transport and retails union had called for an indefinite strike last week. but as well, has attempted to break the guinness world record for the largest orchestra. ah, more than $12000.00 musicians from the national system of youth and children's orchestra performed a classical piece. for more than 5 minutes. russia held the current record with a performance of more than a 1000 musician. judges will verify then, as well as attempt within the next 10 days. i hello again. the headlines on al jazeera kenya's president has been visiting ethiopia to push for an end to the conflict between the government and rebel forces . who are, can you, after how talks prime minister of the month it comes as fighters in the northern region have pushed further south this month. if you open journal,

it's time to get it. you is an artist ob, about with more on kenyata visit. he was welcomed by 18 as prime minister. i'll be honored, which he treated later on saying this is a 2nd home. and he welcomed with open arms. well, he's not just coming to his 2nd home. he's coming on behalf of perhaps the u. s. secretary of state that said to visit the continents, including kenya and the geron, senegal. and in kenya, the top of the agenda is going to be the conflict that's been happening and the relationship between the u. s. and yoga has nice property over the year over the last year since the conflict, the god. argentine as president bertha fernanda suffered a severe set back in the midterm. elections has really coalition has lost control of the senate for the 1st time in 40 years. on the ballot were half the members of the lower chamber and a 3rd of the senate. colin's prime minister as calling on nato to take concrete

steps to resolve the migrant crisis on its border with bela root. thousands of people are hoping to get into the you by the russian government accused of encouraging them to cross illegally. thousands of opposition support is protested against the trinity in president on sunday, accusing him of a power grab crisis. i had sacked his prime minister and suspended parliament in july. you foreign affairs ministers are due to meet him, brussels, to discuss development, and to don, comes a day after the general abdel for the whole, but hon shared the 1st meeting of the new sovereign council. he appointed, it's been criticized by the un for excluding the recently the civilian leadership. 3 men have been arrested under terrorism laws in the u. k. after a man was killed in a car explosion. police say a taxi exploded outside a hospital in the city of liverpool. on sunday, the passenger was killed. the driver is in stable condition. more news at the top

of the hour on al jazeera after inside story it's the was. 2 most populous democracy, diverse dynamic, and undergoing moment to seen context, india dixon in depth. look at the people and politics of india. exploring how to convert. 19 pandemic struck the nation. it's continuing impact and the lessons learned for the future. join me feel as those are for context india analyses. eda ah, the refugees stand off between bella bruce and the european union escalates. it's the latest example of the u. wins refugee convention under stream. so do we need a new international agreement to ensure better protection from migrants and refugees? this is inside story. ah

hello and welcome to the program. i'm hammer, jim, jim beller, bruce and the you are raising their stakes in the stand off over refugees and migrants. the e u is imposing more sanctions on entities in belarus. it accuses president alexander lucas shanker. of encouraging undocumented migrants to cross into poland, lithuania and latvia. in response, lucas shenker is threatening to cut off gas supplies to europe. poland has asked nato to take concrete steps to resolve the crisis. thousands of refugees are stuck in the middle of the political route. they've spent weeks at the border sleeping and camps in freezing temperatures. many have been denied basic protection such as housing and medical care for you in is urging all sides to uphold their obligations under international humanitarian law, renew city because of called her babies,

seek her eyes. her problem arise out water. her baby, he cushion closed loop. she cried because of the shall air shall and this has been the most tiring. 2 months of my life we even fell into a pond water reach up to here. i fell and we didn't have clothes. then i got sick when the border guards found, as i couldn't even stand by myself. the bela roost you stand off is just one example of how international refugee and migrant protections are under strain. italy and spain have forced migrant boats back to north africa. the united states has tried to stop record numbers of central american migrants crossing its southern border. and for 20 years, australia has kept refugees and asylum seekers in offshore prisons and pop one new guinea and narrow view. and refugee convention was drawn up 70 years ago in the shadow of world war 2. it lays out states his obligations towards refugees. an

