reaching up 4 kilometers into this guides releasing all sorts of gases from sulfur dioxide to oxygen to menu him and calcium. and then next to it is a white smoke coming out and that's where a fuse of lava hot magna lava it's flooring. in down the slope and that's what, that's is the focus for the geologist there on the ground because there's already this river of lava it bouncing slowly towards the ocean. and with this fluid love of the fear is that is going to advance even closer to the ocean. it's moving a currently at the rate of 30 meters an hour slowly. it has built 2 to 2 kilometers to go. so in the short run, what's happening here is that people are evacuated, homes are being destroyed, entire villages have disappeared, have been swallowed by that river of lava. and it's unclear whether they're going to be allowed to be to come by can, because as i mentioned, this is quite temperamental. things could change it at any moment.

ok, this is al jazeera and these are the headlines. vote counting is currently underway in germany's election and it appears to be a dead heat between the s p d and see the urine. and so for the 1st vote in 16 years with outgoing chancellor, anglo mark or not on the balice. while the chancellor candidate from anglo michael's conservative cd, you says his party is not satisfied with the results. but armin lasha vowed to do everything possible to build a conservative lead government have i come is to by the election campaign is finished. and this is now about one thing, a stable coalition for a strong and modern germany towards the chancellor will be the one to bring opposites together, develop a successful program for the coming 4 years. there will be many intensive talks and discussions and the work being done with competitors in the next few days. because

when the, some of it, they are, the chancellor will have to develop a project that goes beyond the coming weeks. and i am prepared for that task. thousands of people are protesting against that unity and president in the capital . but supporters of case i also out on the streets of junior, on wednesday, he announced he would rule by decree. funeral has taken place for one of 5 palestinians killed by israeli forces the bodies of before others are being withheld by israeli authorities. the troops stormed several villages in jan in ramallah early in the morning to dawn government, his warning of huge financial losses after protest is blocked. 2 oil pipelines in the main seaport. they are rallying against a peace deal with rebel groups which they said discriminates against them. while those are the headlines, i'll be back with much one use for you here on al jazeera after inside story to stay with me.

transaction declined at china, has made it illegal to trade crypto currencies, including the coin. it is also looking at high to rules, beloved embracing what's being called the future of money. so should digital currency is regulated isn't ah, the welcome to the program. i'm in ron con, bitcoin emerged a decade ago is a digital alternative to money. as we know it's curbside currencies, like it's a traded online, away from the control of government, central banks and institutions of the global financial system. but the world's 2

biggest economies aren't too happy about it. china has declared all crypto currency transactions to be illegal and is threatened further action. it's the latest step off to regulate, to stop banks from offering virtual currency services. earlier this year, the government is accused criminals of using crypto currencies to launder money. but it's central bank is preparing to launch its own digital gun as early as next year. a media reports in the u. s. suggest the federal reserve is working on a so called blueprint on the future of money that could be released as early as this week for public debate. regulators have been examining tighter rules and try to encrypt currencies. the reserves chairman jerome pals, as the central bank could also launch is own digital currency. we think it's really important that the central bank maintain a stable currency and payment system for the public's benefit. that's one of our jobs. we also live in a time of transformational innovation around digital payments. and we may need to

make sure that the fed is able to continue to deliver to the public a stable and trustworthy currency and payment system. so there is extensive private innovation, a lot of which is taking place outside the regulatory perimeter and innovation is fantastic and our economy runs on innovation. but where the public's money is concerned, we need to make sure that appropriate regulatory protections are in place. and today, they really are not in some cases, while some countries are cracking down on crypt currencies, a few others are embracing them. el salvador has become the 1st country in the world to adopt virtual currencies as it legal tender. ukraine has passed a law that legalizes and regulates crypto currencies for citizens, but companies would still be subject to the law for their activities. cuba, central bank plans to recognize digital products like bitcoin and is expected to set rules on how to deal with the malta singapore, in switzerland or among nations and creating a business environment where crypto currency can growth.

