who god, the god local mother was, i don't know if this recovery olympics has been effective at all. there's a big gap between the money spent on the games and the reality of the situation here. and there used to be farms and a lot of houses here, but now there's nothing. i don't really feel this was a reconstruction olympics. some level of normality is returning here. but it's the people of this region rather than the olympics, making sure it happens. and the richardson al jazeera fukushima ah, hello again. the headlines on al jazeera, the major new un climate report has issued a code red warning for the future of humanity. the i p. c. c says changes to the climate are inevitable and irreversible. however, it also says that immediate rapid and large scale reductions in greenhouse gas emissions could limit warming. it is indisputable that human is causing

climate change and making extreme weather events more frequent and severe. second, it shows that climate changes affecting every region on our planet. and lastly, explain that strong, rapid sustain reductions in carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gas emissions would be required to limit global warming work stream heat and dry winds are feeling several wildfires around the world, at least for huge fires are burning out of control in greece. seems on the island if ever you haven't go 5 more villages and more than 2000 people have been rescued since last week over in california, the so called dixie fire is now the 2nd largest in the state's history. it's one of 11 wildfires, devastating the space at least 8 people are missing. authorities say it will not be fully extinguished for 2 more weeks. are rapid offensive by the taliban is overwhelming afghan forces. the arm group says it's taking control of assist

provincial capital and just 3 days. the most significant gain is the northern city of conduce it says it's also taken the nearby city of telecom on cerebral. at least 51 civilians have been killed in attacks by armed groups in northern malia, that's according to the army. it happens in villages near the border with new share across the border and brick in a fall. so at least 12 soldiers have been killed and 7 more are missing in an attack in the northwest. it follows the killing of 2 prominent rebel fighters in that same area. the bell, a russian president, alexander luther shanker, has defended his leadership of the country marks a year since he was elected for a 6 term. let the opposition call erect votes. he denies any involvement in the recent death of a bell or an activist in ukraine. those are the headlines on al jazeera, more news at the top of the hour, coming up after inside story. thanks for watching. bye bye. news.

news. news. ah, protests gather in france and italy again. so cold help passes, keeping population safe or violating civil liberties. this is inside story. ah hello and welcome to the show. i'm sammy's a, than governments around the world stepping off efforts to combat the pandemic. but the spread of new variances posing a new challenge. some countries are turning to technology for

a possible solution. france and italy are introducing so called health passes. this is difficult shows who's received at least one job tested negative, all recently recovered from covey. 19, although a majority say they support the system. thousands have rejected it saying it infringes basic rights. governments hope it'll encourage vaccinations, reduce infections, and help track clusters much faster. groove over totally the room where you feed and worth if you say to me, i don't want to be vaccinated, but if to morrow you in fact your father, your mother or myself, i'm a victim of your freedom. when you've had the possibility to have had something to protect yourself and managing director, it's not pulling on. i don't see the vaccine is in our hands, and that's what counts. after that, everyone is free to express themselves in a calm and respectful manner. as i understood it from the beginning, i don't think there's much point in demonstrating against those who are against the

health path insist they should have the right to refuse the vaccine without consequences. the best day was i will be deprived of freedom because i have chosen not to get vaccinated and not to take the p c r test. soon, i can no longer go anywhere. i can only stay at home, can you imagine? and i'll continue to pay my taxes that's not normal. i can keep up with this creates a division between the population of people who are vaccinated and those who are not, there will be checks everywhere. there will be a real tracking of the population soon. people won't be able to even go to the hospital if they're not vaccinated. it's absolutely unacceptable. that's what it's been nearly a year and a half. and i can see that public and mental health is degrading. and i can notice that nothing is being done to address that. instead, they're taking away resources and hospital beds from us. we're being forced to have a health pass and i realized that from september 15,

i may have to stop working and leave my colleagues on their own to handle patients and people who are not mentally, well, i'm a psychiatrist and not from bearable. we'll bring in our guests surely, but 1st let's take a closer look at the issue. the european union is introducing a vaccine passport across all its 27 member states. pass holders will be exempt from testing or quarantine in one crossing and you border the u. s. rolled out mandatory vaccination possible saying citizens privacy and rights should be protected. but 4 states use vaccination tracking apps. china introduced a q r code system last year to trace infections. it also launched the digital health certificate that shows the hold is vaccine status and test results. and israel is bringing back a vaccine path. it with true cases of rising that because of the delta variant, the had to bring in our gas now into the shower. we have joining us from

