industry has never truly recovered since then. today, garza is home to a little more than 2000000 people, but only those with permits are allowed to travel beyond its borders. inside there are limited options for cultural experiences. so families try to enjoy stones at home. but the cinema boss offers a welcome change i sent in my head to the cinema is really nice. i wish we had a big cinema like this one. so we could always go to it because we don't have access to things like this. it's the 1st time i've watched a movie in a cinema like this, a movie about love and caring about yourself. a message designed to reach everyone along the gaza strip, chill and wolf, all to 0. ah, your children, they really nice the whole rather the reminder of our top stories you in human rights, she's michelle bachelor, says she's received credible reports of abuse is against civilians in areas under taliban control. but also in

a special session of the human rights council. she spoke about allegations of executions, restrictions on women and repression of protests. we have also received credible reports of seated violation of international humanitarian law and human rights abuses. taking place in many areas under effective taliban control. they include among others, summary executions of civilians and all the combat. members of the gun national security forces restrictions on the rights of women, including the right to move around freely and girls. right to attend school. i was on the stands diverse, ethnic and religious minorities are also at risk of violence and refreshments will cobble the whole remains. chaotic, reportedly 14000 people waiting. there was at least 10000 more outside hoping to get in before the deadline to pull out western troops ends. next tuesday. charles stratford has more from the capital, its very tense around the airport. we have seen sporadic violence over the last few

days. the most recent of which monday night we had a member of the afghan security policy. she was killed by on identified gunman. just how the taliban will respond to any kind of extended deadline remains to be c . but one thing is very much for sure. that when these extensions were made before the taliban would in control of cobble, they say that people can leave this country legitimately on commercial flights. if they have the right visas and the right paperwork. but of course nobody knows when exactly those commercial flights will resume. yes, present, joe biden is considering extending a deadline to pull forces on top of going to stop. the telephone says they will be consequences if the august 31st state is broken. there's the headlines inside stories next here on algebra to stay with us. news.

news. news news. the german chancellor has warranted russia not to use a new pipeline as a potential weapon. no stream to is near completion. it will bring more gas from russia to germany. will this give moscow too much power over europe and its future? this is inside. ah, ah hello and welcome to the program. i'm has, i'm seeking the politics of energy all back under the spotlight in europe. a new natural gas pipeline that would double the supply. russia sends to germany is

nearly complete. but the nor stream to pipeline avoid ukraine, which is where a large portion of rustling, natural gas passes through before making its way to europe. this means the ukrainian government could lose a huge portion of the income and earns through transit fees. united states in some u member states are also concerned. they say further reliance on russia for europe's energy needs could be risky. but germany's outgoing chance langler marco says there will be rules in place to protect ukraine security. he's a follow on. we have made it clear that we will seek further sanctions within the european framework if the suspicion that the pipeline is being used as a weapon is confirmed. and we have made it clear that we as well as graph walter see, will be our special envoy. are starting negotiations about the possibility of extending the contract from 2024th. so ukraine can have security on this level as well. oh

sure, let me check said i still believe that this is a witness to believe that it's possible to ignore that. the threats not only for ukraine, but also for europe. i don't think it's possible to ignore that. it's a weapon. ukraine will not talk about nordstrom to from the economic point of view . you can see controls gas prices in europe now, and how they are rising. must be on your way. we are willing to continue transiting gas through ukraine even after 2024. but we must understand what timeframe and, and what quantities. for this we must receive an answer from our european partners . how long are they willing to continue buying from us? this is an obvious thing. we can't sign a transit contract if we don't have a contract for delivery to our customers in europe. you're taking in mind the green agenda that is already being realized in europe. we are asking ourselves, will our gas even be bought all brain, i guess in a moment. the 1st let's take a closer look at this project. the nord stream to pipeline runs under the baltic sea alongside and already existing pipeline completed in 2011. both pipelines allow

russia to avoid ukraine when supplying gas to europe. the pipeline is expected to transport nearly 55000000000 cubic meters of natural gas every year. doubling rushes current supply to germany. european union already imports about 40 percent of all its natural gas from russia. that's why they are growing fears that the new pipeline could increase the ease dependence on russia. the. so let's bring in our guess now in moscow we have a puzzle fell going. how are he is a russian foreign policy analyst than columnist at nevada. is yet up in sydney, british columbia. we have michael berserk, you author and global affairs analyst. he's also the former spokesman for the organization, for security and cooperation in europe, and in berlin, 20 k godaddy, a senior fellow at the international institute for strategic studies. good to have

