that we need to all, all women women but it does not mean that services have to be provided at such. then we will be expecting it is already that we would find more accurate so that they were in their own country. but this is what we would be in the mexico's president, not an outspoken proponent of abortion rights. stressed that the decision was the courts to make and promised not to interfere manuela up a little, al jazeera mexico city. ah, this is the 0. these are the top stories the us says is concerned. some people enough ghana stands interim government on global terrorism watch lists. the european union and iran said the apartments by the taliban are not inclusive. while china says it will maintain communication with the new leadership. so stratford has

more from couple it's fair to say that the majority of them, whether they oppose the taliban or support them, are expressing a great sense of relief. there is a sense that finally, there is potentially the opportunity despite the pressures on this country. and on this administration to prove their that they're going to stick to their promises and protect human rights. potentially, people are saying, well, now we can start again. most importantly for them is security and getting food on the table for their families. interestingly, we've been speaking to a number of women as well, and we know that they know women being been given portfolios in this administration . the women that we spoke to said that it is vital that women are given the opportunity to stand in this government securities, tightened the phones capital. as the child begins for 20 men charged over a series of attacks dealing 6 years ago. 130 people were killed and hundreds were injured and the violence in paris voters in morocco and choosing new members of

parliament and regional councils about 18000000 people are expected to vote actions . the 3rd since a new constitution was introduced in 201112 ton bronze statue at the center of racial justice protests and the u. s. has been removed the statute of civil war confederate general robert indeed was taken down in the city of richmond. patients in a hospital and mexico have died after it was flooded during torrential rain. others had to be rescued from the building in the town of tula. officials say at least 16 people were probably killed by a lack of oxygen after the power went out. at least 41 people have been killed in a fire at a prison in indonesia. the fight at the tank on jail near the capital jakarta has been put out authorities and investigating further over crowding prevented inmates from getting out. those are the headlines and use is going to be back here. the knowledge is here in about half an hour after the stream,

goodbye. it shows the world and change the us forever. but after a vengeful war and africanist on how much has changed, and at what cost? al jazeera looks back on 20 years since the 911 attacks news, the josh rushing sitting in for me. okay, today and you're in the stream has north korea rita's nuclear program. today we'll take a look at the evidence and discuss the implication of young young expanding as nuclear arsenal. and if you're watching this on youtube till over there joined the conversation, right, leave a comment and are live chat. and you too will be in the stream. north korea restarted nuclear reactor may mean that it's at work expanding its nuclear arsenal . is aware that the un watchdog monitors its activities via satellite. so that

raises questions, are we looking at another middle cast or other provocation? is it simply going to use this as leverage and future talks with the lesser both the biting administration has a lot going on. there's gotta stand the pen, derrick, china, russia and more. but it should pay close attention to this development and take any opportunity to begin nuclear talks with the north. here discuss that in more today's panel in washington d. c. jenny town. jan is a senior fellow, the temperance center and the director symptoms. 38 north program, which provides policy and technical analysis on north korea. also joining this is jean lee. she's a long time journalist in 2011. she became the 1st american reporter, granite extensive access on the ground in nor korea. an uncle ponder, he's a senior fellow in the nuclear policy program at the carnegie endowment for international peace. welcome everyone. let's start with this satellite imagery.

jenny, i'm gonna ask you to walk us through this. we can go to my laptop. this is an image looks like from august 25th over a reactor, but can you walk us through here? what, what's the concern? sure. so what we're seeing is north korea, 5 megawatt reactors, the gas gas grass by 20 production reactor. and where the arrows to the water outfall and what this is is this is usually a signature that the reactor is running. and so we're seeing some other waste water being expand. meaning if there's some kind of operations, whether they're flushing out systems or whether they're actually producing through tonya, is still in question. we would normally see a couple other signatures as well. if that would confirm that the reactors running . but we at least know there's something going on there. we have not seen this kind of activity since about 2018. and this is important because, you know,

during the past couple of years, north korea has continued to enrich uranium which is also used for nuclear weapons . but it does need plutonium. if it's going to build more advance nuclear weapons design, which is their own nuclear weapons, or even the miniaturized foreheads. and these are all goals that can laid out and is a party congress in january of things that north will develop over the next 5 years . and to see this is really a sign that north korea is continuing to move forward with w m b development and in advance is ability on k. do you know this be doing anything else? is this reactor have any other purpose? well, so definitely right to tony production is really the reason this reactor exists. and the reason that the international community has grown familiar with the young b on complex over 30 plus years and attention that's been get into this reactor and to broader facilities nearby. and this reactor as well,

