wanda, i have to get water, which my son brought up and they got on my can she can she life has changed dramatically. we cannot even secure the basics for the yet and i'm know that i'm along. yeah. i see this is the laundry. it's been in the machine since yesterday. i can't wash because the one our electricity we get does not cover the washing cycle . this is the fridge where we are putting the food that doesn't go back across the room at the will. of course, i believe the government and the leaders, all of them means all of them and see that i've been and we're all tired, but pick hi, this is how we live. we have nothing to offer them but well use of the situation. but my daughter bit my heart of the movie, it seems like i cannot provide for her like before. ah,

this is jeanetta. let's get a round up of the top stories. local sources say the taliban has sees control of another 2 provincial capitals in the south of afghanistan. the fall of last got a guy and kandahar the country. second city would be the most significant gain for the on group since it's offensive began. the u. s. in the u. k, are sending more than 3 and a half 1000 troops to cobble to help with the evacuation of embassy staff and local interpreters. the us state department says this is not a complete evacuation, and it's embassy will remain open. these are the 2 most important cities in the south kandahar in particular. being based in kandahar province is really almost like a fortress while much kind of a province was being taken back by the taliban. the government has been committed to defending at all costs kandahar. he has some of the better military units. there

was able to call and asked support in fact, including us as strikes as a way of trying to keep the taliban at bay. but it seems that overnight said that they breached the defenses of the city of votes being counted in zambia, the presidential and parliamentary elections. president edgar longer seeking a controversial 3rd term and was thought to be an extremely tied race. the number of people killed in floods in northern turkey has risen to 27. lexi provinces were hit hard by heavy rain this week homes were destroyed and vehicles was swept away. torrential rain in japan has triggered a mudslide that engulf 2 houses in the city of wounds in nagasaki. prefecture for people was swept away, one was found dead, and 2 others still missing those, all the headlines were back in half an hour inside stories. next is the country about to collapse before the kind of reform you're talking about can take place. we

bring you the stories and developments that are rapidly changing the world we live in. why are we not in the best situation? why has that money been squandered? how did that happen? counting the cost on al jazeera is called the $19.00 heard immunity becoming amid you virus variance and the unequal distribution is acting to making it more difficult to achieve that goal. so we'll government need new strategies to control the pandemic. this is inside story. ah hello, welcome to the program, kim vanelle fell into a long said so called heard immunity is needed to slow down. the spread of covert 19 and 2070 percent or more of the population is protected from the virus either by

becoming infected or by being vaccinated. but some experts now doubt it can be achieved the head of the you case oxford vaccine group says. and because of the contagious delta variant, new infections and deaths rising steadily in person despite 3 quarters of people being fully vaccinated. andrew, paula had this warning to em peeve. we know very clearly with the current of ours that this tar bear and very will still in fact people have been vaccinated. and that does mean that anyone who still i'm vaccinated at some point will meet the virus. i think we are in a situation here with this current parent where community is not a possibility because it's the effects to individuals. and i suspect the will, the school next is a, is a variant which is perhaps even better at trans matching in vaccinated populations

. and so that's an even more of a reason not to be making a vaccine program around her immunity. other countries with high vaccination rates are also struggling to contain the delta variant. israel, where 60 percent of adults are fully immune eyes to is re imposing limits on gatherings and restricting and or venues to those who have been vaccinations in the us. 70 percent of adults have received at least one job, but the pace of acceleration has slowed down the military, some hospitals and businesses, and now making jobs mandatory. and heard immunity is far from being achievable in the developing world. the university of oxford are world and data, so it's only 1.2 percent of people in low income countries have received at least one dose of the vaccine. ah. ok, let's bring in august from new york, we have one of the other professor of epidemiology and medicine and columbia

