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but what's most important to me is talking to people, understanding what they're going through so that i can convey the headlines in the most human way possible. here douglas 0. we believe everyone has a story worth hearing. ah, i am from yeah. okay. you're watching a stream on today's episode. you're going to be looking at this book mediocre, the dangerous legacy of white male america. the ofa is a joe lou, a j right. nice to see you walk into the stream is great to have you for a whole 25 minutes that he's not going to be enough. what we gotta do our best. a joe with the title of the book. how many people do you think you triggered with the title? the lang good. you know it was. ringback hilarious to me because i think that we've been talking about mediocre white man for a very long time. and i felt like it was shocking to me when people are like wowza to provocative title. because i'm like, isn't this what we call this?

so some people certainly were upset about it, but also i think no matter what i've handled the book, those are people who are not going to pick it up. you know, i am definitely by the people who know what the something is wrong. and there are a lot of people who recognize this phenomenon and want to know more about it and how it works and what we can do about it. you took a moment fee, which is quite a personal moment, which is the start of your deciding that you want to write the book. and in what you write is very universal. can you take us back to that moment when you thought i need to put this down in a book? certainly, and i talk about this movie getting of the book, you know, the inspiration for this or lifetime of frustration, but a particular moment. and the moment was, you know, trying to be in a writer to treat with other women. and this was a time to relax, to focus on class. it was a treat you know, that was really developed because women, so we are, we get a chance to focus on their work and all we could really talk about and what we

needed to talk about were these, then these white men that were impacting a lot of years so heavily and it, as people kept saying, you know, what was happening, what is the home this, you know, i kept seeing the story unfold in front of the path that led to where we were in killer time and where we are today. and i wanted other people to see it so that we could start looking at the power in some of the as a whole, instead of treating each individual bad actor like an individual. and so part of the system problem. and so i want to really show that story to people who they could we are live on youtube right now. if you'd like to talk to jona, you absolutely can jump into the comment section and be part of today's discussion . are questions of edward mckinley. jonah, who is a big fan of your work, he's in our 1st book, the author wrote that if you are way born raised and living in america,

you are erasers. and we will not be able to reckon with our history of white supremacy. our history of racial violence until white people like me already to lean into that fact and start doing some very strong and powerful inner work. as far as questions for the author, i have a 1000000. but i also think it's important that way people like myself start doing the work for themselves instead of putting people of color into positions of having to mentor as teachers can guide us and ultimately make us feel better about everything we need to do this work is our turn you know, i think that's very true that we do do do the work and i think it's also important to recognize when people here um, so when say are white and growth is an inner which then society just where you are . you are races, whatever says she believes people get upset because they're like, i'm sold with love. but the truth is, since we're talking about systems and how it is treated mom. and we're talking

about overarching stories about the value of population of color that we can't no one is exempt for. and so it is important if you do have that love. if you view 5, you know, i have nothing but love in my heart with youth with all races and ethnicities that you be willing. then to investigate your complicity in violence systems that are harmed populations of color. i will just go back a few days on twitter. have a look here at my laptop. and there you go to jo. miss burke. and there we have a protester, perhaps a riot. her. i finished reading this book yesterday. prophetic. and then a german. you write a whole book about the violence of white mal medically mediocrity. and then you look at the news coming from dc and you say to yourself, yeah, 8 tracks. you take us back in your book to the wild west. when the european settlers came to united states in the 1st place,

and that is where you start with your journey. when that's a little bit like that mean, this is how it started. this is how we're doing it. if it, if this is how we're doing is the capital building riot, how do you, how do you draw that timeline between those 2 things? it's almost like you knew what was going to happen. you know, i would say it's interesting because if it was i'm asking how can you know, how do you know when to put this book out? you write this book, read it right, carmen. unfortunately, i think anytime would be the right time. i think that if you don't know his history, this looks like a surprise to you. like, how was it was come from that if you know your history, you know, that sort of, i was, was an inevitable, inevitable step on the violent path we've been on since the founding of this country. this country was founded on violence and oppression. and the power that it had to maintain that way. and anytime there's a threat through it, response is incredibly violent, especially to white male power. and so if we look at history,

