and the has caused some meaningful and effective action to ensure that global warming is limited to 1.5 degrees celsius. the final communicate from the summit does not include a deadline for net 0 emissions. we have lots of crisis the held in climate, the global poverty, the malnutrition, gender, and generational need qualities demand, stronger action that we've taken so far. so i asked myself, what we mean when we say we've succeeded. but in what we succeeded, where we certainly pledged considerable resources, we also kept too many of these commitments. we increase their strength, their scope. but mostly we made sure that our dream says the secretary general, united nations are not only alive, but also that they are progressing well. our leaders are now heading to the scottish city of glasgow for the cub $26.00 climate change senate leaders from all regions in the wilds are expected to discuss their plans that cost emissions.

hundreds of migrants have disembarked from the turkish flags, cargo ship, and greece. the vessel was carrying about 400 people and sent a distress signal on friday after its engines failed. the migration ministries at 6 passengers have been detained for questioning. aris as one of the main routes into the ear, youth and migrants, and refugees crossing from turkey. john travellers, as following this from athens, the official version from the hellenic coast guard is that among the nationalities on board. and this is just an early estimate. our pakistan is afghans, lebanese egyptians, iranians, syrians and bangladesh is. but that remains to be confirmed in the breakdown in numbers also remains to be confirmed. apparently these people were provided with food and water of which they were short, while they were being towed to the island of course, where they are now being registered. so the remain questions about what actually transpired on this voyage. the greek authorities to confirm that they did attempt

to return the boat to turn to turkish, hover, or what i was told by ha, coast guard official. and i quote, there were initiatives on the greek side to return the boat to turkey, which were refused, but were not told when those initiatives took place. the story on the greek side has consistently since march of last year been that the turkish state is now aiding and abetting smugglers on the coast of asia minor. and that these various attempts to launch refugee filled boats into gree quarters are now a state sponsored operation. the sudanese teachers committee has called for a strike in all states of sudan a day after hundreds of thousands of people rally did announce the military take over. at least 4 people were killed in protests there on saturday. well, those, the headlines to stay with us. i have a news. our for you here on al jazeera after inside story.

ah. the world's biggest companies are told to pay their taxes. g 20 leaders approve a global minimum rate of 15 percent. but will this be enough to prevent tax dodging and who will benefit? this is inside stored. ah. hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much am john tax avoidance has long been

a controversial practice in global business. multinational firms make money in $1.00 country and move their profits to another, where they can pay little or no corporate tax. the world's largest economies are trying to stop this. leaders of the g 20 have endorsed a plan to force the world's top $100.00 firms to pay taxes in the countries where they operate. and they've agreed on a minimum rate of 15 percent. the deal followed discussions between $140.00 countries earlier this month led by the organization for economic cooperation and development. we understand that countries around the world, including the u. s. the now has to work on the implementation of this deal. so did domestic processes. i'm your confidence at the u. s. and countries all around the world that have signed on to this to who will now seek to implement it swiftly and in good faith. but you know, that's no model for the, the domestic processes and all those jurisdictions that have signed on ireland was

one of the last countries to agree to the 15 percent corporate tax rate. it's low taxes, encouraged firms like google, apple, and facebook to set up their european headquarters there. but kenya, nigeria, pakistan, and sri lanka rejected the agreement. kenya said the plan makes it hard for its government to collect levies from multinational tech giants. while nigeria says 15 percent is too low. ah, all right, let's bring in our guests in dublin, richard boyd, barrett and irish politician and member of parliament for people. the for profit in absentia must offer in the g will executive director of the african center for tax and governance and and bill bow. susanna ruiz, rodriguez oxfam internationals, tax justice lead a warm welcome to you all. and thanks so much for joining us on the program. today, susanna, let me start with you today oxfam has said that the o e. c. d tax deal is a mockery of fairness. why was deer level of some be shown with

this deal? after almost a decayed negotiation was very high, it was supposed to be ending the rest of the bottom facts, competition between countries he was supposed to and also the profit shifting to that 7. and he was supposed to be raising additional significant additional revenue for a lot of countries. this is not going to be happening is a deal for rich concrete between beach countries. and most of the additional revenues will be limited to those countries, especially g 7 and european ones. so that's why we are disappointing because after such long negotiations, when we have been as seen under under as an outcome, he saw what was expected, especially for developing countries. that must offer of course, not all countries or we're happy about this deal. why does nigeria reject the agreement? so do you ever get in the deal for