university in hong kong. we have john nichols clinical professor and pathology at the university of hong kong. and from johanna spoke helen rees member of south africa ministerial advisory committee for cove at 19. and coven vaccines. very welcome to all, thank you for joining us. i'd like to begin with you. what are some of the, at the start of the pandemic? we were all saying heard immunity, it was the buzzword. that's what we need. heard. immunity is that done and dusted. now is the cat out of the bag. i think we need at this point to, to really change the discourse and maybe change the narrative around what our goals are. and i think rather than using that term. so in unity and knowing that these vaccines we have, which are really super vaccines do not absolutely protect against every single infection but can't protect against us if you're in the hospital i patient. and maybe we should move to using more of a terminology protection rather than heard in unity as much more of

a seasonal goal for all of us to try to achieve, to automate trying and scale up vaccination around the world. so we can protect as many people around the world possible from the most severe effects of this fibers missed calls, is that your take as well that heard immunity is not an achievable goal? yes, i agree with what's been said before and also to pick up what you also previously said. is that the, the 2 ways of cheating, the hood immunity with the, the true natural infection or through the vaccination? i think the experience in northern europe last year has shown that basically doing it through the natural infection is not the way to go least for another taxable mortality. so vaccination is the way to go. but the problem is, is that because we're dealing with now on a virus noted dna boss, it's always going to be news facing. and so i don't think we're going to be able to

get this level of in the population of immune to see that we would like to with other g and vaccines calls. what does that mean for the future though? i mean, well, the virus then be here with us to stay in one form or another for the foreseeable future. i think we look at the other on a bosses which ran well line. i think influenza is a good model to use because these are the vaccine videos. our boss is always mutating and he don't get with the vaccination, a lifelong image, unity or protection. so i think we're going to be seeing like we've seen of the past year. we've got to be seeing the variance of the vos evolving, and then we're going to be seeing that the fact that the vaccines, which we have will not be able to give that complete protection. so i think we look at the expense of the implant and we have not been able to achieve. mean you see on that. so we can be looking at either annual vaccinations and the recognition that

we were going to have to. so adapt and, and live with advice in the community. on that point, helen res. i'd like to bring you in as well as being a member of south africa's ministerial advisory committee. for coven, you are also a member of the w t. o strategic advisory group of experts on the coven, 19 vaccine. so you're very well placed to answer this question. is the world of global ball and bodies? governments? are they pivoting in the way they should be to this new understanding this new acceptance that heard immunity is not a goal that we should be looking for? and i think the answer is yes. i also think that there's a technical definition of heard immunity. and i don't think that's what people are actually asking for. i think what the communities are saying and countries are saying if we want to get back to some sort of normality we want to protect, we want to get so they can all make situations stabilize the income being earned

again. but we also want to impact on transmission, and those things are not necessarily the same as the chief in unity. so i agree with my colleagues, what we need to do is probably change what we're aiming for. i think we are adding a thought to normality and in order to achieve that, we certainly need to get a vaccine coverage well lives up much, much higher. and you mentioned the counsel of the d. g counsel station is a goal for a 70 percent vaccination coverage by the middle of 2022. so that's the kind of thing that we, we probably need to be discussing. and what would that mean in terms of getting countries and communities back to us before we move on, i mean that goal for the continent of africa, where i believe just 1.5 percent of the 1000000000 people on the continent has actually been vaccinated is that even a realistic goal?

well, the one good thing is that a lot of the countries in our region are looking towards the kodak facility, which is going to be providing the faxes and also the african union. and the vaccines on now, it's starting to become available that we very much hoping that in the next 3 months that we're going to see a much larger back into the country. the, the, the big question for many countries however, is that we're trying to introduce the brand new back with a new target with not sure which is what we normally do into very weak health services. so the question is, will we be able to absorb back and distribute them and get them to the, the population for most at risk and then out to the board of population going to be a very big challenge. and the 3rd thing is that we have to sustain your 70 percent from under 2 percent, which is where we off is that huge jump. and that will require

