and add or if that, but the forest cover is only 9 percent. most of the forests are subject to and coach men. overall, the situation is actually very sad and video environmental experts, one that overpopulation rapid industrialization, agricultural expansion and illegal logging will continue to degrade forest resources adversely affecting the natural ecosystem. and the climate turn, which audrey ologist data model, poor ah, it says add zeros. get around up now of our top stories. the title bond has made its most significant gains yet in an offensive bas, leaving, cobble dangerously exposed. it's captured afghan, us down, 2nd largest city kandahar, which is the grooves, the goose birthplace. taliban fighters also took control of lash ga. gov in the

past week 16 of the countries 34 provincial capitals have fallen short of bellis reports from campbell. just in the last few hours, the taliban say that they have claimed holy alarm, which is the provincial capital of logo, which is just south of cobbler. they say that they have control of the city and that the governor and his immediate staff have joined the movement. they do add, however, that there is some heavy fighting still in the city with special forces. but they say they have claimed it. we cannot independently verify that the reason is we spoke to said there has been very heavy fighting there this morning. atalla bonner's detain. the veteran commander of a militia in western afghanistan is my hon. known as the line of head out was taken as taliban fighters seized, the city con is one of the gang fans most prominent warlords battling soviets, occupies in the 19 eighties and working alongside us forces to topple the taliban

in 2001. a border crossing between pakistan and afghanistan has reopened, following a fight between gods and people waiting to cross earlier hundreds of afghans waiting to re enter the country through stones at security forces. who responded with tear gas. people were angry after an afghan traveller died while waiting to return home. torrential rain in japan has triggered a mudslide that engulfed 2 houses in the city of anson in nagasaki. prefecture for people was swept away. one was found dead, and 2 others are still missing. some areas have been told to prepare for evacuations. samsung's vice chairman has been released from prison in south korea after being granted perot jay, while he was serving a tune off your sentence for bribery, those that lines and stories next me

is because it gave heard immunity becoming a mis. you virus variance and the unequal distribution of vaccine to making it more difficult to achieve that goal. so we'll government need new strategies to control the pandemic. this is inside story. ah, ah, hello, welcome to the program. i'm kim vanelle. scientists have long said so called heard immunity is needed to slow down the spread of covert 19. that's when 70 percent or

more of the population is protected from the virus either by becoming infected or by being vaccinated. but some experts now doubt it can be achieved. the head of the u. k. the oxford vaccine group says, as because of the contagious delta variant, new infections and deaths rising steadily in person despite 3 quarters of people being fully vaccinated. andrew, paula had this warning to em peeve. we know very clearly with the current of ours that this tar bear and very will still in fact people have been vaccinated. and that doesn't mean that anyone who still i'm vaccinated at some point will meet the virus. i think we are in a situation here with this current parent where community is not a possibility because it's the effects to individuals. and i suspect the will, the school next is a, is a variant which is perhaps even better at trans matching in vaccinated populations

. and so that's an even more of a reason not to be making a vaccine program around her immunity. other countries with high vaccination rates are also struggling to contain the delta variant. israel, where 60 percent of adults are fully immune eyes to is reimpose and limits on gatherings and restricting and or venues to those who have been vaccinations in the us. 70 percent of adults have received at least one job. but the pace of vaccination has slowed down the military. some hospitals and businesses are now making jobs mandatory and heard immunity is far from being achievable in the developing world. the university of oxford, our world and data. so it's only 1.2 percent of people in low income countries have received at least one dose of the vaccine. ah. ok, let's bring in august from new york, we have one of the other professor of epidemiology and medicine and columbia

