migrants are also now concerned by the fact that the united states has been deporting asians that make it there. that is the case, for example, with francois ations that we met here with his wife and daughter, but he says he's one of money. he doesn't have any other option, but to continue his journey with even if we wanted, we can go, but we ran out of food. that's why we're still waiting to leave on thursday, a number of un agency have called for protective measures for ation migrants in a more comprehensive regional approach to a crisis that i least for now seems to have knowing the insight. ah, this is al jazeera, these, the top stories, australia will begin lifting its strength vodo restrictions from november. it will allow, fully vaccinated citizens and residents have been stranded overseas to return home

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street. we understand the differences and similarities of cultures across the world. so no matter why you call hand out, you sarah, will bring you the news and current affairs that mattie al jazeera did. hi, anthony ok today on the screen we're going to be focusing on the ongoing baka hurrah in nigeria. how many members of that group i'll be giving t t fact. earlier we spoke to you and i just had a couple of the theories as to why this is happening. now. there are 3 main reasons why large numbers of borum fighters are cleaning themselves into the general tories . it forces the death of a buck, osher cow,

the former leader of the group. since his debts the currently does. i'm been here unable to forge in new directions. so there is a kind of loss of trust, the 9 gen governments of then the seas this opportunity to increase the heat on your, on the organization, to hear more blood mens and all that means. and thirdly, the, the, i use an increased believe that if the surrender and they would not be killed or imprisoned a long time without trial said, as a young has take, what is yours? the question we're asking today is can back around flight is rejoined nigerian society. i know you've got a take on this popping into the comments such as your new chief and i do my best to involve your thoughts. your questions for our panelists into today's show. let's meet your panel. hello and welcome back lama. hello, welcome back, booky. so get to see the law,

remind our audience who you are and what you do. the senior analyst at the tony blair institute for global change and weekly column is with us in a g, a newspaper to hassle back. i'm booking with my audience. hey you, i'm what you day. my name is booky, shirley burger. i'm the executive director of your big toes of beaker, me humorist, advocate. so i guess let's be very clear about who are we talking about who is defective from barker? ha, ron. first of all, let me start with your take booky. who is leaving? who is covering to be re integrated into nigerian societal be specific the members of the book her in. so don't it group actually leave in their group for manual is, is underlying code actually said some of the reasons their family members, those who were forced fully cause clip 3rd, those will also joined to do called voluntary li are leaving. but particularly also

those were believed as it relates to the modus operandi, or the approach which, which the group is actually go about achieving. it's monday or only when the lama he's moving a standard associates. i think it's really important when we ask and can we join society, who are we asking to get back into nigeria society and i'm that. yeah, and i think this is an important question for me because the narrative has been, these are fighters. but the fact of the matter is that the overwhelming majority of those defect in now and those would be affected previously when they about fighters in book where they was the dns who i swear by book was claim of establishing. and it's not me, can leave it and they migrated from their cities and towns in nigeria and need to

come in and charge to the gross territory. i'm even in boca, i'm strategy today. there are 2 classes of people that are those. they could be done that despite, as a and the overwhelming majority of those in now those the billions who joined book, i'm in the hope that they would leave and i'm excited. and that's why there are no weapons, no evidence that they're about. that's not no small, but i think it was what but most of those protecting civilians and when they were, but i just looking for not you know yes, but yeah, i'm interesting about having a framing these various members of a book on from nathan because i hear for fast? no, i was just going to had to what lamar said in the eye of the average nigerian, of the civilian population. there is no dichotomy when you talk about fighter.