i do want to add one just technical note is that while the reactor is the sole source of spent fuel re processes nearby for the production of flu, tony haven't use of nuclear weapons. something else that does reactor, i think an important role in producing a north korea is a treaty on which is an isotope of hydrogen that's necessary for thermodynamically or weapons which specifically pointed out kim, don't go into january specifically called for the additional production of thermo nuclear weapons, so it's concerning and serious development. i would have a ground beside the point that jenny also raised, which is that, you know, this is not worth career. restarting is nuclear program. the program was never offended. they were producing uranium all while the summits for going on, but the trump administration, i was just that this reactor was shut down in december 2018 and now it appears according to the director general, the operations of likely you know, looking at the timing of this gene, let's go to my computer real quick, i'm going to share a headline with our audience and set this question up for you. so notary of faces,

economic ruin amid food and medicine shortages. that's a guardian article. it says because a cove it in the border being shut down that not having a particularly hard time economically. is that the case? and could that have something to do with what some might see as a provocation here? well, there is no question that the last few years would have been extreme with it. okay. hey gina, we're having a bit of a problem with your mike. let's see if our tech guys can get that sorted and we'll come back to you. jenica took off the same question to you. is this a particularly difficult time economically, where nor korea and could that be part of the timing of this? it's definitely a difficult time for the north koreans with the co long border closed shut down.

because of course, there's just been a lot of a lot of problems that they're dealing with. whether or not it with the timing is tied to the restarting of this reactor or not. it is really unclear. there's been some of their technical things that, that have been going on at the reactor over the past 2 years. they have been working on the cooling system, which is also tied into the other reactor that they're trying to build the experimental light water reactor. and it may just be that those technical issues have now been worked out and they're ready to move forward. so i wouldn't connect all the dot so clearly. so there's a couple of comments and are you tube are ready that want to bring it to the conversation? michael says nobody has any interest in invading nor korea. ricardo desousa says north korea be testing the new usa administration to see how far they can go on can

. is this a test for the, by the ministration? i don't really think. so i made the simplest reason for why north korea restarted this reactor and just potentially producing more simply because north korea and a nuclear weapon states that intends on keeping its nuclear arsenal on expanding its nuclear arsenal. qindzhong, it has been quite clear back in 2018 before the thomas with the south korean president of the us president got can john unused his new year's day address that year to call for the mass production of nuclear warheads. and of course, they've been isn't uranium, and now it only makes the react restart. just one thing is that in addition to the difficulties faced by north korea, economically and as a result of the panoramic in 20192020, particularly in the summer months on north 3 experienced a you know, a state of nuclear, sorry. natural disasters including flooding, i don't particularly dramatic flooding in 2020, so young chinese, right? you know, they have been making, maintaining the site conducting, pursuing upgrades to the cooling system. but it also is possible that the react

restarting. now instead of potentially last year or last fall before the by the ministration was even inaugurated, may have been a result of an expected damage from those national disasters and the flooding of the site. i want to bring in another comment. this is from our child to better sees in spain is a special cultural delegate or nor korea here took this out. the only choice that's more country like the dpr can we 27000000 people that it has to be very self on preserve the life of the seasons and do not end up like iraq, afghanistan, and many other countries on the woods of that using purely isn't used to the battle of the nuclear power by he made up the nuclear weapons and more specifically the thermal nuclear weapons, the country kind of secure the un if the united states is going to a dock and beat north korea. because you can answer into any sports or the

continental united states. you know, so jenny, why, why shouldn't or korea have nukes, i mean, if he gets up the program example, what happened was davi and saddam, did he take a lesson from matter? oh, he absolutely did, and i think there was a lot of discussion even at that time as if cut off be if we had had nuclear weapons, would the us have done with those actually had been taken. i think there is a case to be made. you know, there's, there's some understanding of north korea is a small country, and it is a small country in the middle of large powers. and of other countries that have nuclear weapons the, their, their own or by proxy, by the us. and so i think there was a serious security underpinning to that decision to go nuclear. although it

does also serve other purposes as well, including the procedure prestige of being part of the nuclear club and also the ability to coerce more effectively. i think if you do look at the north korean calculus and all this, they are still a country that is at war with the us. the war was never actually, it never actually ended. it's only still on the armistice agreement. so in order to really get to a point of being able to convince north korea that this is the wrong path, i think there are a number of security related issues that have to change and have to be resolved. that would allow them the ability to make different decisions. but i think this whole approach of the nuclear eyes or else has been largely ineffective and, and has it, if anything, helps the north koreans justify their action more broadly. so gene,

are you back with us now i was, i was hoping that you might bill us in a little bit on, on the people of north korea and how they're affected by the sanctions. and what's happening with the economy there and how that plays into this. yeah, sorry about that. and what i was saying about the sanctions is there's no question that the economy of north korea has been hard. but i think we need to make a distinction between the, the regime and the people. the people have been sacrificed there will be, has, has been sacrificed by the leadership for electrical again. joe lynn has i do, i do worry about the everyday lives of the ordinary north greens and. and it was tough for all of this and the last few years and it's gotta be even tougher. now let's be clear, this is kim john treating his people like a human shield and holding them hostage to this kind of hardship because he has a bigger goal. he has making certain decisions that is putting his people in harm's