you with a gentleman. don't a k? if i could start with you? ukraine fears for its security on the basis that this gas pipeline will tighten moscow's grip over over the regions, energy supply and strength, and its its influence. all those fee is well founded. yes, i think the stairs are well found it because moscow has a long tradition of using energy and especially gas supplies as a political or electrical tool. we have seen the same previous case concerning ukraine, but not only ukraine. most of the central european or eastern european countries have faced rational policies regarding the energy supply. so this is a matter of a few politics, most of europe, ian countries and including the european union,

which is also important. brussels also considered that the new pipeline northeastern, too, is a political tool in the hands of russia. and basically on the germany, germany, social position is that these political pressures can be avoided. but most of the countries, including those who are in the neighborhood, i'm in poland. all states can be countries and the european union, as i said, and even trends. usually, france is not very aggressively russian, but regarding this project particular project there, most of the countries are against it and considered ethics. it will increase rushes, a geopolitical role in the european continent. and i'm not talking about the u. s. maybe we'll come later to when we'll discuss the american position on this issue. sure, we will. we will get to that at some point,

michael. but sir q is europe risking, becoming too dependent on russian gas? oh, absolutely. and, you know, the outlines of the so called agreement is very vague. what does actually constant to constitute an energy weapon and when are sanctions triggered? so for example, if russia does abruptly res, gas prices to europe or constrict supply, does that constitute using the pipeline as an energy weapon? i think there's ukraine has very, is very, very right right now to feel very kind of threatened and vulnerable because there is no real consensus on how russia, how he's, how these sections executed can be triggered. and i think it's really incumbent upon people like cancer merkel before she leaves office to tighten this agreement up. we've, as the previous guest indicated that russia has a long record in terms of you know, a good question in terms of probing weaknesses in terms of finding out how it can

leverage its geopolitical advantage and energy to, to harm others. and to gain a tone object and so it doesn't look good on all sides. i think come quickly, i think that ukraine feels very again, very vulnerable and very alone right now because it feels it doesn't have strong backing from europe any longer. let's get to puzzles, how can, how is take on a lot of c as being expressed here, about this perceived over dependence on, on, on russian energy and russia, using that as a weapon. what do you say to them? well, your opinion be very much dependence is increasingly dependent on russia. natural gas. right now we are kind of rush of present before even without the nor stream to going operation hours. the fraction your muscle say russia right now is cut of the supply of physical supply of gas to

a europe and to cover its contract obligations is extracting gas from underground reserve live in europe. and so that means that the formula right and formal terms rushing, complying with its contrast down contract, got dramas. but in terms that means that so when summers in the winter is coming, and the european gas reserves opposite their use as a buffer during the cold winter are right now very much the week. it's in times where you can physically won't be impossible, won't be possible to fill them up before winter comes. and so those are miss out the spot price of gas in europe. that's skyrocketed almost to the levels of east asia. and europe is not getting enough liquefied gas on

tankers, because most of it is going to the stage where there's the so the asian premium on price. so russia is flexing your muscles and showing that they can regulate the price of gas. the price of the supply of gas in europe, though it has just over a 3rd of the supply is ration still. anyway. so then with the new pipelines, russia will have more flexibility in doing that. tony cable, where does what's at stake here for, for the united states and their position on all of this the united states were very critical about this project from them, from the very beginning. even if the position of the previous american president, donald trump was not always consistent, he, he was criticizing the project,

but at the same time he tried it. he tried to veto the congress resolution to augment pressure on the, on the project. the americans were against the nurse into also because at least for the president trump, it was a logical to for, for germany and for you to claim at the same time that the russia was threatening them militarily. well, basically, and at the same time providing money for gas form, which as we know is the, is, is a main resource provider for the russian russian budget. and maybe the case, a specific case of the president trump. it was also to, to help american companies that are exporting liquified guess to they they are expectations to the, to europe. but the things have changed. we saw the last summer,