additional protocol in 1967, broaden the scope of those who can seek protection. signatories have a legal duty to protect those fleeing persecution and serious harm. this includes that they can't be returned to a place where they felt in danger or be denied safe shelter. it also says a state shouldn't stop them entering. $149.00 countries have ratified the convention, the protocol or both. in 2018, the u. n. introduced a new international agreement known as the global compact on refugees to better protect refugees and migrants. it's not legally binding, but commit signatories to improving cooperation on international migration. all right, let's bring in our guess in geneva. shabby, i'm on to spokesperson for the you in refugee agency in oxford, non those are going up professor of international migration and force displacement at university of birmingham and in cambridge, marianna, kara kalokie,

a researcher and journalist focusing on refugees in greece. a warm welcome to you all, and thanks for joining us today on inside story shabby. let me start with you today . there are those who say that the refugee convention, which is 70 years old, is falling short of its mission that it is under too much strain. could a new international agreement ensure better protection for migrants and refugees going forward? where seeing 70 is in the registry convention and it's been 70 years of saving lives. it is instrument is actually one of the greatest human rights in seems to have ever been developed. it saved millions of lives across the world for the past few decades. it's called principles are universal there as relevant as emma on the basis of this, people can access safety and protection. the people who conflict has secretion, human rights violations, or the coverage that it extends on the protections that are full. it's to people these, these times universal principles that have been codified. there's not an element of

the convention that is outdated because this is really like stating at its core. but the real test and the real pressures days to make sure that it is applied in practice. and for that we are seeing some great examples around the world with the provisions of the convention where its principles given respected. but we are also seeing a great case where they have been hence to undermine or circumvent the convention. marianna, let me ask you, do you think from your perspective that the you in refugee convention needs updating? do the protections that are offered, need to be expanded and is there enough political will to even do something like that? so those get you protection has certainly saved a 1000000000 lives however, and i think that it's up so late because it ignores stretcher violence such as poverty. but it also ignores environmental issues as years. but we're going to see more and more environmental refugees are trying to cross from the global sales to

the global north. i. however, the biggest problem is not in my view of the refugee convention. it's a political way. because to have a successful convention unit, politically will, and in europe case, you can, you can see that at europe in european union specifically is falling short on that nando. i want a quote from a piece that you wrote recently about what's going on at the pool and bella roost border. you said while understanding the geopolitics behind the current border crisis is useful and relevant. the protection of vulnerable people stranded at the border and their humanitarian needs should remain paramount as well as their right to claim asylum. this. this idea of people being stuck there in the middle of this geopolitical route that's going on. has that all gotten lost in this it so i mean too many ways is know if you knew what's happening. i mean, we have seen it is escalating, is a tactics that we've seen apply those since we're not, the weapon is ition,

refugees, them for displacement. the use of civilian says the human shields. so this is why we need a un convention. we need the protection of you, our rights of civilian, so people that are suffering from persecutions and violence, et cetera. the point, so my reading of what's going on now at the border between billers and poland is clear clearly a bullet crisis, which has got its own sort of bed is joe political agenda that overlap with each other. and in which the people i've just gotten in the meet that she not just for go that really used to achieve other other goals. your question about, well do we need the new you and convention the prime to is is a while the tool may not be working always as well as we would like in the current political climate. if we were going to negotiate the convention, like the genie michael mentioned, you will not get to that level of protections. i mean, this is one, something that

a lot of people are well aware of. and this is why the, despite the cold for improving the accountability of party, et cetera. it's really difficult to imagine that there is enough political will to create another tool which is more effective and protected people. i mean, it seems like that states the really want to do it shabby at pend to the top of your twitter account. are these words, just your daily reminder that seeking asylum is not illegal. the right to seek asylum is a fundamental right. so let me ask you, how disturbing is it to you that more and more countries seem to continue to frame this idea that people seeking asylum is something that is not legal? indeed, i think it's a very, very worrying trend, but i think we all have to put things into perspective. the great majority of states in many countries around the world, our respect can do right. enabling people who seek safety across into

