regional vent is now mostly spewing ash, and it remains unclear at this moment at whether that new lava flow will follow the course of the original lava flow or open up a new pathway to the sea, potentially taking in yet more homes, yet more property in its park and overnight on the south side of the island, a brand new issue as arisen around the town of win caliente. there was seismic activity detected there at around 7 pm on thursday night, or an earthquake measuring $3.00 on the richter scale, 10 kilometers below the surface of the earth. not an enormous event in and of itself. but under these circumstances, certainly something that is of concern to vulcan over used to worry now that that could trigger a new mouth on the south side of the island. so communities here still very much living under the threat of this volcanic eruption and with a high degree of uncertainty about what quite what this volcano may have to offer up next. ah,

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as the u. k tries to move on from the pandemic. forrest john symbol set our plans to pay for the damage done to the economy. plus with post corrected woes and opposition to plant benefit cups. candler government offer reassurances of better times ahead lie coverage of the conservative quality conference on al jazeera and hi anthony. ok. detail the string we're going to be focusing on the ongoing baka hurrah in nigeria. how many members of that group are beginning to defect? earlier? we spoke to on a younger a jayla. we had a couple of the theories as to why this is happening now. there are 3 main reasons why large numbers of lukewarm fighters are 20 themselves in to the 9 general tories . if was the death of abaca, chicago,

the former leader of the group since his debts the currently does, i'm been him unable to forge in new directions. so there is a kind of loss of trust. the 9 jungle men of then the seas this opportunity to increase the heat on your on the organization, to hear more blood mens and all that means. and thirdly, the, there is an increased believe that if they surrender and they would not be killed or imprisoned a long time without trial. so now it's all a yank has take. what is you asked? the question we're asking to day is, can bach are ron flight is rejoined nigerian society? i know you've got a take on this pop it into the commit such if you're a new chief, i do my best to involve your thoughts. your questions for our panelists into today's shadow. let's meet your panel. hello and welcome back lama. hello, welcome back, booky. so good to see you. but i will remind our audience who you are and what day

the. i'm a senior analyst at the tony blair institute for global change and weekly kind of miss with daily trust and a g, a newspaper article back on booking with my audience. here you are. more iti, my name is booky, shirley berry. i'm the executive director of your big toes africa army humorous advocate. i guess let's, let's be very clear about who are we talking about? who is the effective from parker. how ron? first of all, let me start with your take booky. who is leaving, who is covering to be re integrated into nigerian societies the members of the book . and so janet group actually leave in their group for manual is in santa lane card actually said some of the reasons, the family members, those who are fully cause clip 3rd, those will also join to do good voluntary lee and leave it,

but particularly also those who are believed as it relates to the modus operandi, or the approach which, which the group is actually good about achieving. it's monday, the are only even pallana. he's moving an extended associates. i think that's really important when we ask and can we join society? who are we asking to be out again back into nigerian society? but on that. yeah, and i think this is an important question for me because the narrative has been these are fighters. but the fact of the matter is that the overwhelming majority of those defect in now and those would be affected previously when they have a fight in book, or they was the dns who last week by book was claim of establishing. and it's not me, can leave it and they migrated from their cities and towns in nigeria. i need to

come in and chat to the territory. i'm even in boca, i'm strategy today. there are 2 classes of people that are those. they could be done that despite, as a 1000000000 and the overwhelming majority of the 15. now those the billions who joined book, i'm in the hope that they would leave and i'm excited. and that's why there are no weapons, no evidence that about what, that's not there is no small. i think it was what, but most of those acting as the billions of by just looking like, you know, it has like, yeah, i'm interesting about having a framing these various members of since it's a book buckle her, i'm from a from that you got for fast no, i was just going to had to what lamar said, in the eye of the average nigerian, of the civilian population. there is no dichotomy when you talk about fighter.

