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coming up next year inside story. ah, it was the algerian nation, the full french conversation. that's the question. french president emmanuel mc crop reportedly asked. the statement has angered algeria, what's behind this? and what does it tell us about france's colonial pass? this is it i saw. ah . hello and welcome to the program. i'm im, ron kon, france,

and algeria have had a complicated relationship for decades. old, a french colonial rule ended in the 19 sixty's. frogs has often been accused of interference, and algeria is affairs, and present emmanuel mc crohn's. recent critical comments about algeria. politics and history are threatening to make things worse. the algerian government has responded to the latest remarks by recalling its ambassador to france and banning the french military from its airspace. french, military aircraft, fly through algeria to reach troops, helping the fight against alm. groups in this, a health, algeria says, microns comments are an inadmissible interference in his internal affairs and an intolerable affront to algerians who died fighting french colonialism. now microns that remarks reported by the french daily newspaper, lemon. it says they were made during the president's meeting with descendants of algerians who fought for france and 1954. 1962 war for independence. mccall is

quoted as saying, algeria is ruled by a political military system, describing the country's official history as having been totally rewritten. while adding, you can see that the algerian system is tired is been weakened by the iraq. that's a reference to the pro democracy movement that ended abdul aziz, beautifully as nearly to decade rule in 2019. he's also quoted at questioning the existence of the algerian nation before french colonial rule. now terry says that more than 1000000 people were killed in its war for independence. it started in 1954 when france cracked down on rebels from the national liberation front, who are fighting for independence. the french government has faced accusations of committing large scale killings, systematic, torture, and crimes against humanity during that conflict. a manual macro, acknowledge some of the atrocities in 2018, but the french government has never apologized to the algerians about its actions

during the war that ended in 1962. the tension where the algeria worsened after france sharply reduce the numbers of visas. a grand st. george earrings, tennessee, and morocco are also affected. the french government blames the nations failure to allow the return of undocumented immigrants in france for its decision. the dispute is raising concerns about france, his relation ship with its other former colonies in africa, including molly chad ivory coast and asia. ah. let's bring in our guests in paris, bruno tetra, deputy director of the foundation for strategic research in doha use. if one del professor of political science and international relations, a cattle university, and in casablanca, adam again, a journalist, and author, welcome to the program. let me begin in doha, 1st with use of wonder use if um,

the former colonizers, whether it's britain, whether it's france, seemed to have very complicated relations, where the former colonized in france is case, what use be a relationship of take take, take very simply put her has been very difficult to re tool particular in modern times to think that's an accurate representation of what's going on when it's almost a credit. i think that over the last 2 years or so did has been po hope that the relations between our julia and france might improve. especially under the leadership of the current president, a manual backlog. he opened up few windows of hope when for his toes. he talked about her colonialism as a crime against humanity in gentlemen. he instructed the benjamin stall on the friendship, eminent professional history of our join descent into the styled some sort of

a dialogue away the undulations and open up the memories at in the hands of so many attorneys who were killed duly to welcome but by the french when he turned to angela, he showed that the show that something stops would be taken to waltz, at least opening up one of the most sensible subjects into love, hate relations between angelica and france, but events over the last couple of weeks. and so to lee, over the last few days, have put everything in jeopardy, but i think they're on julius, we're not expecting a french president micro to come up with these particular statements. and i guess that even the french president did not think, but the and julia would give such a little bust or answer to what they have done by closing the engine as space to

for lunch me to, to re, ah jets, operating in money in paris over a burner trace, is this a simple diplomatic spot, or is it as i guess in the us as a miscalculation of comments by macro that's led to a very serious incident. i think it's somewhere between the 2. just a little bit of context for your viewers. these are courses statements, find my call where actually happened during a meeting and inform meeting with some all french algerians and all jerry and the younger generation. so it was a free flowing conversation. but throughout this conversation, it was clear that mccoy's press a frustration or a disappointment off to, according to him. having tried to reconcile the narratives of french history in all jerry, in history and master. according to him,

having generally tried to make some gestures towards the j and leadership. now his conclusion, his main conclusion, the one that has been that has made it all g as very angry, is that the system, what he calls the system cannot be reformed and that the general. so have the chair in general, has instruments, allies their history to their own political benefits. and that's even though he does have a good relationship with, she's all j and come to father, the president children, presidents. so this was not calculator, but this happens just after the 3 countries, the 3 minute countries aware subjected to new procedures regarding visa going to france. and that included of course andrea. so that probably adding up to, to where he saw his comments or thought of the few days ago, bruno, i just want to confirm your saying that this was, these were off the cuff comments in

a private meeting. can i just confirm the no, i was concerned that these were also cassie moss, but in a semi public meeting is once it's was a speech, but these were not off the record a comments yourself bundle. there were off the cuff remarks, there was simply having a conversation. there's no reason for the algerians to get so angry. all those off the come from remarks are they simply french organs. one of the things that we need to distinguish between to france or to be a group of people having a coffee, a good coffee, a coffee into shante disease, and the french president talking to some youth off on jillian descent, what whatever, michael says, let's not forget that he is deep president of france, and they do not necessarily believe, but they were michael's frustration about the al jillions is due to some,

