in russia, incomes a falling or have been stagnant for years. ah, the permit to describe these boxes. glad it's oil is certainly very pleased with effectively releasing anger and frustration. several fighters were knocked to the floor while we filmed, and at least one left in an ambulance. but the organizers claim it's less dangerous than gloved boxing, whether a more punches. and so, more risks of long term brain damage that i'm not a russian doctor told al jazeera any strike to the head is dangerous, and could cause out time hasn't other life threatening injuries as for what the fighters earn. no one would give us a figure. only say they're paid handsomely for all the blood. they spin, bernard smith, al jazeera,

moscow. ah . these are the top stories at half past the our senior us and taliban officials have begun talks and cutter. the 2 sides disgust, aid and getting covert vaccinations into afghanistan. the taliban delegation will later meet with you representatives, mo, from natasha. and i am here in jonah. there has been a concern among the americans. that distribution has not been flowing smoothly. that female aid workers have not a lot been allowed to do their jobs unimpeded. they did not elaborate, the afghan doubt delegation that is on a just what was discussed with the americans. the americans are not going to divulge. ah, according to a spokesman, i heard from a short time ago any details while the talks are ongoing. but the delegation assured that it will work on the distribution of humanitarian assistance. at the

headlines in a you and refugee office in libya has been false to close enough to being overwhelmed by hundreds of people seeking re settlement a day earlier. around 2000 migrants escape to detention center in tripoli. ethiopian forces of launched a new round of air and ground strikes against to cry. rebels in the m horror region . the to grind people's liberation front has been fighting government forces for almost a year. in check republic, the center right opposition coalitions overtaken the ruling party and a parliamentary election. the opposition looks to when a 108 seats in the 200 member body, the president of taiwan is promising to defend her islands democracy, sighing. when was responding to china's president who to earlier reiterated his felt that they would be a peaceful reunification with time. one was your headlines and sad story with adrian finnegan, his next. ah,

the tell it us security night that the atlantic state in afghanistan has claimed a bomb attack against the has are a minority as it struggling to win international recognition. can the taliban alone take on the threat of armed groups in the country? this is inside story. ah, ah, hello, welcome to the program. i'm adrian said again. i so in afghanistan has claimed responsibility for suicide bomb attack on friday in little than city of condos. dozens of people were killed at others injured by the explosion inside. a crowded

cheer mosque during friday press. it's the latest in a series of attacks by the group. the violence poses a threat to the taliban who promised to establish security. but the former government couldn't provide. it's also clenched to protect ethnic and religious minorities out a serious hash omaha. but our reports from missouri sheriff, oh, these are the moments after it won't last too. through most fact with worshippers security missiles, say a suicide woman managed to get inside before blowing himself up, killing an enduring spools of people that i sell in afghanistan has claimed responsibility recovery. the mosque is in the town of hannah, bad in condo city, that's hell to many members of the she are has are a minority. hourly bas, come to buy jumbled. come up muscle mana, bahati. he was around $140.00 p. m. all the muslims had gathered in the mosque for friday prayers, and when i heard the explosion,

i was near by. and what i saw was just like the end of the world. why is, is happening to the muslims, which religion should we adopt where there's nothing like this and killing muslims? is forbidden? believe god, i can't even talk any more. i can't tell you how many dead bodies i've shifted in my vehicle. there was no angelos. may god have mercy on all muslims have got. he got on. it's one of the worst i seal attacks, says the taliban take over. as foreign forces were leaving a late august, the army group also claimed responsibility for a suicide bombing at campbell airport. more than a 183 people were killed, including 13 your soldiers. i sail latest, said it was behind a series of attacks targeting the taliban in general. abandon kabul. the taliban launched a crack down and arrested dozens of isaac fighters in those cities. taliban officials

say they are determined to eradicate their rivals. violence has increased over the last few days. the taliban next move is going to be closely monitored by the afghan people and the international community. the united states is expecting the taliban to deliver on a promise made in the 2020 doe hug we meant to prevent. i sail from building a base in afghanistan. the blasting condos underscores the growing challenges. the taliban now faces sissy took over the country in august. the taliban prize itself on providing secure and stable environment. but the attacks in delilah, bad, cowboy, a dove, this one in condos will increase anxieties among the afghan people. hash mal barrels is either missouri city, leon through calls itself hispanic state, correson province, a historical region that includes afghanistan and other central asian countries. it