university. in hong kong, we have john nichols clinical professor pathology at the university of hong kong. and from johanna spoke helen rees, member of south africa ministerial advisory committee for cove at 19, and coven vaccines. very one welcome to all. thank you for joining us. i'd like to begin with you. what are some of the, at the start of the pandemic? we were all saying heard immunity. it was the buzzword. that's what we need. heard . immunity is that done and dusted. now is the cat out of the bag. i think we need at this point to, to really change the discourse and maybe change the narrative around what our goals are. and i think rather than using that term. so in unity and knowing that these vaccines we have, which are really super vaccines, do not absolutely protect against every single infection, but protect against a severe in this hospitalizations. and maybe we should move to using more of a terminology for protection, rather than heard in unity as much more of

a seasonal goal for all of us to try to achieve, to ultimately trying and scale up vaccination around the world. so we can protect as many people around the world as possible from the most severe effect of this fibers missed calls, is that your take as well that heard immunity is not an achievable goal? yes, i agree with what's been said before and also to pick up what you also previously said. is that the, the 2 ways of cheating, the hood immunity with the true natural infection or through the vaccination? i think the experience of northern europe last year has shown that basically doing it through the natural infection is not the way to go least another taxable mortality. so vaccination is the way to go. but the problem is, is that because we're dealing with now on a virus noted dna boss, it's always going to be news facing. and so i don't think we're going to be able to

get this level of in the population of immunity that we would like to with other g and vaccines calls. what does that mean for the future though? me? well, the virus then be here with us to stay in one form or another for the foreseeable future. i think we look at the other on a bosses which ran well lines. i think influenza is it, it is a good model to use. because these are the vaccine, the videos are bosses are always mutating and you don't get with the vaccination, a lifelong image, unity or protection. so i think we're going to be seeing like we've seen of the past year. we've got to be seeing the variance of the vos evolving, and then we're going to be seeing that the fact that the vaccines, which we have will not be able to give that complete protection. so i think we look at the expense of them when we have not been able to achieve. mean you see on that . so we're going to be looking at either annual vaccinations and the recognition

that we will going to have to so adapt and, and live with advice in the community on that point. helen res. i'd like to bring you in as well as being a member of south africa's ministerial advisory committee. for coven, you are also a member of the w t. o strategic advisory group of experts on the coven 19 vaccine . so you're very well placed onto this question. is the world of global ball and bodies? governments? are they pivoting in the way they should be to this new understanding this new acceptance that heard immunity is not a goal that we should be looking for. and the answer is yes, i also think that there is a technical definition of heard immunity, and i don't think that's what people are actually asking for. i think what the communities are saying and countries are saying if we want to get back to some sort of normality we want to protect health. we want to get so they can all make situations stabilize the income thing and again. but we also want to impact on

transmission, and those things are not necessarily the same as the chief, unheard of unity. so i agree with my colleagues, what we need to do is probably change what we're aiming for. i think we are adding a thought to normality and in order to achieve that, we certainly need to get a vaccine coverage well, lives up much, much higher. and you mentioned, well counsel zation in the d g of the work. how go to my station if that's a goal for a 70 percent vaccination coverage by the middle of 2022. so that's the kind of thing that we, we probably need to be discussing. and what would that mean in terms of getting countries and communities back to us before we move on, i mean that goal for the continent of africa, where i believe just 1.5 percent of the 1000000000 people on the continent has actually been vaccinated is that even a realistic goal?

well, the one good thing is that a lot of the countries in our region are looking towards the kodak facility, which is going to be provided with vaccines and also the african union and the back things on now starting to become available that we very much hoping that in the next 3 months that we're going to see a much larger flow back into the country. the, the, the big question for many countries however, is that we're trying to introduce the brand new backs in with a new target with not sure which is what we normally do into very weak health services. so the question is, will we be able to absorb back and distribute them and get them to the, the population most at risk and then out to the board of population going to be a very big challenge. and the 3rd thing is that we have to sustain your 70 percent from under 2 percent, which is where we off is that huge chunk. and that will require

