use of buying people smuggling and money laundering. among other charges. some could face up to 25 years in prison. they say they were only helping other fellow humans. i never for a moment thought, but trying to help somebody out at the woodland you in prison, pre trial prison for 3 and a half months and that one would also end up facing 25 years in prison. i'm terrified, terrified, of going back to prison. there is, it is incredibly frightening. you know, when we were 1st and patrol the tension, you're held in your head, the free trial prison, but your infantile proven guilty. i didn't see any of innocence or being treated like an innocent person. vice girls have condemned that while think it's politically motivated. healer wise watchdog, honestly international high school. the trial farcical. we're here to say how outrages we are thought the greek government is pursuing a criminal cases, charges against people who absolutely nothing wrong. and so on. are

a typical case of exemplary case. well, what's going on now in europe, doesn't until people are being criminalizing communal lies for doing that. i think what is helping people need, helping directly to my guns need immediately to adopt jarvis and let these 2 young people come on with their lives. we'll begin our discussion in a moment, but 1st let's go to john suttle pull us in offense. john, how do the greek people are reacting to this particular trial? well, at the moment, this isn't very well publicized. the news of this is not very widespread. there are other things like current virus claiming the limelight. this is a story that's been ongoing since september 2018 when the indictments took place. there is awareness, very high awareness among the humanitarian community in the 8 community. and there the reactions that people are pulled because the emergency

response and trans national was an aide group that was working very closely with both parties, including the atlantic coast guard, the local authorities, unless was the government they had cleared all the hurdles in terms of registration with the government and following the regulations and the national law. so this indictment of all its members came a little out of the blue. i've spoken both then and more recently this year with the lawyer representing the group. who tells me that there were serious procedural problems with the way these indictments were handled. first of all, the names of individuals who are indict will lead to the press, which is a contravention of european privacy law and seems to shift the burden of proof to individuals and away from the prosecutor. before the trial even begins, there will lead to document being included in the indictment which is highly

irregular. and then there's the problem that the inquisitor issued arrest warrants before the defendant had had a opportunity to make a 1st response. this is very unusual. i'm told, and it's only in cases where there's a very serious, slight risk on the part of the defendants quick. so the critics, i think that's just by the very nature of the charges, particularly as buying could be an indication of a government is adamant bow the native further silence international aid organizational operating in greece. well, as you know, those indictments back in september of 2018. we're not the only ones against the search and rescue operations. they were followed in september of 2020, by the indictment of another 4 groups. another 33 individuals including groups that

i've spoken to since then, who also say that they were absolutely honest with her and it was called about the whereabouts and what they were doing. they usually operate vessels that place themselves deliberately, in areas where refugee duties are expected to be found in order to love helen, it coast guard to come and pick them up all for the coast guard to us the turkish coast, to go and pick them up. they, they simply there as spouses and facilitators, so they also were very surprised september of last year to be in dices. and they also have absolutely no idea what they've done wrong. and these are very serious charges that are being levels the charges of trafficking and espionage which could land people life imprisonment sentences. i've been told by the lawyer

representing spectacles that looking into the evidence presented by the prosecutor . many of these charges don't really stand. for example, one of the accused is sarah martini swimmer from syria, who was at the time 23 years old volunteering with the. and he told me that on many of the, the times and dates when she is supposed to have been on in less was breaking the law. she was in fact, in germany, applied to university. so there seem to be some, some serious problems with the case that does bringing forward. john, thank you. ah, let's bring in our gas unless was your gross cause more police senior campaigner on migration at amnesty international in cambridge, marianna kirk or like a journalist and researcher, focusing on refugees and far right. movements in greece in brussels. bitter lat is

editor of brussels report. you're welcome to the program. your gus, you joined many other international. he writes organizations describing the prosecution as absurd and farcical. is it because of the very nature of the chargers or because the proceeding itself is flawed? i remember i just, i just came out of the car and i think it's bought. but what is more important? he's farcical. and because of things that they have our kids are doing. ah, basically what the greek government is doing, the legal halls still stating people were doing good work, necessary war. how can get hold of helping the costa and juggling through course i saw time and again the national song today. and of course, i'm sorry with joint and bill criminalize doing a good thing and actually not done this trial at witness today. i've never ever happened my gonna,

so what happened in between these were 8 workers operating your last burst, helping refugees. now the government is saying, wait a 2nd, this something that has to be addressed these people war. ready involved in many, many charges are basically the human up picking. it's quite a because the district aid wait, so they and and, and as in i think this case we get a case of criminal that there is in the union. why that i give them a, i've been, i think that was the band with the similar example, but they were not targeted in big peter many say this is a politically motivated trial. to what extent are the,

