thing outside the gate and that desperately trying to get them through and put them on the last evacuation flights and their discussion with the taliban. the prime and the french president also said that there are several 100 africans that he wants to evacuate from the country. but it may be seen whether or not he'll be successful in that. but yes, the threat of attack, which we've now seen take place did bring forward evacuation flights for a lot of those countries that you mentioned, canada, germany, poland, hungary, on the netherlands and the dutch government, as they were pulling earlier today on, says they admitted that it will be leaving some ask and eligible eligible for relocation behind, but there was nothing they could do. the british prime minister is under pressure and he has said, this is not going to be the last the last date beyond august 31st. he said, we hope to continue to say you can leave and to the taliban if you want funds and diplomatic relations than safe passage is a key condition. but right now,

all of the focus will be on getting out those law people and the, the rapidly changing situation around that. charlie, we're now hearing that the u. k is saying it's issued and nurses to airlines to avoid africa as based under 25000 fees. after that attack a couple level, it's clearly a very fluid security situation and that whole area. what are you hearing from other europe pin leaders on the continent in terms of the aftermath of what we've seen today and couple well we, the, for the germans. the german meeting has been delayed, so we're still waiting for lines out of germany on what, what that plan is that last evacuation flights have taken place. i can tell you over that to see 17 a's and there's a nato strategic capability across have left the poured off the explosion. these are very larger across that of a capacity of 77000 kilograms. now we don't know if they were carrying personnel.

we didn't know if the civilians or maybe even just troops and equipment, but they're all still flights, taking off from the airport. and those were on the nato bonus. so that could be a mixture of people on board. but we're still waiting for germany to make an announcement. and as i said, once the prime minister comes out of that cobar meeting, we'll expect some lines from him on what the next step. so charlie angela there with all the nations reaction both from the u. k. and europe for thanks, charlie. well, let's remind you of where we're at. the pentagon spokesman from the u. s. has tweeted, we can confirm that the explosion of abby gates was the result of a complex attack that resulted in, in a number of us and civilian casualties. we can also confirm at least one other explosion at or near the baron hotel. a short distance from abbey gate will continue to update. well, meanwhile, we've also had reaction. as charlie was alluding to this to that attack from nato secretary general young stultz and back, he's also tweeted and he said,

i strongly condemn the heretic. terrorist attack outside couple airport. my thoughts with all of those affected and their loved ones. priority remains to evacuate as many people to safety as quickly as possible. well, we've also had now from former afghan chief executive abdul. abdur le, he's issued a statement saying i strongly condemn the terrorist attack couple airport which killed and wounded a large number of civilians. my thoughts and prayers with the victims and their families at this difficult time. well, let's now bringing david there roche. he is a professor at the national defense university here in castle, and is also a former pentagon director of arabian peninsula says he joins us now from the professor. thank you for joining us again. this our, as ruth, thank you, serves in afghanistan yourself, and you were describing just how soft the target this area around the airport is. can you talk us through how something like this might have been carried out given the serious security concerns that something would take place?

yeah. so, so the, the area itself is not a soft target. it's fairly well defended by in 2002. i used to go there that was the base to buy cigars and things every day. but the problem is you're trying to process civilians. so what you have is an interaction between desperate civilians who are in large numbers, who, you know, fear that if they stand behind another person, they might be left behind and soldiers and up till now you know, over time people get accustomed to each other. you know, the, the people trying to leave afghanistan and the soldiers come to an agreement, but the fact that you had a suicide bombing looks like a suicide farming. and a complex attack means that the soldiers now will be insisting upon a degree of standoff. that makes it almost impossible to process these, these civilians in an orderly fashion and the civilians of course, will grow increasingly desperate. so you have to dynamics that play at the level of

the individual soldier and the individual ask in which unfortunately will undermine efficiency. and in this vacuum mission, you mentioned the phrase that complex attack. and that's what we're also hearing that line from the pentagon. can you talk us through what that means? does that also mean that we could be potentially i will show, should we be expecting other attacks? yeah, well 1st off, you should be expecting other attacks. there are no shortage of people who regard the presence of outsiders in afghanistan as a religious duty to oppose. i mean, we're dealing with people who, you know, have a right of motivations. but none of them are things that we in the west are comfortable dealing with. i mean, there's a degree of fanaticism among some of the people we're facing with. so a complex attack generally refers to an explosion followed up by shooting or the ideas that the explosion either creates a panic. and then once people move away from the explosion in the panic,