we see this over and over again. you know, starting with the founding of this country to violent expansion to the west and genocide of native peoples. we see this time and time again whenever we make social progress to the vice movement. suitors violent backlash. and what we're seeing today is that same ideology, but idea that might makes right. and that white people in particular, white men have manifest destiny and have a god given right to the land. and the people is, you know, we're seen today that reaffirmation of that entitlement when it feels threatened by social progress, never show you some source that are coming from you. chip, william, i putting everybody in the same bracket, synonymy fit, change or flying a race? is that not race? is there a number of people who are quite frustrated that they feel that you are talking to

everybody who is a white male? are you, i mean, i'm not necessarily saying that every white man is, you know, protesting and or trying to have a coo actually open supporting by the way. but what i'm saying is that we have a problem in white, no identity, and the white power structure is what i was talking about is a power structure and the most predominant and powerful power structure in this country, inches. you know, what comes with patriarchy and i would say, you know, even in the told me, see this as well. and so absolutely, that's who think go from your image, whether you like it or not, if you are a white now. and that means because you benefit from us, you have responsibility for it. i need to look at it openly. if you can't handle hearing about it because it makes you feel implicated without stopping and going wait, am i implications? and chances are you're not actually in fast food in making change. you've got your

comfort over the ways in which the violent system is crushing and killing people of color. little bit here in your book, this is about status by making lightness and melanin overboard. we distinctly thought it descent to 5 white men from working to net privilege status. if you are confident you seem to be great, just being white male, why would you struggle to make a real contribution to, you know, in excel that you have seen that description named names? oh, i mean, i would say, you know, right now. 6 what we're looking at in this country is textbook for this. if we're looking at, you know, many of the people in our senate for looking at the president of the country, we're looking at the leaders of many of our fields this. and so we spend our white men who did the promise that you could be an everyday jo, of no special talent,

and you deserve greatness. what you need is staring, what you need is the ability to overpower others and then and then if he feels a cor, actually leads to that. but people want that, you know, i think part of the appeal of people like say donald trump is that he made any kind of bumbling person who was afraid of their own mediocrity and sell your feel like they could look at from her. you know, this is not when you go yeah, this like this person, extra smart choices. what you, what you see is someone who fails upward time and time again. and that is what we've been told. everyone, you know, every white mill should be able to have and so we see this on a grand scale. but i would also say if you've ever worked in any kind of office setting or even academia, you see this time and time again with some of the better and high. and they can actually lead. but because we flip this persona, they are move ahead of the people who actually creating and what more. but i will

also say part of what the speaks to is, is a direct conflict because there are many to you know exactly what it needs to be great and what it takes and what they find it. what is asked from an expected from isn't actually greatness, and there is when her internal conflict that creates as well where white men often feel like failures because perhaps their actions are not bringing the success promise. but it is exactly what our society is telling them to do, to strike out a world whether compromise, to use aggression and oppression to get ahead and it, when it doesn't work, when it isn't rewarded the same way it is rewarded for donald trump will be like you wrong, you know, when it's not bringing happiness or fulfillment or wondering what am i doing wrong? and so we have to recognize this is, this is something that harms everyone including white man. because a pot in the book when you take a moment to talk about some very high profile congress, women who,

who came in to power in 2018 to alexandra casio, cortez bill, hannah omar, i anna presley. and she to, to that and how them just being in a traditionally male space was irritating the president of the united states. and also a lot of people around them, including their own democratic party. so last summer, i just want to take a little know what, where does the 4th it gave a press conference and spoke about they were not going to be deterred by the precedent or anybody who was criticizing what they were doing and how they were doing it. having this despite the occupant of the white house, a tips to marginalize us and to silence us. please know that we are more than 4 people. we ran on a man day to advocate for him to represent those ignored left,

out and left behind. our squad is big, our squad includes any person committed to building a more equitable in just world almost any day united states politics, she can see one of those for women and having struggle with battling with the establishment. what is going on there? i think just old fashioned miss fuzzy and racism and i think it's also a threat to our power structures. i think it's really important to recognize that across party lines. people are invested in making sure that any progress we make doesn't rock the boat for much reason in less political circles. and what these women represent with their new ideas, with their unapologetic focus on the most emotional populations in our society, is a threat to political structures that keep all the leadership on the left on top as

well. and so absolutely, we see this, but also what is the white the thought that someone who doesn't look like them would represent something completely, not only for him, but half of that. and so this what they have in, not you know, trying to emulate why i'm not trying to over focus on the most privilege part of our population over the needs of them under privileged for them makes it feel like this is not their representative. it doesn't match found and therefore does represent america, because we have allowed united states to be phenomenal with whiteness in this country. and so i do think it is both inside me and racism that impacts these for women of color who are really trying to voices for the on her. some questions from you to this is mr. solo. how dangerous is black male america?