a commitment not only from back the manufacturers to all the time limited income countries, including our region, but also to support the purchasing of these back the bank support services so that we can roll about otherwise, we're not going to manage that. and if we don't manage them, we won't be able to, we have a whole continent where we're not able to get back to mission coverage are really significant. we are not going to be able to break the back of them. ok, no fall. so i want to come back to you, how is it that we've gotten to this point now where we're looking to head protection rather than heard? immunity is a matter of the vaccination rollout. just being too slow. the delta vary and coming in. what are, what are the factors that you see that have gotten us to this point? several factors, and some of them were touched on by my colleagues on this, on this program is i think it's, it's the nature of the infection itself. because what has been a charge of axioms,

we have our hands, and i think we, what we know is that the vaccine don't provide for immunity, meaning protect people, the recipient of the vaccine from giving infected. we know that back things are really good at preventing illness and preventing optimizations and best 19. so because of the fact that they don't provide full in unity, meaning protection against infection, it makes it very hard to, to aim for. achieving heard in unity. so i think it is, it's an appreciation and much more realistic, realistic appreciation of the nature of the virus itself. and it's transmission. it's high realty, very confused, as well as the challenge with the evolution of new i want and the nature of the vaccines we have. all of these aren't together. give us pause in terms of amy for heard in unity. i think what we need to focus on is, as,

as helen mentioned as well, is we need to think about how can we use the vaccines we have at hand to be able to protect as many of our population of the global competition is as possible from the severe consequences that can happen from over 90. and that means we have to scale up vast vaccine availability and distribution and deployment to places around the world where this hasn't happened thus far. there's now huge disparity that's become very evident where with the richer country is wealthier countries having access to back scenes. while other countries around the world are still at one or 2 percent coverage with the scenes or just this is just a tenable situation and it is so i always say if there's covert anywhere, there's covered everywhere. so we have to think and moving forward. how do we protect the global community from the dire consequences of covered 90 to the use of

our vaccine? less than the goals if we're not looking to would heard immunity, we're not looking toward elimination either. are we going to start to see people who are vaccinated getting sicker with the same virus or with new new mutations of this virus? i think the extension of time is that the answer is no. right now, is that those of invention i said, is that they can get actually very mild infection. and i think it's not just us infection, but the ability to transmit. because these people may be also ice and magical, had very mild symptoms, which is going to mean that the chain of transmission is there's not going to be broken. but as the 2 previous speakers have already mentioned, in the main functional fascination is actually decrease mortality. and morbidity, and i think all the days which has come in been been come across from all costs. well, is that the fuse and the incentive in the hospital is that the thing is the unvaccinated

for developing the sphere disease. now we're getting every now and then you know, some, a very small number of cases of margaret disease and the facts. nice. but the main thing on the vaccination is to decrease mortality and morbidity as to reduce the strain on the health care. i guess i just wanted to know that it was my question. i mean the science, what was the very clear getting back and a to do a much the font key to get very on. well you're, you're, you're less likely to pass the virus own even. but my question is, if the virus is still going around in the community, even with the vaccinated people, all we going to seeing you mutations the, the office. fortunately, yes, because the, because these are the facts, these are the bosses. the more you get a boss replicating the grace of the chance of mutations can be occurring, it's just by the sheer numbers. so if you can actually get those numbers down,

all the number of people being infected or the number of severe cases where from producing more costs than you can be reducing that chance. but he's extra mutation to be coming in. so that's why we've been saying where there's been high rates of infection, that's what the mutations have been arising. so, and that's sort of the, the negative feedback is that what you don't want to have is if you can keep those mutations kind down, then that means that you don't need to come up every year with that with a new vaccine. so people break down that cycle of more vos being produced, and that's where it's going to be occurring in the reasons whether it's low faxing coverage in, in africa and also in, in parts of asia. so i think the main emphasis on this is what i feel quite strongly about it is, is instead of that booster, those would be to actually have the vaccines where there is a more chance of people getting the primary disease as he can actually decrease.