you shoot them or the explosion creates a breach in the security forces. so say you have an explosion at the gate itself. you kill the us soldiers who are guarding the gate and then you attack the gate itself. we don't know if that was happening. this was probably from press reports that appears to be that what you had was an explosion of that. some people shooting at people as they scattered, not a sustained attack. but the problem with a complex attack is it increases the requirements for soldiers to distance themselves from the very refugees they're trying to process for asylum. sure, well, given the complexity of the situation and the pension that we're seeing on the ground and couple, i imagine they have a lodge to do list at the pentagon, you were a senior official yourself at the pentagon. can you talk us through what it's possibly like there right now, what their priorities are as they go forward? a good question. so what i would imagine, and i'm only imagining,

is that they have a number of plans that had already been worked out to greater or lesser degree of detail. and usually that spans the range from immediate withdrawal to expanding the perimeter and taking over control of cobble as a whole. you know, maybe even conducting raids into the periphery of afghanistan's extract individuals, so will be a whole range of options. the, the problem is in order to determine which plan, which military option is most viable. you have to have a really high degree of fidelity, what the situation is on the ground. and right now they're confused reports of who's doing it. how's it going on? how much can we trust the taliban to stand back and let us evacuate people or with the taliban confront us? so right now i think most people are dusting off the plans, looking for flaws in the logic of the plan that aren't dependent upon the situation . but meanwhile, the key element is getting in the information as to what is actually going on. so

they can make a balance judgements. reason judgments on which plan is most bible in which plan meets the intention of the sexual defense and the president. of course, i mean clearly there have been warnings about something like this for days now, and we are now hearing some speculation from officials that this was the work of an iso off shoot potentially i saw ok. and now obviously no, no came of responsibility yet. can you talk us through how real that ice ok, threat is. and is there any way to try to to a layers? well, ice ok is a very real threat. it's not really an offshoot of ice. so it is a subordinate and it takes orders from i, so it's much more centralized organization than for example, the taliban is. so what it is, is it claims to be a province. so we like of the caliphate that isis established. and then later last based out of muso, so. ready isis k has a definitive ideology. it has

a presence, the case stands for chorus on, which is an isis geography that's afghans to pakistan, india. it has carried out attacks in all 3 of those. ready states there is however, a conflict with the taliban. they have a different interpretation of the requirements of islam, both sides, both the taliban and isis k view each other a territory. so isis k is motivated to carry out attacks on western forces. it's also motivated to discredit the taliban efforts to say we've established government, we've established order. there's no need to panic. well, clearly this, this represents a threat to any kind of taliban transition that they want to take place. i'm curious, do you think something like this may change us policy not only necessarily on the evacuation that we may see in the coming days and weeks, but in engagement in the region going forward. i think it is,

i mean one of the key questions for policymakers right now is, 1st off, can we trust the taliban to do what they say we they want to do? they're going to do. and secondly, if they say and want to do what they say they're going to do, can they actually do it? and so the fact that you have this attack in the heart of an area that the taliban claims control over. it causes both of those questions to be reexamined. and if the conclusion is that the taliban neither is lying or that they just have, they lack the ability to carry out their agreements. then that has profound implications for western policy makers would have been saying, because we're getting the line now that the taliban has not only condemned the bombing outside couple of what they're saying that it happens specifically in an area that was controlled by us forces. and we'll see know that there were a number of injuries amongst us troops. is that then a growing security concern for the u. s. as they tries to continue evacuation?

i mean, we're hearing that president biden wants to stick to this august 31st deadline. it is not even realistic now. well, you know, president biden can declare the operation over when it's over and, you know, the scorecard is being kept politically. you know, how many people are left behind? is something that will argue over. but yes, w below michelle deed, the somewhat western savvy spokesman for the taliban, he treated or he spoke to a reporter and said, look, we told the americans just kind of thing as possible. i think they're trying to disavow any responsibility and it goes back to my early remarks. they want to make the case that they are a responsible government who when they say they're going to do something, they're able to do it and they're able to ensure that other people can't derail it . but i'm not sure if that's an accurate state and the facts. i think it's more of him trying to defend the image of the taliban and bolster them as what he sees as a legitimate state. david,