is the greek government take advantage of the divide within the european union about migration to move forward with this aggressive dance? well, of course, it's a complex issue. i saw some of the charges includes fake license plates and then there's indeed very serious charges as well, like human smuggling and espionage. it's hard to, for, of course, as an outsider, to, to claim if these chargers are justified or not. but to the extent that criminalizing aid workers is meant to sort of stop some of the, the problems and miss, you know, to the miss problem miss situations over there. i don't think it's the right strategy to follow. i mean the fingers that you have a tin line between human smuggling and putting your boat somewhere,

knowing that human smugglers woods, you know, abuse it. so i think it would be much more, much more sensible for degree government to say look, we know that they're willing to help, but you have to restrict your activities to these areas because otherwise criminals will take advantage of your, of your good intentions. the strategy, yoga the even of the trial, the, the, the general prosecutor must have his own justifications about the prosecution. now, the case of parliament deni, the syrian refugee and her sister, her drug, a boat to safety, celebrated by the international community. as heroes now assumed by the greek authority, as criminals who might spend a particularly sallow, who might spend many years behind bars. i think no one will be convinced of

marines, because it's simply not subtle. martina will someone who, who gave her private time a lot of her personal time and commitment to come here to lead time to help people to help people the need. she was actually feeling and got together and so on. and other risk for us. when many very often did it cost or other vessels, what i feel calling up on them to help them cpr training with getting people out of the water. so my being in that was to be celebrated. let's not forget that sorry, song for example, to spend 3 months and please don't because your phone is the recall for the or critical flight. now i just came out of the courtroom and i will not be there because the greek also wont let the travel to waste to participate in town. hi. she wants to come here. she wants to kill her face because there's nothing wrong. i'll say no. it's not done nothing wrong, she's done

a lot of food and she shouldn't be celebrated. and i think what i've seen today's the opposite of that is basically part of why the trend across your lifestyle lies a walk. and at the end of the day, you bet it's chilling a little spot elsewhere. everyone was trying to help everyone who's trying to walk and well, how might have to think twice in doing so. and this is not only a moral, but there's also in the goes according to marianna. because this trying to be an indication that the conservative government in greece led by korea because mit stuck is, is adamant about the need not to repeat. what happened in 2015 in 2016. it's an example of authoritarian nature of the government of those mental di case. and we have seen that everyone that is acting against the government's whales is criminalized. even though the people who were arrested in 2018

were arrested before those mitchell donkeys, he had, he seems to have exacerbated the power that he, that the government has over the legal system. and this is quite problematic to be honest, every single person that does not agree with the government. that is, is for a chase and targeted by an online heard of, of throws. and then we're being taken out of outside of the country. like what, like the example of the dutch journalist the asked me to like it's about push bugs . theater. are we likely to see european countries step in, in this particular case and say it's about time to give justice to the emergency response center international and the brave people who will work in hard day at night to help refugees?

well, i think this is all desperate attempts to crack down on the human smuggling, and indeed i think we should put some question, question marks around some of the things that are happening there now from the mentally. the question is, why do we have all that human smuggling in the, in the 1st place, and in, in, okay, on occasion, then human smugglers use a workers of for their purposes. now the answer is, of course, easy to respond to it because if you are in asylum seeker and you want to request a solemn in europe, there's hardly any older roots done to, to use human smugglers. so i think that that has to change for now do use migration policies have not managed to, to improve much on that front? i think fundamentally, we need to look at very different approaches. the one currently explored by denmark is actually quite interesting. the idea is that there's a deal with

a towards country where people can go, can apply for asylum. you would have sort of safe corridors from, you know, refugee centers in, in crisis areas. so people no longer have to use human smuggling. of course, it will also entail that if you illegally entered and you would be brought to an offshore processing center. i know there's a lot of criticism on this was trailer has done it. it has made mistakes. the conditions there were, were very bats. but there were also some successes in the sense that the number of drawings from people trying to get into his trio ass has, has gone to virtually 0. so obviously we have to tackle. ready boats, you know, we have to avoid that people risk their lives and, and, and drone at c or d to move the whole these gangs. a bill also if day then are welcome to ne

reception center. of course the conditions have to be high standards. they need to get an answer very quickly. they should not be there for too long. so yes, i think that's the route to follow. yo does fall on my d. the show me bind and the other aid workers were traumatized by this experience and by the charges brought about by the by the, by the court. what are the options for them now in the future? what happened was somebody continues to fight against this job. as this child must be dropped and the group must use the chinese, your german off base a child to be taught by high school to simply drop the charges that don't have much problems. and let's, let's look at the private cost on people's lives. 25 and 60 years old. the, the principal spent $25.00. yes. freedom of