that, that potential for more mutations come about. we'll get to both shots at the moment, but 1st i want to come back to you, helen reads, should we be investing more in therapies for people who are sick? you know, we have time, a flu. if you've got the flu, what about people who get covert but who are vaccinated and might just get it in a mild way they get somewhat on well, is there enough invest in? is there enough investment in your opinion in that side? no, i don't think there is. um, i think that's an excellent point. i mean, one of the reasons that people individually, very frightened to this far offended community, had to go into locked downs repeatedly because we don't have good treatment. we don't have good treatment yet. we have some treatments, but then limited for people who are there and we don't have good treatment that don't people who've got moderate disease or mom disease progressing to that serious

and part. and when we got good vaccines, but we, we could also do some other interventions in addition to them off of the social distance thing of the ventilation that we are recommending at to assist in preventing infection. we happens in, in, in, in beth that i believe nearly enough in the, in the, of the therapy. the other problem is that some of the things that have looked very promising and indeed some of the things that are being evaluated, mouthful and treatment of hospitalized patients are extremely expensive. and so once again, i guessing a secondary effect of access to therapy for rich countries, which simply would not be feasible to be either manufactured or introduced into resource limited setting. so in addition to investing much more in therapy, we also need to say to, to think about what are going to be appropriate therapy to administer and to afford in their thoughts limited mis was coming back to booster shots. israel is,

is offering booster shots the u. k is planning to for the vulnerable to roll it out alongside the flu job without talking about vaccine equality globally, which is a whole other issue in which we've, we've dedicated a few programs to. but from, from a science point of view, what difference will boosters make to transmission to we? do we have any data? i think we have some data that do support that for specific population, specific groups of individual it boosted those may be maybe a value. we don't have data that supports the booster for the general population. so for example, there are some data that show that for some immunocompromised individual individuals, these people would we can the new system. for example, people who receive organ transplants or people on him with guy allison. so there are some data that tell us that in those individuals can be some gains in terms of

a boost of their antibodies. protective anti virus after receiving or don't actually shooting another, those same vaccine that before. so that's, this is a subset of the population. and i think that may be the focus moving forward when you're discussing booster dosing is to really try to think about where we have the data and where the focus should be. rather than thinking broadly of a need for booster, for the general population overall. and this is big and then not just be some issues of equity and access globally. but as you said, also based on the find, find difficulties or that we haven't had mr. nicole's. if we not talk, if we, if we're giving up the idea of her immunity and instead looking towards her protection, what does this mean for countries like new zealand that have basically attained elimination?

they're going to open up new deal and it's going to open up to vaccinated travelers from low risk countries next year. but based on this assumption that we're only going for heard protection is a global community, a country like that is going to have to accept that the virus is going to come in. and it's going to affect the population speaking as a new zone vested interest in that. but i think the reality is that what, what works well for one country will not work well for another. and you know, i think if you look at the across world for stress, stress seem to be doing very well. ready and then you just needed that one case to be brought into new south wales. and now you've got whether the 3000 people so. so even the, the inverse relation is that way you have a low, you know, the well, with the cobit last year is that the enthusiasm for vaccination is not as high. so and so the vaccination rate is higher in reason some countries which is suffered

and which had may drive breaks. so i think the whole problem is that we found this in many parts of the asia. we did very well, what residency? well, in the 1st part of last year, and so the enthusiasm could take up, the vaccine was not as high as possible. and that's a really big problem, is that we're still getting that stuff and 2530 percent, no matter what a government can do, the advertising, which is saying, basically we don't want the vaccination. so i think that's going to be the, the challenge for new zealand and those of expertise is that, how would you sort of convince that population lives are the ones you just see that one case. and that's in that 2530 percent. and also the what we'll spend talks about is off the 70 percent. i think we're ignoring the fact that the p dash population, which is the one which is which, if you've got countries with got 1520 percent of the population,

about the vaccination strategies for them. because right now what we're seeing is that where the boss is spreading, and this is the data coming out from the southern hemisphere is in the pediatric and the young adult population. that's a group which has not been that would be vaccination then day, spreading it to the parents and then to the grand parents. and it goes for that school. it was was happens in influenza. it's a, it's that pediatric relation which, which i think can be very challenging to get those numbers up to a sufficient protection. i think very round the early point. it's a very different ball game for those countries that don't have that experience of you know, everyone knows somebody who's had cove it or has had close it themselves or seen their local hospital. overwhelmed, very different countries that haven't had that. i don't come back to you on that front, helen rees. what is the best incentive for people to get vaccination from a public policy point of view? what do we know works to get people out and to get those jobs?

