this is scott that similar look at the one i thought we are in contact with each other over the phone. we pause on information. what is happening in our area, or if a boat goes by, i will tell the others where it's went in which direction, and we will react so that if something illegal is happening, we can stop it. the sturgeon ah, now better protected and better understood. but george is government once more hydropower, on this river, not less, their survival still hangs in the balance. roving 1st tier walker al jazeera on the re or the river in western georgia. oh, this is al jazeera and these are the headlines you as president joe biden is meeting with the head of the roman catholic church at the vatican. the meeting comes ahead of the start of the g. 20 summit and run our white house correspondent . kimberly hawkins. has this update from the vatican. the meeting that everyone is

focused on is the u. s. president's meeting with pope frances that we understand is still under way. well, the president's arrival was carried live. the actual meeting was not or is not that is due to cupboard restrictions. we know that the vatican videographers will be present, but no other press corps will be there to see the exchange of gifts. they exchange pleasantries or even some of the issues that they may discuss. now terms of those issues. we know that migration is important, that will be discussed, income inequality. but one of the issues that they'll really focus on we're both of these leaders are very concerned is the issue of climate change. while top oil and gas executives have denied misleading the public about climate change, the ceo's of major oil companies appeared before the u. s. congress, the 1st time they've testified under oath on the subject. france says it's ordered the captain of a british fishing vessel seized earlier this week to appear in court next year.

with ours, you say the color was fishing illegally in french territorial waters. the european commission has reportedly suspended funding to the wild house organizations operations in democratic republic of congo. that's after an inquiry found more than ac aid workers, some of whom worked for the w h o. sexually exploited and abused women during the response to the above outbreak. meanwhile, the head of the w h. o is reportedly uncle's to be re elected for a 2nd time without any opposition. a letter obtained by the reuters news agency shows that doc, the terrorists on how to get a yes, this is the only candidate nomination ahead of the un agencies. elections in may. 28 countries submitted his name phenomena, nation. well those are the headlines doreen will have more news for you here on al jazeera off the inside story. stay with us. ah.

should western sanctions on entities in zimbabwe be lifted? a you in special envoy says measures imposed by the u. s. u and u. k. are destroying people's lives, but her sanctions to blame for as in bob ways, economic troubles. this is inside store. ah hello and welcome to the program. i'm homage and room sanctions were placed on individuals and entities as in bob way in 2003 the u. s. e u and u. k. imposed those sanctions accusing politicians and entities of human rights

abuses and repressing democracy. but in bob way says, the sanctions have led to widespread misery. the un special wrapper tour on unilateral coercive measures agrees zimbabwe government invited alena do hon to visit for 10 days. after speaking with ministers, civil society organizations and businesses to hon called for the sanctions to end. she says they've had an insidious ripple effect on the economy and worsened people's access to health, food education and employment. here's what's in. bob weighs justice minister, had to say at the start of do hands visit who went to thanks him, removed because be affected, every facet will for life. so in, in that, so our document that we have when to give them will clearly indicate the effects of fences or not so fit the sanctions were imposed during former president robert mc

gabe's rule and were extended in february last year the u. s. and e, you cited a lack of progress on political and human rights reforms, at least 59 companies. and more than 140 people including president emerson monongahela had been sanctioned for alleged rights abuses. the u. k. recently imposed punishments on fours and bob, wy and security officials over crackdowns on protesters in 20182019. the western measures include travel restrictions, embargo on sales of military equipment and a freeze on assets. the government says the financial measures are crippling the countries development. but critics blame government mismanagement and corruption ah. all right, let's bring our guess from hoary over due to the founder of the negotiate legal consultancy and public governance institute and former zimbabwe and deputy minister

of justice and legal affairs from johannesburg, piers pig who international crisis group, senior consultant for southern africa. and also from herrera e, blue mendoza, director of the southern africa political economy series. trust, thanks to you all for joining us today. we appreciate your time here on inside story. oh barry, let me start with you in the past, you've apologized for being part of opposition. party politicians in zimbabwe, who repeatedly called on the west to impose and maintain sanctions on zimbabwe. why did you apologize? yes, i apologize because i felt a section and talk reflection and then talk analysis. but i definitely been a very naive to run along with the sanctions on the mob in attitude. in fact, i think was one of the most vocal, you know what it is,