a few reasons why is largely on the vessel? so as you know, the threshold required that multinational companies that are not the scope of why have to have a global minimum, a global revenue about 20 be on years. and even beyond the global revenue, 20000000000 years, the profitability has to be as low as 10 percent. there is a part that requirement to be local about 1w1w years. and you see that we did about 100 companies only fall under the special, which means most of these countries, most of these companies want to bring in and that you will not be able to get revenue. that is one. secondly, the issue of dropping all the unilateral measures, for example, i drive over already walking under significant climate bread in which brings in all

non resident companies operate in including both digitalized non non highly digitalized companies. so starting on to do deal with the use threshold scope means that job be giving away a lot of revenues. and i think that the dog teen on the under the pillow and that is a consent. and that is that there is a monday to be binding dispute resolution because so if there is any dispute and then you ask the ask to be done at the international level, not at a domestic level. and this sort of names you added to the advantage. i think lastly, one of the main issues that i like that is that the reach the 15 percent global minimum factory that i've read because nigeria already has a corporate income tax return by 30 percent, although it's monday a tax rate. however, what we see is 15 percent is already the threshold, the level so many developed countries are allowed already around that rate. so if,

if the deal is supposed to be fair and it should be, should go across all countries. it's not looking like it's fair to you and other countries. and the big question is, if nigeria can rely on time because of these reasons, i'm wondering why other countries i'm finding difficult to understand the reason why other countries particularly already would have been going to say, richard ireland, of course, has tax rates that are so favorable they attracted the likes of apple and google. how was the country finally convinced to come aboard with this plan because they were a hold out for a long time? well i, i think it, yes, the irish governments. huh. now, i mean, we're a minority voice and saying this for a long time, but said the argument and most of the arch political establishments really played a central role in leading the race to the bottom globally,

in terms of reducing the amount of tax that these incredibly profitable companies are paid and they have stubbornly resisted any a corporate tax reform and held out to the very last moment even on the 15 percent at which would be an increase on the very, very low level of 12 and a half percent that's currently charged. an ard and, but i mean one of the points i make and it bears out the skepticism of your other guests. is that 12 and a half percent, which was already a pitifully low level of taxes to impose on these companies was never paid and ardent at the actual raise was a fraction of that because of a whole range of lu poles, tax reliefs, allowances, and the use of creative accounting by these companies through various subsidiaries . so i would be very, very skeptical that this deal is actually going to achieve any kind of increase in

the actual effective regs of tax paid at by these companies. and i would absolutely echo the anxieties that your other guests have articulated. and i think much of the motivation and of some of the bigger, older western economies was not so much to deal with the terrible inequity that results from these companies paying little or no tax. but was more about particular countries being jealous of each other in terms of how much of the revenue they got . so then i saw your react and quite a bit to what richard was saying there looked like he wanted to jump in. i also wanted to ask you from your perspective, what would the global minimum tax rate need to be for this to be an acceptable deal? well, it says, look, what greta was saying, i agreeing because everybody's looking that at the 15 percent, which is already low. but in fact, the, the, the real effect expects rate will be much lower than that. and we'll see what near island is going to negotiate. nod now or when the implementation of this sir global

deal will come to the european levin is going to be tough, radian, and especially young on that. so what we would expect is if we really want to 5 tar ah, the race to know about that. we would really want to insure additional revenues below 25 percent. it would be impossible as effective tax rate does. what does some experts make there including the, the national commission under, for literally, you know, the international corporate taxation have been seen with people. i go to the steve, this was how we get he or we need a higher rate because that's the, the time for doing that with syndicates sofa. next somebody shouldn't been. countries we've seen decayed, suffer, artificial buffy chipped into that 7 with companies bringing close to zito. this is a time to have an effective tax rate that reading is so on. yeah, average the what as cities i'm sort of begun under other inc. almost most of i just want to talk about some of the other concerns that you and other countries may have . i mean, it is one of those worries that you would have these countries making rules that

would impact other countries say, developing countries or poorer countries. and ways that are the countries we're making these rules are taking into consideration. definitely one is what i mentioned earlier, the lateral measures that i've been without, if you sat on to do feel like i mentioned that you are already working on any kind of a presence room and trying to get that implemented. so the already on the way to do that now come to the deal that says, you know, abandon all these, but then we just give you a fraction of potential potential revenue. and another issue is that the, for the global minimum tax rate. so, so one of the condition is that if in, for example, in a, you out the, you talk to some multi nationals below the 15 percent effective tax rate. what

happened is that portion that is not tax. let me go ahead and is headquarters. most likely going to be countries. so at the end of the day, the revenue is going to go to the revenue when i do some of these countries. and i think the major problem is that these deals are done in a very, very fast and done in a rush, right? the countries don't have enough time to, to think through these items, for example, back is done initially agreed. but then later when you have time to look at these care about that, no, we're not, we're not going to sign on to the. so on the issue that i think the needs to be looked at. richard, i'm looking forward. i want to talk about some of the potential hiccups that could come up here is the you going to be able to push this tax reform into law. and if so, when can you expect that to happen? what's the timeframe we're looking at?