the meetings between the, the president biden and chancellor miracle and later meeting by then joe biden, with the letting me put in in geneva. and the americans decided to wave the most of sanctions and punitive measures that united states of adopted against the companies were involved in the construction of northridge to and the americans justify the change by the fact that the united a wants want a better relations with, with europeans and the major player in europe is germany. and at the same time, they tried to manage and to explain this decision thing that

together germany and the united states will will increase, i sure will establish sanctions if russia uses north stream as a job political tool. as my colleague from canada said, this is something very difficult to assess because of course, russia is the champion of hybrid measures and who will determine when the political aspect intervenes in this. and this issue will, unless russia invites directly with their tanks or military forces you great in order for me to be in countries there, it could be always be at the base about, is it political that your political or not? so this is something that doesn't really give the credit to the both had so for government and they, when they claim that russia will pay the price. all right? if they use it, you know, political, let's get, let's get pebbles, reaction to,

to some of that. and what, what does it stay here? essentially, for russia beyond the, the, the economic benefits, what should be understood? the more stream to is only one pipeline in the network of pipeline by russian. it's, there's the stream one, the 1st pipeline which is fully operational for a long time. and then there's the pipeline bill to turkey and from turkey into the balkans. the south kind of route now it's called the turkish root. so this is the entire network rush invested a lot of money. i mean, not only the pipelines themselves under water, but also the infrastructure to bring the gas from the area to the back seat of the baltic sea and then send it to europe at the north and through the south. and this is the mattress and last night most likely would hope that there would be

foreign finances involved. but because of sanctions, they were not. so russia paid a gas from paid out of his own pocket to build it. and they put the investment on placed on paper will never be returned because it's going to be gas from pipes with gas, from gas, and assigned them. so they're kind of paying the transit fee themselves. and as a result, they're paying very well fees to say that this is much more rig economy, but the thing is that the answer specially they'll never return the investment. so this is of course, the combination of political and commercial interest selected often happens in today's russia. russia has both wants to be in some control of the european market are pricing there another and supplies. but of course, also gas from its time to the european market,

the gas from does not really produce on that song much at all liquefied. yeah, that means it can send it to other places, pipelines and they're tied. you are. so europe is tied to russia, russia by europe, basically before moscow. that's not that bad because there's this. so the idea that russia should build bridges with europe try and push the american now, do something that trump last monday to do and establish time with germany and primarily, but with all the other european countries. that's kind of very close partnership. that's not very working out, but then the commercial part of it. and then of course, the problem of ukraine, which right now finds itself in a position where moscow at will if it wishes to continue to supplied gas to europe with contract obligations, but not sending much or at all to ukraine. that's for

sure. let's, let's talk a little bit more about ukraine's options here, michael. but if ukraine continues to feel that europe in the united states are not looking out for them on this issue, does that risk join them closer to china's or bit as has been suggested by some? yeah, absolutely. i think the feeling in ukraine is i've recently returned from there is that it's been thrown under the bus. the bought it administration, which by the way, has very few foreign policy wins, has chosen to improve relations with germany. it has chosen to do some kind of research with relations with russia and in return. and as i said earlier, creating feels very vulnerable. it doesn't have many options, but yes, one of them is actually improving relations with china. in fact, president the long sky recently had 1st a conversation what she's paying over the telephone. and they, they was a very good call from both sides. and the landscape said that it pretty much to the

fact that ukraine has no better friend than china right now. at least an economic partner, and i think this was done in part to kind of put pressure on washington to look again at relations with ukraine and to help it more. but the other thing i have to say is that with the debacle in couple and with the united states now the scene is not a credible partner to guarantee security. whether you're taiwan or ukraine, or whoever is that, you know, a lot of these countries are a real value to a degree, evaluating those security guarantees and looking for other partnerships. and, you know, ukraine might even look, be looking, for example, even more to the gulf countries to see what kind of new ties can be formed there. if i could say one other thing here, and this goes more to the kind of technicalities of the pipelines that, that the other problem ukraine has. and it's not talked about very much at the moment, is with this realignment of gas transit. i gas pressure in ukraine has the potential