so even though internally and those who understand the modus operandi of the movement will not is this different, but generally it is understood so long. i think i remember in one way or the other, whether forcefully conscripted or not. or if i turn those people are actually defined defect in one way or the other. so my thought here about and i, j income is that they've always said how seriously it'll take the threat of boca rum, how much money they were putting into the effort to defeat them. is this a government success? cookies that oh, it does be many attempts, fanny, when it comes to an effort to integrate a member of book order, i'm into and an angel and society in 2016. the government actually did your push on save corridor, but it was flawed. you know, and i just really complained about the fact that how do you, we ability so called low risk, the pen handbook, or other members in 2017,

there was a dd, our data demobilization on this session. and we integration program that was done in partnership with iowa, that the manager and government also try to do. but the main concern for the average nigeria is that how do you differentiate this people what sort of integration program are you doing that does not involve the community. people do not understand. so a lot of these, but most importantly also is the gender perspective to the integration program. one thing we cannot forget for me is the fact that women are disproportionately affected when in conflict situation. and that disproportionality also must be put into place in the integration. and she bought when i was going to do project, they call it a woman, was waived by a member of booker. and she actually caught, ha, you know, she was ostracized in one of the id cards that i was going to walk. they separated

the place and they call the sunbeam. and that is where the really good that people were, have contact with members of boca in 2017 uni, serve the least a report card, but blood, you know, just to explore further, how people actually get disproportionately affected in afghanistan. looking at what is happening recently, just 2 days ago it report was released by the newly appointed taliban leader of the cowboy university that you know, did can he says that women won't be allowed to actually matriculate or walk outside . so they have to be gender perspective in integration on walsman. julian's cannot cedar a new reintegration, who graham would actually be flawed. i want to share this with you. beloved, you're very, very familiar with this or on my laptop minister says bihari government trying to make repentant buckle ram terrace. more civil. this is looking at the safe cordial program which started in 2016. these are some of the i'm not even sure what to call

them. these are some people who were associated with bako rob and now are in this program. can you explain what this program is about, what it's supposed to do? what are we seeing here, for instance? i mean people might want to know that i was depressed or to access this particular program. and i did a lot of extensive research in this whole video that you actually in the picture on a client in the program. so if you know what you can call them and what this program is supposed to do is to rehabilitate for my associates a book. i'm with the people who lived with them, or anyone that was associated with what i am and the way they do this is by giving them trauma accounts and in what you know, trend in a literacy skills,

but also a vision of what with moms and religious clerics who died somewhat bad, you could just, i did that in the 1st place. that's a anything i'm trying to look at. the 80 piece format associates with talk around and they seem to range in age, but i think quite young. does this program walk? many of the young menu i interviewed just kind of 18 after i do what i don't even for years. with that it was what i saw in the program after the program can be called. anecdotal evidence that the program does make impact. but i can see scientifically, i can't prove scientifically that it works, but you can see evidence of success. for example, a med boys, and i mean young men what,

what i'm now he got the english language. some of them will be happy that names in my dad now read and write and you know what? i'm just not even speaking english is not make it takes one. i saw a support as in the program. i mean, i'm not slow. i think evidence that the program is making impact on my end, but i signed up with anything. so al jazeera corresponded, i hear you saying booking, i want you to have a listen to this. i've 0 correspondence. ahmed interest has been in bono state. and this past week, we asked him to go out and about and ask people what they felt about reintegrating buckle, harangued former members back into nigerian society. he was in my degree, this is what they told him. ah, most of them are not coming out with their weapons. yeah,

just so rendering. so where are their weapons? i don't think it's right because we're not sure if they're really there for lisa and it and so maybe okay, we don't know if it's a plan come back into the society and you know, take back the ones that are becoming homeless. the id was, i'm just way to issue the integrity them. some of them actually join. we don't get late without been without your consent or maybe only the joins due to one thing though the order. so if they're really ready to surrender to change, or maybe they will go to a process of, i believe t shirts like maybe engage in one or 2, i think is a good thing. okay, i'm hearing empathy there. is that true of? i'm to say, i can't ask you to comment on all of nigerian society, what is public opinion? what do you, what are you getting public opinion right now?

