versus clean energy jobs in the state of california. outnumbered 5 to one. today. this does not have to be part of our future. what you're seeing happening in this industry is a lot of the mature and larger companies are selling out to smaller companies. as i said, crews are working non stop to mop up the oil that has gotten into some, some, some very sensitive ecological areas like wetlands. but it is a huge task. and authorities estimate that the clean up will take months. ah, so this is out there, these are the top stories and an earthquake, and pakistan's baluchistan province is killed at least 20 people. it struck in the early hours flattening houses while people were sleep. rescue operations are underway, but the hardest hit areas are hot to access. the world health organization has endorsed the 1st have a vaccine against malaria. it's recommended, jap,

be rolled out to millions of children across africa. the vaccine is 70 percent effective when combined with other treatments around foreign ministers in beirut for talks on lebanon's economic crisis. and wednesday, the liberties army prevented crowds from stormy bank of to be unable to withdrawal cash fuel medicines and basic needs of running critical short. so a lot or has more from beirut, iranian foreign minister saying that they're ready to help lebanon break what iran and its allies in lebanon consider the siege on this country. but in reality, what he is doing is asserting iran's presence asserting iran's control over this country. because he is building on what happened just a few weeks ago. it's a ally, has bala managed to import sanctioned iranian fuel through us sanction syria in the country. now has been saying that the aim was to alleviate the fuel shortages in the country, but there is no doubt that this was

a diplomatic and propaganda victory for hezbollah. and the iranian camp in a lebanon, the un secretary general has demanded evidence from ethiopia. after 7 un staff were expelled for allegations of misconduct. and tony could, tara's intervened in a republic exchange with ethiopia, ambassador, who's calling on its government to allow unrestricted access to deliver humanitarian aid to millions of people. peruse prime minister guido burrito has been replaced along with almost half his covenant just 2 months after taking office . the former president of congress, murder voskus has been named as his replacement. and the time of rising tensions between the us and china presidents, joe biden, and changing ping and now expected to hold talks by the end of the year. top advisors to both leaders agreed to the virtual meeting. after 6 hours of discussions in switzerland, it's not clear yet when the meeting will take place. yet with headlines, more news come up here on out as euro right off,

we go to insight story. more than 30 years after the assassination of burkina, faso iconic liter thomas son got on those charges, he's killing are going on trial among them. his success plays compound. he's the countries loan search for justice, find them coming to an end. the sancho taught special coverage from october 11th on auto 0. energy prices of hit record high is in europe. many families are struggling to pay that power bill. it's triggered protests and even crisis meetings, a b u leaders. so what's causing the power crunch band is the blocks push for renewable energy to blame. this is inside story. with hello and welcome to the program. i'm darren jordan. europe is facing

a worsting energy crisis ahead of winter. gas prices have reached record highs and supplies are running low across the block. well around the world, demand for natural gas and oil is up. as economies reopen off to cobit 19 lock downs. europe has about 3 quarters of its gas in storage, much lower than normal for this time of the year. power bills are already going up . italians have been told to expect a 40 percent increase over the next few months. you finance ministers are demanding coordinated action to secure supplies. the european commission president says the crisis shows the block needs to produce its reliance on fossil fuels and invest in green energy. it is a serious issue. i think we have to be very clear that the gas prices are skyrocketing for renewables. the prices have decreased over the last years and our stable so for us is very clear that with energy in the long term,

it is important to invest in renewables. that gives us stable prices and more independence because gas is important. 90 percent of the gas is important to the european union. when europe relies on russia for much of its natural gas, president vladimir putin is boosting supplies through ukraine. but he says, the e, you can only blame itself what he calls the blocks. historical push for renewables, lonely video will go to the transition to green energy should happen smoothly. and our country definitely has all the possibilities to avoid those mistakes. so we can see where unbalanced decisions unbalanced actions and abrupt movements can bring us today. as i said before, we can clearly see it on the european energy markets. ah, so let's bring in our guess in bern, switzerland, economist, connie la, maya in berlin. andreas go, found professor public policy at the university of 8 foot and in brussels, silver pastor, really