and then we're passionate that we're getting, you know, 4 functions to be imposed. in fact, i actually thought then that the functions actually to digital. and i was like, look at the way but more sanctions strong, our biggest actions and on further reflection, i didn't realize that no, i think maybe my conceptualization of 2 or district at the so called targeted sanctions was not exactly what what didn't happen. i think that this is attempts to idealistic conceptualization of this animal called targeted sanctions. because in reality there's nothing like target sanction. the sanctions again isn't but it actually been all some functions. if anyone who was been targeted is the poor man and woman, woman in the townships, the poor minute appointment in the villages out today in the areas. in other words, it is millions of the poverty stricken and toiling massive of them. but we actually

get, you know, by these instructions. so with the time i didn't realize that admit that i give the, i think the with mistake of my political career associating myself. and you've been open the advocacy and passionately doing so for the position of sanctions on my beloved countries in. so i have to not keep sense of guilt, this deep sense, or shame at this sense of free, great at this is why i decided to go public and to say, to my country, men, to my country, women, to make my been com. but just that, i'm sorry, let me get, let me take so much and one's again. now just to reiterate my apology, and to say that apology is top is from the depth of my hat. and it's on condition able. have you been surprised by what you've heard so far from a special envoy?

do hon. is this what you had expected to hear from her? was quite surprised. of course, i think the, the, the 1st impression that more people ahead many people. ready at least the thought this wasn't an invite fee of a government issued simply say. ready what exactly the government wants to hear and indeed the jewelry set up for her appeared to be very. ready state centered and appeared to, to georgia to have left out the opposition as soon as i did. but i was surprised if the statement which was issued as it is correct. i was surprised. that's quite a balanced statement that on the one entity, if she acknowledges the, the issue of session as that even though they were targeted to have ad dash division checked on the, the economy in terms of perception and so on and so forth. but this went on,

which is where it was the best went on to highlights that which most of the been highlighting the need for police really forms the need for ration by implication. a special question isn't as long as i think there's an a. ready well some of us we've been calling for official apology coming basis. ready that both this the state is beyond redemption. there no capacity to reform. busy and therefore, and the physician is better than up decimated. and. busy therefore, there needs to get together and amber transitional authority, which is the concept with the space before the next. yes. appears. how much of an impact will this statement from the special rapper to your have and how much

weight does it carry? well, thanks for that question. thanks the end of the discussion on this issue. i don't think the state boats will necessarily have that much impact, although it does depend on the extent which the parties are doing the sanctioning and those being sanctioned. i used to sort of constructive what i do think there is a lot to, to see on the site, but to the shoe. a more instructive dialogue about the issues that are on the table . i do think mr. han has raised some extremely issues with sanctioning nations, need to look at much more seriously in a chair way as well. not just with respect to these particular met, the issue of own finance that she emphasizes in statement is an

important one. but i do think that there will be some questions about her analysis is kind of a cherry thinking what her with respect to the major causal. busy factors, parent, lack of enjoyment on reason, back with respect to human rights, integrity and so forth. and, well, certainly the in for a little over all of those issues, there will be some that will question and will wait to see whatever. but so i just took all the kind of early tips that she's added around the impact all measures that have been put in place. i mean, i was one fundamentally disagree with his reflections that these patients had such a devastating impact on the ordinary individuals. they certainly have had an impact

. i think there's no doubt that question is how do we wait that one would hope that the process that we've seen would enable a more constructive dialogue or. busy with a view to say happens and relating those denial. mr. hunts. oh barrett, of course peers just now disagreed with your viewpoint on all of this when it comes to sanctions, the effects that they've had. i want to give you a chance to reply yes. when you look at the effects of legal sanctions about the effects, it's actually been for some of the medical for all our lives. and we know, and we know some of these places where, where, where, where we are with the people that have been to the villages out to the townships where you, you, your, your visit to the quarter of the port. so you, you,