and i don't mean the timeframe they're talking about for implementation is as the 2023 i will they be able to? i mean, i'm really not sure. i think it depends a lot on if you like the political pressure that we can exert. i mean, the one positive thing i will say is that it opens hill bellows. until recently, the irish government wouldn't have countenanced any change in the irish corporate tax regime and were bitterly opposed to even at the you know, the very, very modest changes that we're talking about under this younger as we've discussed, completely inadequacy and process. so they are under pressure, and i think the big global multi nationals are under pressure, but we got to keep that pressure all added to make sure that we get real reform where there is and at, you know, a genuine mood to make these corporations paid our fair share of a pair,

fair parish at fair share attacks should i say, are at. but the, i mean, i am deeply concerned because you see even how you calculate what is a profit is a huge problem. i mean, one of the features of the assist the situation in ireland where corporations were supposedly paying 12 and a half percent, but actually were paying on average like about 5 percent. and in many cases, much, much less than that was that much of their tax was written off against various allowances and moved to other subsidiaries. so what we're actually profits through creative accounting were deemed to be costs. so they never came into the scope of taxation. and i would be deeply concerned unless we have a genuinely affected increase in the race. and these companies will find ways through loopholes around paying any additional attacks at all. so we'd really got to hone in that detail insist that there's a really affect increase in the,

in the raise of tax. and that there's affairs allocation of the tax revenues to the countries that are bring absolutely robbed. and particularly in africa, the middle east developing world for whom this deal is woefully inadequate. this is anna. i saw you nodding along to water. would richard was saying, did, did you want to jump in? did you want to add to that? and then the european union has a big challenge under, they're supposed to be presenting a proposal very shortly before the end of the year on the pill at school. but now this isn't that they could have been level of taken on tax has in by unanimity. and again, ireland can play a deal at home in them, making things easier, just deal doesn't any school not going to be on the country. so when we see that indiana must under this each and the level of ambition in their, in or the school of ideally said by year, what is negotiated on or in both in a way they countries like the u. s. because it needs to both of congressmen in the us and also by the level of ambition they countries like i and on what the sex m to

will. but i love because i will have an implication on the good of damage. so it's nothing like a global, purely multilateral process, is nothing like that a deal that was supposed to be there to, to provide the defensiveness for developing countries. he said that he said just a concession to summer that have been sent to some bigger con amusement. but what is acceptable for the business big business and those economies must suffer our poorer countries eventually going to be pressured into joining the system? yes, i mean, like we've seen already so far, i read the question l y, developing some developing countries. and the reason is, so sometimes this is beyond technical, they're largely each issue. so in most countries in africa, why you're finding the disconnect between the political and technical side of things. so miss your final me may recommend that a deal is not good. but if you have trade deals,

investment deal at the political level, they will just sign this thing done. and this has significant impact, then. that's why i said it's, it's really, really confusing. why any, any developing countries, any african country will say that. but what i can say is that it's, it's not binding other than any country that realizes that this deal is not good for them. i did point is still, it's still not late for countries to, to pull out just like pakistan. they know they're not, they're not, they're not interested in the deal. it's not fair. richard, of course us president joe biden. he's really been driving this. he's been championing this agreement and pushing this. he considers this to be a win for his administration, but it seems as though not all us law makers are on board with it, at least not yet. if he encounters significant resistance in the us congress.