a commitment not only from back the manufacturer to all the time limited income countries, including our region, but also to support the purchasing of these back the support services so that we can roll about otherwise, we're not going to manage that. and if we don't manage them, we won't be able to, we have a whole continent where we're not able to get back to mission coverage up really significantly. we are not going to be able to break the back of them. ok. and also the others come back to you. how is it that we've gotten to this point now where we're looking to have protection rather than heard? immunity is a matter of the vaccination rollout. just being too slow. the delta vary and coming in. what are, what are the factors that you see that have gotten us to this point? there are several factors and some of them were touched on by my colleagues on this, on this program is i think it's, it's the nature of the infection itself. because what has been a charge of axioms,

we have our hands, and i think we, what we know is that the vaccines don't provide for immunity, meaning protect people, the recipient of the vaccine from giving infected. we know that vaccines are really good at preventing illness and prevented visions and best from 19. so because of the fact that they don't provide full in unity, meaning protection against infection, it makes it very hard to, to aim for. achieving heard in unity. so i think it is, it's an appreciation and much more realistic, realistic appreciation of the nature of the virus itself and it's transmission. it's high realty, very contagious, as well as the challenge with the evolution of new and i want and the nature of the vaccines we have. all of these aren't together. give us pause in terms of aiming for heard in unity. i think what we need to focus on is, as,

as helen mentioned as well, is we need to think about how can we use the vaccines we have at hand to be able to protect as many of our population of the global population as, as possible from the severe consequences that can happen from over 90. and that means we have to scale up vast vaccine availability and distribution and deployment to places around the world where this hasn't happened thus far. there's now a huge disparity that's become very evident where with richer countries, wealthier countries having access to back scenes while other countries on the world are still at the one or 2 percent coverage with the scenes or just this is just a tenable situation and it is so i always say if there's covert anywhere, there's cobra everywhere. so we have to think and moving forward. how do we protect the global community from the dire consequences of covered 90 to the use of our

vaccine? less than a goals if we're not looking to would heard immunity, we're not looking toward elimination either. are we going to start to see people who are vaccinated getting sicker with the same virus or with new new mutations of this virus? i think the extension of time is that the answer is no. right now, is that those of invention i said, is that they can get actually very mild infection. and i think it's not just us infection, but the ability to transmit. because these people may be also ice and magical, had very mild symptoms, which is going to mean that the chain of transmission is there's not going to be broken. but as the 2 previous speakers have already mentioned, in the main functional fascination is actually decrease the mortality and morbidity . and i think all the days which has come in pain been coming across from all parts . well, is that the fuse and the incentive in the air is a hospital?

is that the thing is the unvaccinated for developing the sphere disease? now we're getting every now and then, you know, some of the very small number of cases of margaret disease and the facts. nice. but the main thing on the vaccination is to decrease mortality and morbidity as to reduce the strain on the health care. i guess i just wanted to know that it was my question. i mean the science, what was the very clear getting vaccinated? you're much the font key to get very on. well you're, you're, you're less likely to pass the virus own even. but my question is, if the virus is still going around in the community, even with the vaccinated people, all we going to seeing you mutations the, the office. fortunately, yes, because the, because these are the facts, these are the bosses. the more you get a boss replicating, the greater the chance of mutations can be occurring is just by the sheer numbers.

so if you can actually get those numbers down, all the number of people being infected or the number of severe cases which are producing more than you can be reducing that chance, but he's ex mutations be coming in. so that's why we've been saying where there's been high rates of it in infection, that's what the mutations have been arising. so, and that's sort of the, the negative feedback is that what you don't want to have is that if you can keep those mutations kind down, then that means that you don't need to come up every year with that with a new vaccine. so people break down that cycle of more vos being produced, and that's where it's going to be occurring in the reasons where this low faxing coverage in, in africa and also in, in parts of asia. so i think the main emphasis on this is why i feel quite strongly backed, it is, is instead of that boosted those would be to actually have the vaccines where there is a more chance of people getting the primary disease. and so you can actually decrease

