mr was testimony for the history of the place in 2012 campaign is one accord case that put a freeze on the plans, but hoping that episode and left his history could be repeated. hurry faucet, al jazeera lifter was jerusalem. oh, you're watching al jazeera, a reminder of our top stories. uganda is deploying more troops to democratic republic of congo to fight the article. the allied democratic forces. a government spokesman has sold al jazeera special forces from both countries are conducting the operation. iran has submitted to draft proposals to european powers, negotiating the revival of the 2015 nuclear deal. this is the 7th round of talks in vienna aimed at returning iran. and the u. s. to the agreements. the united nation says it needs a record $41000000000.00 to meet global humanitarian needs. next year. officials

say that's largely because of growing instability in ethiopia. afghanistan and myanmar u. s. secretary has said antony blake in has been meeting his russian counterpart, say gay, love love to discuss moscow show build up along the border with ukraine. lincoln says he is deeply concerned about what he calls russia's aggressive policy. moscow has rejected claims that is planning an attack on ukraine. we have a strong, our iron clad commitment to the sovereignty and turtle integrity of ukraine. the best way to avert a crisis or is through diplomacy. and that's what i look forward to discussing with, with sergei, including by both parties, full implementation of the miscreants are with russia pulling back its forces. the united states is willing to facilitate that. but and again, in the spirit of being clear and candid,

which is the best thing to do. if russia decides to pursue confrontation, there will be serious consequences. so i had no doubt that the only way out of today's crisis is actually to seek the balance of interests. and i would like to highlight that we are interested in taking steps to settle the greening crisis. in american colleagues has said in numerous occasions that they are ready to help by establishing a dialog channel. i would also be interested in and to his explanation about remarks he has delivered by stating of the provision of the means agreement that russia has to fulfill. and health experts in south africa, se the only con barry and is feeling an increase in daily cove. 19 cases, the number of reported cases has doubled in a day south africa was the 1st country to identify the strain. and those are the headlines next on al jazeera, it's inside story, stay with us. ah,

hunting down rebels. uganda and troops launch an operation in eastern democratic republic of congo. their target. the allied democratic forces blamed for years of violence, but will and military solution resolve the conflict. and can the adf be defeated? this is inside story. ah, hello and welcome to the program. i'm how them are here. dean, uganda and democratic republic of congo are joining forces to fight. so one of the

most lethal arms groups in congo, ugandan soldiers have crossed into the d. r. c to take on the alliance. democratic forces, also known as the 80 f. the offensive began with air strikes on tuesday. the group is blamed for violence and eastern d. r. c. that's led to a 100 spin, killed and fastens forced from their homes, with many taking refuge in neighboring countries. the violence is not just limited to congo. uganda says the adf is responsible for several attacks on that soil, including 3 of suicide bombings in kampala last month. not everyone supports this mission. so men, democratic republic of congo, don't trust uganda. they accuse kampala and rwanda of creating instability in their country. well, this is the area in eastern democratic republic of congo, where much of the violence is taking place. the provinces of north q and

a tory have been under a state of siege since may. it's the forest ferry that's difficult to get through. this is for the adf, has its bases and highlights al jazeera malcolm web explains why this will be a difficult operation for government forces. this is very difficult terrain to hunt down an armed group. that's using guerrilla tactics. and that's one of the reasons why previous attempts to flush out the adf, have struggled. the most recent one on the part of the con, the leave military was called a state of seeds for the last 6 months and declared this sort of form of martial law in north keyvi province in inventory province. but it's been criticized for not being very effective lead document showed that that operation been blighted by a military budget being stolen. one of the reasons that called some people,

some people to call for the gun the military to come in. now to try and pursue the idea, but other people suddenly have great reservations about this. well, let's take a closer look at the unlike democratic forces also known as the a, d s, the owner group has existed in central africa since 1995. you can enforce and drove it off the country in the late ninety's and in c, democratic republic of congo. it's fighters have blamed for killing thousands of civilians in eastern congo. and while the group says it's aligned with iso, the un says there's little evidence of a direct relationship. ah, will that sir bring in our panel of gas? joining us from come parlour is gone. burnt too much shabby. associate director at the great lakes institute for strategic studies. now look here under val joins us from the hague. she's the project director for the great lakes region at the