paris, brandon gotten fargo and independent reporter covering health path protests across europe in london, oksana p chic lead at the global citizenship program on outbreaks of infectious diseases at the university college of london. and in bristol, in the u. k. gabriel scally visiting professor of public health at the university of bristol and a member of the scientific advisory group for emergencies. a warm welcome to all if i could start with brendan, what exactly are protest is upset about? is it more about privacy being violated? brendan, all freedom of movement being restricted it's been a combination of both. i've heard from protesters here that there's concerns over the intrusion into their privacy, particularly from the array of different places that will now be checking this whole pass. so in france and particular destiny include bars, restaurants,

a is interested in trans hospitals, nursing homes, and so people have concerns over just the scope of where this is going to be rolled out and the degrees we're just going to be implemented. as you mentioned earlier, it's got a few options with it in terms of pullback, summation, or proven test that there was negative within 48 hours or a positive test. it's recovered within 6 months, but it still concerns over the past itself and how that's going to be implemented throughout society. let's ask once on the plus side, gabriel, do health passes help to contain covered? is it proven? does it have a track record, or is this just an experiment? well, almost everything we're doing with regard to cobra 19 is in a sense and experiment. it's all new territory, though, we'll have to say to you that the idea of a vaccine passport is

a very old one. they've been in place internationally for decades and they still considered continue to be in place internationally for things like yellow fever or polio meningitis in some cases. so there's nothing new in it. i think there are 2 things about it. first of all, there is an assumption almost that once someone has been vaccinated and can prove it, that they're kind of safe and, and won't transmit the disease. but that's not true. we know that people who are double vaccinate it can get cold at 19 that can be ill with it and they can trans met the infection to others. so it's not a silver bullet. it's not a cure all. i think the 2nd thing about it is that it is a temporary measure because we have to get this dreadful virus under control. and we need a mixture of measures, some of them about the infrastructure of ventilation, some of that about personal behavior of what we're ma, some, some good about making sure the facts in the nation is really taken up as fast as

possible because we're not safe until we're all set and therefore i think it is legitimate to times to consider vaccination as something that we should be a requirement particularly to protect the vulnerable people. all right, you've, you've opened up a whole bunch of issues which actually i want to pick up on. let me start with one of them with our santa gabriel mentioned there. that you know, this doesn't protect you having a vaccine and having, i guess, having a vaccine pass for a health pulse doesn't mean you're safe and up to use gabriel's words. why a government's came to adopt this then while the vaccines are still extremely effective against severe disease and severe symptoms. so we still have a very high low protection in that regard. despite the fact that delta has really changed the equation around transmit ability. this is twice as infectious as the

wild strain or the original 3rd of t could be 2. so from that perspective, let me verify. i wasn't questioning the wisdom of getting vaccinated and of course we, we encourage people to go out and do that. but particularly the vaccine path system or the health path system, if it doesn't make a huge difference. well, why are we arguing about it then? well, i think that was my point. it does make a big difference, but there is still some risk involved. so breakthrough infections which occur when you have already had 2 doses of vaccine are very rare, but still occur. and that means that people who are vulnerable and the elderly are particularly at risk and we even see some variability depending on the type of vaccine the person has received. so i think we need to definitely portrayed that having both do this does make a significant difference, but it doesn't make the risk be row. and other precautions may still be needed a long time that i think that would be real main point. so i think that the

governments are encouraging that because it will keep people out of hospital. and when we see that they become overwhelmed when walked down to kick in and no one walked to see that to occur again. this winter. ok, let me take upon which gabriel mentioned to brandon. there have been vaccine passports of some sort around for a long time for other diseases. why the concern now? is it more about the age that we live in the digital age and the, the technology to record a vaccine passport now is a little different from, you know, some of the diseases of 201500 years ago. i think there's a combination of a couple of things here. so there's the technology aspect of it and the risks that are associated with that. in older times it was simply documentation, paper and the records weren't easily hackable or easily shareable amongst devices

and things like that. compared to the way that they are today. so there's concerns over that, especially in the wake of, in the last few months in the last few years, various different cybersecurity issues, companies have business. and so there are concerns that this type of data and information, the hands of some of the even ones within the government that that would be of significant. there's also the issue of something, or course. so wow, here's people that are not necessarily questioning the effectiveness of that seen themselves. it's more of the process of how this rolled out and be coerced. an aspect of the l in that is, that intrudes into so many different aspects of lives. as mentioned earlier, all the different spaces where this check people have concerns over that compared to previous they have seen passports for things like yellow paper that was