so even though internally and those who understand the modus operandi of the movement will not is this different, but generally it is understood so long as you're a member in one way or the other, whether fully conscripted or not. you, i, if i to and those people are actually defined defect in one way or the other. so my thought here about niger income is that they've always said how seriously it'll take the threat of pocket um, how much money they were putting into the effort to defeat them. is this a government success? cookies that oh, it does be many attempts for me when it comes to an effort to integrate the members of booker, i'm into the angel and society in 2016. the major government actually did your push on save corridor, but it was flawed. you know, and i just really complained about the fact that how do you, we ability to so called low risk the pen handbook,

or other members in 2017 there was a dd out. that is the mobilization, this session and integration program that was done in partnership with io and that reminder and government also try to do. but the main concern for the average again, is that how do you differentiate this people? what sort of integration program are you doing? that does not involve the community. people do not understand. so a lot of these, but most importantly also is the gender perspective to the integration program. one thing we cannot forget for me is the fact that women are disproportionately affected when in conflict situation. and that disproportionality also must be put into place india, b integration. and she voc, when i was going to do project. i recall a woman was waived by a member of booker. and she actually caught ha, you know, she was ostracized, in one of the id cards. that i was going to walk,

they separated the place and they call the sunbeam. and that is where the really good tech people were. have contact with members of boca, in 2017 uni, serve the least a report card. but blood, you know, just to explore further, how people actually get disproportionately affected in afghanistan looking at what is happening recently. just 2 days ago, it was parked was released by the newly appointed taliban leader of the cowboy university. that, you know, literally says that women will be allowed to actually matriculate or walk outside. so they have to the gender perspective in integration and was my jillions cannot cedar and you're willing to go. graham would actually be flawed. i want to share this with you and beloved, you're very, very familiar with this are on my laptop minister says bihari government trying to make repentant buckle ram terrorists, more civil. this is looking at the safe cordial program which started in 2016.

these are some of the i'm not even sure what to call them. these are some people who were associated with bach her. um and, and now are in this program. can you explain what this program is about what it's supposed to do? what are we seeing here, for instance? i mean, people might want to know that i was a to access this particular program. and i did a lot of extensive research in this whole, this video that you actually in the picture. and they are going to plan in the program. so if you know what you can call them and what this program is supposed to do is to rehabilitate my associates a book. i'm with the people who are you with them or anyone that was associated with them. and the way they do this is by giving them trauma accounts and then what, you know, training on numerically tracy skills,

but also some form of the radicalization. what with the moms and religious clerics who died with some of that bad, you could just do that in the 1st place. that's a lot. i mean, the thing i'm trying to look at the ages of these format associates with talk around and they seem to range in age, but they seem quite young. does this program walk? many of them, a young menu, i interviewed just kind of 18 after i do a book, i don't even for years with that it was what i saw in the program after the program can be called. anecdotal evidence that the program does make impact. but i can see, typically, i can't prove scientifically that it works, but you can see evidence of success. for example, a med boys, and i mean young men what,

what i'm now he got the english language. some of them were very happy that names in my daddy that they would now read and write and you know, i'm just not even speaking english is not make it takes one. i saw a support as in the program. i mean, i'm not, i think evidence that the program is making an impact on my end, but i signed up lose anything. so al jazeera corresponded, i hear you saying booking, i want you to have a listen to this. i've 0 correspondence, ahmed interest. he's been in bono state, and this past week, we asked him to go out and about and ask people what they felt about reintegrating bako harangued former members back into nigerian society. he was in my degree, this is what they told him. ah, most of them are not coming out with their weapons. they're just so rendering. so

where are their weapons? i don't think it's right because we're not sure if they're really there for lisa and and so maybe. okay, we don't know if it's a plan come back into the society and you know, take back the ones that are becoming homeless. the id was, i'm just way too dish. we do the integrity them. some of them actually join. we don't get late without been without your consent or maybe only lead a joint new to wanting know the order. so if they're really ready to surrender to change, or maybe they will go through a process of, i believe t shirts like maybe engage in one or 2, i think is a good thing. okay, i'm hearing empathy there. is that true of? i'm to say i can ask you to comment on all of nigerian society, what is public opinion, what are you, what are you getting public opinion right now?

