society, a un special rough or ter, on adequate housing, travels the world, investigating the global crisis as people are evicted to clear the way for investors and properties too often left empty. push a witness documentary on a just 0 ah and kimbrell and i'll have the top stories on al jazeera and taliban says it's speaking directly to the us about building relations. more than a month after american and foreign forces withdrew from afghanistan. boss in an interview with al jazeera, the tele bonds, foreign affairs spokesman denounced to us drone operations in afghanistan, base their violation of our territorial integrity of afghanistan. it is a blatant and a clear violation. it is against the commitments that the united states of america

made in the doha agreement. that though how agreement clearly stipulates that to the united states and the other countries as well. its allies will not interfere in an internal affairs of for up with understand they are not only by latey their own commitments, but they are also violating international law. ongoing philippine presidents, rodrigo de tirty, has announced he is retiring from politics. he confirmed, he won't stand for the vice presidency a next day as elections, despite speculation to the country. jemila, orlando can, has more from manila, whether the church has claimed that he is going to retire from politics will impact the 2022 elections remain to be seen. that is because there is still around 6 days to go before the ending of the filing of candidacy. and there is still up to november 15th,

where parties and candidates are allowed to switch candidates. this is a multi party system where you can have as many as 76 candidates in a presidential elections where you can have those backing out, supporting another others pledging allegiance, and pulling out, you know, loyalty and alliances at this point is definitely too early to tell and it, what the 30 did today president or the good that there is switching and changing his mind is quintessentially do therapy. this is his political fire. but what remains to be seen is who will field, who will be the administration bed for the 2022 presidential elections? there is still no opposition candidate. and even his former ally boxer manufacturer has already pulled out. so again, it remains to be seen. it will take several months before we truly know who really has a strong chance of becoming the next president of the philippines. george's former president mackelfresh really has spend the night in detention after returning from

exile to support the opposition and elections. it was convicted in 2018 for abuse of power, but 1st it was politically motivated of enforcer walker has more from tbilisi. nobody expected that because seca really was going to show up on the elite, on the eve of these elections. he has in the past stated he would come to georgia this time. he said he would fly in to night. well, he said, surprised. everybody showed up yesterday morning. then everybody was wondering where was he wasn't really here. what impact, what was he going to be able to achieve on the lucent? georgia is a wanted man in any announcement last night that he had been arrested. or what this goes to show is, is how much of an influence this man continues to exert over the george and political scene. a number of people who have died from cove at 19 in the united states has passed 700000 nearly 70000000 people as one 5th of the population have not been vaccinated. the white house says the president and members of his

democratic party have made progress as they try to rescue jo biden's economic agenda in a rare presidential move, bought and met his party members on capitol hill. divisions among democrats threatened his ambitious plans. people are voting and cut out 1st legislative elections. at choosing 30 of the 45 membership council, which was previously fully appointed by cutoff amir, the body can propose laws, approve budgets and recall ministers. the amir will retain veto par rivers of lava are continuing to spew from the cambrai bay ha volcano. in the canary islands, new fishes have been opening up, giving rise to more of options. hundreds of homes have been destroy, and thousands of people forced to leave. was the headlines coming up next is the bottom line. i'll see you shortly. bye bye for now. ah.

ready hi, i'm steve clements and i have a question. after the latest scandal at the world bank. should that institution be trusted and should its plug be pulled? let's get to the bottom line. ah, once upon a time the world bank had an annual publication that ranked every country in the world according to the ease of opening and running a business. and it became a hugely successful and influential annual report. well now it's dead. the doing business report was supposed to be a useful tool for businesses and investors before jumping into uncharted waters. but as it became more important for governments that wanted to attract foreign direct investment, it also became more crucial to be rank highly. plus, there was that prestige element to big rank, highly as an attractive place for business. then boom, a recent investigation found that countries such as china, saudi arabia,