international crisis group and from a butcher counter terrorism experience, david or sir, or to joins us now and thank you all 3 for joining this edition of inside story. i'd like to turn to you 1st david or so because so with this situation it's great to understand exactly who are these countries are dealing words. so just who are the aides a year if and, and, and what do they want? yes, so thank you. the idea of all the graphic for this this is a group of that stuff in the 90 percent, the $19.00 and $5.00. and they seem to kind of, you know, just during the period, you know, during the aileron which is the resistance army and, you know, they, you know, they came out the, you know, you know, protecting the interest of most lens. and since then they have worked locally,

you know, up to establish plumbing, kind of mistake sharia states. when you got caught us, we know that you've done the defense forties out of the many cities in in compile out of the norman patch and into me they then went into the power of the d. c. and most recently, they've now aligned themselves with the so called islamic state. and, you know, according to the, and one of the leaders known as you said that they are in the central africa region because instead of the east, which is these central africa province. so it is a group that stuff isn't so within the region, but we know that, you know, it's not just as centralized. they've got so many sales double grid within that

region. been known to be aligned to some written, not so bad. they also known to happening with the new group that was formed in the moving problem was a big so they have so many different conditions. but the, to me that be a much more be criminal network. and from the socio, i've spoken to a drum, you know, the use of these, let me state local or the tyson is just a way for them to continuously preach. and i do to go component to what most people have seen as a criminal network. so, you know, this is a group that i believe, you know, courage, symmetric attached as we've seen recently, and you've got about that also within the northern part of the congo. but i believe that a joint corporation, as we've seen recently, will be the best way to go about. but you know, a conventional topics that we've seen in the logical ways. trikes will be very

challenging one because you know, most of these has to be with, from an intelligence point of view. ok. but we really need to look into. critically, we'll get on to the chances of success with this mission in a moment. but the fact that god to michelle be if i can bring you and the fact that we're now getting national governments launching incursions and other territories to take them on. well, the seems to suggest this is a critical problem that's reaching a critical phase. and what's your assessment of the impact that this group is having because they are, it is quite a deadly effect that they have had on civilian populations in the areas that not yeah, thanks so much for having me. let me start by saying that the, the characterization of the current situation where you said

a number of countries have come together. i think it's, it's 1st of all the natural it in the sense that right from around 199596 when the foster war broke out in d r a c. actually we're in number of countries involved. so from that time we have had multiple countries within the region evolved in trying to deal with a stability is spent directly including dealing with the n d, f and other and other militia groups within the region. kazer is that d r a c is essentially a cocktail of, of marked felicia groups. some of them is sponsored by the regimes within the region. some of them mr. gary, a mish, a little by mission within the region. so and with and, and up to in 2003 burrito countries and those features of the united nations

form and what is what they the national conference of the great lakes region. this was supposed to be a platform around which or the countries will the region and what believes that to be able to take a concerted up for us to deal with a stability under the con, the virus in the us. all of these countries have failed. and the reason i say this is that, as of now, are you gonna has moved into d, r a c? the n deal is a major, mr. browsing, fucked up. but he does a lot of the ordering militia group or terrorist group within the, in the region. i think that the dominant narrative, which has been eddie of, is that there are spoken as issues that is cooperative causing conflict in the region has its own flaws. because it ignores the but special order these countries uganda and the one have been actively involved in the region themselves on and on different critics, whether it's with a sir. tried to democratize it, be

a fun other rebel groups like p, r i and others. and then there are also these groups of them so, so i think that the, the fact that these countries are getting together, ah, they're trying to do with them or the problem. and uganda are all going in with d r a c. we don't that but special or the other countries that have been involved in the conference. i doubt that it's gonna be a successful partition or we can, i think we can disrupt the activities. but i don't think that that will be the end of these kinds of incursions because the problem, india is a much bigger than f d f. ok. and let me turn to you as an elective under val at which you agree with that assessment. the adf is being painted as the boogie man here, but there are several groups which are having a destabilizing influence. thank you and good afternoon. it's definitely the case