ah, let's bring it, i guess in new york, john big's journalist and former editor of coin desk in them. he bo shuffle and assistant professor and economic low tech university and in london, ken goodman, an investor and author of the crypto trader, a warm welcome to you. all i want to begin in london. first with glen goodman. it used to be the crypto currency, should have been called cryptic currency because no one really had a clue about what it was. here we are a decade later. and not only do we understand what credit cards he is, but governments are trying to get in on the act and that was exactly the reason crypto currency was set up full to stop government regulation. what the chinese are doing. and let's begin with them. first is protecting their own digital currency rather than trying to regulate all of them. is that right? yes, completely right. really, the idea with the chinese government is simply to banish all currency from the

country altogether in any of their guys's and allow the digital you are the one that when it launched, eventually to basically take over the role that cryptic currencies would've originally had had the chinese government not interfered but also a very much in host road because really the digital you on as a kind of m t crypt, the currency of the precise opposite of what countries like bitcoin was set out to do in the 1st place which was to as you say allow people to have a certain amount of freedom from governments to and to not have anybody's permission for sort of moving their money around the chinese government to not only have permission rights over the moving of money, but also possibly to look into every aspect of people's financial lives to watch every single transaction go from a to b and even possibly to put limits on the way that people can use their money. this is one of the big fears about what the chinese government might do because it certainly will have the technological capability to, for example,

tell people while you've been a naughty boy. you've been saying some things that the government doesn't like that for we're not going to allow you to spend your money on playing fairs or on train fairs. the idea is in some people's minds that it will be incorporated into china's growing social credit system, allowing people who behave like good girls and boys to have more rights than other people and yield john biggs. it's not just the chinese doing this. the americans mulling over something called c, b, d, c, the central bank, digital coin, they may, will be talking about this publicly next week. once again, always thing a tooth tear system of crypt icons. you've got the original crypt currency which was block chain. all that was recorded transactions, and now you got this, well, some people are calling stable coin, which is basically linked, almost like traditional money to a central bank to a system. are we going to see 2 separate currencies emerge?

well, sure, i mean, so let's, let's talk about that a little bit. i might, you could argue that the 2 currencies, the superior currency, is going to be the traditional bitcoin theory, i'm et cetera. those are, those are the currencies that can route around damage, right? and damage in this case is regulation damages, government prying damage is privacy, et cetera. you're trying to route around these, these invasions, these inferior currencies are going to be the government currencies. eventually, all governments have to go digital. i mean basically we already are digital moving money around is basically just moving zeros and ones from bank to back. so where we're at that we're at that point, the idea that a government can control this stuff at all and even even release their own curb to crypto currency is, is pretty ridiculous. but that's not going to stop him from trying to be sure for in amsterdam. is that any precedents in history hill when we talk about

a new type of currency emerging or is this so completely new that we're kind of scrambling to regulator? so actually the very 1st regulations regulating a technology data back from over of almost 4000 years. that's something we've been doing for a very long time. but indeed, i mean, as we discussed already, we do have new types of currency, which is very interesting because it means we have private competitions coming on a market which is public by nature. and this is why you see some governments reacting so strongly. and of course, we all know that the chinese government, he's doing that, and in just a few weeks or month we'll introduce as we just discussed, their own criminal currency. i think eventually we have to discuss whether or not we still want to goal those currencies of block chain or critical currency because indeed, there are enough very much decentralized. and there are a bit of the exact opposite of the spectrum when it comes to be going in the area. so that's the discussion we need to have. but yes,

i will argue this is something which is pretty much new, probably in the 3 of us in london. glen goodman, should i be selling big coin if area, if i've gotten the i times, but if i did, should i be selling them? i mean, is this going down the toilet? i think you're far too early to say going down the toilet. though you are certainly right to worry. i think because when i look at the climate of increasing regulation across the world, and particularly in america, it's still about as clear as mud how they're going to regulate these things. and the european union has provided a bit more clarity recently. i just watch gary gans lead securities exchange commission, both in america talking to the washington post the other day. and i also half an hour of listening to him and when he pretty speaking, i still was none the wiser. i know that he would like to regulate it and bring it also within the existing regulatory umbrella. that's really the idea is not to