to fall very, very much. so what that means, practically, during the winter time outlying or bloss through outlying villages may not get the required gas that it needs because it's really upset. it has the potential to upset the whole infrastructure. there is so a lot of different vulnerabilities that ukraine feels right now. so we shouldn't be surprised that looking elsewhere for better partnerships. tony. okay, what's your view on that? and then there's this idea that america's credibility is taking a real hit in recent days. you know, because, you know, michael mentioned afghanistan and their position with, with, with this now, would that would that force your p in partners to, to kind of look elsewhere to shore up their own alliances. yes, unfortunately. busy the u. s. role and even credibility is suffering already for several years. it has started earlier than just

a few weeks or few days ago. we also remember the 1st attempt to reset between the american aah and ministration obama administration and put in russia just after the war in georgia. and they were numerous attempts for normalization of relations between the us and russia always coming from from the americans. we also remember the disastrous experience in syria, where the americans abandoned their own red lines and their lot russia to intervene on the sides of the president bashar alas, and all the tragic consequences that that happens there. so many eastern europeans, especially are very vulnerable because of their geographical proximity with russia

are extremely worried. and to come back to the options that ukraine has. why would that also one another option that is now improving and getting closer relations with turkey, which is, and the cooperation between the ukraine and turkey around the black sea, including corporation and military filled and military industry. between these 2 countries. don't forget that turkey was quite critical about the crime is annexation by russia. because grey me are primarily local populate. i'll talk to network relation is turkey speaking population. so there are these, these douglas are looking for options. somehow increase, trying to negotiate a better options about needs memberships in terms of work with,

with germany. again, germany and france where the main countries a blocking ukraine, enjoyed succession to native from 2008. so that ukrainian tried to, to, to negotiate these, not 3 to issue with the repro possible repertoire with nature. but i don't see any serious changes in this in this issue. so yeah, of course this country increasingly they understand that they have to rely on their own resources and to be more multi vector row and to see partners everywhere and also to improve relations between them. between this is been in countries with paul and with baltic states, etc, etc. probably how can, how i want to ask you about the another announcement that was made in these meetings and that was anglo merkel, promising to provide more than

a $1000000000.00 to help expand ukraine's renewable energy sector. how much might that soften the blow for ukraine if it was to lose those transit fees from russia and in 3 years time? well, to some extent, most likely, yes. but there's also other problems, not just simply money. there's not just the fees, there's the gas that goes through ukraine, basically also your brain by as part of that gas back legally speaking by from poland or like yeah, but physically the grass is just simply taken from the fact that as it goes through your grade, and if it's not functioning, the gas is not coming out. where will you create a gift for gas with this right now? buying in the west. if there's the technicalities there that could to have very disastrous effect,

said already that the oppression the gas entire system of ukraine may begin to fall . and that would be catastrophic getting gas from the west. they have to reverse this. i mean there's, there's so many problems there. just a dollars doing through green energy won't good, but it won't solve those problems. i'm afraid. ok, i just want to put the what's probably going to be the final question in a minute or so that we've got left to to, to michael. how do you see this playing out? if i mean merkel has said that they could, they could apply more sanctions on russia if it doesn't play ball. but russia is already been sanctioned, almost to the limit already. so i mean, how much, how much more sort of 5, how do they have really exactly, how much more pain can you inflict on russia which is already sanctioned to the health. as you already pointed out, i think the only thing the way to really has the only leverage is the nuclear option,

which i call it. and that is to at least temporarily remove russia from the international financial system. the payment system would really get them where it hurts. i can tell you that again, just coming from the region, put 10 is making very threatening signals. he did a long term depth space recently claiming that ukrainians and russians are all the same people. to me, this is code for we have more ambitions for ukraine, get ready for it, get more for, get ready for more aggression and quickly don't forget that they did leave a lot of military hardware, a lot of manpower close by when they did the recent military exercises so again, plenty, plenty, plenty of reason for your brain to feel very vulnerable right now. all right, we're going to leave it there. thank you. to all 3 of you pebble sell going, how michael, marcia q and tony k go dad, say thanks so much for being on inside story and thank you. as always for watching, remember you can see this program again any time by visiting our website. i just need to talk com and for further discussion,

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toxic chemicals to bring you reward winning documentaries and live on air and online. ah . hello. i had them speaker in the how the top stories on i just hear you and human rights chief michelle bachelor says she's received credible reports of abuses against civilians in areas on the title bar control addressing a special session the human rights council. she spoke about allegations of executions, restrictions on women and repression of protests. we have also received credible reports or seated violation of international humanitarian law and human rights abuses.