and others, were pressuring the bank to increase their scores. while other countries like chile and azerbaijan were having their scores pushed down for political reasons. so what does this tell us about the world bank and it's other reports. and if the mighty world bank is vulnerable to political and financial pressure, what should we say about smaller institutions and governments that are trying to fight corruption? they were talking with unit kelly, dean of the sanford school of public policy at duke university and author of score card diplomacy, grating states to influence their reputation and behavior, and for breach, you'd are a former officer at the world bank and the office of the un high commissioner for human rights and currently the managing director at out leadership. thank you both for joining me today. and let me just start with unit. can you help us set the stage for what has happened in terms of the accusations that have blown about the world bank doing business report? sure, so the bank started publishing this, it 2004. i became quite an influential report. many countries trying to,

to move up in the rankings that you said, and over time, countries work with the bank on what kinds of reforms can be undertaken. and the pressure, as you've described, has, has built over the years. and there are some countries that have put pressure on the back and in 20162018. there were some, some questions raised about some type of rankings. and last august, it was actually pause to the report was paused, so that an investigation could be undertaker about these 4 countries in particular and their rankings. and now, you know, recently the investigation came out and that way the bank reacted very fortunately . i actually saying we're going to discontinue the report altogether. so that's the stage. mean, well let me ask you for bri, i mean, you work inside of the world bank. what's wrong with measuring one country versus

another? what's wrong with looking at various criteria and trying to establish empirically not only how different countries compare, but what sorts of criteria help a political economy, a liberal market economy move forward. what are the flaws in that, in that formula? well, you know, steve, of course, professor tilly is more suspicious. he's the owner. i'm doing business rankings. but what i believe it's extremely important. call the war bank to make an assessment of the ease of doing business in country the in fact, worse than the war bank and do it. and that's why it's actually extremely unfortunate that the bank are to erase doing business initiative, which a lot of taxpayer money i've been spent to establish because of ernest, the core behavior at the top of the institution. but there is that because of the

fact that the board, which he the $170000000.00 a cost every year did not played so bill side road own issues within your management. and so, you know, i believe that the bang should continue to missouri during business, but unfortunately, because of, of issue during business of a big v as to neither p, it should be mentioned that crystelina, georgia, eva who is 2nd in command at the world bank at the time now head of the international monetary fund has called the invest investigation. simply untrue, ah, how. how much is the pattern that has been written about not only are in those who have been reporting on this case, but you know, the washington post just recently came out and just said, this is a big deal in a fully a full fledged editorial critique of the world bank and said we now have to take the world bank with a grain of salt. as we look at these reports, how much of what we're seeing in the doing business report for brief,

do you think has been part of the problem of other work that the world bank has done? well, you know, i agree with you. it is a huge deal because where did, where did christian to the seriousness of teams did. you should like the world been in the i m f and the truth. you that, steve, you, you might remember that would be to offer in 2007 in which actually i think you kind of played a bit of a road and, you know, think then, thus been discussion about issue the 18th on retaliation of the war bank. and the recent command that mr month by the true president of the bank fed in which he said, well, we are going to have a hard, luke al, could you, i know atx at our issue the retaliation. that's not enough because all of his predecessor of medicine proclamation. and so we have to question issue the child who other shareholder facilities to be at the head with institution. what is the

book doing in terms of oversight? you know, when you have a stitching board, seems like that should not be happening. and so i think it's key to remember that this is not only about doing business. it's about the church of the institution ah unit. you recently wrote a very fascinating, informative piece on a call. what happened at the world banks doing business report and, and to just give your report credit, you know, in terms of responding to the i, m f managing director. ah, madam yoga, you said that she thanked his staff her for doing his quote bit for multilateralism . when the rankings on china were changed and i'm interested in your insights in this because your point is broader than the doing business report is i understand it. your book that, that your studies have shown that these ranking reports always lead to gaming and essentially always lead to cronyism if i'm getting it right. and my understanding your perspective on this correctly. so you asked earlier,

what's wrong with drinking countries and scoring them in different ways? and so i think there's absolutely nothing wrong. and it's actually a good idea. in many ways, i should make clear and i personally have made no comment about the misconduct of anybody in the world bank. i'm not privy to the investigation and comment on anybody's conduct but, but there are so many different ratings and rankings out there that this is really a phenomenon that's growing over the last 30 years. and you know that you a state department, right? countries on how they perform a human trafficking, we got a transparency in me. there's so many industries out there and this is also not the only one the world is doing. and so i think that we have to ask ourselves whether just because something goes wrong in particular report, is that the reason to get rid of all these types of exercises? you know, there's so much information out there we can't consume at all. we can't process it

