one of the active candidates ingredients, so we were still seeing problems continuing even from them. but it would be really nice to florida undertakes this review and publishes the scientific evidence behind its decision that would certainly help in terms of transparency of governance. but i do see that this is, you know, it's just an, a no brainer for most of a finance doping. what are its performance benefits? we really don't know. it is more a misconduct issue. the sports should be dealing with quite differently. ah, it's good to have you said you're trying to get here with the headlines and i'll just say are the united states has condemned delicious ballistic missile launch from north korea. to miss isles, landed in the sea of japan. as a surprise moved south korea flexed its military my 2 hours afterwards by

successfully testing a missile launched from under water. it's the 1st country without nuclear weapons to develop such a system. rope of bride reports. this comes on what has been a busy day of missile activity on both sides of the d. m. z. first of all, south career is claiming something of a 1st with the launch of this s l b m. now this is a submarine launch, ballistic missile, which is something of a technological achievement, to launch a missile from a submarine submerge below the surface. it breaks free and then its main rocket 5 and away it goes. in fact, south korea becomes only the 7th country in the world to have mastered this technology. this know how it says, wednesday, it had the successful launch office as of it's coast us, olympic gymnasts have told us senators that they feel betrayed by the f. b. i failing to seriously investigate team dr. larry nasa, 4 of his victims testified the senate hearing into the f. b i's miss handling of

the case. nasa has been sentenced to up to 175 years in prison. i don't want another young janice olympic athlete or any individual to experienced the horror that i and hundreds of others have endured before during and continuing to this day in the week of the layering effort. to be clear. take a time to be clear. i blame, learn as her, and i also blame an entire system that enabled and perpetrated his abuse among salt, the telephone seized power of garrison is facing humanitarian and the economic crises that struggling with high unemployment drought and food scarcity. and those

headlines born is here and i'll 0 after stays inside story next. ah, ah, ah ah, ah, this is a 3rd show. dollars back need. you said it will offer the age of the 15. other countries are expected to probably that is enough. this is inside. ah, ah, ah, hello, welcome to the program. i'm kim vanelle. it's feared that the winter season could see groan of ours infections rise. and the british government says it wants to

prepare for the worst. it's an ounce roll out of a 3rd dose of vaccine from next week. around 30000000 people will be eligible, including everyone age of 50 people with underlying conditions and health workers. l be given at least 6 months after person has had their 2nd dose. the government says there assigns protection offered by corona, vice vaccines reduces over time. and by using boosters, high levels of immunity among the most vulnerable people can be maintained visual. se britton's vaccine drive has reduced hospital admissions and help avoid lock downs by mr. bras. johnson plans to reintroduce measures if needed. the result of this vaccination campaign is that we have one of the most free societies and one of the most open economies in europe. and that's why when are sticking with our strategy, in essence, we're going to keep going. we will continue to offer testing and will continue to

urge everyone to be sensible to be responsible. wash your hands, use insulation. consider wearing a face covering in crowded places with people that you don't know. stay at home, if you feel unwell, download and use the app, and we will keep further measures in reserve plan b. the us food and drug administration committee is debating the water use of the booster shots later this week. and a few other wealthy nations have recommended rolling out the doses that's not recommended by the world health organization. it's asking rich nations to delay the program until every country has vaccinated at least 40 percent of its people. a group of leading scientists, including experts from the u. s and w h o wrote in lance at medical journal that covered 19 vaccine booster shots for

the general public and not needed at this time of vac seen effectiveness against mild disease may wayne over time. protection against severe disease remains who can remain. booster shots may eventually be needed for general populations if vaccine induced immunity wayne's even further. or if you very into mergers that can evade the protection. excited risks and distribution shots too soon, including potential side effects such as the rare heart inflammation condition, maya cut ashes. ah, let's bring in our guests in cambridge. chris smith is consultant verola, just and editor of the naked scientists in doha. patrick pang is division chief of micro biology and senior medicine and in rabbits as a dean abraham, he is head of biotechnology lab. the about medical school are very welcome to program. thanks for joining us. i'd like to begin with you,

patrick tang. the advice from not that long ago from the world health organization is that we should hold off on booster shots until most of the well, those vaccinated wealthy countries, a steaming ahead with their booster jabs their plans. the boost is, isn't needed. well, that's a very complicated question, and i think when you say whether it needed it, we have to after that different levels, whether it needed for the prevention of infection prevention, beer disease or death or prevention of disruption to provide you and the economy. so i think back question is complex to have the answer to all the different levels . so when you say if it needed at some level, it may not be for some things and then for i would think that it's actually very much needed. so with the evidence that we're talking only about the health care either that where the evidence is exactly is needed because the waiting immunity

