and ewing to spew love after it began erupting nearly 3 weeks ago. 6000 people have been forced from their homes more than a 1000 buildings have been destroyed. la palmer's islands airport remains closed last week. the spanish government pledged $239000000.00 to help the island recover from devastation. ah, and let's take you through some of the headlines here now. j 0. now. senior u. s. and taliban officials are due to hold talks in cutter. it will be the 1st in person meeting since american troops left afghanistan. i sole is high on the agenda after a suicide bomb killed 60 people and couldn't do it on friday. that actual name has more from doha. expectations should be tempered regarding a breakthrough because at this juncture, it appears there still quite

a chasm between what the us wants and what the transitional government in afghanistan wants. the united states is simply framing this meeting as, quote, a continuation of pragmatic engagements. it's had with the taliban on matters of vital national interest. american interests. i should note. the number of people in brazil killed. why covey 19 has surpassed 600000. it's the 2nd highest death hole in the world after the united states. about 600 people are dying a day, but that's down from a peak of 3000 in april. the u. s. has announced little except fully vaccinated visitors as long as they've received jabs approved by the world health organization . the new rules will come into effect in early november. chinese president, she ging ping, says piece full reunification with taiwan will happen soon. he spoke at the ceremony marking a 110 years since the end of imperial rule. taiwan has come under increased

military and political pressure from china to accept it. sovereignty iraq's prime minister must awful carver me, says he'll do everything he can to ensure fair elections. a parliamentary vote is being held on sunday. the election was one of the key demands of an anti government protest movements. she began in 2019 the u. s. at mexico are promising to increase cooperation to reduce migration and violence. us secretary of state antony blinking has been in mexico to work out the details. google is welcoming a deal agreed by $136.00 countries to impose a minimum tax rate of 15 percent on multinational companies. it's aimed at discouraging business giants from declaring profits in low tax territories. it's inside story now. talk to al jazeera, we ask what gives you hope that it is going to be peace because this situation on

the ground seems to be pointing otherwise we listened. we were never on their. 3 whatever road to off migration we meet with global news makers and talk about the stories that matter on al jazeera. a dispute is growing between molly and france. paris is accused of abandoning vanco. it's fight against on groups and this a hell legion. russian mercenaries were expected replaced french soldiers. so what are the risks? this is inside story. ah . hello, welcome to inside story. i'm adrian finnegan. a spat between the french and malia and government says, threatening to derail an already fragile alliance against armed groups in the south region of both africa. last month, molly's interim prime minister accused france of abandonment,

over its decision to reduce its military presence in the region. french president emmanuel mccaul, called the comments unacceptable and later disparaged the molly and government's efforts to secure parts of the country. on tuesday, molly summoned frances ambassador, had expressed indignation over mccombs woods. tension between the 2 countries was high before the route. after reports that molly was in talks to hire a russian mercenaries for security lavelli, she designated a new situation resulting from the end of operation. marchand puts molly before fait accompli with the abandoning us mid flight to a certain extent, and it leads us to explore pathways and means to better ensure our security, autonomously, or with other partners. so as to fill the gap. mm hm. which will certainly result from the withdrawal of the french that operation in the north of the country. did get or macklin responded to those comments. saying what the molly and primate, as the said is inadmissible. it's shameful. and it dishonors what is not even

a government. the molly and prime minister was born of 2 crews. there was a qu in august 2020, that a qu within a qu, the current government, he said, has 0 credibility. so why has france a former colonial power in marley been fighting there for the last 8 years? well, the current crisis began in 2012 with an armed uprising bi separatists in. molly's north, that created unrest that led to al qaeda and i still linked fighters spreading out across the ser, held in january 2013 french troops began a mission to rid molly of rebels that expanded into the ongoing operation by con, targeting groups. across the sa hell, despite french lead efforts, smiley and neighboring countries like this year and burkina faso of struggle to contain armed groups. and in july, france announced that it would draw down its presence of 5000 soldiers and end its operation. early in 2022, or molly's faced international criticism over reports that is to recruit 1000 wash