all, and that's why we love ratings and rankings, whether it's a u. s. news and world report rating. you know, universities are, you know, whether it's the bank rating at the ease of doing business. and it is a way also for organization. sometimes we organizations to try to help define norms around certain things and to put pressure on countries and they see results. and so yes, not, no system is perfect. and there's a lot to be learned from the ratings and ranking systems that can be how a ways of exercising influence in local governments more broadly speaking. well, i mean, i really appreciate that perspective, illinois jump active for free from it. and as you know, the criteria you're asking about can really matter a lot. and some, some have been critics of this process. it both of the bretton woods institutions, the i met the world bank and said that the essentially the values that are trying to be generated often work at odds with far mental issues with labor issues. ah,

we should our works on the broad issues of inclusion and diversity, l g b t q issues across the world. and that if those aren't somehow look at, you know, you can go to michael porter at harvard university, said you want to be a successful fast grow city. those places in the world that are pro l g b t are the ones that do best and you can look at the rankings, but that kind of, ah, comparative scale on labor environment and other issues. at least people have quit, criticize and said they're not robust enough. that's why you had some pressure on countries like saudi arabia, francis for breach your thoughts. yeah, you know, i mean, of course, you know, that i will give you a piece of the high commissioner for human rights. and i believe that the system that the, the g of economies, the chas. so d r a b o senior who require yes for them to make progress on human rights. and you know, i was always very upset to see that cynthia, whether the top of the chopped in doing business,

despite the fact that it criminalizes 10 said relationship. and actually steve bold attributed to stupid society. but one of the thing that i, that i should mention, that there was progress. and in fact, the doing be the business report. as soon as 2016 started including a very prominent gender lends to the doing business. and, and you know, way, it's kind of thought to see that all of this, well, you know, going to good ways because of misbehavior. i'd that had moved institution fast. i, you know, you know, please go ahead. yes. so, i mean, what you're referring to is the introduction of the women in the law into the business rankings. right. and, and we saw a saudi arabia really tumble, for example, when the women in the law right introduced into these rankings. and this goes precisely to the point that these weightings and rankings. we had discussions about value, discussion about what, what matters. and when we talked about the,

the development index, and then we have the sustainable development. it is all about what should we be caring about? and so at the end of the day, it comes down to methodology and transparency and accountability, right? and when you have an index, unfortunately like the ease of doing business that, that i tried to put forward very scientific methodology. then this type of pressures are much more, it's much more susceptible to, to, to things going wrong because everything is being measured precisely as opposed to a lot of other ratings and rankings that use sort of a broad, subjective categories of doing, you know, these are doing realities under performing these are doing great. and so i think this question of norms and up transparency and an accountability, a really important and i'm not sure that i'm not sure that the world that the ease of doing business report is going to be going to waste. i do think your bank will

be looking at other ways of measuring the business, the business environment. and we also now have women in the law. there's a separate index that, that so that's also not going to wait. you let me take this a step forward further because you just re something that i think as the core of something i been intrigued with. and that is, i don't know how to put it any other way. a kind of relative process where america's weight in the world continues to be important. but other nations are becoming vastly more important as well on a relative basis over time. and that means that the values in norms in china matter, the values and norms and india matter, or brazil, or other large, you know, stakeholders in the global system. you can even go to countries as for brief, talked about singapore very small, they're small nations that really hit above their weight that have big impact. we were talking about you a e, for instance, is one of those that influence. so i'm interested in the values tension over the

donor countries, the donor countries that sort of undergird the support for the bretton woods institutions. and to what degree we have a values clash evolving and we have our head in the sand about it. and so your thoughts on that and i'll go to pieces. well, yeah, so i do think we have values class, she normally see it with about road initiative and other things like this and i think back it's very interesting. i studied election monitoring a long time ago and initially all the election monitor organizations for very western bourbon. and then i started to see some russian organizations, some chinese efforts, other efforts to try to present alternative monitoring organizations. and so in the same way in the, in the space around ratings and rankings, i suspect that we will see more and more cases where different countries are taking the lead and trying to, to, to present different values that should matter and rate and rank countries in