you get opportunity to, to see for yourself and to total appreciate from sessing o, one on one position to see that this is what functions of this emission of what was a, b, one, a southern africa, most sophisticated industrial base, that independent dimension, each now just that photo shape. ok, we have it, people talk of corruption, but you should also look at the symbiotic relationship. didn't sanction the garage that actually i, i believe that actually, you know, sanctioned by one of the main diamonds of corruption. and we're, we're saying at the end of the day, when we look at the, the timing of the function, it's really nothing to do so none of logan's, of human rights in the rule of law. it has everything to do with the lender program, which is beginning then on february 2000. zimbabwe is actually being punished for bucking one on something that was handled. i'm sure the former to no power in the

middle is the post with a bit to say this little country in southern africa. how did they do that? chicken land from about 400445025000 white commercial farmers. just unthinkable. and then like, just a crook and other guys, and it does make the economist cream and boy, they economy did scream. hey, bo, special envoy, do hon says the unilateral sanctions and the over compliance with the measures in their complexity had exacerbated preexisting economic conditions, especially for those living in poverty, women, children, and the elderly, among others. do you agree with that assessment? very difficult. the to, to qualify that qualify, that's the extent which essentially whatever it is, measures will have that effect. i think the one does want to be turn it into the

debate such as quickly as try to provoke of, of a prize debate between those. ready who think sexually that bad and the exceptions are good. i went to understand the context of function emissions and on to say that not and my view is 20th of these, so called midges. they have not achieved the po for we still put it in place. they become more token that's different from the mandatory you in a section that they've seen before in producer and in other countries. secondly, they have not had the they've punished these. they're so called targeted individuals when the country these people have been. ready very, very far more prosperous one. ready with the central indigent, and therefore, for me,

the issue of the debate of what was the base rambling on whether they achieved the purpose, which is to improve they adore to, to influenced all i want to say force. but this was political and economic reforms. they have not achieved that in the country. we have gone down into the economy and political west was government in place. so nothing. so there's need to change the paradigm and move and that's way welcome. the envoys reference to structured data structure dialogue for me such a data. just putting us in our statement when the decision about it. it is time down and look for a way forward as through vision of national,

regional and international cooperation to wish that the wage in need of a brief after that that the peers you heard you were there. talk about how the rep special upper tours, calling for a structured dialogue. is that something you think can happen at this point? well, no, i was watching the yo a listen to the song. yeah. spokesman today sir, who was talking about this is her endorsement. so it looks like to started off process, which is a controversial process that has been introduced by president monarch or a does not have mains pre session nbc alliance. i doodle saying

that what is being referred to is our process. and i do think it is kind of dialogue ah, sir mendoza is referring to one but also move beyond find all at the something special said move beyond and abandoned the kind of rhetoric that section is what we continue to see from some players here to see what advantage it seems very unlikely in the run up to the electron in the next 18 months or so that we're going to see a real commitment from certain actors or to that kind of dialogue. oh barry from your point of view, um, are there conditions in place right now in zimbabwe, whereby there could be a framework developed for some kind of national dialogue or constructive dialogue going forward? oh yes. oh yes. you know,

the main challenge, i think that so some of our colleagues colleagues in zimbabwe is this issue of saying it's the dialogue. he's not like, you know, a g ban on the study, you know, conducted by foreign powers. what i mean to be just then it's just not to legitimate that i just say now we want to, to initiate a dialogue with the african union to measure the dialogue. they've even been holes for the, for the matter. missions the down. and so for just why was the looking at them, but you know, one of them because highest a see, we have put them into human capital within the country is a human capital and also human capital in the dash for some of the most q people across whatever this is not proficient, how divide you may want to single,

we have moments are capable of doing that. so i think the moment that people didn't say for as long as the data, maybe you said in one me and does not include some for an interest and you know what an interest i was in, in the opposition for more than 20 years of my life and i know how the position, i know the hand of the for a certain point it takes about it because i was there, i was there right in that mix i was in the mission was going to call me to them to say, so i know what i'm talking about so dialogue is really happening is the bullet process in zimbabwe. and i believe that it is one of the muster, but sure to get one of the most actually only most of the folks. so why are the people that interested in all that, to say no, we want to bilateral dialogue between prison and that well in ourselves, which doesn't include all other class nights simply on it. and it won't happen. it's not going to happen. why go on to chick simpler everybody, the so called big a divide effort or that kind of balance. so

