paper all the while he's trying to reuse would others, the chopping down trees all over the forest? it's perhaps the biggest threat for the fire flies logging which squeezes the living space. the now every june to august, the visual symphony continues. the challenge for the future is to keep the lights from going out. john holman out, is it a plus gala mix code? ah, this is al jazeera and these, all the headlines. the us evacuation mission from campbell is in its final phase ahead of the deadline. on tuesday, the taliban has taken over parts of the airport and says it's ready for swift hand over the u. s. is warning another attack on campbell air force is highly likely. on thursday 2, suicide bombs killed more than 180 people. i saw k claimed responsibility for the attack. charlotte palace reports now from campbell. there are

a few of flights coming oh, going from cobble airport this morning. at least on radar. there's not even a single us plane on the ground to cobble airport and they're having fun in the air than they were even yesterday. or other allies have stopped for this year for the plains. they left the last one list last night in the near evacuation mission in the military prisons in afghanistan for the last 20 years. as far as in kabul, people trying to evacuate, they are still let him thing it. i can tell you even this morning when i arrive to work, the one hundreds of people in their narrow workplace getting on buses, which has been the strategy lately, is to try to put people on buses, prevent them, and try to streamline them through the airport for that they're not lingering outside too long, and it's in coordination with the telephone. hurricane ida is ours. away from making landfall on the u. s. gulf coast force in tens of thousands of people to

flee their homes is expected to hit near new orleans late on sunday. the category for storm is forecast to be the worse to strike, louisiana, since 1850 states has declared an emergency. you haven't seen the rebels of attack, the country's largest airbase in the sites with drones, missiles and these 15 soldiers were killed. it's on its military base in lunch, providence, australia supporting more than 1300 failure corona, virus infections, and new records. since the pandemic began, there's no sign yet that the break started in mid june is slowing. you zealand is current of our site break is continuing to grow with another $83.00 new cases reported on sunday. and number of infections, nice dance at 511, with 2 people in critical condition that you up to date to stay with us. since i story is next news, news, news,

news, the band, the more embraced and the question is, social media faces over how to treat the parlor bar. how is the group that's now in control of afghanistan promoting its message online? how should tech john handle the content this is inside stored? ah, ah. hello, welcome to the program. i'm hasn't seen the taliban says it's changed and it's promised respect for women's rights protection for the afghan people and peaceful international relations. one powerful tool it is increasingly turning to, to get that message across is social media. platforms own is now face

a challenge in deciding how to deal with the group as it prepares to form afghan astounds new government. while some platforms have banned taller bon accounts, others are still making up their minds. phil of l has more for presidents to pop stars to princes. social media is the mouthpiece of choice. now the taliban once in to the group has changed a whole lot. 20 years ago, they'd been the internet. now, you can't get them off it. they have been embracing social media to an extraordinary degree. in kabul, the digital revolution becoming clear. selfies with fighters taliban wearing smart watches as they try to project a more modern approach. or we may have the same rights that going to be working shoulder to shoulder with us. and a country that has changed so much. what is the payoff strategy here? like, what is it the taliban is trying to achieve? how are they doing it? have they thought it out? you think it's very sophisticated,

they are trying to message internally and externally they have been apparently lying in wait, ready to do this? there have been accounts that were on sites where they are supposed to be banned, that have sprung up immediately. conundrum here is pretty clear, allow the taliban on social media, but then give them a platform, give them the gentleman, say, or remove them, but then you're effectively banning an entire government. this is a real headache for social media companies. the taliban is officially been banned from facebook for years designated a dangerous organisation, tick tock to it says it considers the group a quote, terrorist organization and youtube because it's on the us. sanctions list messaging apps like whatsapp signal and telegram a private and encrypted that makes them more complicated. switzer meanwhile, well the taliban spokesman a pay is to be on there. for now. he's got 300000 followers, although no verified. blue. take a speaking of twitter that brings us to this place,