in certain groups of people. so people are compromised, that never established good. and you need to start with elderly and possibly people that reside in nursing own very long term care facilities and, and, and possibly have an extension of back the health care worker that care for people that are in high risk. okay, chris smith, is there any harm then in getting a boost, if you're young and you don't have any underlying health conditions because different countries are having different rules around who should be getting the booster. so is there a harm in getting it if it's offered to you, we'll let that back and ask the question, what's the purpose of a booster? a booster is intended to reinforce, emitted what immunity? well, it means different things to different people in this disease because in some cases it means not getting severe disease. in other cases, it means not getting infected. the tall,

what we know and have learned over the last about 18 months is the higher your level of antibody, the more defended and better protected you all. and people with really high levels of antibodies appear not to get infected at all. people, lower levels of antibody, do get infected, some of the time they don't become severely on. well. so what do we want to achieve if we want to try to a low low low rates of spread of the infection through population? we need everyone to have the highest level of antibody that we can muster. if we want to achieve low levels of severed to be willing to tolerate some degree of spread through the population, then that's probably not necessary. and since young people don't develop severe disease, very often they do sometimes, but than, than you could argue will actually till they really need a booster. a tool, if they're under the age of, say, 50, which is why various governments in various countries are taking that particular

approach does do hom, will all medicines have side effects and vaccines and no exceptions. so there will be a small number of people who get vaccinated and they get the side effects, which can be trivial, a sore arm or more severe. so it impacts brain blood clots if you have a respect some of these vaccines. so it really comes down to who you're given the boost as to what your aim is at the end of the day and having system. ok as being able to hear me. i'd like to bring you in. what is the science say? what does the research say about how much the efficacy of the vaccines wayne's over time and over what time period? where actually came, we are having this discussion simply and we have to say it's clearly a simply because the paper in law sets that 2 days ago and the 2 leaders, boston leaders of the da, talked about that. we don't need this trust for the global population. maybe you wouldn't need it for some specific person in the criminal compromise person, for example,

or the frontline or that's definitely were not needed for the global global actually population. that's something that we have to say. and in comparison to that, the w a choice, actually for many weeks, i'll say that we don't need this booster. just to make us clear why. because we can succeed in locally managing the pandemic effectively. and being able actually to educate the wire. but we can not come up with that just by the way that in few places and not in the word or they pick up the actually the boxes, if they i think it's clear that they get the boxes and the 3rd shop will be very helpful. but the other thing, when you are managing the pandemic, i think i would just give an example. for example, if you want to do this and you decide that you will be given the 3rd goal or 3rd shop in new york and not given in san francisco, it will be a problem. i think we have to manage the crisis in the way that we are just one

word and we have to to get this efficient though to everybody around the world. and you write a very interesting point. i'd like to bring that to you, patrick tang, some people who are not being offered boost is, are worried about their immunity, particularly people who might have been given a vaccine that was less effective in the 1st place. should they be worried to those concerns founded? well, for different people who are at different rick severe disease. i think that that where the question has to be aim that go for, for people that are not at risk for severe disease, then they don't have a worried match people that are in a higher risk group. then then, you know, they do have to be a bit more careful in terms of what they do, especially if they're having waiting or mean they've had that only one shot or a certain back into 2 shots of effective vaccine. then they definitely have to act

accordingly. or wait for their government that plan to roll out. 3rd, the 3rd shot, if necessary, you can understand patrick and then even just from a messaging point of view and people trying to figure out what is best for them because for so long you know, the messaging was get vaccinated. look at what code does to you, you could end up very, very on. well, you could die from call it get vaccinated. people did that, and now the messaging is coming out in different countries in different ways. oh, actually now you may need a booster. so surely you can understand that some people might be concerned about figuring out what they should be doing. you are absolutely right. it's a very complicated message to get out there. and for many about the beginning of the roll out of the back. in an ag, they're backing up probably realized that there might have to be boosters and that, that you know,

that the back to schedule that were recommended were 2 shots are given in a 3 week or 4 week period. that wouldn't be enough to give long term last and you need to most people. so i think the initial messaging with the get people engaged and willing to take off the back the so that we can take care of their merging right in front of us. right now, but with that emergent but the doubt that area and awkward other be area and i where we're the immunity need be very strong to prevent transmission of that the buyer and also bent them the more near to each then then i think it's important. now that, that we change some of that, that messaging and game, and i think people might be getting tired of this. but, but the message has changed many times throughout the pandemic as we learn more about the buyer and as the buyer the ball. so i think again, we're gonna have to do that to, to cal people that might be necessary for certain people,