that, that potential for more mutations come about. we'll get to booster shots at the moment, but 1st i want to come back to you, helen reads, should we be investing more in therapies for people who are sick? you know, we have time, a flu, if you've got the flu. what about people who get covert but who are vaccinated and might just get it in a mild way i get somewhat on well, is there enough invest in? is there enough investment in your opinion in that side? no, i don't think there is. and i think that's an excellent point. i mean, one of the reasons that people individually, very frightened, as far as community had to go into locked down repeatedly because we don't have good treatment. we don't have good treatment. yes. we have some treatments, but then limited for people who are there and, and we don't have good treatment that don't people who got moderate disease or disease progressing to that serious and part. and when we got good vaccines. but we

could also do with some other interventions in addition to the mosse of the social distance thing and the ventilation that we are recommending to assist in, in preventing infection. we haven't invested, i believe, nearly enough in those in those other therapy. the other problem is that some of the things that have looked very promising and indeed some of the things that are being evaluated, mouthful and treatment of hospitalized patients are extremely expensive. and so once again, i guessing a secondary effect of access to therapy for rich countries, which simply would not be feasible to be either manufactured or introduced interest or limited setting. so in addition to investing much more in therapy, we also need to say to think about what's going to be appropriate therapy to administer and to uphold in their thoughts limited. ms was coming back to booster

shots. israel is, is offering booster shots, the u. k. is planning to for the vulnerable to roll it out alongside the flu, to add without talking about vaccine equality globally, which is a whole other issue in which we've, we've dedicated a few programs to. but from, from a science point of view, what difference will boosters make to transmission to we? do we have any data? i think we have some data that do support that for specific population, specific groups of individual it boosted those may be maybe a value. we don't have data that support the booster for the general population. so for example, there are some data that show that for some immunocompromised individual individuals, these people will do weekends, immune system, for example, people to receive organ transplants or people on him with guy allison. so there are some data that tell us that in those individuals can be some gains in terms of

a boost of their antibodies that the protective antibodies after receiving a 3rd don't actually shooting another those off the chain that seen that before. so that's, this is a subset of the population, and i think that may be that the focus moving forward when you're discussing booster dosing is to really try to think about where we have the data and where the focus should be. rather than thinking broadly of a need for boost of dollars for the general population overall. and this is big and then that just be some issues of equity and access globally. but as you said, also based on the find, find difficulties are that we haven't had mr. nicole's. 8 if we're not talking, if we, if we're giving up the idea of her immunity and instead looking towards her protection, what does this mean for countries like new zealand that have basically attained elimination?

they're going to open up new deal. it is going to open up to vaccinated travelers from low risk countries next year. but based on this assumption that we're only going for heard protection is a global community, a country like that is going to have to accept that the virus is going to come in. and it's going to infect the population. speaking as a new zone vested interest in that, but i think the reality is that what, what works, why? well for one country will not work with another. and i think if you look at the cross walk for stress, stress seem to be doing very well and then you just needed that one case to be brought into new south wales. and now you've got a 3000 people. so, so even and the, the interest relation is that wake have a low, well, with the cobra last year is that the enthusiasm for vaccination is not as high. so, and that's a vaccination rate is higher in reasons in countries which is suffered and which

had may drive rates. so i think the whole problem is that we found this in many parts of the asia. we did very well rest of the well in the 1st part of last year. and so the enthusiasm for taking the vaccine was not as high as possible. and that's a really big problem, is that we're still getting that stuff and 2530 percent, no matter what a government can do, the advertising, which is saying, basically we don't want the vaccination. so i think that's going to be the, the challenge for new zealand. and for those of us how you sort of convinced that susceptible population lives are the ones you just see that one case and that in that 2530 percent. and also the what we'll spend talks about is off the 70 percent . i think we're ignoring the fact that the pediatric population, which is the one which is which if you've got countries with 1520 percent of a p dash population about the vaccination strategies for them. because right now

what we're seeing is that where the boss is spreading, and this is the data coming out from the southern hemisphere is in the pediatric and the young adult population. that's a group which has not been that would be vaccination, then they're spreading it to the parents and then to the grandparents and it goes for that school. it was what happens in influenza. it's a, it's that paediatrics relation which, which i think can be very challenging to get those numbers up to, for sufficient protection. i think very round the earlier point. it's a very different ball game for those countries that don't have that experience of you know, everyone knows somebody who's had co vedo has had close it themselves or seen their local hospital. overwhelmed very different countries that haven't had that i don't come back to you on that front. helen rees. what is the best incentive for people to get vaccination from a public policy point of view? what do we know works to get people out and to get those jobs?