a greenpeace. you climate and energy campaign. i welcome all to the program. connie le, in. but let me start with you 1st. if i may, i'm in minneapolis or saying that this energy crisis is a perfect storm of a number of factors. what do you think is behind the crisis? and how bad is it? a number of factors once the mind is that then especially when you look at gas and maybe also called storage is as know it's, it's been in more than a decade simply because we have very, very cold winter last year. and then we have, you know, we have the, the shenanigans between europe and russia, all gas and politics. and those, the me also have climate change to deal with. we all we, all everybody, including myself, we want to achieve the price, climate change goals. but to get it from here today, and we still need investment in transitional fuels like gas,

and that's hard to come by ways. so people are not investing and the weather is getting cold. so we are in the perfect storm of prices, skyrocketing and the economy is also recovering from a pass code. it sooner pass to really in brussels. i mean, what's your take on this crisis? and i'm, and surely the expert should have seen this coming well at many people levels to said that these crisis is linked to tay renewables, the, to the energy translation. actually, it's quite the opposite to because a funny thing is because the transition hasn't come fast enough on the crisis is linked to our over reliance and on gas. this is the problem here. ease at that. we have a lot of renewable energy online, but actually still a gas is the highest bigot it there on the market, which is actually dictates the price is and it's a, it's what making at people feel the a,

feel the energy crisis in very personally. so let's just stay with that issue of the renewables for a 2nd to bring us address. goto address is green, transition is still in its early stages, which is what the experts are telling us. is there an argument here on risk that the process isn't fast enough? and we need to speed up infrastructure and supply well, you can't go fast enough for right, so in order to fight clone crisis, you could go with, you know, full feed into everything that you can. but i would still say that the european union is going the right way with the european grid deal and, and what the various policies you know, towards the compensation. if you just think about it. i mean, after 2030, we're essentially facing our fossil fuels. we're, we're, we might, we keep gas for a little bit and off along old coil is gonna be gone for a very short time and,

and coal is going to face out in most of the countries within the next decade. so it's not going fast enough, but it is certainly taking up. see coney lemaire is this current crisis? do you think going to derail the transition to green energy and also was the time frame for this transition? just too unrealistic. anyway, what some people would argue to timeframe was to elicit others would say it's going to slow. but i think when we just need to make sure you know, that is the energy transition and there's the climate crisis which we all agree with. but is also a social crisis so, so we need to make sure that in that transition there will be enough energy dilemma from relatively clean sources of fossil fuels, which we still need until we have all that, all that infrastructure invested in them for renewables. and so we need to still make sure that the lights don't go out because what's happening now is, yes,

we have a climate crisis. but at this point we have, we may face a very urgent social crisis where a lot of people with low incomes may need to decide between heat or food and that is not acceptable. yeah, and we'll come back to the issue of vulnerable people who are bit late in the program. so let me come back to you. i mean, how much then does this current energy crisis in europe bring the use green transition on the fresh fruits and, and what does this mean then for its climate policy over all? well, one thing that we know for sure is data as her as other than the program i've already said to you. is it you is going in the right direction? and this is it, this is obviously very good. but at the same time what we know that the targets and the policies that say the you is putting in place on that the big umbrella, the green deal and are not fast enough or not sufficient. they do not match that they'd, i didn't match neither the urgency of the climate crisis nor what scientists are

telling us that we should be doing. there has been huge consensus around at the causes of our changing climate and also on the policy measures that we should be adopting. and these consensus has been deaf with decades. the problem here is that and for the moment where it's not, it's not enough. it's too little we what we treat important is that we also make sure that it's not too late. all right, so, so address, i mean, you know, we're told that natural gas and cold still supply more than something like 35 percent of use total. what rolon does natural gas play as a transitional resource to bridge that gap to renewables? well, natural gas has been called a physician fuel, but as far as i'm concerned and as a bridge fuel. but as far as i'm concerned, it's not a very long range really. you know, we will need gas for the next decade or so. and we cannot phase it out