the us capital. remember what happened here? back in january, the man, some accused of inciting. this was kicked off twitter and facebook leading to questions and conversations about freedom of speech. and now we find ourselves in the situation where the, how man is treating away. and yet a former us president is banned. that's going to be controversial, right? yes, it is controversial. i mean, it is such a difficult argument to make these social media networks have not really figured out what is one standard. the only commonality has been if you're inciting violence, then there is some grounds to ban you from the site. only 11 percent of afghan is done had internet access at last count. that is 11 percent more than 2001. but suggests that a lot of what the tell about putting on line is not the afghans. it's for an international audience. unfortunately, the power has been able to master the use of social media, not just in terms of projecting its messages and its propaganda. but also it is in

use social media and is exploiting social media for purposes of recruitment as well . and so taliban 2 point. oh grows, it's reach on line and on the ground, some sites now offering pools for afghans to lock their profiles instantly in case they put them at risk. the taliban site no need. they've changed almost. i hate to say it like a rebranding. many don't believe them, they will have to convince the tech companies as well as the rest of the world. the sophomore and it's now joined by guests in new york gym and this and ceo of social flow, a company specializing in distributing social media content in washington. d. c half, and i best distinguish professor at national defense university. hassan is also author of the taliban revival and the prophets, air, and back in new york in myers founder of ocean x, y zed,

a strategic advisory firm focused on cultural and social media. welcome to all of you. so jim anderson, if i could start with you just broadly speaking, then what is the taliban social media strategy is in as much as you have seen it and certainly seems to be to embrace social media. you mentioned your piece, the taliban spokesman had 300000 followers. that is about 2 weeks dated. i looked last week. you had 350000 followers on twitter. i just checked the morning this morning. he's up 242-9000 he's growing about 25 percent followers a week. so clearly he's active. i think by extension you can see the taliban is active and you know, this is not the same old taliban, at least in terms of their messaging strategy. i think what everybody's really concerned about is their behavior and their governance. they are certainly known as a brutal regime and they have a long history of brutality. so i think everybody wants to see more important than

social media. how do they actually govern and what's their behavior? and then social media and they're very sophisticated strategy is going to be the indicator of that. yeah, that is, that is one of the big questions, isn't a, is, is going forward. what they actually do in practice compared to, to what they're, what they're saying on line in mind. if i get your take on this, given that only a 3rd of afghans actually have social media accounts. who are they actually targeting? well, i think the taliban are mostly targeting international audiences. that's been their strategy storage lee. they are looking to soften their image abroad. they've also used that strategy to quickly overcome the african governments kind of bureaucratic channel announcements. their communication strategy was very old and very slow. and from february onwards, we really seen that they've been able to advance quickly and then announce their advancements rapidly using social media. that's been the really internal target. externally they just want people to think we're friendly. this is the new time

we're going to do all these things. i think the real question is, is that the standards should they be judged on whatever they're putting out into the social media sphere, which even in the u. s. doesn't always hold up reality. and if the platforms continue to band them, they might get upset, they might ban everybody. and what's gonna happen then is we have no way to hold them accountable. be a local sources on the ground. it's a real conundrum for the platforms right now. how can i best force you will take on this? is this, this rebranding is it's been called tyler bond 2.0. so on is this all just for an international audience? no, i think this was part and parcel of strategies from very early on. i'll give you 2 examples. one was called. busy shop nama the night letters. so there are probably conditioning camping early on, but this is how they would reach out to people in the audience. had these experts who later on became in a way,

social media activists. but from early on had experts who would reach out to different people in different ways. other than the night later, they had points and motivational songs. so early on it was a set of lucian. they would stop the trucks and buses, public transportation, and talking about late $990.00, even after 2001. they were to allow those buses to pass by in the winter to areas if the songs of the boy 3 off a profile of on $43.00 is, is being listened to in these buses or trucks or the transportation. so they always knew how to reach out to people to be electronic media and they are converting this expertise so to say our interest in electronic media and the chronic real reaching out into activism in social media. so this has been a part and parcel of this strategy. jim anderson,