does that imperil this deal overall? yes, i would say on those italy, it those, and i mean, obviously i think there's one part of the political system in the united states who see das, if you like, you know, the u. s. revenue is beings seriously depleted by the tax avoidance strategies. all of these companies, but there is others who are really mouth pieces for those multinationals, and don't want to see them pay their fair share of tax. so yes, i think it would in perilous. i mean, i don't believe as bad as the deal is. i don't believe the irish government, whoever it really acted as champions of tax piracy and operated as a tax haven. i don't think they would have even gone along with it. did this minimal deal if it weren't for at the pressure from the biden administration? so i think it would seriously jeopardizes i would as we discussed,

i mean even if the deal is agreed and it's so minimal, it's very questionable what difference it would make. and i think we really certainly what i would be arguing here is das, at yes at we should have a minimum, the effective range i bought, it has to be a genuinely minimum effective rate, and it should be a lot higher than it currently is. i mean, it's an absolute scandal that the cleaning woman, a in google in dublin plays a higher proportion of her at meager income in tax than the company she works for, that he's making billions and billions of europe in profits every year. i mean, it's an absolute scandal. at the very least, these corporations should be paying the same level of taxation that the ordinary worker has to pay on there and much less her income susanna. and everybody on the panel seems to be an agreement to day that the deal doesn't go far enough. um let

me ask you this. is this going to make it any more difficult from your point of view? is this going to make this any more difficult for multinational corporations when it comes to evading taxes? i think is going to make a decent and suddenly when using the z dot ac servants. so what we are doing is changing them using disease like servants, florida are shifting artificially shifting profits to now another nature that it's, they're not even 15 percent as we were saying, but below 15 percent. and that's a reality. we just made a concession to something that is well below. i mean, it's better than what we had the status quo, but really fight under the overhaul of the system that we were promised and fired from the opportunity we could be reaching after the gate and the gate and the gate . so for tax competition and an abuses of tech 7. and we've, here, we've seen us another and they go for a fedex league. so we said that opened up a bit different reality and it is affecting everybody's like

a for. so we have good companies operating from those that have and that will have an impact in their, in they do. they live in the, in the way those faxing side are distributing how deposits on those like in ira located. so this is just not acceptable at this, sir. at this moment, that should be impossible that the deb keep 20 unacceptable. did she 20 is kind of historic. this low, low, low level of foundation must suffer. what do you think is this deal at its core, going to be enough to prevent at least some tax dodging in the future? or are there just going to be too many loopholes that can be exploited? so it's difficult to, to answer this question. because when you, when you, when you talk about the fairness, it's fair or unfair, right? so i'm reluctant to, and in a way that it looks like there's some, some, some sort of a fairness by looking at it from and from an efficiency perspective. the fact that

if a minimum tax rate global minimum tax with works, that will be we will, we will get rid of 0 tax jurisdiction. yes, that seems like lag like a step forward. however, the implications regarding developing countries and how some of these revenues that are supposed to be saved, we'll still go back to the blue countries, that remains an issue. richard, how much is this agreement gonna force tax havens like ireland to rethink, to restructure their economies. what, what goes into this now? will you see that's a very good question and that, you know, i mean, at one level, the irish at stacey are physical establishment. have got a benefit from this because a rabbit, even though they're very low levels of tax, the sheer volume of profits booked in ireland have meant they have got attacks

a boon from it to some extent. and of course, there are some real activities in terms the headquarters of some of these organizations that here, but i having real employment here. but the problem is that it is made the irish economy extremely vulnerable and because it is so dependent on a small number of firms. so the irish eco growth figures are absolutely out of sync with the actuality of the irish economy. and it makes those terribly vulnerable, and i certainly have been arguing for a long time, we need to diversify the irish industrial model away from this incredible dependence on being attacked. hayden, on a tiny number of multi nationals, both the irish and the major political parties in ireland are seen very much where it is at to that dependence and essentially to that low tax at models. so it's very much in play, but the one thing i sort of welcome from this process is that i do think there is a light being shown on the absolute scandal of how little these multi nationals are

paying and how the fact that they don't pay their fair share of tax is robbing ordinary people across the world of vitally needed at revenues for health care, for housing, for education. and so i welcome the fact that that is coming into view that the debate is opening up and, but it's very uncertain i was going to play, i'm not going to be a matter of politics essentially, and winning the argument. and that it is fair and it is possible to make these corporations pay a fair share of tax towards, you know, the people who generate those profits across the world and towards the info structure. because, you know, i think an important point to make is a lack of investment in key infrastructure across the world. ultimately, it should be something these companies themselves see about you. and i mean we, we've had power outages recently in this country. we problems with the water infrastructure. those are repeated many other countries around the world. you know,

indiana, even those companies won't be able to make the profits if we don't have enough tax revenue to put in the vital infrastructures we need to sustain as society. all right, well we have run out of time, so we're gonna have to leave the conversation there. thank you so much to all our guests. richard boyd. barrett mustafah individual and susanna ruiz, rodriguez and thank you for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al jazeera dot com, and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter. our handle is at a j inside story for me. mm hm. mm hm. jim. the whole team here, bye for now. ah ah.

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