come in too close to the cone unlock when it goes in thought when i am as a thing your gas candy concentrated, which can affect a long term hello. or even made them pass out completely kind of my alpha and the either columbia despite the danger, people are still coming to the island. some drawn to the foot of the volcano. i'm only exciting because you do fast boston. i grew came, we stayed here, here until 4 o'clock in the morning. it's a different atmosphere in the capital. santa cruz, the beaches are still open. many here don't seem to care about the volcano. they just want to enjoy their holiday. alexander lurch al jazeera la palmer, they ah hello again. the headlines on al jazeera,

haiti's national police chief as resigned after protests against deteriorating security and gang violence. workers have been on general strike since monday, following the abduction. if a group of christian missionaries. i did not re got that julie, georgia to kill, nothing's going on in the country, are only impoverishing us from the middle class who have no means. but you see that the rich are not kidnapped? don't talk if not with those little leather. no, it's not possible that a gallon of gasoline is selling for 1100 goods. president arielle on re you're not worthy of leading the country. go, go down, are yell on re, you can no longer live in the country. go go. a cinematographer has been killed and the director injured after actor alec baldwin, fire at a prop gun on a shawn sat in new mexico. no charges have been filed and an investigation is underway. new zealand prime minister says strict curve 19 locked our measure is, will be left said once 90 for

a center of the country is fully vaccinated. so far around 70 percent of the country has received both doses. the us house of representatives and voted to hold donald trump's former allies, the ban, and in contempt of congress. the attorney general will now decide whether to prosecute him for refusing to cooperate with an investigation into january storming up the capital pro democracy protests and asked what seni have been banned. as envoys from other south african countries begin mediation, internet access has been limited and dozens of demonstrators have been injured or killed. in the latest cross on protesters that began in june. chinese property giant, every round, has narrowly avoided a formal default on its debts. the group purportedly wired funds to a trustee account for a bond interest payment just days before a deadline. those are the headlines inside story is up next by indian super going meeting. the 3rd, if demo workers have had their wounds with 11 east investigates,

why so many women are having invasive surgery on out is in brazil, president dismissed coven, 19 as a little flu. now, a senate inquiry says, jr. bolton aro, should be charged with crimes against humanity, but is his prosecution likely? and could this lead to further political divisions? this is inside store. ah. hello and welcome to the program. i'm hammer jim's room. more than 600000 brazilians have died of cobra. 19 the world's 2nd highest death toll president jr. boston are famously dismissed. the corona virus, as a little flew, he touted misinformation and unproven treatments,

even after contracting the virus himself. now, a senate inquiry says boss, an arrow should face charges including crimes against humanity. the panel accused him of negligence and intentionally letting the virus spread. both an arrow says he is guilty of nothing. a senate committee will now vote on the report. will get to our guest shortly. first, this report from monica jak f. while a senate panel was reading the long list of accusations against j will so narrow, the president was in north east, brazil been cheered by his supporters. a horrible voice of the people is the voice of god. also, an arrow says he did nothing wrong. he's criticized the senate panel, which has been investigating the government's handling of the pandemic. it's recommended the president be charged with 10 different crimes, including crimes against humanity, but also an arrow is accused of downplaying the pandemic, which cost $600000.00 deaths in brazil,

the world's 2nd largest toll. the report says, thousands of lives could have been saved if the president had taken the virus seriously. instead he criticized locked downs, encouraged mass gatherings made a point of not wearing a mask and delayed mass vaccination. the report will be voted upon next tuesday. it will then be submitted to brazil's attorney general, who has 30 days to determine whether he accepts the charges or not senator or matters. these were presided. the panel told al jazeera, there is enough evidence to put bull sonata behind bars. if the attorney general does nothing will go to the supreme court and also to the international court of justice of the hague. we will continue to put pressure to make sure justice is done or seattle says the investigation is the loss of time to pass laws. who knew it did nothing except spread grudge and hatred among brazilians. but that opinion is