no jury about reintegration. for me, the 1st step to our public opinion goes to the advertisement for this program. today, and i shared by am your twitter to day, and i recall seeing one or do less boxes to it. and if you knew i'd advertise to say i should at, booker and fight has been integrated into the society. i one of the comments, if not the 1st comment, said collection into northern nigeria. the other comments said by an indian that they're just, you see an idea of what elaine jillions are actually thinking. there has to be empathy. one thing we must not forget is that anyway, integration program does not involve the community. and that does not put into consideration the pool and a push factors that lead a lot of this categories or fighter like below my lately mentioned earlier that does not politic put it into consideration,

then we are wasting money for factors. such are the fact that there are peeling ideologies, you know, defined the material. and so she er benefits but also push fructose, you know, sort of, you know, to gaze for, for, and the relative deprivation of political glee. vs is the perspective that people have that they are marginalized. if this is not put into consideration any li integration program. and for me, in one of the community that i was walking in did not, is they believe that any woman was had contact with a book called am fighter. and get that not the child of that woman, surely double bond life or should never be accepted into the community. what people are saying that annual integration was actually involved justice. and in that justice, we must look at q franconia, you know, and i'll close my thoughts on that, where they made sure that there was the piece agreement actually formed the basis

for which integration problem was done. and there was it to me such that those who and didn't walk according to the rooms that are actually fish, was persecution, command responsibility, and international law must also be respected. and doors will have less arc length or did not come to sort, kind of goes against humanity. can then begin to be integrated into the society. how do you expect someone to 1st depress in the shot it gone and their father and just accept them into the society without having their my mom, it is something we will actually ask ourselves. that theme of justice is picked up by the executive director of the dean dini dowry foundation and she talks about the cost to the community. we've been talking about, boca ram, associates members from the fighters. but what about the community who has suffered billamore? i have listened to indie and then react, respond to her video comment. while some may point 2 with grades in repentance turns into society or some form of making them as

a form of when i call it did make them want to abandon terrorism and join our society. the fact remains that we degree term is our members and to know was to say erodes a concept of justice. it, she realizes terrorism in nick's nigeria, we like and there is no justice. what is, there is no repercussion for taking part in terrorism, but also look at the pain of the victims of terrorism. so many been it is a band on the nigeria. yeah, i mean, i completely agree with the sentiment i don't just is. and the question, i mean sure, sure, just this if you like to societies, but that are 2 major issues i want to highlight. yeah. number one, just this in this case is not straightforward. and that the non duty as western style a serial justice system. you can be a member because they destroyed the villages and the witnesses that would help just

to fight against them. and we know that the nigerian, just the system is very weak in got that evidence, especially if you want the police to do that. and what we have seen is, is this failure by government succeed in convicting any number of fighters. we saw this special course in kind where hundreds and hundreds of other members were presented. but at the end of the debate, if you're welcome and even those that are completed in kind g convicted because of the back and they did with it. well, they want it to lead to lead crimes like the mechanics mobile was stopping because we'll book i'm instead of being charged as fighters. i'm so they receive sentences that were 3 to 5 years or so i'm but was because government has no evidence and, and then i do, does the system with out before you can it's people that simply not on

the on. i tell you this lawyer who has been involved in some cases who did defendant so just that were that were charged me to fight, but i don't people that were unfairly. i choose a book. what i'm the 2nd point is very important, which is around this program being community centered. as we speak to did the life livelihood, or people destroyed by book, or i'm still not to rebuild religious hundreds and hundreds of blades. i still decided that are still the 1000000 people that i displeased governments a livelihood of months out of aging book. i don't like them coming straight. want what i've got to number. i mean there are several things one needs to do. i don't want to speak now,

but i would come by with 5 things. who are we want this program to succeed? i'm going to get your talk to you, but not quite yet because on you cheers. this is the question that is being asked, what happens? what happened to the victims of pucca, her rom bookie. can you just do that please? for you've been telling us the stories weaving and all the way fry discussion anyway. but to that simple question, what would she reply? even though the question is, what are hans 2 victims of poker? the effect on them cannot be overemphasized from the education of young girls that can no longer go to school. even though schools are open and literally afraid to go to school, we men will have been sexually abused. men will have been forcefully conscripted communities that have been shattered. i recall going to the bama idp come and it was one of those early times when they opened the idp comp. i'm