mentioned earlier that were more. ready specifically for international travel, not necessarily for movement from business to business, would be your own community. so the issue of how deep this will ride in society is something that has really drawn a lot of your from people and caused a lot to come down to the streets across europe. doing fanta, do we actually know what sort of dance these health policies will generate? i mean, we just talk about what the state of healthy is of an individual at any given time . or are we talking about that and locations who they meet with? how long they spend in a location or close to someone. i'm through the latter half of what you described is more similar to the avalon tree. any check up that people in the u. k. used in order to be alerted, if they did were at risk of contract, it could be 19 based on

a location of the 19 vaccination path. on the other hand, would be more marquee existing medical records. again, we see that to this has been in use of for some time. and the problem now is that internationally, there isn't that much agreement on the extent of data that should be included in some of it. but if we go with the plans going forward for international travel, we know that the u. k. app which also holds your explanation. status is accepted in other countries. i think it could be improved. however, if there was a universal platform for that to be for all countries degree upon with that vital information about vaccination data, really the alert model could be separate from that. gabriel, i wonder since a lot of countries are using some kind of coven tracking app. is this

such a big deal to ask people to also now carry a vaccine path? were already many of us being tracked anyway. i mean, by the cobra. of course, i don't think it's a big deal of it. i live in a society where young people have to prove their age by showing id when they go into a license, premise nightclub or above that sells out. gold is perfectly normal. i think there are 2 things, but firstly, it don't seem to be working in france because the vaccination rates, which have faltered, i've been shooting up not so it don't seem to work. and secondly, there as all the thing, any time vaccination has become a big issue because of my panoramic disease or epidemic disease. there have always been people who oppose vaccination for centuries. and it's often linked into a lot of very strange theories about the course of control about strange changes to

your body of people taking external control of you. and i think the use of social media in particular as a lot of lot of these interest and protests to grow. and i think this will bit away and we will get to a situation where many, many countries actually have covert 19 under control. and there will be no need for this, provided we do all the measures and take all the measures to get society living safely. ok, let me off that point then to brandon, why a protest is, is it a little bit too late for us to be worried about a health path? if many of us since last year had to carry and still have to carry some kind of cobra tracking app that records. all the information that we're worried about well was though, is the apps, there were different options available. some people were able to opt out of them.

and so i think that there is some difference there in between what was presented last year, just to try to trace and see if you were exposed to go bit versus having this record. you know, in terms of how this would actually be applied, it's still a little bit unknown about where the data would be going and where that would be held. and so that's something that would have to be really explored more and kind of need more generally available to the public. i think a lot of the mystery around this sensor has in the system implemented in the modern age, with modern technology, smartphones, etc. people have a lot of questions and that's allowed for as, as mentioned earlier, the social media discussion for the just run rampant. and you know, some people have different concerns. oh, great. some maybe even they had incorrect information regarding how this would actually use, but it hasn't been clearly outlined with all of that. and you know,

there's always the concerns over whether that could be using a furiously against somebody. i mean, one would hope that something like just vaccination status or, you know, simple information related to that wouldn't be an issue. but there's also no one's associated with that data. we're to be associate with the cation with who you associate with meeting in person. and so those concerned, especially given that this would be implemented in different countries that have different governments, different systems, it would, it would be very uncertain at this time, but i think the governments are going to have you try to better about explaining them. ok, i can see gabriel wants to get in on this. go ahead. gabriel. i think there is one point where we might be in into a vaccination and proof of vaccination for a long haul. and i think that isn't in the health care rel, i'm one of the interviewees at the beginning,

talked about going into hospital and working. so i'm there being a very disturbing number of i'd, breaks during the covert. pandemic in the hospitals were really vulnerable. patients having treatment for cancer, being in immune suppressed being i've died in substantial numbers on wards where cova got onto the board and we do protect patients from for example, hepatitis b and in the u. k. at least there is a requirement for people doing procedures with patients that are potentially transmissible. appetite as be transmissible opportunities. they have to be vaccinated to do their job. i personally feel that whole area of health and social care where people are born ruble. i think that is one area where we will have to have a continuing requirement for colbert 19 vaccination oksana. it's clearly one of the big concerns is about who holds the information and what they can do with it. but