no jury about reintegration. for me, even though the 1st step to our public opinion goes to the advertisement for this program today. and i shared by am your twitter and are today. and i recall seeing one do less policies to it. and if you had advertised to see i should at book i'm fight has been integrated into the society. i one of the comments, if not the 1st comment said collection into northern nigeria. the other comments said by an indian that they're just, you see an idea of what elaine jewelers are actually thinking. there has to be empathy. one thing we must not forget is that annual integration program does not involve the community. and that does not put into consideration do pool and push factors that lead a lot of these categories or fighter like and below my lately mentioned earlier that does not politic put it into consideration,

then we are wasting money for factors. such are the fact that there are peeling ideologies, you know, defined the material. and so she er benefits, but also push fructose, you know, such as, you know, to gaze for, for, and be a relative deprivation or political grevious is the perspective that people have that they are marginalized, if this is not put into conservation, any reintegration program. and for me, in one of the community that i was working in the not is the believe that any woman was had contact with a book or them fighter and gets paid not the child of that woman shooty double bond life or should never be accepted into the community, what people are saying that annual integration was actually involved justice. and in that justice we must, okay. q of going to put on here, you know, and i'll close my thoughts on that, where they made sure that there was the piece agreement actually formed the basis

for which integration problem was done. and there was it to me such that those who and didn't walk according to the room start or actually fisk was prosecution, command responsibility and international law must also be respected. and doors will have less arc length or did not come to sort, kind of goes against humanity. can then begin to be integrated into the society. how do you expect someone to 1st depress in the shot? it gonna be a father and just accept them into the society without having their mom. it is something we will actually ask ourselves. that theme of justice is picked up by the executive director of the dean dini dowry foundation. and she talks about the cost to the community. we've been talking about, boca ram, associates members from a fighters. but what about the community who has suffered billamore? i haven't listened to any and then react, respond to her video comment. while some may point 2 with grace in repentance turns into society as some form of making them as

a form of address i quality that makes them want to abandon terrorism and join the normal society. the fact remains that needs a greasy term. his book are a member since it was to say he was a concept of justice. he trivializes terrorism. it makes nigerians feel like there is no justice. what is there is no repercussions for taking part in terrorism. but also let's look at the pain of the victims of terrorism. so many been it is a band on the nigeria. yeah, i mean, i completely agree with the sentiment i don't just is. and the question, i mean sure, sure. just this, if you like to societies, but there are 2 major issues i want to highlight. yeah. number one, just this, in this case it's not straightforward. and that the non duty as western style is just the system. you cannot be any book or a member because they destroyed the villages and the witnesses that would have just

to fight against them. and we know that the nigerian system is very weak in godaddy evidence, especially if you want the police to prove that. and what we have seen is, is this failure by government succeed in convicting a fight as we saw this patient, of course, in kind, gee, where hundreds and hundreds of other members were presented. but at the end of the debate, if you welcome and even those that were convicted in kind of convicted because of the back and they it where they, what they lead to list are crimes like the mechanics. whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, savvy. as because what i'm instead of being charged as fighters, i'm so what they do sentences that were 3 to 5 years or so. and that was because government has no evidence and, and then the system with out before you can it's people that

simply not on the ground. and i tell you this lawyer has been involved in some cases we did defendant. so just that was that were charged me to fight, but i don't know people that were unfairly. i choose a book. i'm the 2nd point is very important, which is around this program being community centered as we speak to did the life livelihood, or people destroyed by book or i'm still not built religious hundreds and hundreds of blades i still does. i said that there are still 3000000 people that i displeased governments a livelihood of months out. agent book. i don't like them coming straight. i want what i've got to number, i mean there are several things one needs to do. i don't want to speak now.