what don't think there's several things. one is that, and i think everyone's familiar with the, the anti backs expression. now that's the minority minority and those people exist full of it and they will exist off because they don't like vaccine and have many people that have given for that. but the majority of the sort of 30 percent that we just mentioned are people who are never, or people who don't even felt that risk. i mean, many young people in the trenches don't necessarily see themselves at risk and that's when i get it on the sick and the body. so why is that group those 2 on know, many of the reasons nothing like have we develop the vaccine too quickly. and so we have to be able to explain about things like compressing the pipeline backs in developments and monitoring to vaccines safety and, and people who want to see the vaccines rolled out to other people. the how did that go for them before they will, they will take it so. so i think the 1st thing we have to do and you know you've

got to be here with you is do a better job from the buyer perspective. and the public health perspective, after waiting those people, that cassidy to have the confidence to come forward. the 2nd thing is, you know, sort of sort of carrots and stick in the beginning to see this number of country that's from, for example, if you want to do that, because there's a, if you're not fascinated, you really will need to have a box. and if you want to go into restaurants, if you want to go into the source of it's the most current time to stick if you'd like. and i think we got to see more of those kinds of incentives. i put the incentives in the way because if you don't do be able to do that now. and the thing under why discussion is whether at some job, for example, it needs to be compulsory. the same. and kenya, discussion about topics says,

and we've seen in other countries discussion about health care workers. so if you're in a job in the age old age environment, and i do, you have a responsibility and the government have responsibility to show that you're backs. and i think countries around the world grappling with exactly that, hey, we're going to leave it there for time. thank you very much to all of our guests waffa or father john nichols and helen rees. and thank you to for want to, you can see the program again anytime by visiting our website to l, just or dot com. and to 3rd, the discussion go to our facebook page at facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter. handle is at a inside story for me can vanelle and the whole team here in dough half bye bye for now. the news the u. s. is pulling the last of its troops, alphabet guns. after

a 20 years old war to the conflict is far from over the telephone. there's only offensive claiming call them the house by the afghan government, despite international mediation, if it's what does the future hold special coverage or no, you are you dealing junior native good risk of extinction in bishop plan to read the nation of the predators sized them. one of the best to get on out here. if you were looking at this from the outside, you would really wonder what was going on, what, what is this growth is a religion that they have an in depth exploration of global capitalism. on our obsession with economic growth, this is still the center of capitalism. there is no limit. i view myself as a capital artist we are trying to bake as well as smaller and smaller. we don't want to be realistic in the well, we would rather have

a fantasy growing pains on al jazeera. the state of mind sits at the mouth of the radian gulf and big eastern end of the era peninsula. if you look at the raven peninsula as a whole, the essentially, to the ancient countries to the east, to west it's sometimes known as the switzerland of the gulf because of the important regional role is placed in the gulf cooperation council. the gtc platform on long history is not well known outside the gulf region before oil was discovered in 1962 fishing and prototyping words, main sources of income. in this film, we go back over the last 500 years of all 9. the history of the tribes, boris rebellion and colonization, and explore how and why man still plays an important regional role today.

ah morning government al jazeera as a, you know, i local sources in afghanistan, say 2 more provincial capitals have been taken by the tyler bonds. the 2nd largest city kandahar and laska god plus. so we believe that this is not only the right thing to do, but this is the right time to do it. american and british troops had to afghanistan to evacuate. embassy soften, others from cobbled ah .