strongly contested by many brazilians who lost their loved ones. during the pandemic, and my doctors and scientists who say the coven 19 probe, is historic. because it points the finger at all those responsible for the tragedy, monica, and i give, i'll just sierra morales bring in our guess in south palo gustavo ribeiro, journalist, and founder of the brazilian report in york, england, jaw newness, senior lecturer and international relations at the university of york and in washington d. c. polo sotero, distinguished fellow at the woodrow wilson center is brazil institute. welcome to the program and thanks so much for joining us today on inside story paulo. let me start with you today. how damaging is this report and how likely is it that president bull scenario would ultimately face trial? as a result, you will face trial, but not this year, not next year. i believe he will face trial was he is defeated in the

presidential election of next year. which is a likely scenario he will be right for the crimes that were listed by the congressional committee, but obviously at the local me to report a butch to record straight at this man committed enormous atrocities. he, him and his associates. and he will respond politically at their he is obviously a soccer shield, political shoot for him, organized the congress by his reporters. so the idea that the residents could be in peach, it is far fact. it was probably, it's very like gustavo, as damning as this report. is it could also have been much worse. there was an

earlier draft version that i believe had called for authorities to indict the president and others listed on charges of mass murder as well. why were those potential charges removed from the final report and what impact does that have now? well, it's a little the senators who. ready are a part of the committee believe that these accusations were very hard to prove in the court of law and would seem like a legal stretch and make it easier for business. prosecutor general, who is someone very much aligned with the variables and added to shell for or stall the process altogether. so they believe that presenting fewer chargers but charters that are more substantiated by the incredible amount of the evidence that this committee has dug during the 6 months the has operated would be from the legal standpoint, a much more souled approach. remembering that

a lot of the senators have pre or prior experience with law enforcement. so they are experienced in presiding. ready over inquiries, the thing is also not the last then with the legal aspect, he's also very concerned about the court of public opinion and for the government, the fact that the counts of genocide and murder were struck, struck down is some sort of a when even if the report is scale as casing as it could be towards the administration because the in the words of one government, the initial, everyone knows what genocide and murder is. ready and that would be a much worse look for the presidents and in the opinion of some government officials did remain counts or leg alea's that will be much more difficult to explain to the average voter. ready come next year's election jaw. gustavo there mentioned that from his vantage point, president wilson aro,

would probably be more concerned about the court of public opinion right now. let me ask you about that and how are his poll numbers right now? what does the public think now? that they've been exposed to this report well presents both in our book large and all time low. despite is effort is recent efforts to solidify and always base, but also to enhance and increase the space by developing renewed cash and our program. the truth is that the popularity levels of acceptance are very low. current opinion polls suggest a very strong lead for a former president. let us use that for the next. for the next election, we currently, according to different opinion polls, or we would have both in our remaining level 20 percent in the general election votes. i think the question is, as i would say, there's

a lot of questions that pertain to the court of public opinion. there's also, i think, the way in which this report has been presented might shake up the precarious balance upon which his government rest. so the current, the current government depends on the support of parliamentarians and to support parliamentary comes at the cost and whenever the president is attacked. and whenever the president is in a situation of low popularity, the cost the premium to be paid to parliament areas for to, to, to get their, their support increases and watch what will likely happen is that this may have an impact, not simply on the, the general population, but also on the level of support that boston are only currently enjoys from, from government. so as one of my colleagues in the panel was saying,

impeachment proceedings depend on the action of the speaker of the lower chamber or to lead. and this person has so for now, has been on $120.00 plus you request. the question then becomes on whether is this report may give strength to new or to previous impeachment proceedings to be, to be examined palo eyes. are you reacting a lot to what the draw was saying there's, i want to see if you want to jump in. and i also want to ask you, when it comes to what i was saying about the next election and the popularity right now of lula da silva, do you think that this ultimately benefits mr to silver in the long term? right now it does. the election is a year from now does is a lifetime in politics, in any country for president lula usually has the following of,

according to the poll at the minimum of a 3rd here. but this game has not started yet. the electoral game. lucy is teaching up in march april next year and also model and lola maintain a you know, they depend elect laura lee of this very polarized situation. do not dismissable. so now he will, he was elected with work over arnold class in the business community. now there are movements in the business community trying to foster a 3rd way or so called 3rd way, a candidate between little and bulls on. i'm not sure if that will work, but yes, president lula is back. he can run next year,