a territory. in some cases, they ensure that they are included in a national health system education and are able to work. so you have some really good examples of what's happening. and at the same time we have to remember 90 percent of the world's repeated work today. they're not hosted in and they're actually in developing regions. so we're, we're seeing also very disproportionate response, really inflammatory rhetoric female bring about refugees, which is really unhelpful. and at the same time, this really dangerous narrative that's trying to disrespect the rights that refugees, people, people who don't actually want to leave it being driven out of their homes because their lives are in peril. there's lane, complet, violence, persecution on the basis of their identity. so we're talking about a very small fraction of people as a response on our ship around that is just completely whelmed and disproportionate in terms of their right. but they haven't. but also the reality actually where that

means, you know, i saw you nodding along number, what shall be, i was saying there, did you want to jump in? still a feature that is something we were observing a were so me a moment. this is idea that the right to claim asylum is denied even at an early stage. when we basically portrayed the represent, we talked about the people at the border as illegal migrants, for example. so the use of the terms, the let vocabulary is very important. if you look at the way the bellows in poland for a sample are referring to the people quote in the, in the middle of this book, the crisis. poland would be and european, you know, very careful not to talk about the asylum seekers or refugees. there was talk about illegal migrants or just migrants. while billy was soaking about refugees is incense. it's trying to, to make a point that the european union is preaching. there are human rights, obligation, etc. so the language is important and the rights of 2 to claim ourselves is a fundamental one that would really make need to make a lot of $42.00 to

a shooter retains in the current crisis. and in general, marianna, i saw you just reacting right now to a nanda was saying, did you want to jump in? yeah, basically, as mandel said, that it's important to pay attention to language. and we have seen that throughout the years that the narrative on our, if you didn't mind, has changed. and what is happening in poland is not something you know, it happened in greystone to 16 times, 101-5216. it didn't happen again. plenty, plenty. and now it's happening in poland. but the main thing that i want to focus on is that once the media attention stops, what happens then and what happens to those people and those people who will be trying to crowd because the movement will not stop. but will you put in there, you, you being union be open to receiving them and that, respecting the you in refugee convention shabby. i am marianna, there was talking about the fact that it's, you know, the migrations is not going to stop and, and i wanted to bring up these latest numbers from the you and refugee agency when

it comes to global displacement. it's talking about 84000000 actually in excess of 84000000 people is the number of refugees asylum seekers and internally displaced. as more people around the world fled violence insecurity and the effects of climate change in the 1st half of 2021. these numbers are staggering. ah, do you expect that the these numbers that the number of cases of people trying to flee disasters and violence are only gonna grow in the years ahead? well, most of the, the numbers that moment actually most of the people that have been able to be displaced or just made that hurts are actually hosted within their own country. so they haven't crossed international borders, but they've been told to police safety. so that's what we call them, may displace people. and then we are talking about more than $20000000.00 refugees who have a cost of the national voted to fulfill. but 90 percent of them said 9 out of 10 people offered in developing countries and not in in europe that on the global

north and largely within what we call the global self. so that has to be borne in mind when we have these discussions because the facts and the artists get twisted and distorted under the paints and very boring pictures. and then going to the dental brings. or the fact is that most of the strange and hosting are responding to refugee crisis is blown by developing countries. and that's why there was a change national framework that was agreed to the compact. which for refugees, which was very cognizant of inequity in the global response. but in us, if your question was going to increase, yes, we bring that on a, on a yearly basis, that they are increasing. and this is a result of a lack of political will. and commitment to resolve the crises but cool people keep lee because that reflect conflict, i think may have security, but we're seeing conflicts around the world. they continue because of the lack of political resolutions. we have been calling for quite some time that these response to face crisis requires global coordination action to end the root causes. but for

people to play in the 1st place, marianna shall be there, mentioned the global contact on refugees. i was adopted in december 2018. it called for the international community to work together to improve the self reliance of refugees, among other things. but this global compact on refugees. it's not legally binding. some curious from your perspective, can it truly offer solutions? some minor solution certainly, however, unless the global nerves and specifically in the west respects the nothing is gonna change. and from why we're, we're seeing in gray specifically, they're not respecting a binding or not biting that document in grace is quite clear that sir, the great government or with the knowledge of the european union, is violating international law. and this has been clearly documented,