way because he has a bigger goal, which is to get his nuclear program to the point where perhaps the world has to treat north korea as a nuclear power. and that he'll a point where he can hold on to those weapons while perhaps negotiating amongst them away. so it's a really tricky question. you know, i think that we all care about the, the state of the north korean population. but it, it can join who self, who is holding them hostage and making decisions that is putting them in that mean for the effectiveness of, of sanctions. does the pain pass right through peeling young to the people and they don't take any kind of diplomatic pay off for it? so the, you know, the sanctions do. i do think that the north koreans are credibly clever. they've been with sanctions for a long time. they are very clever and very good at getting around them and sanctions and not effective unless they are enforced. so one of the challenges, of course, is to make sure that the sanctions are effective. and that is that is

a challenge. china for one, and i would say russia possibly, they don't want to see north korea rumble. they don't want to see this destroyed economy on their doorstep. the so they will, even though they signed on to sanctions, that the un has impose. they may try to try to find a way to make sure that north creative collapse now. and the other thing that i am very concerned about is how this is driving the north koreans to look at ways to make money that they need not only for the nuclear program but also to keep their economy afloat. and so i'm looking very closely at cyber. how is all of this driving the north koreans to elicit, listed need to make sure they're getting the money that they need to keep the people or to keep the leadership afloat and to keep that nor nuclear program expand it. so if sanctions have like a debt job in genetic please, please. yeah. and just to add to that, you know, i agree with a lot of what seems that. and the reality is to, is that the effect that sanctions have really does affects the people more than the

regime regime will be the last people to feel bad. and so the point of the sanctions has largely been to, to deprive the regime of money and raise the cost of them making certain decisions and continue to pursue their nuclear development. but especially the pensions on commercial sectors. certain people that i get hit for the fishermen, the farmers, the people who have now lost markets and lost things. and now, with the border closures, everything is exacerbated because there is no longer the ability to get good for the people who were working in the market and selling goods to get goods from china to sell in the market. and so it's having this whole coven complication is having, you know, a lot of compounded effects on the people themselves. but the people who will feel it,

the last and the least are going to be the least the one who we say that we're targeting decisions on it. so if you're looking at sanctions as the stick, maybe he's looking for a carrot. i want to bring in angela came, she says, sam nunn distinguish fellow for nuclear threat initiative. who has a question about what can be offered to him? north korea has been a nuclear power for some time already. it is always being demanded in the media that, that has to be the complete the nuclear station of north korea. and to my mind, the chairman kim jones is not going to undertake this anytime soon. he wants to be recognised. he wants to be recognized as a nuclear power and at the same standing as for example, pakistan and india will also nuclear powers, but not in the nonproliferation treaty. so demand of d p r k, to dismantle all the nuclear weapons. what is going to be the counter offer that has been given and there is nothing right now. okay. do you have any and site on

that? yes, so the north koreans, i think, have told us on multiple occasions clearly and they are terms in some cases what they're looking for at the 100 summit, for instance, in february 2019, the north korean quest was for the united states to offer a very sort of large package of sanctions really mostly focusing on the un security council resolutions that were passed in 2016 or 2017 with the russian and chinese support out of time when north korea was very rapidly expanding as qualitative capabilities and so far as the nuclear deterrent was concerned apart from data on the security side of things. there's a basket of measures that the north koreans call the hostile policy or us hostile moves. this includes everything from the provision of us, extended nuclear deterrence to allies in northeast asia, to physical us. the presence of us troops on the korean peninsula and nearby in japan, north korea effectively has the united states to pull these back it,

when it comes to negotiating on north korea's nuclear program though, you know, i do. i do tend to think that of the short term, the more promising power that had especially were to shape kim jong as choices. short of total desire to encourage north korea to stop qualitatively advancing its capabilities to stop the quantitative growth of north korea's weapons, credit fissile material, for instance, having some kind of package of sanctions relief that could be implemented. what's not fact measures wire transfer the cheat or to not make good on their word. those sanctions could be reimpose, may have some promise. but yeah, north korean top told us what they're looking for on the notion of north korea. sort of. 1 you know, one of the, one of the things that i think makes doing diplomacy with korea challenging, is that, why would it's true that north korea has developed nuclear weapons after leaving the n p t is not comparable to india or pockets on because neither new delhi nor ever actually joined the mpg to begin with. the fact that north korea pulled down at the nonproliferation treaty developed a nuclear arsenal, i think, makes international diplomat. it's quite careful about how we approach this problem