that there are more groups active in eastern d or c. but over the past few years, i think, i think we've seen that 80 f in particular has been making a lot of that lee victims in eastern day are seen. they killed over a 1000 civilians since 2017. so it's definitely a group that needs to be targeted. whether that should be by military means remains the question. because i've already pointed out by the previous speakers, any of has been active in easton, d, or c for the past almost 3 decades. and they have been quite opportunistic in forging alliances with local networks in eastern b, r. c, with local businessman, with the military, the kimberly's army as well. and by fortune, these alliances, they have been able to persist for these years. and we've seen the previous military operations have been quite ineffective in targeting area. they managed to recapture a camps that they previously lost to f. d. c,

the comedies army. but what we've also seen is that they always retaliate against the con, the least population after military operations. so we've seen an uptick in human rights violations right after the release authority stepped up military operations against a lawyer. so no, definitely a group to be reckoned with. i'm so, well that's the fairly pessimist, strictly you across the board from from all 3 of you. so if i were to ask if this military operation is likely to work, i guess david's also the answer would be no. so why do you think the, the governments of uganda has decided to go when, if this is essentially going to be a futile exercise? first of all, you know, if you're willing to that you got to box and then you've got to use it. and secondly, you know, when it comes to complaints against your bridges, especially indicated you've got the where we've just seen susannah had been sent by

suspected the members, the government has to develop some level of trust within that you've got an population, but also internationally. the only feasible way of doing that is to say that, you know, you blended preemptive strike oily deployed for these, you know, on down. so that is one of the 2nd one is you know, whether this is going to be effective in any way. and you know, well, most people don't really get to effective visual strides. got to go because they are very expensive. and secondly, as we've seen, you know, it's very likely that it will have any impact at all. because these are groups that embedded themselves, you know, for the kids, but in the local population, they have information about activities that carried out. they can see that the government is deployed simply go into ground and find very

good areas where they can hide or model. but himself, you know, of that area. so this is, this your horse, you know, in my opinion the government needs that when back some level of trust, you know, from the local population that i don't know how long, but it's going to last. but i think the key here is how much collaboration on coordination it's been done and how much intelligence it's been gotten. and what sort of intelligence about the capacity of the group in terms of, you know, the groups location. you know, what is the kind of network that the group established, you know, this is the only way that you can do it movement. what logistics, you know, supply and ensure that it doesn't have the kind of capacity to learn more with a group like mdf is going to be very challenging because this is about symmetric walk that is not conventional old family isn't. i see you in elective under val,

are noting along with that a big corporate to move to a shabby you outlined into stripe just how complex this regional situation is. do you think that there is likely to be an element of intelligence gathering between ag, congo and between uganda to you think that the fact that there we are seeing this military operation happening is an admission that the situation has changed and that the countries are now looking to work closer together in a bed to tackle this i how to you assess the situation for me. i think for me, they don't with the only thing that has that changed is that the bombings that happened in the computer in the last one months, are in the sense that these, where bombings of renewing intensity are. this was the 1st time we're having

suicide bombers. if we're, if what we are provided for in terms of publicly available information is accurate . and therefore that's for me, in terms of the groups that are opposed to they them 2nd government or their, their, or their, their basket of it, that these are the scottish, all the of the virus that was in the region. but only put it this way, that l d f, right from 24 t in this country in uganda they have been high for fire as a nation's of our muslim clerics, almost more than 10 of them have been afflicted in very, very, a movie likes tire they have been as a financial so high ranking minister will. so after high ranking police officers and all these have been blown it df. so the i did the fact that now a uganda is moving into

d r a c. i doubt that in the situation has changed the sofa in town. so the understanding of where the of is goes right now. other than the gentleman got below that is known to be the leader of the group. that there is hardly any publicly available information on the profile of who, who is n d f. what is that? it's a leadership structure. who are they active participants in the group? and therefore, to the extent that they base the limited information available, my views better. our way these are the attempts to improve all day on the, on the human intelligence doctor could live the schedule for partition. i don't think that they have cracks of it. the real problem. i think that to the extent that d r a c remains ah, what is like the episode of the region? because let them just quickly say that you, this region are the great lakes region of africa is and it is the cause of the

region. your gun larry gun, is that, sorry, i don't say society, but before is this region it's seen of so many conflicts. and so they say the adapter goes into the problem, stems from the governess question that all the countries within the right from the 19 that the mid 19 ninety's, when there was fighting against the lit woods, to say got a speck of dirt, b r a c 4 might, as i heated, there was a total breakdown of states in the region from d r a c, to uganda, to wilder to so sedan and she done marian. this is a breakdown of state institutions. and therefore, when you have break them, you have was a military and militia groups just imagine over the place. and that's the problem that needs to be solved. i don't think that just even if one was able to procedure