a literally saw children with leaves literally, you know, popular simply because they are ongoing. and i think this is what 9 jolessa plane to get to if you're doing the integration program. and the money that is being spent on the integration program is much more than the money that is being spent in ensuring that the victims of booker actually get the kind of support the need actually get the kind of psychological economy called financial support that they need then so kind of the empty and integration program is not sensitive to the needs of the people and new integration that does not by math, that is, is actually problematic. and this is not just about seen or will be viewed in schools all the open in schools. this is actually beauty in life alley beauty in life in was every thing, social, economic, or political, all of those development that either where ignored and lead to all of these

problems that we're talking about in the firstly or that would actually make their life better. there so many young women that are still an abduction to the over a 10199 m g bar girls are still in abduction near shall we still in abduction. allison gone, i still in abduction. these are the names and faces that we know. how about the much more than we that we don't know? so why would we want to be spending that much on the integration when angels can the b, c i y. i want to show you this program. i hear what you're saying. it's very clear, but i won't shave this program. so this is, i'm at interest. i told her he was born. i stayed earlier on just a few days ago. and he was filming a program that he's aimed at the kids. a book a hora. ok. he's his story. oh, born and raised in book, what am cams these children are experiencing for the 1st time?

what it means to be a child. they are part of the 6000 victims and family members of book. what on fighters? who send it to nigerians to georgia forces in the past few months after a few weeks of psychological support. those helping them are surprised by the rapid transformation they see. you see a lot of them coming into desert space looking very distress thinking hungry. what after weeks of engagement, oh, because we can get them for free ones sometimes depending on how we see there wasn't ability and all of that. so we offered engagement, you see a lot of changes, you see them interacting better. you see them taking leadership role to see them doing for martha. that's one program for a future for youngsters off to bucko rom. here is fowler who is suggesting a list that you do list for improving these programs for book. all right. have a look at least it's very and says with,

i says international society is to consider tree critical factors. the 1st factor, his sure risk assessment, individual exports is very generalized on which the 2nd battle is important. all of communities affected by duties of faces. in other words, the community based approach create a whole session to success off your intuition. and then the 3rd factor, which is very often listen, is the knee for each and a prospective wonder considers also the role of women and girls. because in law, who can you see measures corrine's operations of elizabeth and listening to the frog and why he did that before we started, i said, booky and a lot of and i mean, you said you had 55 critical things. i'm going to get your top teeth for starters.

right. how do we reform the reform programs? the book are? yeah, the 1st thing is to make them community center. i wouldn't hold it even community based community centered. and when i see a company descended, this program has to carry the communities. i know from the very beginning i want to status of the very end of the show. point number 2. point number 2 is attending some level of peace and stability because as we speak, book item is not as dense as we speak by in that you didn't go when to report on the u. n. o 2 d a 172. i was, i am good and moral. and that's what genius awkward into the un underneath you didn't guzman? and that led to all 400000 dead was the of children below the age of 5. so it is still going on. you can't. then it started. i went into a plan. all right,

booky final thought here. if in weaving your thoughts all the way through, i understand what you're saying about. it's gotta be community, community base justice, anything more that i hear that message loud and clear. job, just really, family justice, justice, your majesty, there's one there, but most importantly it means the shop go grab that is gender sensitive. the put into cause addition did disproportionate effect of conflict on women. and that involves them in the entire process of being to glacier, bookish, and barring thank you so much. i thank you so much. billamore mccarty always good to have you on the stream. you give us such insight into some of the difficulties happening in nigerian society. let me show you where to find them. on twitter, twitter booky is here, and this is for lama. and thank you for your questions. thank you for your attention. i will see you next time. take everybody as what industry?

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