was formed in 2014 by break away fighters from the pakistani and african taliban groups. they pledged allegiance to the late iso leader abil bucher albert daddy, the responsible for some of the worst attacks in afghanistan and pakistan in recent years, killing people in mosques in public squares, and even a maternity ward and cobble their adversaries of the taliban. i saw has been highly critical of the color bands piece talks and engagement with washington. i so strictly opposes the taliban goal of establishing an islamic emerett with in afghan borders and instead seeks to create a pan islamic caliphate. ah, so let's bring in our guests for today's discussion. phase zealand is professor of political science a couple university. he joins us now from cobble. michael, simple chair at the mitchell institute for global peace, security and justice at queens university. belfast. he joins us live fir via skype from dublin. and joining us here in doha is independent of can analyst hash met

mostly. good. have you with this gentleman, michael? if we can start with you before we can discuss whether the taliban or can deal with the threat of i saw in afghanistan, we need to establish that the nature of that threatened just how dangerous it is to the taliban and the people of afghanistan. how strong a force is i saw in afghanistan. what does it want? where does it get? it's weapons, it's money. and why is it targeting afghans? sheer minority. the taliban regime faces what we can think of as a threat from the left and the threat from a right. the threat from the right to the threat from isis. the taliban can take it extremely seriously. although isis doesn't actually control tracks of territory. it has pockets of support around the country. it has a very effective a propaganda operation. oh, it's good at operating, undercover. ah, it really terrifies taliban officials because it has been the most effective

organisation, the art carrying out assassinations against them. they here, they really posed that they posed as a survey at the, or the jar, the organization for jer, heidi's, who consider that the taliban are far too moderate. they hit our, their move against afghan. she is, i think, really as a way of like staking out their claim to be, or an organization which is not tempered by the certain amount of moderate in moderation and, and pragmatism was the taliban of hard to. i'm of hard to embrace. isis say that they hear that the she is are near are heretics are under they back that out with these kind of devastating symbolic attacks against them. i think what the, the taliban are really worried is that, oh yeah. and that isis can take away support from them and that our fighters who grievously aligned with the taliban,

ultimately they don't get what they want in terms of the taliban regime that they will end up shifting their support to isis. so in a sense, the taliban find themselves in a dilemma. little bit similar to the one that the african government felt. the afghan government never really felt that they were going to lose in a direct military conflict with that with the taliban. they, he am. they lost when their forces just disappeared and, and at melted away. the taliban are really concerned that their fighters could actually go over to isis ashmond. and i saw you nodding in agreement that we still haven't addressed where i so gets it's, it's financing where it gets its weapons from help. how big a threat to the taliban are they? well, i agree with almost all the points made but the biggest crisis and the challenge facing the stomach in it for taliban more so than the tart than the isis weapons

and their finances is the issue of legitimacy. the taliban are now stuck between the struggle are for islam versus liberalism. and the taliban movement has to find a balancing act has to find a way and narrative on a practice that would both satisfy their hard line supporters and also satisfied the hard line. the liberals of the western governments that would then open up the past for the taliban to get international support. or what makes this balancing act much more difficult, as i said, is the issue off the hard liners on both sides of this spectrum. the course the question is to what extent the taliban can and soften their their position. and as, as our colleagues said, moderate or keep on moderating the position to the western narrative of global and social and political order. us for the taliban or, or as for the isis,

where they get their weapons from birth, predominately they will get their weapons from the time when they, when they start fighting the african government, taking out a small unit and getting weapons that a member in the tom of a water off fall upon against the afghan government in the past. and a lot of the weapons came into afghanistan from pakistan. the region was always a wash was weapons. so a small arms are the isis has came from there. but predominantly what makes the isis or make the taller one more, at least in the past, is the ability to manufacture or improvised explosive devices and the bombs that they, that they manufacture and place them in the cars or trucks and blow them in areas that would create instability for whoever is ruling. and the fact that all about the fact that ice is at the moment is targeting the sheer community in afghanistan . it goes back to the war in r i c area where the fatima you in, is she a brigade that was created from there?

she has a focused on afghanistan, india, and all over the world. and to some extent, that governments of the regions turned a blind eye to the uranium recruitment of the ship from afghanistan. so now the icing up dennison is basically going after avenge attacking those communities. and in that process, unfortunately, a lot of the innocent people don't. bystanders get killed. yeah. okay, i don't, but i'm sorry to interrupt you that let's bring in professor da london. can the taliban crush it's it's adversaries in afghanistan or does it face an ongoing war of attrition? oh, thanks for having me. i think what we are discussing it is sir and not to. busy busy a confine, or an instability, or for c and security, they to have go, i've got to stand in 12 guns as the geography as a population. isis, and many other related to organizations. they have globalize agenda,