the rest of their profess at the national defense university here in cas on also a former pentagon director of moravian peninsula says thanks so much for joining us again. professor. really great to get your expertise up this time on out of there. well, let's take you to the all the latest reaction we've now had about what's happened in trouble from steph on dejaris. he's the spokesman for the un secretary general, and he said that until you get her as condemns the terrorist attack, which killed a number of civilians and extends his condolences to the families. this incident underscores the volatility of the situation on the ground in afghanistan, but also strengthens our resolve as we continue to deliver urgent assistance across the country in support of the afghan people. well, let's bring in more when the sharra, he's out there as senior political analyst, and he joins us now from paris. my one obviously as we've been hearing huge warnings of a threat of an attack like this. so kelly, no surprise, but what are the implications now for president biden, who was actually issuing some of these warning clearly the next 7 or

8 days are probably going to be the longest 7 or 8 days. ready in the life of the 78 year old job by them. these are difficult times and clearly there's been some serious failures on the part of his intelligence community and on the part of his national security council on the part of his debt. i say strategizing because i've heard over the last our many of our reporters as well as our. ready guests saying accurately, accurately that there have been times, there are no plans in wars, there are no plans of evacuation, even if we call them evacuation plans. independent guns, they have strategy. the difference between strategy and a plan is that a strategy takes place in an environment of conflict with that are facts and dangers and enemies and source of enhance. there are multiple contingencies,

but what you're seeing over the last few weeks over the last few days, and what we continue to see over the last couple of hours, and hence, this might be more of the same moving forward. if that there aren't that kind of a vision, there aren't that kind of a strategy that does take into consideration. the fact that the united states would not simply be able to evacuate, that the united states would not simply be able to withdraw us troops. it's puppet government will hold the fort for 201824 months just because they wish it. this all tend to be wishful thinking. so the question in terms of moving forward is, how ready is the united states to deal with the complications of this conflict, of the inheritance of 20 years of occupation and war chunk, insurgency, hatred, destruction, and so on, so forth. because what we see today is really the combination of all this mess conductive wires, not a plan that requires strategies,

strategizing strategies. and those will have to change with time because as we've seen today, this should have been expected. not because there were reports about it, but when you started jones about withdrawal, you know that someone is going to come after you, whether it is the taliban or, or their friends or their enemies. like i said, not one. you mentioned intelligent failure, but there were warnings about this, including within the us intelligence community. and they spoke very openly about this. what i'm curious about though is what all of this now means for the taliban. i mean, they're clearly wanting to take control and, and have some kind of government in place in cobble, given that we are seeing a deterioration of the security situation that offensively, under their control. what does this mean for the possibilities actually governing to be just to be, to be clear, i did not say there's intelligence failure apart there about the incident today. i was saying there's intelligence here about predicting how long the pocket

government or the government in afghanistan was going to survive after the americans were pleased to be it. they were not certified more than a couple of hours, couple of days and weeks. clearly to see i did not give them by the, in the right intelligence about how much do these people or could these people survive without the american support? i let me just very briefly about this because clearly there were too many lies about how about the preparation of the i've got security forces and the government clearly much of the training of the afghan forces and that tens of billions of dollars went to private contractors and those private contractors are in it for the money, not for the future of gunston and clearly many or most of these fighters the 100300000 gun party. which by the way, i don't know where they are today. where are they? we don't know where the are 300000 again at the gun soldiers were trained using

tens of millions of dollars the or disappeared simply because they were more capable of running traffic lights than running country insurgency. so the idea that there was major intelligence failure about what was this government able to do, and what should the united states do and what contingency plan should it have if it falls immediately after the war there will start. that was a big, big fear that and everything that you're seeing today, and we will be seeing the next few weeks is all about that intelligence fair. now what we're seeing, even more importantly from the white house, if you will, if you and our viewers around the world, listen to the briefings from the state department, the pen to go on the white house and so forth. numbers number numbers, numbers me directly that this many this our, this tuesday that wednesday, so many flights, it's all about numbers figures. what when image today of that one or 2 bombings,

when image of those of guns trying to hold onto those airplanes income with airport is certainly to speak louder than a 1000 finger. that administration can give to us find even the public relation campaign by this administration. they are not up to the level in the sense that and by the way, here is a very important thing that i had heard you asking every other of our reporters and your guests about. and i think it's, it's probably the most fundamental question is with junk job. i didn't change his mind about the august 31st, even though he was right to insist on on august 31st. not because this is sick a deadline because you must have a deadline. one to this is an open one, with all these images coming from afghanistan. this is a disaster, both for the by going to ministration for medical policy for american credibility for american allies. and so on and so forth. and i did a just long time this morning, you know, talking about how this is