and mercenaries known as the wagner group. the soldiers for hire have reportedly operated in conflicts, owns like ukraine, syria and libya. french and u. s. officials have warned marley's leaders that the group is more likely to further destabilize security. the wagner group has an estimated 2000 contractors in the central african republic. they've been accused of rights abuses and exploitation there. ah, so let's bring in our guests for today's discussion. for bri, spotty is chief strategy officer rasmussen global he joined my skype from st on there a big way. a greg who is a security analyst at our for politico and he joins us far skype from a buddha and from washington dc withdrawn by andrew leibovich policy fellow at the european council on foreign relations. good, good to have all of you with us gentlemen. let's start with you andrew. so as we heard, president micron says that molly's government has 0 credibility. is he right?

and what's his reasoning for saying something so controversial so publicly? what, what does really come from is a lot of frustration. i think that's out just in france about the, about the behavior of molly's transitional government and the fact that their signal multiple times that especially recently that they are planning or likely planning to extend the transitional period past what the international community agreed to. and i don't think it's a super fair to say that they have no credibility, but certainly there's a lot of frustration in the region and in the international community about the transitional government and about trying to figure out what they're actually doing . particularly amid these are these reports of negotiations for the arrival of russian mercenaries in the country. ok, for brief, just remind us why is france reducing its military presence in the region? simply because it's not sustainable. we have had,

we have more than $5000.00 french forces deployed in the region and both the death toll but also financially it's not sustainable. and at the same time you see, i think pretty mediocre results in terms of containing the g had these threat. so i think there has to be a moment that kind of decision point and clearly put it on my call. i've made some decision to towards a progressive withdrawal. however, to come back to your previous question, he's also in a difficult position and i think that's why he's increasing the pressure on the original government because he needs those governments to be more solid and more reliable in order to take over what the french forties are doing and that's, he's pretty common right now. is he doing that though, by, by accusing money's government if having 0 credibility? well, i think he's also reminding that basically there security is to a large extent depending on the french presence. so they have to think twice before

basically not waiting to be able to pay their role and get this done. and the withdrawal from a can, this was, it was a pretty shocking case for everybody. both defense because if you will go to 5, you will have a complete collapse, but also for region of governments that they depend to a large extent of on forming forces that the french so it's a complicated, basically embrace of both the regional and the french leaders who are depending on each other and i think mccoy's trying to play the top of it. great. ringback french troops warmly welcomed into molly back in 2013 when militants were threatening to seize control of the whole country. molly's government is unhappy right now with the draw down, or at least in which the, the way in which the draw out has been announced. how the people, though, in molly feel about french troops that they've not brought peace and stability to the region, that's all they know. they haven't. the context has changed when we look at what we

talk about french intervention of friends conduct their vision in with regard battery in molly it, it has to be the next question is on that what context the context was completed when there was the error trade to this did, or no few of frank joe, the us to the it's a little bit different or this you can find a different enough to see that the response then was of course, the people wanted the status to be, you know, to be, to get that function in because of the of why because of john denver now what you have is something that in 202021 very lackluster results on on the ground. jad, he's in ms. green across the sale. interesting. interesting. a molly. and then we did with the, with recent protests you would see on the streets, you know, many miles within your garage on flag,

just so should discontent with. busy regard to french at present also even before the qu, they was major protest against a black kit kit, tardy from our president would put in new york who and in those protests, of course you could, you could test the content on the streets, you know, off of miley, so we'll talk, comes down to different the lackluster results on the go from a different intervention that are no longer on the streets. that discontent is now in the decision making in the air corridors of molly andrew has frances intervention and molly been a failure. i don't think we can talk about it as a failure, especially because it's impossible to know what the situation would be. a french courses weren't in the country and in the cell. i think what we can say definitively is that the security situation is not better. the, the presence and the influence of g, how to scripts has spread in various parts of the country. there's also been