create necessarily brand new regulations across the country, but to find ways to regulate them under existing regulations. other things that we, how that will be done is unclear and because it's unclear of worrying because there are all kinds of little tweaks that they could make that could either allow correct the currently company to continue to thrive and to innovate and develop new ideas. and ways of doing things, or with just a few little tweaks we can find ourselves in a situation where for example, ordinary investors find it impossible to invest in crypto. i know the so called accredited investors are able to do so that could happen. and also, new businesses could find themselves being squeeze out of the crypto economy or fund berry as a so high entry that they find it hard to get into the industry, which could leave the all the money for the sort of existing big businesses. in

fact, you know, the existing crap because he's like bitcoin and a theory and could even benefit from regulation because it, because they're the biggies. and it could make it more difficult for the newbies to kind of get in and build their way up. john big's actually going to makes an interesting point. we have day traders who are allowed a certain amount of access through nowadays apps on their phones to trade shares, but they called without regulatory authority, trade, huge amounts of money. and the big trades that in a golden tax and banks like that have access to currently, if you buy crypto you're buying as much as you can afford and you're buying it without a huge amount of regulatory authority. so there's already regulation in place when it comes to trading shares and stuff. are we looking at laws like that to try and stop crypt currently? and is it true that what glen goodman says? the actually it's going to, it might only benefit the rich already. this would be the people's cause the annual

. remember those, those regulations don't stop, don't stop equity trading, right? so just because you have a regulation doesn't mean that the whole thing shut down is even for even for accredited, richer investor is quote unquote, or even for mom and pop folks who are using robin hood to trade on a, on a daily basis. the, the, the biggest question here is what, what these governments are looking for is to be able to tax capital gains on crypto . and there are plenty of people out there average folks who you probably wouldn't even know to see it who have millions. busy millions of dollars in crypto, who a have a very hard time getting it out into currencies. they're going to, once they start moving it, that changes all sorts of that makes all sorts of ripples and be they don't want to move it out much rather play the markets like they have been playing. but every single government around the world wants a piece of that action. they want a piece of that capital gains. and right now you don't have that. so we're in

a situation where the fcc and those folks are trying to regulate crypto in the same way. but they can't decide if it's an equity, they can decide if it's a currency they can decide if it's, i don't know, a municipal bond. who knows what, how would you define this thing within those confines? so all this regulation that's all we're talking about in some of the free or countries then yeah, it will become a rich person's game. ultimately. once all this regulation happens, because if i can move $34000000.00 worth of crypto using my using my computer that i mind back in 2008 or whatever it's, it's going to be really interesting space for the see to mess. and because they want to, they want to have control over that transaction and regulate that transactions. see bush ruffle. we've often been called a economy that is global. i mean, we are cross border now, but crypto has actually really laid that bear, that we are a borderless economy. and this is a real challenge for government. this is why china is trying to crack down

a loopholes like you can't even now from an offshore server. go to trade with people in china. it's a big challenge. this idea of cross border economies is something that we're going to have to deal with. but how do we do that? well, and i would say, especially a challenge indeed for the blocks. and in the crypto space, those are, i mean for the one such as be going the centralized and distributed crypto and way of transacting. meaning that it is, it is not easy for anyone to come within the system to say we're going to make a version for europe, abraham, for the west and a different version for china. it doesn't happen this way because there is no a single person behind in charge of making such changes. so we do see in did something which has been called the brussel defect. but he made the called the chinese effects, which is that if you regulate 1st, then you impact the entire world. and i think it has to do again with the nature of what we are talking about, which is a infrastructure for tomorrow's transaction. and this is why with china being

wanting to, to regulate that because the wants to control the infrastructure. i think this is why we're going to see you as soon regulating blocks in itself instead of just regulating certain applications such as financial obligation. and it might be why we're going to europe also doing the same, which is again to regulate the infrastructure instead of simply focusing on certain way of using block chains, which is the regulation that we have right now in europe, which are financial in nature. but eventually, i'm pretty convinced they're going to move on to the entire system. because again, we talk about infrastructure terms that come to you in just a 2nd bow and bring in john biggs. hey job, i get the feeling and correct me if i'm wrong, but i do get the feeling that you'll minimal regulatory authority when it comes to crypto currency. so right. i don't want folks to get to get scammed. i don't want folks to get ruined because of crypt currency and it's really re dangers out there . that said, it's what they're proposing is impossible. there's literally no way to regulate this stuff in any,