isis itself is an important, are. busy busy taken out of the it's main cordless, syria and iraq. busy or from an ideological water resistance from the tree. and so now fighting isis and fighting many others now will require to taliban and international and regional support. it. busy should be a it should be a. busy fight and it should be contained by all the regional countries for the stability of the region are you know, better with the hot our son doesn't mean of janice than it includes jr. parts of pakistan, it on india, even in the whole sub continent. so what we are now discussing, it is actually a spillover of insecurity from the region. a 12 gun is done and it requires originally, international are supposed to taliban to make, contain fight, and eliminate their such threats. michael and picking up on on what,

what phase for saying than hash matter before him about this balancing act between hardliners and liberals and it's legitimacy or will the international community to step in to assist as far as security is concerned? is it under any obligation to do so? the answer as of now is no. it is inconceivable that there would be serious, respectable, international support for the, the taliban in tackling their security challenges. which, of course, are not just isis. i mean, they're fighting the other enemies as well of the, the remnants of the old government as to the representatives of the minorities. so up in the present time, present circumstances are absolutely no. and the taliban will not be surprised with that. after all, there was a fully functioning security apparatus in the here in the country are which had received massive amounts of assistance. perhaps too much. and the taliban saw fit to topple that. i think everybody who previous to supported that they're still

licking their wounds. i think most afghans also believe that what we see in cobble and the current through shape of the, our, the islamic camera, it is not the end of the story. they really are going to have to make some adjustments to our and to incorporate the rest of afghans society, which has never supported the taliban. so in the short run, no, but in the long run, of course these things are going to have to be addressed. because, you know, the, i says our and they say you're the threat of chaos inside afghanistan doesn't just threaten afghanistan. it threatens the broader region and as far as europe. so i think we're going to have to see some political movement with the taliban are very reluctant to do they they, they always loved to hold out and avoid compromise. but ultimately we're going to see some political movement and from the taliban side, some accommodation with the rest of afghan society. and these will be the key to opening up as security assistance and also broader economic assistance. so yeah,

went, oh yeah, we're at the start the story, not the end of it at ashbrand. if a international security assistance is provided and what exactly what it entailed. you think here is a cleanser. if the international community goes on to support the taliban, isis will say taliban are the stooges of the americans and the western powers. and that will empower isis in his propaganda war to win over the youth, especially from other minorities that right now the taliban. the current government of the taliban has sidelined so there is a potential for recruitment from all other ethnic groups. i am a target, i'm in contact with the projects, and a lot of the target use are saying, could isis be an alternative to fight a ton upon because we are left in the middle of, of, of, of a global gain. so if the international committee does not support the thought of on, and the taliban government starts to become weaken than ice this propaganda machine is going to say, did we not tell you that state is him or this concept of nation estate does not

work that we have to go into a global g heart to create a heal offer that is so large and so big and has all their resources on the population that can sustain itself economically. so these are the debates among the islamist groups. but when i listen to the west and analysts there, the entire debate is reduced between a moderation and between extreme women rights and gay rights. and small minorities is one of the issues that islamists are debating among themselves at the moment. the debate is destination is state work is the animation is state in the monster world that the muslims can be proud off. since the end of hill offer. there isn't according to their and narrative. and the taliban have come into the fray saying we are going to create an emerett again within the boundaries of her, of the international laws. and isis saying international laws are made to serve the

higgin, many or the hedge in many off the western powers. and we have to break that, and this is where the taller one have to find the narrative. how to create and the stomach, a state or a emerett within their existing boundaries and implement there, and just standing off shabbier and how to bring their weston and, and a global community to help them economically. and there's a mistake made here. and the only beneficiary in this, a stalemate, as far as i can see in the long run and short term is isis or their stomach, a steak, as we know it or some colored dash face. what's, what's your view on that if the international community were to, it's to assist with security in afghanistan, and what did even mean boots on, on, on the, on the ground? um, would it be technical existence, for example, if, if there were forces sent in again to afghanistan to help pop up the taliban? to what extent could they find themselves just embroiled in that been the same kind of never ending conflict that, that bog down

u. s. and nato forces for so long on an soviet once before that i think boots on the ground is not a clever solution to what's going to happen in the coming months and security. and i've got to stop for the so fall it, i've got to stand this issued the government or the current government, or going to send them to reply to that they must have a rule in law and they must show the power. now the monopoly of using the power in the geography are present, the solemnity of the country to the rest of the world. secondly, getting any forces from the region from russia car, from nato forces that will escalate the current end to end, and stability and security gate will attract more recruitment. not only to die isis,