different race as a way of promoting their values for reach your thought. yeah, you know, if you read the report, the reason why jim came improve the ranking of china is because he won't china to contribute to the capital increase that you're, the concrete would not contribute to that ships than should he to. and then similarly, the reason why improve the ranking of though your india is because, so you're already paying, rambo said we're technical assistance to the bank. and so one of the, one of the clear thought is that both the european and western country to disengage fine insurance from this institution, it's leaving room to china on other countries to take that place. and then the other thing that i wanted to point out to you is that i mentioned that the board sitting book didn't place oversight roared. and one of the reason is because the quality of the executive director as been declining over time. and the reason why it has been declining is because europe and countries and wisdom countries very

often do not care about those institutions. and so china is coming in and saying, well, if you don't care about these institution, i'm going to feed that back to him. okay, you know, what are the other things have race that you and i have discussed before is that sometimes you have excellent, excellent staff within the system, the bureaucracy of these but the, these institutions. but they're often over on v says that that make them vulnerable to pressure from management that they are held hostage. much like we talk about other in human trafficking, people being held hostage by someone who is essentially of impressed them into service and threatening them with a being expelled from a country or something over their their password. i'm decision with a power relationship is between managers who you've just said are largely derelict in their governance responsibilities in some cases versus the staff who are

vulnerable in raising or challenging ah, the orthodoxies or the instructions are getting from managers. you know, the vast majority of the star 95 percent are incredibly dedicated and passionate people about the issue of development and eradicating extreme poverty. and so it's really sad to see that the reputation and credibility of the institution is being done by the senior management. but as you mention, you know, it's very difficult to dissent in an institution when you would be quickly exposed from the united states. if you dare to criticize a young innovation because of your visa studies. and that there is another element which is crucial is that the vast majority of the people that welcomed the doing business repo where shot them contractor. many people that will not something that would have a contract in the next 6 months. and therefore,

they also could not express dissent. when you read the wilma henry book, it's the atrocious to see the threat of retaliation that are clearly made by the staff of missiles, georgia, and the stuff of prison and keep against anybody that would dare talk about the changing the routine unit. let me ask you a similar question because i think your critique has gone more to the core of these ranking reports. and my question is to you is, is, is because you also said a few moments ago. they don't necessarily have to be this way than other things could be good. is there some way to manage or organize a report that would be resilient against these kind of pressures that had been outed and discussed? is there some formulation that you proposed that would get these kind of comparisons, which for brea said, they're going to happen again. they can play a useful role. but, but you said fundamentally, they become corrupt just about every time. well, the bank of course,

did try to have a firewall. i know many of the excellent people who work on their report and they, they were definitely supposed to be firewall. so that's one way of trying to to do it. but the pressure is, you know, we're talking about countries like china and russia, the pressures i met, not the 1st time they try to put pressure on whether or not they even should be ranking. like 7 or 8 years ago. they were trying to say, yeah, you can have the data, but don't rank, you know, so different. this is a mess. pressure, you know, always is to have these things done by organizations that are not themselves, the powerful organizations that have the member state, per se. so, you know, with there's something that's a small, a fund that has something called a transparent report and they make the transparency of how all the big agencies, a new plan all over the world are how transparent they are with their spending. and

you know, it's very powerful tool, but it's, it's, it's a separate because it's a small and you know, doing it, but nothing is ever going to be perfect. and so i think at the end of the day, we have to say, are these readings and rankings worth it? and then when something comes out, you know, can you find ways to address it and improve it? certainly, united states trafficking in person's report has that political pressures in the past, but it's, it's still going strong and it's important because. 2 it's difficult to exert pressure on countries. it's difficult to get about the types of reforms in human rights in other areas. and if there are ways of saying this country is treating women better, this country has a greater percentage of women in parliament, etc. these are tools that are allowed to get along, and so it is, we hope that we won't throw the baby out with the bathwater and that will take a good look. the ease of doing business with has done a lot of good work,