paula disease, he bought, you wrote a piece in which you said the vein, expectations that the november 2017 qu, would redeems and bob way from the international isolation under this in bob way is open for business mantra have all but gone up in smoke why is that theresa grace clear. my brother over the group. there are to those those words. ready i mean, i'm shocked that he thinks pollard is a way for it was absolutely shocked in never knows that all it is is a cul de sac queen or way or. i mean, the job was about was know that if he doesn't i'm surprised that secondly, i think that the the, the, the way forward is the kind of dialogue which begins,

there's been into petition of the old data is that one is the most blatantly at failure but i believe data again with data, but begin with the recognition or the restoration, of course, as soon as we have about the $1010.00 of the move to the better. that's the sort of like a dialogue that picked up for the bench with all the information i situation right through from the dentist. one could jolts to the lab because the house agreement we believe that we need to attend that kind of situation again with the help of the region and they help the region. ready i've stated the article that you have stated that the international,

effective with both. ready on. ready need to have a state and ships to do some kind of to engage with the cross the device to engage, discuss, load genuine data that begins earlier with a structured session. i wonder when this lady to refer to a structure that was coaching the document we did in 2016 long before the the the cool. when we saw the cook, i mean we were stage where we're going in the way as to think that we're going somewhere with bullets. i think that is dilution to civil thinking. and peers from your perspective, will the special operators work to be able to in able a broader fact based engagement on the issues that she has been investigating. but

it shouldn't be. i mean, i think this is so really is the next step. it's unfortunate that we're only going to see a final report in september next year. but i think there's a great deal of interest that this is an issue that requires attention. there is a real opportunity and us to have that, that based on that goes beyond the posturing, see a continuing or even in the face, all state that she has made cherry issues from that side of the question, as i said earlier, is whether the key parties are prepared to come to the table. it's not as if there aren't opportunities spaces and either either each certainly or between the parties instituting sanctions and those of the receiving it. there is lot change you to do this list. see really now how the actors on to this or from the special raptor.

but i do think she also has a responsibility. see how best she said the type that and to catalyze, ah, the discussion because what i see on the table at the moment from her is provoking publications which are a book obligations. but people will need to see what the evidence is in order to enable and applesauce appears. let me just follow up with you real quick and we only have about a moment left on. what do you foresee happening when the special envoy presents her final report? next year. well, you know, i mean the title and again, i hope that's another rejection. bear in mind that we like to still have these measures that bus that are going to another opportunity to troy this discussion board. and it seems to me that external actors from the region. so

bro, in enabling that session. but it requires so much. oh really? and that's a level of all of the move away from postering. and the more discussion i think is the way to go. but unfortunately, i think as we see the broader issues around the key parties are not willing to go that way. now, right, we run out of time. we're going to have to leave the conversation or thanks so much, all our guests over good to peers, p go and evil mendoza. and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al jazeera dot com, and for further discussion, go to our facebook page at facebook dot com forward slash ha, inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter. we're at a j inside story and then how much of room the whole team here, bye for now?

ah, a to al jazeera in the field goes to one of the world's most dangerous migration. crossing, still this dangerous jungle can make it to north america and meet some of those trying to cross the columbia, panama borden, in search of a better line. they say the only thing left or their expired passport on al jazeera with

world is experiencing unprecedented extreme weather record temperature. the being said last year than i feel for deteriorating foss. whenever the quote running down world lead is amazing flaws. go in the u. k. in a bit of fresh out a deal to fly from issue to 4th to late all over you and climate. some on al

jazeera. mm. you want to help save the world? sneeze into your own. oh, this is al jazeera, i'm debbie and obligated with a check on your world headlines. he was president joe vine and it is meeting with the head of the roman catholic church at the vatican. the meeting comes ahead of the started the g. 20 summit in rome or white house correspondent, kimberly hallett has more on what's likely to be discuss during the meeting. we know that migration is important, that will be discussed, income inequality. but one of the issues that they'll really focus on were both of these leaders are very concerned is the issue of climate change. this is something that the biden administration and joe biden and.