use of social media in particular as a lot of lot of these interest and protests to grow. and i think this will

bit away and we will get to a situation where many, many countries actually have covert 19 under control. and there will be no need for this, provided we do all the measures and take all the measures to get society living safely. ok, let me off that point then to brandon, why a protest is, is it a little bit too late for us to be worried about a health path? if many of us since last year had to carry and still have to carry some kind of cobra tracking app that records all the information that we're worried about. well, was those apps, there were different options available. some people were able to opt out of them. and so i think that there is some difference there in between what was presented last year just to try to trace and see if you were exposed to go bit versus having

this record in terms of how this would actually be applied. it's still a little bit unknown where the data would be going and where that would be held. and so that's something that would have to be really explored more and kind of need more generally available to the public. i think a lot of the mystery around this sensor had them in the system implemented in the modern age, with modern technology, smartphones, etc. people have a lot of questions and that's allowed for, as mentioned earlier, the social media, you know, discussion of the just run rampant and you know, some people have different concerns. oh, great. some. maybe even they had incorrect information regarding how this would actually use, but it hasn't been clearly outlined with all of that. and, you know, there's always the concerns over whether that could be used in the variously again, somebody. i mean, one would hope that something like just vaccination status or,

you know, simple information related to that wouldn't be an issue. but there's also no one's associated with that data. we're to be associate with the cation with who you associate with, like meeting in person. and so those concerned, especially given that this would be implemented in different countries that have different governments, different systems, it would, it would be very uncertain at this time. but i think the governments are going to have you try to better about explaining them. ok, i can see gabriel wants to get in on this. go ahead. gabriel. i think there is one point where we might be in into a vaccination and proof of vaccination for a long haul and i think that isn't in the health care realm. i'm one of the interviewees at the beginning, talked about going into hospital working and so on. there being a very disturbing number of breaks during the covert pandemic in the hospitals were really vulnerable. patients having treatment for cancer being in immune suppressed

have being i've died in substantial numbers on wards where cobra got onto the board and we do protect patients from for example, hepatitis b and in the u. k. at least there is a requirement for people doing procedures with patients that are potentially transmissible. appetite as be transmissible opportunities. they have to be vaccinated to do their job. and i personally feel that whole area of health and social care where people are bon ruble. i think that is one area where we will have to have a continuing requirement for cobra. 19 vaccination oksana. it's clearly one of the big concerns is about who holds the information and what they can do with it. but isn't it true or santa that once you agree to upload your information to an app or that's a digital system, gather your information,

there are really few laws to say what can or cannot be done in terms of who gets access to it. and it can be shared with, right, one thing in this case everything will be discussed in terms of ensuring that data protection is in place for something as important as international vaccination status. i. gabriel had mentioned these types of record have existed previously. it's just going to be putting it into a new form. and we also know that other electronic summary care records have been used in different settings as well. so i think perhaps this is being a distraction from what the overall goal is and the fact that to some degree medical records are huge in different ways. anyhow, i think again, there may be specific legislation that needs to be introduced to and just to

reassure the population. and i also agree with our guest journalists who, who says that, that communication to the public needs to be clearer, i think, in order to gain that trust. but absolutely, as this should be a fundamental requirement for any person working in a care home setting. in the u. k, we had one of the most high rates of mortality in a care home. specifically when there were no vaccines available. it just goes to show that shielding is not an effective strategy for the vulnerable, based on our, our history, the pandemic so far. so we're going to need to continue to ensure that all staff whose job it is to protect their patients are going to have to take this up. and, and i think that there is going to be a mandate of this sort use in many different countries, at least not. and we know that also the virus moves where people move. so an international travel level. we're also going to have to consider ensuring what the

border policies are going to be. as we know many countries in the world currently have a low income, only have 1 point one percent of their population vaccinated. that is pro high levels of transmission. high level within the community really do help variance to emerge. so either we have an aggressive vaccination policy that is locally coordinated right against it as well as a conservative approach towards reopening. but many countries are not conservative about the reopening in its full steam ahead. so therefore, we need to push harder on vaccination. nothing. all right, let me focus on a couple of points which i think that we're heading towards. the idea of this is an exceptional situation. brendan, how convincing. do you find that argument that this is exceptional, either that for most people are not going to have to carry a vaccine pass or

a health path? for most of the time, this is something which is either temporary or exceptional. if you work in a care home or for some exceptional category of people, they're the only ones who might have to deal with long term. well in terms of compulsory vaccination that would be more specific to these other settings like health care workers and people that have been tasked with caring for others. the damage has obviously been extremely significant in effect at all levels of society. so it's definitely an extraordinary situation. and so it's not shocking that is something new would be tried to be implemented. but this is, like i said earlier, something the governments are going to have to be clear about what are the intentions, what this is intended to be a for, you know, new policy that's going to just become part of everyday life. or is it something

that's going to be limited? are there going to be specific metrics where the rates fall to a certain level or a global lead? the pen is brought under control to a certain extent when they relapse restrictions on. that how would that be coordinated? amongst other governments, i think protest is you've spoken to would, would be comforted by that if government did say that sort of thing. a lot of them probably would not be a lot of them would be skeptical and a bigger issue of probably or isn't the yes, the issue of trust is huge in all of this, and there's many and that's why if the parents protest specifically over the last few weeks here, they've been targeting various different government buildings to protest outside of going outside of the constitutional counsel. it's definitely been something we're taking it directly to different offices calling for more transparency, but there definitely are questions over whether those statements, if they were to be issue would be here to and if people stopped all that, i mean,

i think what we've got about a minute left, let me quickly ask gabriel. what's the bottom line of these pos is going to get us back to some kind of normal life. we people can go out and resume activities or take us some kind of science fiction world where, you know, maybe you will be prevented because you're so monitored you can be told, sorry, you can't come here because you met or you were close to x, y, z as yesterday. well, i don't think we've got the sophistication judging by the way in which many of the things to the pan danica being handled. i really doubt the sophistication of a lot of the, the data systems on all of the systems we put in place. and i don't think this is going to last long. i think we are going to have to adopt a much broader perspective in terms of what we need to do as a society to try and get the to get this pandemic and get this virus controlled. weeping very narrowly focused, often one thing at

a time. rather than thinking more broadly and, you know, we also need to understand that there are, have a big commercial interest in play here. the e u and the urban commission in particular has taken a very strong line on freedom of move. and even when countries wanted to restrict that in the interests of public health. so and passports are clearly a part of that as well. but what we need are good strategic plans to get the virus under control. i think that's one thing we can all agree on. good strategic plans to get the virus on the control. good to end on a on the point of consensus. let's thank congress so much because we are out of time brendan goods in chicago, oksana pic, and gabriel, scally. and thank you too for watching. you can see the show again any time by visiting our website al jazeera dot com for further discussion head over to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash

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