a possibly the best life. and the still in limbo. what option do these people, how they're just voted cross through a system which doesn't even allow them to come and face these? they say they'll have to fight. yes, i'm going to stop them all the way because other say this case is simply an example is a friday, somebody was going euro. and as far as lisa is concerned, just goes to sol. how far the google, these are prepared to go to criminalize ed walk is and basically keep people awful with source. and let's talk on forget, it's not going about for months in a chilling effect. but once the civil society, i'm other thanks, been hardly any independent and any objection to the course of life and we need we need to be willing to people to ready fox and to be there too, too often. so i don't have the time, so i'm going to fight home, but we need to fight with them. and i'm not going to say something about heard by

the danish, this trading proposals because it's very pertinent to what happened. i don't think that's a good idea solving that problem, but disappearing out of sight. it's really it's harvest pollution. ok. we need well allow access to people, you know, federal seizure and by no means jewel stick and fair share of asylum seekers. better for just so that's the thing is a excuses. so migration is the very center of this particular case. mariana. now you have the top a, you migration official saying that we need migrants because europe is aging and we have to show solidarity. you have the great government thing though, it's about time to clamp on the bible of migrants and the case of prosecution of those 8 workers is a clear message. this divine itself, this disconnect is it likely to further or more pressure on the migraines trying to reach europe, migrant because we continue trying to ensure

a because they're escaping coughing zones and those 2 differences between the union and grace. i don't think it's actually a real difference because the european union is fully aware about grace's tactics and they seem to endorsing that not publicly, but the fact that they are not stopping grace from committing international law crimes is quite showing of its approach to migration. the unit does not want rescue jays. these are one of the biggest problems here is the european stance itself when it comes to a well coming, the refugees. and i think the most contentious issue, in particular words, should every country be obliged to receive some refugees, something which has been dismissed by the hungarian and by the polish governors. is

this the main reason why this is likely to continue deepening the divide between the european countries about migration? well, i think it's true that some of the things that we're seeing are the result of public opinion in europe. that is indeed very much against not so much migration and in the southern seekers, but i would say, disorderly migration flows and especially the crisis in 2015, 2016 has really traumatized public opinion. so that's why i think it's very important for a proponents of migration and i include myself among them specially i think europe could definitely benefit from skilled migration is happening in an orderly manner while also obviously welcoming asylum seekers. i think if you're in favor of that, i think you should realize how important it is that it happens in an orderly way. and that's why i would like to see a lot more attention for the danish, fourty,

a trillion model which are not perfect. absolutely not and definitely should be improved, but are absolutely not meant to avoid migration or avoid asylum seekers, but are meant to make sure it happens in an orderly manner. and this is i can't stress how important this is. and actually the, the case of going after aid workers, i like my colleague said young workers that do this out of the good of their hearts is i think, a symptom of how a traumatized public opinion can, can, can engage in desperate measures that are obviously not going to do much to help barber okay. help with border protection. little bit or quite question. i guess we just saw the, the prosecution as possible. but the environment itself in europe to what extent has been conducive to what we seeing now in greece. because when you look at the

center, right, it's embracing the same steps. take him by the fire, right the far right is now on the rise. you have a tv fall, right? the pond it in front exam. more. oh, said that immigration was a threat to the french identity. is that environment responsible for those actions taken by countries, particularly by the grid? government i think it's clear that house being some section of the public opinion. i still don't think i'm copying in general migration was always happy to of course be problematic and see what happened to saga 15 was not perfect. then the real issue here is how to organize the system, but it's under the obviously doesn't people. so i please, and that's and begin by saying something linda wrote. so there has to be the law from the day, which i think it was mentioned already this talk on the table, but actually does not want to come up with you in the to say,

can legal the roots and what we need to do have a good appeal really have a system, were records in my evenly all fairly among member states and in see for hungary and there were absolutely freezing to do so it should, this is really fast. again, we're going to go against the climate of china or b o racists by becoming more counselor because for approaching positions that have inexpensive we have on ground, we'll have to give the boys to, to people lease one in migration, please open aside the one welcome refuges migrants and not all the trouble for assisting abuse according to law, because let also not only see one i guess on the need to be respected by the things like the monitor substrate here. and you know, your gas ca, small for us mariana calico like

a peter clip. i really appreciate your insight. thank you. and thank you for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al jazeera dot com for further discussion. got our facebook page, thus facebook dot com forward slash jane sites. sorry. you can also join the conversations with our 100. is it a jane size slowly for me, hash by the entire team here in doha. ah, ah. and a african narrative blue from african perspective.

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hello, i'm darn jordan in doha, with the top stories here on al jazeera, hundreds of iraqis who gave up trying to enter the european union have arrived back home. they'd been stranded, along with thousands of other migrants and refugees at the beller was potent border . and freezing conditions, when con reports from the airport an air bill, which was the 1st stop on the repatriation flight, as they arrive at you can see the exhaustion in their faces, while some are glad to be home. others say they'll return, but i'm going back, i'm ready to try a 100 times again. next summer i intend to go the kurdish regional.