especially with the evolution of our into current form. yeah, we'll come on to the evolution of mutation of the virus in a 2nd. i've only come back to you, chris smith, i believe the u. k. and correct me if i'm wrong, is recommending a 5 boost of over fifties and both who are at risk regardless of the vaccine that they call around the 1st time around. so. so, does that mean the science says you can mix vaccines and it's not going to be a problem as a call, a long history of using combinations of different vaccines and proves that when you do that you get a better immune response for doing it. and this is actually called had to religous vaccination. so you use one type of vaccine to prime the pump because it were a different thing later or a different combination of action, fax, with and stream to stress the system a bit. and expands the mean respond seems to translate into a broader, more fast, more resilience and therefore more effective immune response. so it's not

altogether surprising that we should find that mixing matching between vaccines can lead to a better immune response. the been a number of big trials conducted in ok, including one called the common core trial, which was done at the oxford and more recently the call boost trial done at the university of south hampton, which we are eagerly awaiting the results. and they've tested many of the permutations of using different vaccines in different orders, and also boosting people with different vaccines, off the back off prior treatment with other combinations of vaccines. so there are different permutations, and what seems to emerge is the best reinforcement, at least in the short term, is to give whatever your 1st course vaccination was a boost up and says vaccine, which seems to be a good compromise to impracticality cost efficiency, efficacy. and also the tolerability for the patient that seems to give the best vaccine outcome measures ok. as it never, he, me,

a lot of people talking about how to move from this being a pandemic to being endemic. can you explain to our audience what that means? and. # what it entails does, does it mean we're going to be getting coven vaccines every year along with flu jabs? why do i have to remind everybody that's why we get to the vaccination actually? because of the vaccine issues to protect people not to be infected? actually, you can pick that you are even vaccinated. so the purpose actually not to develop your cases for the corporate and actually not to have this pressure on the health system. so actually in the country that will get to a percentage of the vaccination will be, can be, i actually able to the club for example, the of the, the corporate, my team is that and then they can, you know, are going to have to, i think, what will be doing is not the strategy offer. they are open. i think it's the

strategy shot or that is a limited actually when we see what happens, we'll try to get you a for example. and i think what's gonna happen, you just will be kind of survive in the presence of this virus and live in with it . and they think they're become and then they can see the example in and my number where people are saying you can just leave your life. and if you get the cobra 90, we have all the possibilities to bring you to the cast system that will take care of you. and i think that's what would be the aim for everybody. instead of looking at having 0 tolerance for the over 90 and the for soft costs or follow question for you, mr. ever he me, i mean, that's all very well, isn't it for, for nations that have high vaccination, right? saying, you know what, we'll just deal with it in the health system won't get overwhelmed. but what about for countries with vaccination rates remain very low in the continent of africa. comparatively, in the vaccination, it's a very, very low. so what is the trajectory looked like there?

why actually will be the you are for what i mean here can because when you are talking about africa, when you see the number is shame and shipped to see the numbers in africa or the vaccination population, we got absolutely a super sense of the population vaccinated and if you take out from the roku, you are a one percent and they think what's, what's really, why did w w a to actually are doing for the strategy to come out of the call because it's true and we have to follow it because we are saying we have to get to a certain percentage in africa if we live african countries without any bucks initially. what's gonna happen actually, just lots of people will be developing your volume. and instead of using this booster, we have enough. we have to look for vari base boosters to get rid of the mix. so i think the right way to deal with actually, and the strategy for auction profit is to get enough back to you and actually not

let the, the law and look at the virus reply. because one example that we can get, but we are definitely everybody will agree with it. just if we have lots of immunocompromised people, for example, in south africa, most likely like what's happened with the c 12 that is coming out the new body and pinterest, most likely we have new i, it's coming from africa and we'll come back to square 0 and for stop on again. speaking of starting all again or coming back to the stop, i want to talk about israel. patrick 10. most israelis were vaccination by march, but then by the end of june, they had the mask mandate reintroduced. people needed to put them off back on. what does that tell us about what is going to happen for everyone in the future? you know, will vaccination be enough? or will we be wearing masks from here until, who knows when, but i think it's really a little bit of a unique situation be. they were lucky enough to get back in very early and,

and back to me. i never can't proportion of their population very early. so and then with bad bay would they didn't get enough to achieve heard of unity, but they got significant proportion about 60 percent of people vaccinated. but, but with that, they started declared that it was the path and they dropped a lot of their public health measures. and maybe a little bit too early and not anticipating a new barrier such as the delta barrier emerging and getting into the population. so. so i think that that unique situation for a lot of different and converged and, and back here they're very lucky to have a virus that would be able to bade waning immunity in their population cuz they were back maybe earlier than most other country and. and then they had also dropped their math, mandy, so with that, they had to take action,