any way that's familiar to anybody at the fcc or even in the chinese government. china's great firewall work if you're poor doesn't, is because usually by possible if you're rich in the same way, all these rules and regulations around crypto, especially china outline crypto. they don't have any effect. it really has no effect on the average minor out there doesn't really care. and the average person with crypto doesn't really care about crypto transactions are going to current china, whether the chinese government should happen or not. that's one of the keys. that's one of the benefits of this, and that was one of the benefits of the original internet. it was, again routed around damage and damage. in this case, very specifically is regulation. i'm all for keeping people safe and keeping people who aren't familiar with the stuff out of it until they've educated themselves enough. but that said, it's almost impossible to stop being somebody from being smart on the internet and also some impossible stops somebody being stupid on the internet. glenn goodman, then all we talking about

a universal system of regulatory authority that takes place globally. are we talking a financial un security council of sorts? is that the only way of actually managing crypt currency? maybe eventually, but certainly not in the foreseeable, foreseeable future. there's not really any sign of that being done country by country. and i think a different view to john biggs on, on some of these issues, for example, with, with regards to china. now, i don't live in china and i don't know how easy it is to get around the rules. but i did read the people's bank of china's new rules or new statement, rather on crypt currency, which was earlier this week. and those are pretty strong words. basically, anybody who even owns any county or tries to deal in any correct because he just an ordinary person trading. it isn't legal trouble now. like could be very serious legal trouble. we could have, you know, the intelligence services bang on their door content trouble, at least that's one of the people's bank of china's note employed. so i would be

very scared if living in china and getting around the rules with virtual private networks and all the rest of it. i would be quaking in my boots. so i expect that will change behavior of quite a lot of people in terms of general regulation in the us. and so what worries me about because john was saying that, you know, a lot of ordinary people have got crypto is and they're not necessarily paying taxes. i mean the rules at the moment a quite clear in britain and america that you paid capital gains tax on your crypto profit. you do that. if you don't do that, you're breaking the law and you're going to go to jail. you know, everybody, i know, pay taxes, capital gains tax on their crypto profits. i know loza crypto accountants specialist. there were a website that will calculate your crypto profits for you. you know, this is a whole big industry. so like, how do you want to pull you up on that point? i do wanna pull you up on that point because it's something that i actually don't want to do. so maybe you can help us do you only pay taxes rather once you turn it into a fair currency, once you turn it into a dollar or a pound or sterling,

whatever it varies from country to country, certainly here in the u. k, where i live, it's very clear that every time you do a crypto to crypto transaction, that is a capital gains tax event. you would pay tax on any profits made during that transaction. i believe there are some countries i can't remember which ones off the top of my head where it is only when you convert from crypto to fear that it becomes a tax event. but i will say for the u. k. any transaction, any crypto transaction is a taxable transaction, or cuba shuffle is this thin taxes is this then the basis of how you write laws about coach cribson currency, how you manage to control it by selling people on the idea. they made a lot of money. they need to pay taxes. well, you could be in my use our discussion right now to discussing the beauty of crypto, which is that on the one hand we do have a certain infrastructure, which indeed is really hard to regulate and all the other. and we do have people

using these and structuring transacting and there we know that there are different way to, to force people who are actually too nuts to people, to behave in a certain way. it may be that indeed you take markets into accounts, which will be taxes or, or financial incentives. this is one way it could be that you do the chinese way, which is you actually rely on the law and especially the criminal law. and you say, if you do that, you go to jail is going to be pretty effective. and it might be that you try to increase the norms. what is the good behavior? what is the bad behavior? but it's better the old that needs to be embedded within the actual design of blocks in what way one will of another. which again, is the beauty obvious, because this is the for the 1st time that we do have to care about the technology so much when we talk about regulation, instead of just a regulating the use case of a certain technology. john biggs, we often hear government say, well actually, chris, i currency is being used for legal purposes, being used to buy weapons on the internet to buy drugs. and it's, it's all about,