but also to other powers. who are n p in the us or any other foreign countries, presidents, military presence and on the ground. thirdly, which is where the most important i think we went through military. busy conflict, we went through law. currently we need to work on the political settlements. taliban must attract more inclusive to the government to the political structure. region must support taliban with support is borders that we have with the don. we have with the pakistan and center and he said to eliminate the cross part of that terrorism and also a sales of those that they start having ideological confrontation with the regional countries. in 3rd, 3rd, very men important think is for the european countries and they use their lift of

going to sun and stable situation. the lift up done, it's done facing so many different problems. up already? no, not having jobs, sir. man. there marie, good governance. so didn't need to support her, the new government here, the transition, but to be stable, i'm all i'd set stoned off her control was his face at all. it's that very point that i want to put to, to, to michael. you said michael, that, that eventually some sort of international assistance will be given security wise to to the taliban. but to what extent is his time of the essence given at the state in which afghanistan was left and not sort of waiting until the taliban has met? the west sex spec taishan of it concerning human rights and on women's rights and all of the other things that that, that, that, that they're expecting from the taliban. the security situation is deteriorating now. a well this is exactly the dilemma, but i think this is the kind of message. whats the taliban are going to be getting

loud and clear on they're going to wrestle with? how quickly will they be be prepared to, to move to accommodate not demands not, not just near demands being forced on them by the west. remember that the, the move that the taliban made yet into cobble. oh was something which they decided on how they had, you know, no backing from the afghan people for this that they, what they've done in the 2 months that they've been there is that they've divided the spoils exclusively out within their own movement. they, they promised that inclusive government they didn't deliver on it. so they shouldn't be surprised when they sit down with western into future interlocutors who are all, all keen to undertake preliminary engagement with them on our bessie telling them. there is a long list of things you're gonna have to do before you do get serious assistance . in the meantime, what they're going to be offered is humanitarian assistance for the population rather than either security assistance or serious economic assistance. and the question is, how quickly can both the taliban and also other afghans?

because remember your tell about who you represent the small part of afghan society, taliban and other afghans as they get themselves organized. again, how quickly that can they move to war? some kind of credible structure, the actual inclusive government, which the taliban promised, but it did not deliver because yeah, that, that is when there will be a realistic prospect of proper security assistance and economic assistance. and the longer it takes, the more damage that will be done in the meantime, because you're absolutely right. dice are recruiting as we talk about the thought about of the u. s. a currently holding talks in doha, extensively about getting at risk people out of afghanistan. the us, of course, wants assurances on women's rights and, and education. what will the taliban want though, from those talks in return and will security assistance factor into that to think ah, yes, a taller one would want the american embassy to open for the american government to

tell its allies in the region to normalize the relations with the taliban and to start giving tal on more than just the military and support that start engaging with tal on other very high level and both political and economic level. they need engagement and they need the money that has been frozen in their world bank to be released because dollar bank really need that cash. but there's another angle here . i hear that a lot of tal on leadership are turning again, blaming europe and speaking about us support. but you can see that in the debate, the organization of a stomach countries are complete. the absent and the following are not asking the muslim countries and most in states around the world to come to the support. and the data itself says a lot that a lot of the governments in the region are not happy to tolerate, have come to power because this model of the soon, the islamist organization coming to power is seen as a threat by many of the so called democracies and the kings in the region, and so

a lot of the governments around the region are very, i'm up, you have a total of on assuming power in carbon. so the total one problem it stems from, as it was explained by our other guests that are not inclusive within the african society, they are not liked within the region except that focused on backs the talent. and china would like to have some type of relationship with them for their own, for its own political and national benefits. and internationally, you can see that we're going to suffer some countries is staying away from the front of on you, is staying away from on. and overall, united nation is staying away from the top one. and the taller one in the meantime are being pushed around by isis saying that your model does not work. that we have to extend a fight to the other countries and have a global agenda and establishment of hello. this is the problem on a grappling with, and i don't see any easy way out of it except the towel on making sit in

concessions. but the real question is, to what extent can the taliban change, where they do not lose the core constituency, which are the hard liners. there are reports of social media and i said is very quickly, they are digital. social media. young fall of on fighters are saying you're just waiting for orders to go in to pocket and blow ourselves up and commit suicide bombing. because we think that focus on govern. government is not in a stomach, a government. so within the tal on there that force that has similar ideas to that isis. ok. we're going to have to leave it there. gentlemen. thank you very much. indeed for being with us phase island, michael, simple and hash, mapped out mostly. thank you for watching. don't forget, you can see the program again at any time just by visiting the website at al serra dot com for further discussion. join us at our facebook page, you'll find that at facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. and of course, there's the conversation on twitter handle at ha, inside story for me,

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