but nothing is happening. so i don't think that so many things will change because there is no political away from no one in. and let me ask you a version of the same question from your perspective, what kinds of protections do you see that the global compact on refugees could potentially offer? they did the business to develop these rules, came from, from the end of the $21516.00 wreckage crisis. there was this idea that it was a global refugee crisis, and people come together during the preparation. initial decision was to develop a single global compact, and then we'll split into one, so to focus on migrants and they want to reduce the element that is important here . and it's actually somehow relevant for the current crisis, i think, is this idea that a lot to force that would be improved in, in mobilizing people in so counter transit, you know, is to get to,

to do more in terms of protecting the rights of the people on the move facility, the for example, access to ride to labor, except in so called transit country to assure that the best you can do the next step as well so that he's protecting the right on one end. but also as part of this to that is clearly also a major issue control agenda, which is beyond that, done that them. and i've been involved in some of the negotiations and i listen to how different countries were responding to it. so that's why i'm sort of, there isn't a big movie in the schools. can i just saw something about the, the numbers you mentioned before is to the number of the, you know, 80000000 to the 20000000 over 20000000 or just say that. but one thing we should not mistake is the fact that those are stock number, which means this is the total of all reduce in the book that this point, if this is maybe even people that movie 20 years ago. so this is not important because sometimes especially in sort of in and sympathetic media,

we see this figure very much use as a to, to create an idea of invasion going got, i mean, the number of people that move every single day is much smaller. i mean, if you look at the flow of people seeking the protection of the refugees so, so we need to be careful not to conflict also because if you think in terms of what kind of problems that they're in terms of how to promote integration set, zillow, peaceful leading together, there are some issues that come when a new population comes in in the country and others that come when that population has been the record for 30 years in the comfort. so slightly different at, you know, significant different issues as well. shabby at let me pick up on something another was referring to of there are narratives out there. there are narratives out there politicians, especially in many countries where they attempt to demonize migrants and refugees. and we see that more and more the last several years. and, and i'm curious about, from your perspective and from the respect of the, you and refugee agency. i mean,

what can be done to counter that into we're seeing some more really worrying narratives. and the and toxic rhetoric to humanize is people at the end of the day . i mean, even when we talk about the human lives, there are people who are entitled to benefit from, from the protection of the human rights of everyone else. but they're kind of reduced to really to political narrative used for tory elections or what kinds of campaigning. and so it's really important for the narrative to, to be counted with the truth. if you look at the numbers that we were talking about, we're dealing with a very, very small amount of people that are seeking international protection. this is not something that's willing, and this can really be managed when there are proper silence systems in place that are expedient and efficient. and they can actually screen up people that do any protection. and so it's a really manageable problem. and what helps is really just as much encountering a company that now should i mean the work of the media yourself moment,

but also i mean, broadcast media academics, everyone has a role to play and i think that liberal compact reppidy also will for that and show and having a whole society approach to respond to recreate crisis, but it's important that everyone's on board and in tackling this and being able to, to manage the situation. but also just ensuring very humane approach. where we remember that these people were talking about, they should be instrumental lives and reduced to humanized mary. and i want to look again for a moment towards the poland bella roost border because there is a new law in poland. polish security forces can use force to keep migrants from entry. human rights advocates have decried this policy and said that it is illegal under international law. is that the case? is it illegal? i think it is illegal, and even though i'm not a legal expert, but that people have the right to seek asylum,

and when this right is denied that something is wrong, and now we've been saying it throughout hero, people are being denied the right to seek asylum throughout the european union, and this is a major issue. and for me, as i said earlier, the biggest thing would be to see what is going to happen in the below, sienna and polish border. once the media attention is away. because when this happens to grace, then grace continued to push back people illegal in denying the right their right to us to seek assailed. so i have a feeling that something similar is going to happen in poland. and bonham has a sort of an authoritarian government and this is her a fox. and though the european migration crisis in 20152016 seemed to shock the international community. and a lot of countries said that they were going to redouble their efforts to come up with cohesive and humane solutions. and yet that didn't happen. why is that the

case? are we ever going to see some kind of cohesive, coherent policy from the you when it comes to migration when it comes to refugees? i think that is clearly the issue of solidarity among your european member states in the context of some is an issue. i mean, we have seen it in the previous wreckage crisis, but in many ways it has been many years before since since at least the case earlier, there's been an attempt to optimize the approach to the right to asylum and some process within european unit with a lot of resistance by different member states, you know, these idea. so we should that they use that. and so with that particular, like as an expression is like, look better than sharing. you know, these are the d o, p and as a whole has to address the, the applications. and so it could be some other economically all providing shelter and protection to people that apply with the refugee crisis to