isn't it true or santa that once you agree to upload your information to an app or less a digital system, gather your information? there are really few laws to say what can or cannot be done in terms of who gets access to it. and it can be shared with right, one thing in this case, everything will be discussed in terms of ensuring that data protection is in place for something as important as international vaccinations data. gabriel had mentioned these types of record have existed previously. it's just going to be putting it into a new form. and we also know that other electronic summary care records have been used in different settings as well. so i think perhaps this is being a distraction from what the overall goal is and the fact that to some degree

medical records are used in different ways. anyhow, i think again, there may be specific legislation that needs to be introduced to and just to reassure the population. and i also agree with our guest journalists who, who says that, that communication to the public needs to be clear. i think in order to gain that trust, but absolutely this should be a fundamental requirement for any person working in a care home setting. in the u. k, we had one of the most high rates of mortality in a care home. specifically, when there were no vaccines available, that just goes to show that shielding is not an effective strategy for the vulnerable, based on our, our history, the pandemic so far. so we're going to need to continue to ensure that all staff whose job it is to protect their patients are going to have to take this up. and, and i think that there is going to be

a mandate of this sort use in many different countries, at least do not. and we know that also the virus moves where people move. so an international travel level. we're also going to have to consider ensuring what the border policies are going to be. as we know many countries in the world currently have a low income recently have 1 point one percent of their population vaccinated. that is pro high levels of transmission. high level within the community really do help variance g emerge. so either we have an aggressive vaccination policy that is locally coordinated right against it, as well as a conservative approach towards reopening, but many countries are not conservative about the re opening it full steam ahead. so therefore, we need to push harder on vaccination. nothing. all right, let me focus on a couple of points which i think that we're heading towards. the idea of this is an exceptional situation. brendan,

how convincing. do you find that argument that this is exceptional, either that for most people are not going to have to carry a vaccine pass or a health path? for most of the time, this is something which is either temporary or exceptional. if you work in a care home or for some exceptional category of people, they're the only ones who might have to deal with long term. well in terms of compulsory vaccination that would be more specific to these other settings like health care workers and people that have been tasked with caring for others. the damage has obviously been extremely significant and affected all levels of society. so is definitely an extraordinary situation. and so it's not shocked that is something new would be tried to be implemented, but this is, like i said earlier, something governments are going to have to be clear about what are the intentions

with this is this intended to be a full, you know, new policy that's going to just become part of everyday life. or is it something that's going to be limited, or they're going to be specific metrics where rates fall to a certain level or global lead. the pen is brought under control to a certain extent when they relapse restrictions. on that, how would that be coordinated amongst other governments? i think the test is you've spoken to would would be comforted by that if government did say that sort of thing. a lot of them probably would not be. a lot of them would be skeptical. and the bigger issue of probably or isn't the yes, the issue of trust is huge in all this, and there's many and that's why if the parents protest specifically over the last few weeks here, they've been targeting various different government buildings to protest outside of going outside of the constitutional counsel, it's definitely been something we're taking it directly to different offices

calling for more transparency, but there definitely are questions over whether those statements, if they were to be issue would be here to when people stop to all that, i mean, i think what we've got about a minute left. let me quickly ask gabriel. what's the bottom line of these pos is going to get us back to some kind of normal life. we people can go out and resume activities. it will take us some kind of science fiction world where, you know, maybe you will be prevented because you're so monitored you can be told, sorry, you can't come here because you met or you were close to x y z eb yesterday. well, i don't think we've got the sophistication judging by the way, in which many of the things to the pan danica being handled. i really don't the sophistication of a lot of the, the data systems and all of the systems we put in place. and i don't think this is going to last long. i think we are going to have to adopt a much broader perspective in terms of what we need to do as

a society to try and get the to get this pandemic and get this virus controlled. weeping very narrowly focused, often one thing at a time. rather than thinking more broadly, and we also need to understand that there are haven't big commercial interests in play here. the e u and the urban commission particular has taken a very strong line on freedom of move. and even when countries wanted to restrict that in the interest of public health, so and passports are clearly a part of that as well. but what we need are a good strategic plans to get the virus under control. i think that's one thing we can all agree on. good strategic plans to get the virus on the control. good to end on or on the point of consensus. let's thank august so much because we are out of time brendan goods in chicago on, on a pic and gabriel scally. and thank you to for watching,

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