but do not dismiss the capacity of both on how to revive both should know should show it earlier next year or in the hassles next year. a much tighter race, remember ball so novel has the power of the purse. he is not worried about fisco risk ability. he will spend anything and everything in order to be in a good position to get reelected. many people in brazil in 2018, believe that he would never be elected because he, he represents a brand of politics that we are not used to in was 0. he was elect, don't do not dismissal. so not yet. but yes, lar and one final point,

a ruler in order to be elected to prevail, he will have to make alliances. remember, one thing, the 2 times the workers party who ran successfully for the presidency, brazza ruler, present level staff. they run in alliance with a very moderate conservative candidates, which was a bad indicator of look at them, or in the case of gilmer. these are very conservative lead there is that represent a right wing gap because you know, society. so this is, this is a, still a complicated game, not clear, and i remain like that for the foreseeable future. gustavo looks like you want to jump in some of these ads. yeah, please go ahead. no, i just want to read something about. busy impeachment because i do not believe that

the teacher is on the table right now for a few reasons. one, there's very little time left in both of those terms and these processes take a long time. so it would be very convoluted and we have to bear in mind that next year congress will to work for to half of the midway point of the year after that congressman will be more focused on their old races. so they did the. ready congressional works will be disrupted at this moment. and there's also another point is that everyone who is vying for the presidency is not really wanting most of them being peach. there is this sentiment that the worst, the more wounded both of them gets to the ballot. bog to the post in october of next. busy year the easier it will be to to beat him. but i agree with bob, this is a very dangerous calculation. let's remember that people try to do the same strategy with lula in 2005 when his administration was facing corruption charges for bribing

. congressman for a majority, but then the economy turns created a lot of fuel goods factors and was reelected quite easily is as a matter of fact. and i'm not saying that the same thing could happen with also the other. but like follow said, he's not off the game because both of those approval ratings eloping. busy are much more connected to the health of the brazilian economy rather than to his panoramic response as bad as it was. let's remember that last year he enjoyed the peak of his approval ratings. when the government handouts were given, we're having a huge effect on peoples purchasing power and then his approval ratings start to trend. since september last year, when the handouts were halves and then in december they were expired and there was a form. busy of high ages in which we saw poverty rates climbing, hunger,

food insecurity rise in brazil. so if both managers even blowing up the budgets to improve people's quality of life, then it has pretty much all the game and he will try to at least get to the 2nd round and get anti left sentiment to do the rest of the job for him. joe, whether or not president bull scenario is ultimately charged or indicted, whether he's in office or out of office. do you think that it's at all likely that federal prosecutors in brazil would go after any of the other people named in the report? yes, it is likely it would be, it would be hard to understand the such. an encompassing report did not really not result in any time. so present was an arrow in this report. has been doctor for 9 crimes. he's a single this. the person who has more crimes identified in there or but there

are countless authors around 6066 or 65 others were also named on this report for numerous types of crimes. so it would be surprising you just nothing happens. and as a result of this, obviously it all depends much on federal prosecutor general, the prosecutor general, who is also a supporter at the moment. but i don't think this prosecutor general i was to was, i don't think he can simply sit on this report because what one possible scenario that we can witness is that this prosecutor general is also being challenged and being questioned by lots of state level. prosecutors who are unhappy with his reluctance to confront often are because if there have been numerous occasions in which both on our accusations, against those narrow,

if not follow through because of the actions or rather you missions of this prosecutor general. so one could see one possible scenario, which there was a mobilize issue of state level prosecutors that they would start their own investigations into specific individual's name to this report. such as, for example. busy seals of companies or under audrey individuals and this could put pressure on the prosecutor general to start acting more decisively. ready and in response to the very serious accusations that are, that have been identified in your report. so, i mean, i would be, i would find it very surprising if nothing happens, nothing comes up or whatever. and i think i'm in agreement that the most serious crime is at present unlikely. ready that at the moment there will be an indictment particularly on the most serious offenses that. busy are being. ready is being charged with a just for example, crimes against you manage all the that's a,