the point was made there in phil of els, report about the fact that on twitter you have a former president who is a former us president who is banned from twitter and you have the taliban. and you know, there's lots of opinions of what the taliban are right now and they are right now largely allowed to operate on, on twitter. what do you make that? yeah, i think it's gotta be a very uncomfortable situation for twitter. i mean exactly what you say, the former us president, and actually, while he was the sitting us presidents, what twitter said though is you know, he was banned for president donald trump was banned because of his behavior. not because of who he was. and i think the same thing would extend to the taliban as well as you know, if they violate our terms of service that they advocate violence. if they start behaving in a way that violates our standards or promotes that violence, then the band will hit them as well. and again, that, you know, i think that's what everybody is on pins and needles. trying to understand is the behavior going to match what they say?

and if it doesn't, then i think you're going to see the pressure ratchet up, you know, even more considerably. it's like, ok, they're saying all the right things. but we have evidence that their behavior is not matching that. now plat ones, what are you going to do? and i will say i, one thing i find encouraging is the fact that you don't have one set of standards. facebook has chosen to ban anyone and anything associated with the taliban. twitter has not. in some ways, i think that's actually a courage. and number one shows that the tech companies are not all behaving in lock step. they're, they're wrestling with these very hard issues and reaching different conclusions and to it also gives us the ability to have a bit more experimentation. let's see how facebook approach works. let's see how the twitter approach, which is very different works. and let's try to understand here in the coming weeks and months, which one seems to end up with a better result. interesting that these the say that the fact that there isn't a uniform policy is, is, is a good thing because i was, that's my next question. i'll put that to you. e and these are all you know, to put a facebook, youtube. these are all private platforms,

each with their own policies, as, as, as jim said, there. but does that complicate things going forward in the fact that there's not a uniform policy med, does there need to be there's not a uniform policy in the u. s. i don't see why there would be one abroad. well, you know, us is much more trend lively. territory for all of them, it's something that we don't feel out of here. i will say that even though their policies can sometimes inconsistent, they changed their minds. a lot, all the platforms do this. their motivations remain largely the same across all of these incidents. we've seen over time, i think for twitter, they've consistently been concerned mostly with ideology. they haven't really looked at profits as their main driver. they've always considered themselves to be the kind of global forum where anyone in less they violate their policies directly and very seriously can speak their mind and have a public record of what that being said. facebook always concerned with p. r and profits. optics. how do they look, are they going to get regulated?

how much money are they still able to make this has been pretty consistent and i think their actions in afghanistan fall that path. you'll get tick tock. they're concerned about nobody slowing down their growth. so as they're trying to ramp up advertisers on their platform, they're trying to get more attention is legitimate money maker. they're avoiding any scenario that could put them on the blacklist for advertisers, governments, regulators, anything. so even though the policies are inconsistent, the motivations i think remain the same. i agree with jim that it's good to have differentiated strategies here. so we can see what happens if everybody just decided to ban them all at once. we wouldn't really get to see what would play out . maybe they message will match their actions. who knows? how can i but now that they, the part of the taliban are actually in power. is there a risk that the the try to shut them down on? what any of these platforms, you risk, you know, shutting down the, the running of the government and then that, that affects atkins. that is,

so this will be a new challenge, a new issue. but we know that there are many countries in the world which are autocratic in their solutions committed by many countries. and they have many of the institutions which have their presence, all the websites or we are also on social media. so there has to be one standard globally, and i think she was also more freedom of speech at one devin and at emigrate level . it is about find some, there were many dentist musicians which were using bip sites. many of those were shut down. other said they have to be kept there because at the time that is the way to to see what they are doing and work they are up to and how they're networking so. so all those issues that it speak, i think so far on the bottom, are trying to project, but they are more responsible that they have changed. i'm not saying let's speak that exactly as dense,

but let's see how it goes. if they will show more maturity and if they show that they are not inciting violence and warranty, if united nations accept them, then they'll be all of this kind of a challenge that we come up. but if you can see that the hardliners will be, she missed among these groups. the other ones were calling the shots and bid websites have been used in a negative fashion consistently. then there's a strong case for instance, of $2500.00 bond. we're managing a website mater, rich headed squandered on teams in english. do but still berry. and so that reps i've gone to for quite the right. in certain places i remember you would like to go on the website. it can be blocked. but in other places it was globally, it was available and there was a controversy those issues as well. so. so all of the factors have to be kept mine