what don't think there are several things. one is that, and i think everyone's familiar with the, the anti backs expression. now that's the minority minority and those people exist full of it and they will exist after this. they don't like vaccine and how many be given for that. but the majority of the sort of such that we just mentioned are people who are never or people who don't see themselves at risk. i mean, many young people in the trenches don't necessarily see themselves at risk and that, that well if i get it on the sick and the body. so why is that group those to many of the reasons nothing like have we develop the vaccine too quickly. and so we have to be able to explain about things like compressing the pipeline for faxing development and monitoring through faxing safety and, and people who want to see the back things rolled out to other people to see how does it go for them before they will they will take it so,

so i think the 1st thing we have to do and you know, you got to be here with you is do a better job from the buyer perspective. and the public health perspective. after waiting those people in that category to have the confidence to come forward. the 2nd thing is that you know, sort of carrots and stick in the beginning to see this country. for example, if you want to do that, because as a, if you're not fascinated, you really will need to have a vax. and if you want to go into restaurants, if you want to go into it. so that sort of, it's the most current time to stick if you'd like. and i think we're going to see more of those kinds of incentives, the incentives and the way also. because if you don't do it, you won't be able to do now. and the 3rd thing under why discussion is whether for some joke, for example, it needs to be compulsory, the same in kenya, discussion about topics we've seen in other countries discussion about health care

. so if you're in a job in the age old age firm environments and i do, you have a responsibility and the government have responsibility show that you know, i think countries around the world are grappling with exactly that. hey, we're going to leave it there for time. thank you very much to all of our guests. wafa father, john nichols and helen rees. and i do for want to, you can see the program again any time by visiting our website to elgin or dot com . and to the end of the discussion, go to l. facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha, inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter. handle is at a inside story for me can vanelle and the whole team here in bo huh. bye bye. for now, the news, news,

news, news, news, jewish passion for elephant conservation colleagues had become friends, but with civil war defending famous now protect themselves, escaping deep into the rain forest back to the western world. for the elephant surviving the poachers is a lifelong challenge. now to them without loss or revel militia, elephant, a witness documentary on out to 0. in the midst of war, a generation grew up and exiled. more than 13000000 syrians, that half the pre war population remained displaced inside and outside the country . and as the conflict enters its 2nd decade, with no political supplement in sight,

there could be further displacement. home for many has been informal camps like this in neighboring countries in lebanon's because the valley life has been one of poverty and uncertainty. theory as economy is collapsing and international aid organizations are warning, it is pushing millions deeper into poverty. many our job listen hungry. the united nation says 60 percent or 12400000 serious. don't have regular access to enough food. despite the battlefield, being largely quiet for a year, agencies say the daily suffering of syrians is worse than it has been at nearly any point throughout the conflict. and the hardship has not stopped a serious border. madagascar, a breathtaking tropical paradise where its former protectors are now wanting to very we follow their journey as they put their lives on the

line and live risking its all medical knowledge of the euro. the. ready again, peter, i'll be here and how you top stories own alger 0. the taliban has made its most significant gains yet in an offensive. it's leaving, cobble, dangerously exposed. it's captured up canister on 2nd largest, that he can to ha, which is the arm groups birthplace. elsewhere in the south telephone fights, as also took control of laska gar charlotte bellis reports from cobble. just in the last few hours, the taliban say that they have claimed all the alarm, which is the provincial capital of logo, which is just.