his frustration about making up some overthrows, get angel in the gym and on jillions are not responding. i think it's much more a serious done but, and to my view, not only in my opinion, it deals also with the french operations in marty. let's not forget that the ongoing government has changed its constitution whereby you can deploy its military for the 1st time since 1973 over seas. despite take a little her article of the constitution was not very, very popular. among onions, a lot of people in virginia saw it as martin by france to get to the under the military involved in muddy last last june. michael said that the operation button in muddy wood and soon and it would be an international coalition day,

expected. the object is to be involved in that and they, well not the 2nd thing that like you're only a guest from but he said he paused to do with visas to a certain extent. but let's not forget, last month, on the 20th of september, my money, michael apologized to the how keys today there was on jillions who fought. we'd france during the elgin wolfing dependence and even decorated some of them. these particular luncheon was not very well received in algeria. i guess not the audience did not want to send it immediately to grab her to muddy in support of the french actions and not resulted in these particular commands which were reported by the mont we'd. she's one of the most influential newspapers in france and into the french drain. well, i don't. okay. i will come to you in just

a 2nd bye when it comes to bruno again, just to get reaction to those comments. what do you think? i don't entirely disagree why i think my question trying to do, but it's a very dedicated balancing act is what he calls the reconciliation of narratives and the reconciliation of memories. so you have the hard copies in false. you have the young people, jerry and french or jerry and, and then you have the relation with the all geron government. so it's a very difficult triangulation. and i think she's actually honest in what he says to each of them. but it's, i may need some possible to this reconciliation. maybe we'll say another generation just pretty comments on the question molly, us so far these questions have been largely disconnected. these, what we do on don't do with all jerry, are in the hell. and there is the question of reconciling the narrative. now,

of course, politics, it's policies and it's difficult both for paris analogies to separate to what i do know for sure is that it has been an increasing frustration in paris for what is perceived rightly or wrongly as a lenient as to choose by. o g is regarding some to how the movements, which are freely crossing the borders. and so the retaliation for most comments which is about it is for getting the over flies of french or german government actually is a very symbolic accent. who recording the message because it doesn't change, right? it doesn't b operations in the cell, but it's a very symbolic act, and it's not the same in any case for the cell. thank you for being so patient adama in casablanca, one of the questions i want to ask you is very simple. a lot of this is

a historical, it's the way the former colonizers of treated the formerly colonized. and there's a lot of accusations that, although actual rule has stopped interference from the former colonizers hasn't. and that's led to frustration and anger on all sides is a right. i think we are in a situation whereby we must acknowledge that despite the military you can read it again to mr. mcgraw. a 4, easy measuring of the country into african affairs is really list to control the military and economic possibilities of the former colonies, west african from countries and of course migrated countries. the fact is that diffusion, or is that in a video, mr. micron is tried to put some points very important across

the inner, oh wait that indicate that there's a wind only whole goals and fix that one here, here is on the one hand, the algerian garland. a indeed, there is a very strong in refusing to merge just talk others in b. i believe mr. macross was even though they are from ahead of state or the owner of the video is controlled by immediately and they've not been allowing people to move 2 of them a decision to move to an economic modernization. but if you're the lead to their neighborhood is to the airport and are proving them for a place, etc. so these are permanent from the union and they need in their own internal

energy is gonna be getting because the country and i mean you compare them with nobody. other issues that are really progressing. and i guess what i get is being done by it's a natural resources, gavin, others that never you done. let me, let me, let me be absolutely clear. are you saying then that, ah, the french president shouldn't interfere in algiers affairs because algeria is a sovereign state and the sovereign state needs to so out's own problems. what mr. ease you better see in a word where people remain behind nation age and it will be a front burgers if iraq is born, you every other, what will be right. okay. and, and also some plan b and a better. but i like it is, but it's, let me, let me adama,

let me put that to our other guests and paris and in dallas, begin in paris. her 1st, a lot of this then is to do with internal politics within france. he micron is soft, is facing a very tough right wing challenge a ter, for in these elections are coming up. there's an increasingly, ah, feeling in france, from a lot of observers i've been speaking to her last couple of days. that what is happening is actually micron is being dragged to the right wing when it comes to immigration. when it comes to visas and things like this. and he's having to play on the right wing playing field rather than a level, a more level playing field. perhaps i think this is not entirely force. and clearly, my call has been, who appeared as a, a center or a center less and censorious candidate in 2016 hasn't b drive slightly to the right. but i would caution those making. so trying to 2nd