you know, i think that what we're looking at when we look at patriarchy a picture is dangerous across racial and ethnic spectrums. and i would absolutely say, you know, as a black woman, that many of them in black sons. and you know, that is a risk to us wherever we see plus masculinity, invalid recherche systemically, go black. male america is incredibly disempowered and i would say, you know, the risk to our systems to the average white american is quite low. and so when we talk about this, what i'm talking about our power structures and when we say who is of her to look at representation, when we look at even, you know, patriots when we look at who is in our management office is for and who is in our, you know, political and our government, we're not seeing an over abundance of black men making choices, you know, that harm us. and so i would say in fact, what we're seeing is the systemic and good literate disenfranchisement. and you

know, improvements of black men in this country by a white supremacy system. so i would say danger as a political structure doesn't exist. well people wrestling with right now and, and, and it's interesting because you've written another book about a race which is see, want to talk about race and, and how difficult it is for some people to even just talk about the of visit white in front of our faces, but people now in 2021, arresting with this idea of some white males taking out their frustration and then becoming violent. and this is what jarrett, this is how jarrett frames, i'm really interest to see how you see that journey towards violence is doubt. the crisis of wife, masculinity in america is the crisis of america itself. and is why men feel that

they are the victims of perceived persecution or the belief that they are being left behind in the global economy or in any number of cultural wars and conflicts. they are becoming more and more radicalized and willing to join shifting movements, anti democratic movements, and are becoming more and more politically, and also physically violent. what was interesting in your book, jemma was that design. it started wide at the very beginning from taking away lands from native americans. it didn't seem like it was a new kinds of violence and that's what my takeaway was from watching and reading your book. can you analysis that it was fine. all right, from the beginning of the, the start of america as european americans now. absolutely,

and i think that we have to recognize that the founding of this country was kind of violent in brutal and sick. and florida not only with the genocide of one population of color but with the force and placement of another. and then this country was built over generation generation exploitation of labor of population of color. we have to recognize that, that history didn't go away. that in fact, you know, our founding institutions in this country were built a horrible power structures and to make sure that that power was maintained. and if we don't recognize that and learn our history and then learn how this violence is impacted in our institutions, we will not be able to rid ourselves of just fire. you know, an education system built off. the pilots doesn't expire. criminal justice system built expire. we con, fill up, the system doesn't just expire. we have to actually investigate it and tear apart the ways in which because wed like dependency on youtube. again, as you're really inspiring a lot of conversations i've,

i know i know you're used to this. this is fly with eric, how long is it going to take before things ever changes? it seems america has always had this issue. what is the main things that will lead to change? you ask this question all the time. really? i think it's really important to recognize that part of why we haven't been able to make these couple of things happen. one is that we have, you know, almost exclusively frame discussions on race with around personal feelings and personal animals who are a racist, if you walk around actively hating people of color, right? you are sex. and if you walk around with actively hating women, and then if not, you are a good person part of the solution. but what we're actually talking about our system. we're talking about systems built to advantage from populations over other systems built to exploit the labor of members of our population and to give people a sense of comfort with that exploitation and oppression. and we are told to look

at, you know, personal relationships only because people make money of the system and being power from the system. i don't want to looking at it so that when we do india systems, right, when we start to make political change to scott mc change, what we see is an immediate, violate backlash like we saw this last week. right? because people are so afraid, it's a 7 changed since we have to recognize that if i been dying, that we have it then addressing and making sort of change in our systems. because we've been told time and time again, it's not possible. that's where the problem live, or we have been punished viciously for any progress we make in that area. and so it is model that we look at that and recognize that this is where i work my and we have to push through. we have never ending up from these systems. ready were built by people, they are not immovable, but we are told that they are and we are led to believe that they are so that we don't do the work. but we are powerful if we come together and actually start engaging systems to really push for change we can created. and that if we can