a breakdown of commuter relations and a rise of self defense. malicious are further increasing the power and presence of self defense measures communal, malicious. so in that regard, certainly things are not better. i don't think it's necessarily fair to frame in terms of failure or not, of france alone. in part because france the lead to the offensive military actor from the international community. but there's also a significant other presence, including of the, the un peacekeeping force, you training missions and capacity assistance building and others. so it's not quite the right framing return, that security situation continues to get worse. not just molly, but across the region. it will, will expand on that in just a moment, but 1st, a brief going back to what a big where was was saying just a few moments ago i got the feeling that, that some people in molly would, would actually be pleased to see the back of the, the french troops would, would some, their, prefer a negotiated settlement with the middle militant,

so chief piece through negotiations because of course, france as flatly refused to, to negotiate. it's just, it's something that it won't countenance. i mean, of course i cannot speak for the local population, but what is true is if you look at previews or current conflicts, you always have to come to a point where you bring in some element from rubber groups into a government of national reconciliation. now the question is whether the french diplomacy phrase, diplomacy has been doing this work to have the element from the rubber good to can be brought in under our government. and obviously excluded dos that, that to extreme needs to be brought in. and whether the local government itself is willing to embrace that and but i think when you look at that, get this done to reach the position from false like the u. s. in the case of denison will mean that the robot could actually get some ground and ultimately actually take over the country. so i think you need to consider some kind of

settlement at some point. okay. and of the way you want to pick up. so, you know, to get agreement, are there relevance within the rebel groups that could be brought into some sort of depth of national reconciliation and what the current regime in bama co allow that yes, i agree because the constellation is inevitable part of conflict resolution. can we cannot on dice mid the, i believe the power dialogue when we're looking at the demand context. you have, it is a center govern, a central government that is struggling to unite the country. and the most of these militia, they are not, not all of them are clearly ideologically driven. so i'm shared gen new discontent towards his teeth because of law on the development or issues, not related to terrorism, also to ideal ideological machination. so i think it's very important going forward

that we have to re emphasize the importance of a dialogue with, with our friends like it or not. i don't think france should be daunted. so with that it should be dialogue molly or not. that remains the prerogative of my reality does to as themselves, if it stand for dialogue. and if you look at the indication, even going back to a albuquerque does government, there was already knew a movement in that direction to see how we can unite. but rebel, lead us politically, does that mean just does, who think mileage should be? move in a particular direction, a way from conflict, and it's time that would begin to go back to those 2 and to those moves towards in odella without, without the french wants to log in. in molly, i don't think i should, that should really stop. it should define without my, my legally moves. there was a dialog, cassandra, muddy the waters even further. here is the potential presence of russian mercenaries on the ground in molly that what they succeed, where, where france and,

and the children study and forces currently serving there have failed. and what are the strategic risks to having non state actors working in such a highly volatile region? why i think there are a number of potential risk. we should start with that because 1st of all, for france, you and other partners have made quite clear that they see a potential russian mercenary presence is incompatible with their own presence in their own operations in molly. but then beyond that, also, 1st of all we, we don't have much information about what the outlines, the potential deal would be, what a potential deployment of brushing mercenaries might look like. but certainly looking at the track record in media in both and peak in the central african republic. we see not only that, these forces have not always been particularly effective, but they've been quite brutal in many ways in their treatment of civilians in particular. so i don't think there's any indication that even a large deployment of russian mercenaries would be able to somehow fix the,

the problems in molly, in ways that international deployments in, again, in partnership with falling courses has not been able to do. the problems are elsewhere. it's not just a question of more or less effective military forces, but even then there's no indication that we can see that russian mercenary forces would be more effective or the better suited to dealing with the, the very complicated threats in modeling for brace. the british foreign office is described that the wagner group as a driver of conflict which capitalizes on instability for its own interests. is it right and where is this this relationship come from? does? does molly have historical links or an ongoing relationship with russia? i figured the following office description is pretty accurate. if you look at the track record of the vac, nor grouping ukraine, ca, libya,