15. 16 is the one, there was a solidarity mechanism in place which was meant to facilitate the movement of some seekers from the southern states, italy increasing particular and move it was it took a huge a ford to really manage to do it to get to other countries to accept people that apply for a settlement in the both the states. but there are some groups like the visa group group. the center is that you will be a member states. they always receive, receive any, any code for doing more in terms of taking responsibility for the so you get now, some i will be seeing is that actually is that board that is under pressure? and, and this is that even more than a challenge to europeans already because kind of like, you know, you know, greece, them, they're really thinking about the, well, is it now what time to do something,

i mean, if they ask for out, do we do? it does not nothing go down into those $1516.00 when we were asking for support for them. shabby a in 20152016. i was covering the migration crisis in many different parts of europe. and i was really shocked by what i saw. i met a woman from iraq named so her and her, her 2 month old baby and bro, one. and i 1st came across her as she was trying to enter hungary and then i came across her a few days later on crow issues border with slovenia. and she and her daughter, she was just trying to get to germany to be reunited with her husband. she couldn't understand how having come from a place so violent that people in europe would not allow her to just get to her husband. but somebody was really heartbreaking. and i'm curious about what seems to be a collective loss of empathy these days when it comes to the rhetoric around refugees

and migrants. and do you think that the politics of today are so devoid of empathy that the belief in human rights for all has diminished so much? well, we really hope that won't be the case. i mean, we are seeing some, some very noisy narrative social that are devoid empathy and demonizing. but at the same time, it is a very mixed global picture. we're also seeing some amazing expressions of philadelphia and compassion, including and from states and countries in the global south where they are receiving refugees. even at the height of the pandemic, when many borders around the world were close, there were a number of countries that were still making sure that a buyer to buy their national legal obligations. they accepted refugees and even today we see the countries that haven't maybe fewer resources to deal with these months. and they're the ones that are hurting off the majority of refugees. that is very encouraging. it is a very mixed global picture. and we hope that we see the expression

for rti and, and compassion and adherence to legal obligations that they are expended. but the story that you mentioned, mama, we, we see that every day and i'll walk all over the world. people legislative flaming her into circumstances trying to save their lives and their families, and which is why the refugee convention is so important. and it is also what might the stories, what we do see best practice. and we're great examples of this being extended protection being sent as a refugee. so it's important to have that focus but to encourage good practice and inherent more than anything. all right, we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thanks so much to all of our guests today shall be, i'm on to non those to go to and marianna, correct. lucky and thank you for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al jazeera dot com, and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com,

forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter. handle is at a j inside source. for me, how much am juvenile whole team here, bye. for now? tens of thousands of children were born into or lived under the iceland regime in iraq and syria. now, many are in camps, either orphans, all with that. we don't mothers, rejected by their own communities, she could do like some people are going to welcome them after that. of course, mom and you documentary his, that chilling and traumatic stories from the children throw stones at me. iraq's last generation on al jazeera port moore's b. the capital of puffy beginning is ranked one of the most dangerous in the world . one a one east investigate the violent gains. instilling fear on the street. on l. g 0

. the stage is set and it's time for a different approach. one that is going to challenge the way you think from international politics, to the global pandemic, and everything in between. upfront with me, mark lamond hill on al jazeera, ah a new diplomatic push to end the fighting. and if you're kenny i was president susan at the top about while the us secretary states had to the region. ah, you're watching their life for my headquarters in del time, getting obligate to also ahead. argentina's president is punished and midterm election. the conservative opposition wins. control of congress. the 1st time in

nearly 40 years, a call for nato to resolve the migrant crisis on the poland bella rous.