immediately for a number of reasons, by the way, also including contractual reasons. we're still, europe is still tied into long term contracts, which you can just leave or otherwise would be pretty costly. but i, but natural gas will also pretty much give way to renewables at 2030. and that's maybe not tomorrow, but it's within less than a decade. and that is going to be pretty quick. we're going to faison and blend is renewable fuels in the shape of renewable gases. how takes technologies, green hydrogen. these kind of things that will sooner or later, also eat into the margin of natural gas in the heart of the carbon sector, such as a new new steel, the heavy industries. we're talking about green steel these days already. and that's precisely where a lot of gas will still need it for the next decade, but not much longer. alright, so address, you seem quite optimistic about the transition itself. i mean, cornelia,

if renewables then not sufficient yet to dump and demand, do we need to face this harsh reality? i guess that that co and dirty energy will be with us for some time to come to fill that energy gap. i say, yes we do is the matter here is to make sure that this is little girl as, as possible. and as much as be clean, if you always use gas as possible. but you know, there is such an enormous, enormous investment required to get from here to an 80 and we all again we on to go to ne cyril's man is enormous investment, re cry it. so in the mean time, we need to make sure we transition so that the lice don't go out and the so silly vulnerable, don't suffer an address. let me just m touch on the issue of how you think russia views this energy crisis. i mean, we saw a quote earlier on from the russian president vladimir putin. i mean, the fact is,

europe does depend on moscow for much of its gas, but is russia using the crisis for geo political leverage? um, and it wants to get nordstrom to up and running anyway, doesn't it? well, you're, you're touching on, on, on a very important point here. me. she, to 6 of his maladies, to russia's hasn't done anything wrong. they have supplied the context that they're supposed to supply. the problem is they haven't done much more. so typically over the summer, what goes from does a stay refill the storage of europe. and for that, they book a lot of additional capacity in transit pipelines for ukraine and, and other countries and added on this, which means we're now at what $76.00 the center. so our storage being filled up and that compares about 90 percent on average, that we typically have them every year. which means now the russians are using this to make the case for supplies. security being insured by way of bringing online

will stream to their pipeline. and which is the theories thing, it's complete it, but it is, it is not operational. yes. so there was just a novice into suggesting and implicitly, and were more explicitly that in order to avoid a supply crunch the upcoming winter, you better make sure the european regulatory authorities back is driven regulatory authorities better. make sure that's happened becomes a racial ramos to make of it what you want. it certainly is about, you know, politics. it is not necessarily about market behavior. yeah, that's an interesting point. you make a pastor really an interesting quote from the russian president vladimir putin. blaming the crisis on the e was what he called hysteria over transitioning to green energy. presumably, putin doesn't want to see a quick transition to renewables, and he makes more money with natural gas as i was saying earlier, and it has actually nothing to do. we do with the transition to tour

a new way to system. if anything, the problem is actually the opposite because we do not have a we have, we're not transition in fussing us. and it's over reliance on gas and gas infrastructure that has put us in the situation. and at the more money we will keep pouring into into fossil fuels, the more likely we are to face this kind of crisis in the future. monday. it's a, it's really important that we really move the investment in, in a different direction. and here it's where i would like to defer a little bit from what craned. it was haine. it. it's very important that we send this very strong signal that philosophy subsidies need he any to be phased out very fast. because as we all know on resources of all kinds, economic resources, either not an infinite pied, it can be divided to coretta and it, it's reading for them for the market to see as well, where the, where the resources should be put in. on default, subsidies need to be phased out and this money needs to be put into renewables,