in my eci medicine is there. if we, if we look at how this might play out going forward, is this going to be a sort of cat and mouse game here between, between the, the, the social media platforms and, and the taller bond to, to see what, what they can get, get away with exploit the loopholes, the crop up every time. i think that definitely be an element of that. right. i mean, and, you know, you see the taliban spokesman and he's the one that everybody sort of focuses on because he's got the largest audience. that is, the spokesman, you some of his statement, you can raise an eyebrow about, you know, when they start talking about israel or those kinds of things. i think we know what alabama is going to say about israel. do they walk up to the line? how aggressively do they message those kinds of things? there will be plenty of cat and mouth, but i can't help but wondering, you know, are we thinking about this only from one side of it? we keep asking you, what is twitter going to do about the taliban? i think is a very fair question asked, what's the taliban going to do about twitter? you know, we said that only a 3rd of afghanistan has social media,

and i believe that's, that's probably true. that doesn't mean over the next 5 years. only a 3rd of the of afghanistan will have social media, especially when you consider that nearly half the country is under age 15. and so i think the taliban in some ways is being very pragmatic here. and thing, when we can't put that genie back in the bottle, we can't just bam, social media and expect to be able to govern in 2020 to the way we might have 20 years ago. and so i think this is going to be very much i like your break cat and mouse game, but in both directions. because the taliban is going to have to adapt to twitter just like twitter is going to have to after the taliban in mars will see. will take on that. i agree with jim. i know i would say, i think there's plenty of opportunity for the taliban if they want to to get very aggressive. we have to remember this isn't just about the platforms, a lot of the focus on twitter, facebook, etc. but really it's also the infrastructure players that have been weighing in as well as happened in the us to happen to broad

a w s cloud prior infrastructure provider saying we're not going to host this content and forcing people to seek those services elsewhere. most of the internet is now run on a w. s. google cloud. microsoft is, are all those services need to be made. there needs to be decisions made about the services from those companies about whether they want to host the website, host the content of these groups. i think by and large gym is right. the, the population is young. there's a lot of usage of, of social media. the taliban have been using youtube particularly effectively to get younger people out on the street saying look how wonderful everything is under the new taliban regime. they've been doing interviews, they've been using influences very definitely. so i think it is. it is a question i have is that freedom of usage going to continue. it's a balance if they feel like they're being not allowed to use social media and the way they should, maybe they'll begin to restrict it for their citizens. has an i a, in my eyes makes the point there about targeting the youth in afghanistan. but this

works both ways doesn't, as we saw with the, with the so called arab spring in 2011 and a little in afghanistan over the last 20 years. you have a whole generation there that has gone up without taliban rule, amino willing, be willing to accept it now. but like the taliban, they also know how to use social media to their advantage. absolutely these. busy are all very valid, finds that for made. jennings also is that at this moment, the account of theater presented balaban is the only major source of information for us yesterday. for example, recently of our leadership use the to, to messaging to make a case that all the women hosts worker should return to their work. of course, the only focus 1st on the women's health work is because they, they have crisis. also recently the terrorist attack that happened,

people who were in the hospital had to be taken care of. and most of the physicians doctors are either at home or be in the process of leaving the country. so i live on need it. but how can i get the message out to, to was they only channels. so for some time, apparently this will be the only way and, and if started and gone to new to operate the way they are projecting in terms of minority rights in terms of women in terms of ensuring that human rights violations at the masculine not happening. and they're using touch of for a positive messaging. and the taliban mean control remains in the hands of those who were the doha, a group at home, a certain medications or d, p d was made. and we see that other groups, like i said, so i f, k, the slum extension on that be are being pushed back by thought