a disaster for the u. s. i'm also curious about how much of a disaster this is for the taliban. because by my understanding i f o k, if they are indeed responsible for this and obviously, you know, came of responsibility yet. but if they are indeed, as people are speculating, if they did actually carry this out, this represents essentially an attack on something linked to the taliban by defective from the taliban. so what does this mean from the stability of cobble and that's gonna start going forward. this is going to be a key question, moving forward, but i am not as frantic for frantically worried about it as you know, as the question seems to convey because i think and your guests started with that answer before but did not really get to the heart with the matter is that, look at guns are hand hennessy muslims. isis is a hand, but he must, they are selfish. the selfish or nothing like the palate, one by the bond is

a conservative hand of he group. so in terms of the schools of islam, most afghans follow the isis like it wasn't the iraq, it isn't up against then it's more like, you know, an outside the coming years. so yes, there will present a danger. yes, there were present, but i don't think the taliban is what it that i said will take. i'm going to start from them. there will be a nooses and for the time being by the way. they are not exactly a nuisance. i think that either by sitting back and looking at the u. s. being humiliated by not a child, apparently reported perhaps by isolate. and that is not to the disadvantage, probably barton, because after 20 years of war with the united states, it is now obliged to bite the bullet as well and allow the united states to withdraw at look to get 20 years back. when, when the funded by most a war in 2001 of tolbert and, and from then on, the united states is not exactly allow them to evacuate comfortably out of control . and so what we see today is that taliban forced to accept some american

conditions in order for the united states. and it's worse than allies to deal with the family about moving forward and even to give them some assistance and have to recognize them and so on. so forth, so much of what we see from the taliban today, including its hosted at the condemnation of weisel. yes, it is part of its attempt at maintaining some thread, some contact, some relationship with western capital. even though it doesn't have other options, like beijing, perhaps russia and others, but it does warn the west because it understands that moving forward. it will need international habits when you think of michigan including to fight i. so i think the other more sense to the question, by the way, it's religion without guidance, that is not fine or we don't know. and i think the americans don't have enough intelligence that i have seen about where is the thought about going with that because that's a whole different ball game from the real issue with icing god,

there is much closer to the taliban. there been since 2000 out 2001 and according to some report they continue to be close accord and some de 4th, they still maintain relationship. but one of the conditions of the agreement between the trump administration and the taliban is that the taliban will not allow a guide a safe haven and have against them. will this then be a card that the taliban would you is with the united states moving forward to say ok, we was denied card a base and i'm going to stand if you do this and this and that for us. so again, all of these will be for the taliban. a strategy of dealing with the united states . the question, once again, what is the american strategy of dealing with tyler bond and the guy that i still and the mess after 20 years in a while. and we've talked

a lot about the western reaction to all of this, the u. s. and we've also been hearing reaction, obviously from the u. k. in europe. i wonder what moscow and beijing thinking as they're watching, what happened in cobble today they were obviously great concerns about stability of the region. really strategic areas for both countries. what do they want to see going forward? i think there, i think there's probably dr. co reaction come in or in the minds of the leaders in beijing and moscow. one, they're very happy at the united states as being humiliated by the, by the bon after 20 years. that it's just a 2nd. vietnam, if you will. and china, especially, is already trying to benefit to leverage u. s. failures in, in asia. because china wants to be the number one power issue. it wants to be asian power because best on the way it could become a global power. and hence, the more america loses in iraq, afghanistan and elsewhere, the more big china can benefit. and it already has major relationship with pakistan

and iran, and sort of the offered and mixed with the bond in order to have more relationship with the taliban. as you moving forward, so china will benefit. and yet, and yet i would say that china is worried about the inspiration. that what's happening in the, in i've got to stand under success of that tightly bond might bring out in jersey. yes. she had the groups in asia, including among the chinese muslims and consortia, fort stewart, china is worried about some of its interest in asia, especially in wisdom countries, as well as gets on with some population. once again, on the one hand, it's happy that the u. s. is being humiliated so that it could benefit from that strategic need. but on the other, it might, there might be some worry about the tele bonds inspiration to various. she had the radical groups within asia and within chance or am i on the fi? let you go,