because we don't want to send president, whereby korea, as seen as enduring little bit around 2 decades of sanctions and other measures and effectively get away with developing a nuclear arsenal about i think we've set up or a dangerous precedent for the nonproliferation regime. more probably. so a couple more questions from youtube? karen, leon says diplomatic discussions are better than sanctions. and lots of my password says, has kim junglin expressed any signs of wanting real dialogue? jenny? i'm also curious to add to this it seem like in the trump administration, things took a weird turn there for a little bit. and i'm just curious, where are we now? has it reset to back before or did things change? because a trumps different approach and is qindzhong interested and having similar meetings with biden or do we now? well, you know, during this, from administration and,

and actually several times the north koreans have committed to deni grades asian of the korean peninsula. and, and certainly there's some learned a meaning to some of that, but this idea of are they willing to negotiate? yes, they're willing to negotiate. but the reality is, is that they're not going to, that doesn't mean they come to the table and simply put the nuclear weapons on the table and say, here, what can i get for this? this is a process and like i said, there is some security underpinning to their nuclear program that also needs to be addressed in that process. and what you saw anything or in 2018, was an agreement to an agenda that included that relationship. changing the nature of the security situation, changing us korea cpr can relation working towards a piece regime and working towards the nuclear is asian. and these are all things that needs to be done sort of thing together. not just about finding the right patients package, it is about creating an environment in which again noisy,

i can feel confident in making certain choices that it will benefit them and they won't bear the brunt of that decision in the future. what we have now with the bible ministers station is a, revert back to the kind of language we had in 2016 where the relationship is talked about. in this threat, dynamic north korea poses a big threat and focused on the nuclear station only as the goal. and so if you're the north koreans looking at. busy you know, already extended a lot of political capital in 2018 to go through the summit process and didn't necessarily get anything tangible to show for it is going to be more reluctant to come back to the table. now especially if there isn't a real sense of what they're going to get and the public messaging other than the being willing to meet anytime anywhere, doesn't give any indication that outcomes,

especially in the short term, are really possible. and it's almost as if the language is like 2018 never happened. we're really back to this threat scenario and this and real real nation. so please to g. i was going to say but, but at least where they're starting the vitamin efficient starting from this complete the nuclear is ation of the cream. not to say that i support that language, but in a sense that they're not quite all the way back to 2016 innocence. they are starting from the language that was laid out in singapore, in 2018. and so not starting completely from 0, i would say. but remember that the following year in 2019 that john learned left her noise, hit to get back on a train for 66 hours or whatever it was. and he didn't have anything to show for it . and so he's not going to go back to negotiation. i mean,

i do think that he wants a negotiation, but he's not going to go to negotiation unless he knows he's going to get something out of it. unless he's in a stronger position and in a sense what we're seeing now with the restarting, the possible restarting of this portion of young gun. and maybe we'll start to see some other types of provocations is expanding the or the arsenal. right? so that they are in a stronger position if, when they get back to that negotiation. and also creating sense of urgency. knowing that the bi nutrition distracted trying to create a sense of urgency in the region about their nuclear em. they're show another comment. i want to bring in this is from daniel kingston that he's the international relations lecturer, troy university. and he speaks a bit to the mindset. i think of kim jong on many the southern part of the korean peninsula already has been de nuclear, arrived south korean in full compliance with this nuclear nonproliferation treaty

commitments. however, north korea has demonstrated over decades that the leadership is committed to producing, acquiring, and deploying nuclear weapons. i don't believe north korea will abandon its nuclear ambitions unless the leadership abandons its hostile ideology towards the rest of the world. they view the world as a menacing environment where northwest is constantly under a threat is and you could as a north korean nuclear program inevitable. i mean the problem exists, but then be a full nuclear state. is it inevitable? well, i mean they are, they are a dealer weapon stay today, and i think they intend to retain that status. we've already heard about some of the reasons why they've decided that this nuclear weapons are an essential component of their national defense strategy. everything from prestige to practically to turn the united states. i do think that they will retain this for

the long term last fundamental condition that today they perceive to exist in the international environment around the cream finance lower to be transformed. i don't see that happening anytime soon. there are also other geopolitical dynamics underway, including the u. s. generally increasing its military presence in the pacific region to compete with china. while i think having effects on the us, china relationship will also enhance korean securities simply because us will have additional military assets and attention in this part of the world. so unfortunately, i think we are in for the long haul. i don't want to say never, you know, i don't want to say that north korea will never give up this nuclear weapons, but nuclear age itself is quite young. we have lost 100 years of experience as a species with their weapons. but certainly i think over the next few decades can go on at least as long as he's alive. and as long as he's leading north korea, i find it very difficult to imagine the kind of internal and external developments that would have to take place for north korea fundamentally revisit the use of nuclear weapons. right. right, thank you. on karen. thank eugene and jenny. unfortunately,

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