they have brought more violence including on and especially on civilian population, which will not forget that they often back the, the strong man which is not always in the interest of stability in those regions and they're often actually produced a radicalization or polarization of the conflict as we saw force operating syria. so, so i do agree with the british frame of his description. what they give our, or not just to, you know, some business menu are investing in those missionaries, but the way they get to the russian government and to let me put in is a talk into a bigger game. basically a seat, a diplomatic seat at the table. this is what we've seen in the b r, where now you have to count with russia. you cannot settle the conflict in libya address. busy the different, you know, grievance fees of the various groups. we've all russia helping,

and i think this is what he's doing. so for a minimum price, we, for lots of deniability, he can gain to actually see that the, at the top table with the big powers. and i think that's what their strategy is because, like you say, i don't think russia has historically some extensive interest in the part of the world, but by itself, a seat for relatively low cost of what impact with the presence of russian mercenaries have on the regional military partnership between molly, at its neighbors, to tackle the militants, the jazz foreign minister said that that agreement will collapse if, if russian must resolve on the ground in money as he right. no, i don't, i don't think he's right. we have to look at the fact that the immediate, the immediate reason or the immediate sparks wagner will have in mind is regime security. that's very, very important and cannot be kind of missing from any analysis it we were looking

at it government a june 3rd, that's the hardest lead i'm was assassinated not long ago and that fit fit. our talk definitely said of consent was secure, is all security. and with wagner, well, you've seen with in sent africa republic, we can actually provides regional security pin not secured for him on senior official. that's one more in broader regional context of call to see the child the and i've spoken against what wagner puts a 4 in reference as they call it. well, it is a jasa lesson child yet child consent comes from the fact that when a former president debbie was killed in april in details came out to see the nearby militia that we present was fighting. where to a train back by wagner. so that, that consent for the child is there. yes. at the for the fear that will give that this group might proliferate around child is there already. there it isn't. i've

got a public, anybody continue to chat, but we have to look at my leave. why? miley itself wants to, wants to bring in wagner, and it comes from the fact that molly has not done so very right to said we partner's wheat ball. so wants to see if there are options to be able to solve the problem without wagner can solve the problem. i think it's the, i don't think they can solve the problem. they had problems in, in mileage, very complex. but of course, the kind of part of conduct there is more of a way that at the regime, i feel a little more secure with them in the country. they're not going to be enough of them to replace the current number of french troops. there were people in marley feel any more secure if, if russian mercenaries with, with their honestly, it wouldn't really matter. way people see secure it would be whether they are able to deliver on what it, what the objectives are. if,

if it's to expand to dirt that the tutorial integrity of, of my last did, of course, that would definitely piggyback on some form to improve confidence in growth as me goes on necessarily wagner. right. but the, the risk here is no in flu and nobody knows how france is going to respond if that get us an error, the withdrawal or if, if, if i, i hill, does my, my little expulsion of molly or some form of complication within the region. i response because they're melissa, they did not consult with regional regional countries in the lead up to 2 disagreements with this. a very unilateral agreement to combat the problem that is regional. so that lack of coordination is why anytime in the analysis of sales occurred to wallace in, we have to find ways to do better coordination. or andrea should neighboring countries be nervous at the prospect of russian mercenaries operating nearby and potentially on their territory. in the case of dish arabic, in a fashion,

certainly, i think there's some reason to be concerned about this, particularly given the way that that one group has behaved in other countries. and given also the fact that there is a reasonable concern about the impact that this would have not only on civilians but also on potentially implementing the uncertainty further given the behavior of these forces again in other conflicts. i also think that part of this is that for the regional countries, there's been a long process of a trying to put in place, not always easily. or we've been trying to put in place different international cooperation frameworks for resolving conflict or for dealing with the conflict and so and then any rapid change in that, or a departure of the international community for molly could have some benefits to regional countries, especially in the chair, but could also disrupt a lot of this work and disrupt a lot of the networks that are in place. and i think that it also proved quite