but maybe it is an opportunity now to look at some of the things that were being measured by the bank. you know, very d regulatory in nature. and many people think that's the way to go, but the regulatory pressure is also has effects on unable rights. for example, i'm environmental issues. so maybe we can take them back in and come to an even better solution. but it's fascinating. you know, i, i, i feel like this discussion is one we should have been having years ago in this way to kind of look at these questions. and i guess, you know, one of the points of interest specs and, and perhaps humility, that i think of as an american america has been sprawling the world try to tell other countries, you know, how to organize that after the 20082009 financial crisis. i think her real questions on america's, you know, a qualifications to counsel about crony capitalism. i think after january 6th, the insurrection in the u. s. capitol, it's harder for americans to talk about how to manage democracy, right? what should be on the rights of various parties within a, within a system,

we're not, we're not trained. that's the u. s. side of this quite equation. and i just like ask you for breeze, you know, in, in, in, in closing, you know, what should our north star b, should we have a kind of, alec heart ism like, you didn't just sort of describe that. we're no longer looking at any political system, per se, as the model, and we need to have an ala carte selection across the board that constantly convey is that the honest way to do this? well, you know, i think a merchant there when i approach that is completely impartial, even this is our right because, you know, this time it was china and so d r a b are applying pressure. but you could imagine that united states doing the exact same thing and therefore it is important that the institution remain impartial. that that. busy that the debate, but don't feel that the bald bleed community that they will rule of all the countries coming together, that they both agree on the roots of the game and,

and therefore, i think, you know, to me, it, you know, it's important to realize that this you know, the end of the world bank or the math that remains critical. but the, we probably have to have a hard look at the church of institution. who do we up pointed ahead of the institution and broader, more importantly, is the stitching board playing it for the side rule? here it, let me just, yeah, please go ahead unit. if i may, i mean these are, does this, this is not the only one out there. i mean, it is, there is a free for, there are many, produces a different rate rankings in the space that you know, competitive, nothing. the heritage foundation as an index, right? and go from there should monitor, i mean, that's many different ones out there and so cultivating a broad universe of different types of measurements i think is beneficial. well, thank you for that. we'll, we'll leave it there for now. but it sounds like we've got more work to do on the, on many of these lists unit kelly professor at duke university of received our

former officer at the world bank in the united nations. thank you so much for being with us today. thank you for this. so what's the bottom line? a lot of people think this world bank scandal is bad news for globalization. why should government do the hard work of weeding out corruption and creating he cannot meekly efficient and fair systems if there's an easier way to look pretty to other countries and big financial power houses? the answer really is that governments aren't that stupid. they always knew that the numbers were prone to manipulation, even if they loved to be in the top 10 or the top 20. the real problems here are hypocrisy and credibility. the world bank is a powerful washington based institution that influences the movement of billions of dollars and constantly counsels other countries on how to properly sculpt their economies and societies. but the world bank is vulnerable to crony capitalism. then so 2 are much smaller institutions and countries. and that's the bottom line. ah

ah, there's more than 12000 migrants, mostly haitians in the camp that sprung up in their real texas over the last 2 weeks. they won't asylum b, u. s. authorities are overwhelmed. this is just the latest flash point in a muslim serge of people are legally crossing the board. and as little in the camp for them, we can see that i told a client of thought they'd get it back in for the time that they went across to mexico to get through. they said there was an affair for them to be there in the car. we met nicholas on the mexican bank to the river, searching for food of medicine for his family. he hadn't realized to we asked him about it. the us authorities, rules are now flying haitians back home. there is no president, crime as high students can't go to school,

there is no work. the economy is down. people can't put up with deportation, is not good for us. ah hi there can val and go how don't stories on al jazeera, the taliban says it's speaking directly to the us about building relations bus. the taliban foreign affairs spokesman denounced to us drone operations in afghan as space as a violation of international law. outgoing philippine president ord rigo deter, say, has announced he's retiring from politics. he confirmed he won't stand for the vice presidency and next year's elections despite speculation to the country to meet alan dog and has more from manila, today's events is actually proved that what.