a bomb. and so if all those things continue to happen then patricia gone from tyler bond up. it actually turns out to be something which is making a good use of messaging in terms of using it as a tool. so or not, depends on the situation on the ground and how, how the various events speak shapes. if they continue enough, be sure that there is a form of government, riches that taking care of people, which is engaging with the international community which is responding to the international needs. an international requirements in demand and the future is being used for that kind of messaging or other social media as well, then that will make sense to, to continue to allow that. that's my point of command soon. i saw you nodding in agreement to, to some of that. do you think that this, you know, being on social media, it could, could, in the long term be a force for good and for the taller bonds in that is,

it provides an important line of communication. i think it very much could. i hope that's the case and i couldn't help but think it was not a grievance. exactly right. in some ways the taliban could become trapped by their own success right there. twitter spokesman has now up 242-9000 fans. i bet a week from now he'll be over half a 1000000 fans as you grow that audience and you use it effectively as part of your governance strategy. will you become dependent on that? what other channel is going to be as effective? just as has some said, you've got a specific need for female health care workers and you put a message out on twitter and you solve the problem. so the next time you have a problem, you're going to be just that much more likely to use the channel. and we've seen those when former president trump was banned. he lost a giant, we'd like to call it the mag phone, right? he was able to communicate with his followers, he was able to get the media to cover what he said. and when that went away, it's significantly harmed his ability to get his message out. it was a big, big deal and that's why i think you see so many people expressing so much concern

about the power of the social platforms. but in this case, what you're talking about a social platform effectively having some degree of power. it's very soft power over the taliban government of afghanistan, and that i do think it could ultimately be a force for good. we certainly hope so. in myers, this is clearly clearly times have changed since 20 years ago. when the tyler bond, when they were empowered, they were banning anyone from filming any sort of, you know, bad. the internet was bad. that is clearly not something anybody would be able to do. now, sony, not in afghanistan, they don't have the that they wouldn't, they would struggle to block messages from, from outside, wouldn't they? so with that in mind what, how, what would be the strategy going forward just to continue to, to, to flood the, the air space go going forward with, with their own social media messages? well, i think to respond to jim and his son. i'm, i'm of course optimistic as well. i hope this is

a change in their behavior and their governance and everything for the better. i also am hesitant to allow that to be the only one through which we see the activities of this regime. if everybody embraces the use of social media and they're sort of judged by that metric, is that really the best way to see what's happening on the ground? especially if they consolidate power on their accounts and limit power of individual users or people that might be capturing criticism or sort of hateful incidence that taliban inside. so i think the question for me is, if that becomes the message, are we all kind of may be a little hesitant or a little too eager to embrace that kind of messaging and use social media and what they're saying and sort of the fairytale and we want to see you for the african people and for the country. if you look at other regimes, if you look at other authoritarian governments around the world, if we were to just judge what they're doing based on what they say on twitter,

i think it's very dangerous, that's rarely accurate of what's going on. it's certainly not accurate of what's happening in the us. if you were to just look at our social media channels, what's trending on facebook. you know, a lot of it, it's been proven to be untrue and it's constantly taken down. so it's a slippery slope to just what that blends. i wish we had another way we'll have to see if they begin to allow for journalist operating in the country to, to a large extent. so we can get some media coverage to back up the claims of peace and love and a new chapter for the for the taliban. alright, we're going to have to leave it there. thanks very much. all of you. good discussion. jim anderson has an i bass and ian moss. thanks very much of being on inside story and thank you. as always for watching, remember you can see this program again any time just go to our website edges here dot com. and for further discussion, you can go to our facebook page, that's facebook dot com, forward slash a j inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter handle. there is a j inside story for me, hasn't speaker, and the whole team here,

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ah, revealing eco friendly solutions to come back. threats to our planet on al jazeera . ah, hello, i'm hasn't speaker in the how the top stories on al jazeera, as american forces draw down and f canister, the taliban is taking control of more areas around to cobble airport. u. s. military aircraft continue to land as the final evacuations take place. just meters from taliban fighters. charlotte bellis reports. the telephone has taken over. the fight is drive us made.