guess the governments are the president's actions on that. like i would question anyone about of 2nd guessing politicians, we always suspect politicians to do everything for domestic reasons. well, the may have appointment. this is kind of conversation that was reported by them all. which made a big splash. i don't think you gain team any anything, any points in terms of, in terms of domestic political benefits. again, i think, i mean, knowing a little bit how he operates. i think i don't underestimate that for him. there isn't gender in frustration as not being able to go beyond the all historical grievances biology and now does he make it to color calculations? in addition to that, they have so kosher against putting everything on the forthcoming presidential campaign use of 400. i'd like to get your comments. a guy has said in casablanca,

emanuel macro is absolutely allowed to make those comments about algeria, because algeria has failed in some of his promises to front. when i think i do believe in freedom of speech, and obviously he couldn't make which of a comment he wants to make. and also he into my mind. his comments are trying to make a division within the, under the, in a society in which he said, basically, for the 1st time, a french official described. the pointed to consistent in on july as a political military, a system. this is the worst kept secret in ontario, history. we all know doug immediately in australia has always intervened in algiers . politics. so d. c is not necessarily something new, but we bowed to do she both of successive french governments. they

outcome all the democratic transition in algeria might have been different. the 2nd thing also, when he played to say that to the doctor, this is a difference between the r julian people as a whole. and these morality of aid of france is viewed by the on julian elysium. adel julian, people are not involved in this, and this is, well, i think mr. michael is thought to leap along because if there is anything that all and jillions or almost all on jillions agreed on, is that french has committed atrocities in on julia and how's she bolted successive regimes over the years. and most importantly has provided she bolt for div, but i think

a little the jeans and the have oversold blo texted some of the norman klatera in france. let's we, if you look at all right. okay. i mean, many of the are jillian leadership in france, a living in france and most of the other julian wanting bell. so mr. martin in desponding good little situation is locked in a position to say what he said he is, in my view completely wrong. in casablanca, adama, j. adama, there is, seems to be a disconnect between a leads of se algeria, morocco, shanicea who are very francophone, who are some hold france for french passports are very sympathetic to, with front, to the actual feeling on the streets of people who are almost fed up of this colonial rule that seems to be continuing through their own leadership. what do you

think? is that true? yes, of course. so if you look around her africa from rose to west africa, across the areas where the speak french language, including my own country singer. you have a growing discontent. her friends, she's companies, a business people were and will again, but the political religion of france over those areas. but let's look at the religion. the fact is, 60 years have gone you most of the independent agrees in those nations. the problem can be, guess we're in the door in the front door for us. there is also an in house in general, and the rest are all people. you kind of the brainy everybody. outsiders will be of your products. i feel at this moment was to get it. mr. macro is play politics. you

know that he needs the voice in price of the happiest in the voice of the right. we need the voice of oh, those people that, that 50 or what mrs. le, external read, mr. zillow, exterior, will, our sight lighting to a certain extent, the middle class, we like a general right parties. so easily politics, in the case of africa also he's been east both of him busy, but prime minister of money, of the car at all. no running out on the wheel, winning out to you. and so we are running out of town. i do want to put your point to our other guest, bruno, you are nodding in agreement there to some of our guests in casablanca, his comments. but surely, if there is this anti french feeling that isn't a merging, and african nations french fallen policy is in the wrong place right now, because it's repeating the mistakes of the past. surely, i was only because i was it, it,

it was improving one of the points made by your case, your guess in casablanca, and that is very simply the point that 60 is off more than 60 days after the independence. is it strange to blame the colonizer for all the evils, all the troubles on the trails formerly colonized country, and this is particularly true in on j ever. this also sometimes sure, in the, in the french speaking countries in africa where playing the french when in doubt is a very easy way to synthesize your own responsibility. and i'm afraid that the african elise and y'all, jerry, in a lease or so how to bang themselves from situation of their country. this is, while i was not into i think that the friendship relies are, is always a little bit of a, an easy skate goad. that being said, again, i called a 170 id that my courses not only for domestic policies when he says, for instance, that when he tells a french people of all jury and dissent,

you are as french as i am. not exactly pandering to the stream, right, very quickly use of because we are out of time. but i do want your reaction to that comment. is it just an easy scapegoats? is it just easy for the algerians to blame the french for their own problems? mom did not necessarily i would not agree with him and all true in what to the gentleman from buddies said, but i would not necessity agree with him. 100 percent. let's go buck 30 years ago. for instance, when the democratic transition a and b is long policy, won't the policy could little elections if it was not formed for the intervention, all the french and especially as far as you were union was concerned. whenever the object sion was brought up on the table,

it has always been for the french who defended the r jillian or don't it is a dot polity to little. i am, if it was more thought this, you bought off the french, i would agree that the r julian, transition to democracy and also over the last few years would have been completely different. france course. sorry, we are actually out of time. yes, we are out of time a, but i do want to thank all our guests, bruno trick, you said wendell and a don't. okay, now, thank and i want to thank you as well for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website out there a dot com and for further discussion, go to our facebook page at facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. and you can also join the conversation on twitter. handle is at a j inside story. for me am ron count and the entire team here in doha. i for now. ah,

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