i do want to ask you about the line that we're getting from the taliban. they're being very clear there, condemning these blas, but they're being very, very specific. they're saying that this is happening in an area where us forces are responsible and they're saying that the only reason they even happened was because of the presence of foreign forces on the ground. and we're seeing a number of countries now hold there about creation slides. do you think that this could actually have the opposite effect than people are speculating about, rather than extending the 31st of august deadline that everyone might actually want to get out a little bit sooner. i think the 31st of august is going to be important simply because they must have a deadline and because they agreed to it and to because they want to close this wound and this is a warrant. this is a major public relations disaster as a major humiliation for the united states. and also has been insisting that there must be and i must add something else to that, you know, with tens of thousands of people leaving against that. many of them professionals, the taliban has already been condemning that sort of brain drain out of our guns.

because when you, when you ensure that tens of thousands of professionals, doctors and lawyers and, and engineers and so on, so forth leave, i can stand what, how will the taliban run the capital, let alone run the country. it's going to need a lot of these better crowds, a lot of these administrative people, a lot of these professionals, and so on, so forth. so what is happening day by day, as by then and think and have been saying is that we've moved our 10015000 the thought about what did that, that many of them are leaving. and it's left with not, not that many professionals. and that's all. remember that the funding and make sure from the ready source. did you say we are giving amnesty to all those people who worked in the n d and be in the afghan government under american or, or with american corporation and so on, so forth. because they were very careful and they know, well if they lose all the manpower and they lose all the aid, how the heck are going to do going to be able to run the government around the

country, how they're going to be able to page so that is and to whom. so these are very important questions for that thought by now. what so the thought of, i'm also has an interest for this to finish by august 31st. the bye didn't administration has interest for this to finish august 31st. the european leaders expressed some difference because they are not under the heat as much as the by then administration is no will morrow on given that we've seen that there are divisions within the taliban both in the past and now and the while bank is already cutting funding, they're facing all these challenges. we're seeing appointments also being made to different government departments. is it realistic that the taliban is going to be able to unified self and actually form some kind of government going forward, especially given that, as you suggested, there's not a lot of money. and certainly at the moment, not a lot of legitimacy in the eyes of the international community. where does this go from here? this is the 64000000 dollar question, right?

i think history tells us the history books are full of examples of successful counter insurgency. turning into miserable, incompetent governments. so generally speaking of the, the golden rule is counter search just don't make for good governors. and i think that mine would, might, might end up having to be when one such because you know, fighting and being a demonstrative got to stand that you know, creates a lot of drilling and, but governing is really, is what about running brochures and so on. so forth is very boring and it's very subjective and, and it takes a whole other mindset than that one are fighting on g had and so on, so forth. and clearly, as you stated, that's going need a lot of money because now the country is in bad shape. and because a lot of the, because of the brain drain that we're seeing, how will the about the, the size of,

of thousands upon thousands too. if i've got to stand has anything that it could use that could, could divest its minerals, but that requires investments that are they say that i've got to stand is the radio of lithium. right. and that's hugely important nowadays. and everything that we do from electric cars, batteries, to our i phone, batteries and software. it is crucial. it's as it's more important than the oil and gas. sun has perhaps 2 trillion dollars of such minerals, but they don't need investments. they don't need companies coming in and they got each stability big. i need money, they need to be long term planning. does that does, but that bond is the only one able to have that you know, the dentist on moving forward. i doubt it. certainly not without the help of facts then, and he won investments from china, certainly green light from the united states, assistance from europe and so so forth. but all of that means a change of attitude,

not change of words. change your attitude on the part of the valley is the pallet bond where the 22, probably not because as you stayed, even with the taliban, it's so spit on different functions. and apparently, the more the panic rule is, seems to be the one coming up on top, which is the more radical group with them to find one that'll be a very interesting few weeks or days and weeks ahead. indeed, while i'm sure that out there a senior political analyst, thanks for joining us again and sharing your expertise. me hello there after just joining us, i'm this darcy. okay, and we're live from durham as we continue coverage of breaking news from afghanistan, it is currently 9 30 pm in cobble, and at least 13 people have been killed, several injured and to bloss outside couple airport. several european countries and

kind of stopped there about creation valley because of the security concerns in afghanistan. ah.