it's very, very shady. how much about is true and how much of that is scamming growing now, perhaps a decade ago, it was a very criminal enterprise, but is it now? i mean, it's still, it's still used for to, to skirt scared laws. a lot of people use it for us, your gambling, that sort of thing. and the u. s. you can't have gambling. you basically have to use crypto to buy and that sort of thing. buying a, a k 47 and a bunch of hair one on the internet. i mean, you can do that with, you can do that with dollars as well. so it's not that it's people use people, use all types of currencies for, for shady dealings. what's and i think i think glenn is right in terms of the, in terms of the capital gains. but again, it's almost impossible to figure out those capital gains things and people, unless people are self reporting. and the rest of the, as you see in a number of these organizations don't have the skill or the ability to figure out what's happening in, in crypto markets. unless you're stuck on a coin base, unless you're stuck in a crack, unless you're trading in a place that is,

that is regulated by us law. and plenty of people aren't going to be, are going to hang out. and the places where they're regulated by us last just for that very purpose. so yeah, the only shady dealings that are going on is people don't want to don't want to tell how much cash they have and how much cash they've made. and in that case, that's why they want to regulate at all. all the other stuff you can buy or you can buy heroin, you can buy ecstasy or whatever. that's obviously scare mongering. and a lot of these markets are john, john, let me put that to, i guess, let me put that. so i guess what john is effectively said, cbo is that you can use all of this money to do shady dealings. but there are shady dealings done with other currencies. the problem here is the fact that this is outsmarted regulatory authorities. they simply don't know what to do about it. they, they're, they're struggling all. they struggling to think of course, they will probably never say that, you know, in a 2 party way. but we do have some numbers from, you know, big data analyses. firms trying to analyze their transactions. it seems that

a few years ago about 7 to 8 percent of the coin transactions were tied to eagle activities. and apparently now they've reported that it is about 1.5 percent, which is a lot, but also pretty much nothing compared to all of the legal ways of using blog change . and again, i think we go back to the same same issue it's, it is possible indeed to you create to her and see. and i mean, this wouldn't be the best for the purpose of legal activities or the ones which will protect your privacy in a better way. but if you are killed and if you do not fear the regulator, you may technically do so, which is new. but on the other hand, i feel like most people wouldn't 1st wants to do that, and if they wants to engage in such activities, they will fear the regulates, are regardless of the actual capacity. in practice. glenn goodman has crypto currency. outsmarted all of the financial regulators of the world. think the problem is it just changes so quickly. i mean, for example, the defy industry,

the centralized finance, which in some ways could replace part of the, the borrowing and lending industry. i mean, that just grew up for a moment. nothing in the space like a year. so of course that's kinda struggling to get their heads right. and we haven't even talked about f t 's cause you know, the j pegs which people buy and sell and audio files and that kind of thing. i mean, that's a whole lot of burgeoning industry which again what nobody had heard of last year. and now it's like a pretty big deal with multi $1000000.00 deals going on the whole time. so yeah, regulatory and regulators all struggling to keep up. and there are always several steps behind, you know, even in the traditional finance industry. i would like, i would like to say that i would like to see crypto exchanges better regulated. i'd like to see them regulated like stock exchanges. so the, the kind of people who come to me for advice and say, you know, can you teach us how to trade credit, the current, i always have to apologize to them like i do in my book, the crypto trying to say,

sorry, none of these exchanges are actually very safe to trade and you know, even the ones that are regulated in the states like coin base and kracken that regulated money exchanges. but they're not regulated, a proper stock exchanges, which, you know, so the regulators are looking at their trading flow properly and that, and that does worry me to some degree. but by the same token, you know, it's a difficult one because you don't want to over regulation. either one of them regulated don't want them regulated so much that it becomes really, really expensive for any new entrance to come into the market. unfortunately, we are out of time, but i do want to thank glen goodman to shuffle and john biggs, and i wanna thank you to for watching. you can see the program again anytime by visiting our website out there a dot com. and for further discussion here to our facebook page at facebook dot com forward slash j inside story. and you can also join the conversation on twitter. handle is at ha, inside story from me. iran cause and the entire team hit. the

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