create it, there wouldn't be such a violent backlash towards our comforts because people see that change coming. and they are afraid of a journey is a scientist in a community organizer and this is his take about now what to eat in here is i think there are a lot of people in the united states are ready to reckon with racism and white supremacy. and the majority of those people are like round indigenous and people of color, you know, was primacy. something that threatens our very existence and that is pervasive and is and better within every system or this country. and so i think it will require white people. i'm giving up the, the advantages that they have for the mere fact that they're white. and so that will be the challenge that i will always be the challenge determine the sooner

really wanted to touch on because he speaks so comfortably and confidently about a white supremacy of patriarchy. but when you walk in a book like this, there is a, a toe. when you talk about racism, white supremacy and hate, and people who don't like you talking about that. make it very, very clear. can you shed not potter feel? what do you mind? yeah, you know, i think that anyone who, especially if you are a person of color, chris, if you are a black woman we, when you threaten the system, the system comes back for you and people who are investing system come for you. and absolutely my experience, while it might seem extreme, if you're not doing this work, is not unfamiliar to many black people who have been fighting for liberation and for change in this country. and so, you know, we've been threatened, we've had, you know, officers brought to our home when we were slanted,

we have had to move from our home due to regular harassment and threats in our home . they says a regular occurrence and it's, i'm not alone. and if you look at history and even if you will get you'll see time and time again, generation after generation, the way in which people are made to pay chris speaking around these systems. but i think it's also important to note that this comes for people everyday people who aren't writing about what you see everyday people of color who do something, anything that inconveniences the power structure that inconveniences whiteness in this country, you are often madness of violence, backlash and we see this in plenty of our new stories where, you know, black people can't have a barbecue or, you know, sell lemonade without someone calling the police on them. right? these violent repre cautions are waiting for all of us. no matter what we do. if we ever challenge the system or even inconvenient when will come and this is trembling

rainy, i'm going to ask if you could ask the fairy 3, because can you believe that we're always at the end of the show? how do you have these types of conversations with people? we're still in denial of how racist america is. you know, i would say this is advice i'm going to give the white people because i believe that this is a conversation that we need to have with each other. i don't believe this is going to be written about it. we've talked about it, we have our books, we have our articles, you know, we said what needs to happen. i would say to tell your own journey with other white people share how you came from believing this was the problem because there was a time when you did it, where you are now and take people with you and take them on and happening where they can join you in making change and i'll investigate where you have to go and show people the changes your work into making yourself and in your life and in your community right now. joe lewis, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts for unpacking a lot of your book for not everything. so if you want to read

a joan was work really dig deep decimal, beautiful stories about history. nighty states. the you may not know. how do we get to where we are right now? so we're actually digging into, so 2 weeks i'm going to recommend to you. one is on my laptop. so you want to talk about race. that's to the 1st book that a german wrote and that was just a few years ago. and that will help you have those uncomfortable conversations. liz rainy and then oh my goodness, using vocab heaven. so when he brought class, what really ok. the dangerous legacy. a white male power, that is my job olu. and that is one way that you can also catch up with her work and look out for some of the ferry, many online events, where you can hear and talk to joe marano about her latest book you cheapest. thank you for your conversation. really appreciate it. i family ok, signing off in the ha stream. how addition studio assume you next time

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a close. we look back at the events that have shake the news and look ahead to next year. december on a jesse europe, the listening post cuts through the noise, we're talking about competing now. with the monday tools being used to perpetuate there's competing narrative separating spin from fact all 3 versions of the story and some elements of the truth. but the full story remains and content on the parking the stories you're being told. it's not a science story at all. it's a story about politics, the listening post, your guide to the media on a j 0. i was in a hands on journalist working in asia and africa. there'd be days where i'd be shooting and editing my own stories in a refugee camp with no electricity. and right now we're confronting some of the greatest challenges that humanities ever faced. and i really believe that the only way we can do that is with compassion and generosity and compromise. because that's

the only way we can try to solve any of these problems is together. that's why are so important. we make those connections ah. ready and you corona, virus, variance in, as africa countries ban flight. so scientists warning could be even more resistant to vaccines. ah, i don't know about this, and this is, i'll just leave alive from doha. also coming up reports of a fall qu in kurdistan will have the latest from the capital. bish jack from migrant crisis to political crisis. france counsels talks with the u. k over how to deal with the problem. plus.