complicated to navigate and we're rapidly running out of time here. but less than 2 minutes, if you could answer this question whether it's a big question, what needs to happen to bring peace and stability to the sale region? that's not really a question you can answer it in 2 minutes. and if i, if, if i knew then i think i would've, i would've been as a baby think that there does need to be a much more persistent focus on the needs of the needs of selling communities. and the politics are all this, these are, these are not military solutions are not economic solutions to these conflicts. alternately, many of these conflicts are, are political and have to be dealt with through a political lens through political processes that are, that are inclusive and where the interest really can support regional and local initiatives. i think that's how we can, we can start to get on a better path in the region. and for brief,

coming back to something that you were saying a few moments ago about russia getting a seat at the table relatively cheaply. what are the political and security costs to europe, from all of their songs, from what's going on in the south region right now? well, the obvious cost is to have a potential terrorist threat on europe in national living in the region, but more recently or so on europe, in territory, even though that trade has been remote lately which can be regarded as one of the small measures of success of the french intervention, the other, the other costs, which i think we see almost every day on tv screens these you by not having stable governments by not having controlled borders. you do have a significant, illegal migration flow going from the to, to europe. which politically is, as you know, vague or traverse, show,

and plays in a very toxic way and the domestic political debates. and don't forget that the france is going to vote for a new president next year. so i think these are the major cars. however, continuing on the same basis as now has also its costs in terms of human cost, death, toll of french showed years and now the so years and also financial. so i think this is, they feel like that we have to walk here is to do less, but not to do nothing. a big way we say time is, is terribly terribly tried here. is this something that the military lead government in molly consoles, or is it something that's going to have to wait until that is a democratically elected civilian led government? this occurred, this is the situation in my lee and across the side is so that we can't make it a issue of democracy or no democracy can. so whatever government is in place, there is something that can be done today tomorrow,

next more immediately. so what i, what i spect molly to do is try to work more closely with the regional government. i know the con, the dynamic is different because it's a cool go. and nicole was final point because it's not government, but we have to look at the solution, a real regional response that is truly regional, not a friend lead response. i defy which are fields. but one that i really expand to include all of the players, individual equities or wires, and then you are not part of the coalition to combat terrorism in, in, in the continental part of the continent where most of the values we've seen across more country. so molly can solve this problem, but it will need to do better to coordinate with his neighbors. that gentlemen, i'm afraid we're going to have to leave it. we're out of time. thank you very much indeed for being with us for pre support gay of the way i go. and andrew leibovich as always, thank you for watching. don't forget, you can see the program again at any time. just by going to the website. you'll

find that at our 0 dot com for further discussion. you can join us on facebook page that's at facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. and you can draw the conversation on twitter handle at ha, inside story. for me, adrian. again, the whole team here and thanks for watching. i'll see you again. on kathy, the cost is the world to dependence on coal. and our invest is about to get a bailout venezuela, launching the digital volleyball, and attempt to revive its currency. and back to the seventy's this time placing, making an unwelcome return. counting the cost on al jazeera, after decades of conflict between successive colombian, governments, and the fox marxist gorillas and historic peace accord in 2016. so fighters lay

down their arms 5 years on a mit rising defense and fruitful police repression. a new cycle of violence has robbed the nation. people in power, if the agreement is failing and what's next for the country. columbia, killing the piece on al jazeera. i prefer to see things for myself to look at things, not through the lens of politics, but through the lens of humanity. oh, i've been to the playground where to me or rice was shot and killed. i've been to the streets of ferguson o at protest. i've seen the anger and frustration of so many americans, but what was most clear was a desire for change. you could see black lives matter transforming from hash tag to a movement. ah, being

a journalist is about listening to people and understanding where they're coming from. following a story, no matter how long it takes or where it leaves. i'm christian salumi. ah lou, senior u, as in tom about officials prepared to sit down for the 1st in person, talks them tomorrow because afghan withdrawal. ah, i'm sammy's a dan. this is al jazeera alive from dell hall, so coming up a staggering loss. corona virus, deaths policy 600000 in brazil, china's president, she vows peaceful reunification. taiwan insisted future lives in the.