come by with 5 things. who i, we want this program to succeed. i'm going to get your top favorite. not quite yet, because on you cheers. this is the question that is being asked, what happens? what happened to the victims of pucca, her rom bookie. can you just do that briefly? you've been telling us the stories we've in them all the way fry discussion anyway . but to that simple question, what would she reply? you know, the question is, what are hans to victims of or for cobra. them with the effect on them can not be over emphasized to from the education of young girls that can no longer go to school. or even though schools are open and literally afraid to go to school, we men will have been sexually abused. men will have been forcefully conscripted communities that have been shattered. i recall going to the bama idp come and it was one of those early times when they opened the i d p camp. i'm

a literally saw children with leaves literally, you know, popular simply because they are ongoing. and i think this is what my angel after playing to get to if you're doing the integration program and the money that is being spent on the integration program is much more than the money that is being spent in ensuring that the victims of book are actually get the kind of support the need actually get the kind of psychologic out economical, financial support that they need then. so kind of the empty and integration problem is not sensitive to the needs of the people. and young integration that does not by last that is, is actually problematic. and this is not just about seen. there will be beauty in schools all the open in schools. this is actually beauty in life alley beauty in life in was f, the thin social, economic or political, all of those development that either were ignored and led to all of these problems

that we are talking about in the falsely or don't actually make their life better there so many young women that are still an abduction to the over a 100 or 199. and she both girls are still in abduction near. shall we still in abduction. allison god, i still in abduction. these are the names and faces that we know. how about the much more than we that we don't know? so why would we want to be spending that much? all the integration, when angel asked cannot the b, c i what i want to show you this program. i hear what you're saying. it's very clear. but i won't show you this program. so this is ahmed interest. i told you he was born. i stayed earlier on just a few days ago, and he was filming a program that is aimed at the kids a book, a harass. okay. his his story. oh, born and raised in book, what am cams these children are experiencing for the 1st time?

what it means to be a child, to be a part of the 6000 victims and family members of book. what are fighters who surrender to nigerians to georgia forces in the past few months. after a few weeks of psychological support. those helping them are surprised by the rapid trustful mission. they see you see a lot of them coming into desert space looking very distress thinking hungry. what after weeks of engagement. oh, because we can get them for 31. sometimes depending on how we see their wanted ability and all of that, so we up at engagement, you see a lot of changes, you see them interacting better. you see them taking leadership role to see them doing for martha. that's one program for a future for youngsters off to bucko rom. here is fowler who is suggesting a list that you do list for improving these programs for book. all right, have a look at least it's very expensive and says with explore

it says internet, you know, society has to consider tree critical factors. first title, this was a sure risk assessment, individual export. it is very generalized of which the 2nd battle is importance. all of communities acted by duties of x are places. in other words, it community b, which is create a whole session to success of intuition. and then the 3rd factor, which is very often listen, is the need for each and a prospective wonder considers also the role of women and girls because loving me see measures current operations. if so, as is listening in to the frog i but he did that before we started. i should bookie and a lot of allow me, you said you had 55. pretty cool things. i'm going to get your top teeth for

starters. right. how do we reform the reform programs for book are yeah, in the 1st thing is to make them community center. i wouldn't hold it even community based community centered. and when i see company descended, this program has to carry the communities along from the very beginning. i want to status of looking at the very end of the show point number 2. point number 2 is attending some level of peace and stability because as we speak, book item is not as dense as we speak by in that you didn't go month report and the u. n. o 2 d a 172. i was, i know that i'm good and moral and that's what i put into the you and in that you didn't guzman, and that led to all 400000 mostly of children below the age of 5. so it is still going on. you can't, then it's just a all right book,

a final thought here. if you leaving your thoughts all the way for i understand what you're saying about, it's got to be community, community based justice. everything on that. i hear that message loud and clear. job just really unfair me to justice justice modesty. there's one there, but more importantly, it means the shop to grab that is gender sensitive. the putting to cost additional did disproportionate effect of conflict on women and that invoiced them in the entire process of being to glacier bookish on a barring. thank you so much. i thank you so much. billamore mccarty always good to have you on the stream. you give us such insight into some of the difficulties happening in nigerian society. let me show you where to find them. on twitter, twitter pookie is here, and this is for lama. and thank you for your questions. thank you for your

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