and then it had to reverse public health. the thing that they had, ross rises as careful balances. and at christmas, a lot of kids are children are heading back to school now. but children, at least in the us, represent more than a quarter of new weekly coven 19 cases. at the moment. i keep getting sicker with delta. do we need to be worried about them getting infected at higher rates? the been very controversial in the u. k as well, because in the last couple of weeks, we've seen a bit of a back and forth with our politicians and various advisory groups to decide on who should get things. and what they've been arguing about is, should we be offering vaccines to children? many other countries around the world, including in the us, but many of the european countries all proactively vaccinating their children in some european countries. they've got to nearly a 100 percent of their young children age 12 to 15 in the u. k. we're just

beginning to embark on that particular journey and what is that you get very large uptake of over large amounts spread the virus in that particular sector of society . why? because those the last groups to be offered vaccination. so that current to bull, they're also more likely to be more how holly, socially network, they're meeting with each other. they're in school at university, at work, public transport, partying games, nightclubs and so on. and this is all up, but your transmission to occur. so as a result, there's a higher risk in that particular group that they're going to amplify the infection . so many people are saying that we should be actively intervening in this particular sector facade, to help to blunt transmission there. because they are an amplifier. they create more cases. those cases then spread to other people who, while children are very low risk and you ask the question about delta l, still a very low risk, severe disease with corona virus, of any persuasion. it's about on par with being hit by lightening your chance of having to be around the risk of post ball syndrome is

a bit higher because of the radical risk of a smidge these in the minority. and because of long coded top symptoms. but because of the societal impact of them spread infection, that's why people are saying that back to this group is it because you can help to protect against all of the as it enable me. we touched on it earlier, but i want to come back to this. what is the actual likelihood that the virus will mutate and current vaccines will no longer be effective? is that a given? why actually we looked in the paper when we looked at the, the waves of the virus through the end of the day making morocco and watch the waves and they were correlated to all of them. so the presence of dominance volumes . so i think if we look at it now, the phoebe like 3 mom and after what you get and you evaluate that will give them a nathan. so i think the last time it was like march

a for and now we got one in august. so most likely we are looking at the by 3, we have another one. so we have to simply just for the population to know why. simply, if you'd have the bias supplied by what can happen every time you will copy genetic material, it will make that's what we call a mutation. if you combine this mutation in one bar, that is important for the wired, for example, the spike protein. what's gonna happen you need, you will get to your characteristic and you will get and you are you and here was the same washy, is spreading rapidly. it's more dangerous our given bore up difficult. and the 3rd thing is, is this escaping the military, i think will most likely gets in your body like you will get the stress or 6 way of

coming away. ok. patrick. time. we're nearing the end of the program or to ask you quickly. the need for vaccine boosters has in some circles, emboldened anti vac says people who don't want the vaccine, don't believe, but leaving it as of right now. what does the science say? so we can be unequivocal about how much more likely you ought to be hospitalized if you catch cove it. if you're under x and aged versus if you're fully vaccinated. well, i'm equivocal that the people that are back, they have a much lower chance to be back. the nature of being of dying, of been hospitalized, or having even infection compared to the back to me, to people. so from different estimates that would be, i can fold, i increase in your risk of dying from cobit in a developed country, and that really changes in different places. but, but there's absolutely the risk of

a back in it's far less than the risk of getting cobit and, and think that that has to be the message that has brought out. and we have to be careful not to disparage the value back in, even as a variant. you merge that back being no matter how much the variance involved so far, they haven't been able to give a good and high degree of protection against the year to the from all the parents. so absolutely, hey, thank you very much for that shipping. thank you to all about guess, christmas, patrick tang and as a dean, abrahamic, i beg you to for watching, you can see the program again any time by visiting our website out there or the com . i further discussion, go to our facebook page at facebook dot com, forward slash ha, inside story. you're going to join the conversation on twitter handle is a j inside story for me, kids now and the whole thing here. and so how about the

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examining the headline. we can have a political the sense of. well, that's because this is, should not be the reason for kill other human investigative journalism location. we've gained access to a training can run by a boy from different corner. i never see, no american dream in america. you just feel like your caged animals. things on my child shouldn't go through the program that isn't your eyes, nor kind of, if you, well today on alger, how many nukes has too many new america has in many ways driven the arms parties are much more like the british parties now to the, there are you regulation to own a tiger than their, our own a dog? how can this be happening? you know, we take on us politics and society, and that's the bottom line. ah,

al jazeera, you ah, this is al jazeera, ah, hello, i'm adrian. this is ally from doha, coming up in the next 60 minutes, both south korea, north korea test launch, ballistic missiles, apart from each other. maybe on gotten them into going well, and they bring some facilities for our pupils. different.