but also to storage into batteries, into interconnections and, and so on and so forth. as if this, i think, is it is really of primary importance right now. let me just get a quicker response from cornelia about the russian aspect before we move the debates on, i mean, russia is suspected of slowing down. it's existing gas applies the list, just come out and said, no, that's not the case. if you're playing policy, it will russia with ice of us all, both. yes, playing politics with each other. you know, the relationship between europe and russia is not a happy one to relationship between russia and many of the of the western world is not a happy mom. so they're playing politics with each other and, and, and, and it is an element of russia playing politics, but there's also an element of a lot of money having been invested in. no, it's been to not just from the russian side, from the european side as well. as but it, well really coming back to the renewables,

we all investing in renewables. and if you look at the strong guidelines, it's very high for banks. let's say this time to invest in upstream development. so oil and gas so, so the money is flowing in the right direction and he should flow in that direction . we just need to make sure we get over that hump. and we also need to get a little bit west in europe centric, less western europe century. because when you don't go to, you know, athlete time, other places where people need mobility, they may not have the money to invest in all that an electric vehicle infrastructure. so we need to make sure we keep the we still electrified and power. * whilst we move on that fast speed towards energy transition and risk, let's just move the debate on quick and talk about emissions. i mean, what impact do you think the energy crisis then? we'll have on you admission commitments?

i mean, if renewables on foss enough and colon gas as you say, a plug in the gap, how is that like it? and to play out next month, clock $26.00 in glasgow. well 1st of all, i say, you know, the current crunch that we're talking about is, i mean, it is not great and it's difficult and it will affect the most vulnerable people across europe and elsewhere. but i would still say it's temporary, it is something that will go away after you know, a couple of months when the markets will change again. well, when we're going to have a soft, the markets. and so we probably don't have a lasting impacts on, on gas markets at the energy markets more generally the, i mean it's, it's hard to predict the future. but what we have seen from that mc rady is that even a major, a major economic crisis does not put in, you know, does not do away with the structural reality is all the energy markets which are

hard wired into energy infrastructure and long term energy investment so what you gotta do is you've got to put structural breaks into that system and, and even a major, major crisis, did not do that. because what we've seen is that the, the greenhouse gas emissions over 29th of 2020, they did considerably. but the picked up until the end of 20. 20. precisely, that's what happened before. and now they're picking up again and above previous levels. so we haven't learned that in essence really we haven't gone where we should have been, which is learn the lessons from 2820 or 29 when we have a huge different greenhouse gas emissions. but then it went all back to the normal . we should have put the money more we're we're, we're climate policies are european 50 european state. some other countries did not to us, did not the china did not. and others didn't either. which means overall on a, you know, on a global scale i'm, i'm almost pessimistic. for,

for this small crisis that we're seeing here, having to have a lasting effect of putting structural breaks. and let me, let me just put that point that according to bay, i mean, call me know what does this all mean then for the use climate commitments? does this crisis put yet more pressure on europe submissions? well, i think that i think that, you know, this is very, very, very, very clear on the car and the guidance of mrs. on the line that the green deal is really, really important. and they want to, they want to become the 1st met 0 continent in the world. so i think in co day will really i view for, for, for you know, for focus for going down. the reality is how do we again, i'm a pragmatist. how do we get from here today? yes, we are pouring the investment in there. absolutely. you know, you know,

i would guess this is right that we, uh, we are hired in a certain way. but, you know, once investors have put a lot of money in something, it's hard to, to go against that reality. especially if you want them then to invest in something else. because they want to have some certainty of bearing with their investment. but if i look at the investment criteria, especially of my job banks and of all the big, you know, an asset managers, they are really driving towards net 0. so if anything, the oil and gas companies are seeing a very tough time getting money in. all right, so we look to the picks in europe. let's look around the rest of the world. if you can just briefly, i mean, prices for natural gas now reaching record levels, sylvia posterity. what does this mean? do you think for developing countries who are struggling to restart their economies in a post covered world? i think there's a few points as us have we have already quite touch upon in the conversation that are very 4th. and 1st of all,