that's a responsibility between actual criminal court. but for example, the crime demick leading to death. and this is a very serious accusation that i'm not certain, i don't think the conditions are created for an immediate indictment, palo there has been rising anger in brazil because of the government's response to the pandemic. there has been this very emotional testimony that's been given by relatives of a people who died because of coven 19. is the overall public sentiment in the country, that the federal government has been completely negligent, and perhaps, perhaps even criminal in its response to the coven. 19 pandemic. yes, this short answer is yes. i think those more than 600 people died of cold in brazil, a country that has a health infrastructure, public health infrastructure. that is pretty decent,

but was not allowed to work to function this time by meant that negate the existence of gov. it could say that was on i was history. it is, i am time careful to judge who does he has the power of the purse. brazil is a very conservative nation. and that this game, the electoral game has not yet started really. and that the left, by the way, very divided. and we shall see what happens in this dynamic. if the more moderate fort steve forces are capable of producing a more central this figure, a viable candidate, it doesn't look like it will happen. doesn't look like now. but did develop

meant that this development could take shape one important point on the positive side. i be a little bit dairy here, but the fact is that e c 2 shows in brazil work, they continue to work and they are doing what they are supposed to do. it is sometimes very difficult to watch what's happening. but this report from the sent from the congress that shows that yes, the representatives of the people are, are doing the job, they know what is the population's expect a shows of them. and they are reacting by investigating, by producing with such as this, gustavo, where do things stand in the country right now when it comes to code? 19, when it comes to the state of the pandemic? how is the vaccine rule outgoing? what about infection rates at the moment? well, brazil is,

let's say the best moment of depend amick since april of last year. september has been the least deadly mouth since october of last year. and death has trended down soon speaking in march of this year. and that's mainly because aflac seems because the government stalled deliberately stalled as the corporate inquiry showed. vaccine purchases from pfizer for modern manufacturers like psycho vac. but once the state level agents started to push for the vaccine production locally, that pressure the government into rolling out of actions and the more political pressure ramped up, the more the government was forced to increase rollouts. so now we have about 50 percent, just over 50 percent of the population fully immunized and 3 quarters with at least one dose in several big urban centers have vaccination rates right next to

a 100 percent. when it comes to the adult population. joe, we only have a couple of minutes left. i just want to ask you about the enormous he of this report and its potential impact. first and foremost, is there any precedent in brazil, of a prep of a president or, or another government official being held to account for decision making during either a pandemic or a public health crisis, not to do 6. to my knowledge, please correct me following to my knowledge. this is the most far reaching in the most encompassing indictment of president office and this, and i think one of one of the, one of the peculiarities of the report that does it covers a broad re crime. so we have common crimes, crimes of the common law, civil law. and then we have crimes of so called crimes of responsibility which are crimes that are committed by those old office and as a result of their,

their holding office. and then we have crimes against humanity. i think this is unheard of to my, to my knowledge of politics is unheard of that you have such an encompassing range of crimes identified in a president in office. so it is a very strong. it is a powerful and damning indictment of the present, but i think and i think we should also bear this in mind. this is not simply about those in our i think what, what does report shows and what the investigation is to 6 months investigations of this, of this commissioner demonstrated is an entire ecosystem around the president, including private actors, including a scientists, including civil servants in the ministry of how, who have all conspired, or there were a lot of crimes, be committed in

a lot of actions and a missions been committed because he's not simply about the government omitting to act in response to the pandemic. this is also about wilful actions that were taken by a range of actors. some of them with knowledge, with the present knowledge that led to the public health disaster that brazil is faced. so this is an indictment of an entire ecosystem of private parallel cabinets that are surrounded himself with that would advise him on, for example, the use of eye drops, explore on denying or infringing social distance measures that would wilfully delayed the purchase of back scenes. so a number of the delay joining the complex facility, w h o products. so all of this can be ultimately the buck stops and to president.

but i think this is also a powerful argument of an entire political and economic system around the president . and this is what's more, one of the most important conclusions to be taken of this report. all right, well, we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thanks so much to all of our guest gustavo rivero. just jo, nunez and palo sotero and thank you for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al jazeera dot com, and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter handle is at ha, inside story from him, how much i'm doing the whole team here. 5 for now. november on al jazeera, also a year of turbulent weather. well, lead us gather in glasgow for crucial summit on the battle against climate change.

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