but by the strikes and there bullies incursions that you, you are dealing with the crux of the problem, which is the whole problem of stick capacity and governance. ok m like a vanderbilt? let me turn to you as clear. this is a very complex background to the situation. a very complex problem. are there any pluses that we can take out of this? i, i know, i keep returning to the fact that you gans are, has agreed with the president of the, our seat for permission for this operation to go ahead. is there anything we can take from that? is there an inkling of greater corporation between these states now or, or is this the, is this something that should be disregarded? yeah, that's a fair question. and i think it also relates to your previous question concerning intelligence sharing. i think what we've seen since president to security assumed

office in january 2019 especially has been reaching out to the region to find solutions to fight instability and eastern d r. c. he has been in touch with you gander. he has been talking to poca gamma of rwanda. he's also been in touch of with president and she in baroni. so we've seen that he put a welcome premium on regional diplomacy. their husband, intelligence sharing between the various heads of intelligence of the respective countries in, in the, in the region. so that has been happening. i think what is also important to note is but you pdf, so you got an army already was present in eastern dear see in a small number to gather intelligence together with the f d. c, the comb release, army this has been ongoing for months to prepare. i think the ground for what's happening today. maybe just to add one more thing is, but in order for these military operations to be effective,

because i think there can be some efficiency in what they're doing right now is for both armies to also consult the local communities. because using the knowledge of the local communities can help by clearly defining the targets that the both the armies would like to hit. so i think that's necessary. and on top of that, i think there also has to be some sort of structure in place that will allow, i think, the rank and file of the adf to mobilize. if there is a structure in place, we can welcome those that are willing to leave the group and find a solution to work with them as well. okay, we only have a couple of minutes left. so i'm going to ask the same questions. all 3 of you, and if you could be brief and your answers, i'd appreciate that david also how does the sense, how do you think this will turn? right? i think the way it's going to be the way that the shooting is that we've got to

bring the 3 dots into you know, the big what i mean bringing rhonda the article who it also you know, we bringing room which you know, i don't think you don't want to take even in the coin strategy. i think what we should be looking at what's more here. it's a huge elementary coordination of collaboration between the these countries. but also to ensure that they have enough capacity and to remove that elemental lot which exist at the moment. okay. got to, to michelle. how do you see this playing aids? know that the, the culprit is the regional and they are vested interest right from for the individual president. but also the countries it cannot be handled as a regional office. you cannot deal with these. are there buy it up for a month or between the gander? and so until i see that the national gopro of the region making

progress in terms of the actual they have discussed and agreed including setting and action intelligence. i can't really predict the, this is going to be just the disruption of the groups. we would be back here in another couple. we are talking about the same problem. ok. and finally, and the like a vendor vala. how do you see this playing? i g, are you optimistic? and so we'll see this cooperation or will we be discussing the same thing again, 2 years from now? well, let's see about that, but i think our base military operations can only be effective if they're very narrow focus. if there's a clear timeframe that more 72 security agreed upon, apparently there has been an em, are you that the 2 countries signed a details? the operations? i do agree with the others, but armed groups in eastern dear see,

are regional issues. and with you bound the end, rwanda not talking to each other. i think that's the main thing that has to be resolved 1st because boys countries are choosing one another and supporting the a t s. so it can only be really effective if the region comes together and if they find a solution together. okay, so a blueprints of sorts to deal with this conflict. thank you so much. all 3 of you for your analysis and your insights has been great to have this discussion and thank you to for watching. remember, you can see the program again anytime by visiting or websites al jazeera dot com. and for further discussion, just go to facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash a g inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter or handle is a j inside story and telling me how much is in the for me. and the whole team here at inside story is bye for night. ah,

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. biggest events that be for our cup on algebra. ah hello there, i'm this tanya t a in the. a hall at the top stories here on out there and uganda is increasing its deployment of troops in neighboring democratic republic of congo to 5 and armed groups called the allied democratic forces. uganda blames the adf, 3 suicide bombings and the capital last month. the government spokesman is told out there that special forces from both countries are conducting that joint military operation. patrick maria also said the d. c. government has been speaking to local communities in an attempt to gain their support for the operation. we are fighting .