is it is talking about the people who are most vulnerable and we're talk, we can, we can talk about people who are most vulnerable, both in europe, but also elsewhere. and thinking about the, the at energy crisis and the price crisis right now. it's absolutely important state government having place, plans full. those were at most risk of, of energy poverty. and i think this is a valid point in general, even beyond europe as well. and 2nd i, i think this is also even more crucial for you for outside europe. at the point of where we are, signaling debt being best meant is worth making and debt. and what is why it was mentioned earlier, the point of around the foster if you subsidies and that needs to be faced out because this continues to send the wrong signals in europe, but also elsewhere. because if you keep pouring money into a, into the st. francis fossil gas infrastructure, we will only end out okay. especially in the face of climate policies and climate

crisis would only end up with stranded assets and we're locking in more and more emissions at witnesses a value. the think this is volley for both europe and, and outside and as europeans, i think, to stick up is a perfect opportunity for us to make sure that we provide support to those outside of your county. i see you nodding your head there. i mean, we're already seeing rolling electricity blackouts in china, energy companies going bust in the u. k. is this a warning? do you think the rest of the world why didn't want to do the rest of the world? i would especially look at the, at the developing world because we need to make sure we know the developing world. i think so. there's absolutely right there. we need to make sure that we help the, the developing world with the help of the cop twitter the purchase agreement and you know, funding mechanisms and we help them invest in the face. but we also need to make sure that we get over to the lights, don't go out while we're doing all the right thing. so we may need to live for

a little while longer with the cleanest off the off of the fossil fuels to ensure that people still have mobility have heating. ha wanted a neat yeah. address. let me ask you this. some ensued or touched on this issue of vulnerable people. i mean, many vulnerable people have already been hit by the economic impact globally of corona virus. now they face spiraling energy bills. what does this mean then for ordinary people, or what should governments be doing to help them? well, governments can do a lot of things, and we've just been through a major can on crisis. so most of the means that we have at our disposals dispos there are tested and we know how they work. in the end it can be anything from rebates to texas. auctions to simply checks being sent out to people in portable households. probably. so some priorities need to be made, you know, to targets on the one hand,

some of the industries that are important to keep and to keep running because they'll supply jobs to people. and on the other hand, to, to make sure the social impact of the current crisis does not adversely affect the most vulnerable. so there are some calibrations to be done, but i think the other thing that, that we need to make sure is that we in the end start saving energy. i mean, this is the one thing we cannot do now is take her with the supply side. there is not going to be a lot of more gas coming along, nor can we just leave content policies and bring callback in. so what she, what you can otherwise, you know, the strategy of stringency of climate policies put in question. so what you've got to do is you got to take, or with the demand side, conservation measures are important here, and then you've probably got to pay a little ok, we're going to have him all winter konita. a final thought from you. when to foss approaching in the northern hemisphere, how do government then help the most vulnerable in society?

i mean, many people simply cannot afford to pay the energy bill. yeah, i need to subsidize what i need to do, how much we don't i agree with. so we always, we shouldn't subsidize any us, but we may need to subsidize, may, may need to get them transfer payments because we can, especially in europe in the development. i see the world we cannot ask people pensioners out people weak. people asked to choose between food and heat that's. that's just, that's not right. but i think we also need to look for that. we need to look when we need to do an energy conservation. absolutely, that's the low hanging fruit. and we need to look at all the technology when we produce c, c, u, s, and august, carbon capture usage and storage, and all of the green hydrogen and all of those things. all right, we have to leave it there. thank you very much to all our guests. connie la in bern, andreas golf out in berlin and silver pastor, really in brussels. thank you very much indeed. and thank you to for watching,

you can see the program again any time by visiting our website, al jazeera dot com for further discussion. go to our facebook page, that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. and you can also join the conversation on twitter. handle is a j inside story. for me, darren jordan, i'm the whole team here. good bye for now. oh. on air or online, be part of the debate or pacific people. the ocean is our identity and the source of well being weak are the ocean when no topic is off the table. it's a shooting site atmosphere. people are demoralized, they're exhausted, and many health care workers are experiencing p t s d like symptoms jump into the stream, enjoying a global community of hill on right on youtube right now. you can be part of those

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