gun licenses that he was up the street as dying every passing day. the government's excuses that the security situation in the region is not good. but what have you got to do with that? the guns manufactured here have never been misused. they are use wanting and not of all, are god forbid for any militant activities. as the brothers put the finishing touches on their guns, they say they hope they want to become the last of the regions gunsmith elizabeth per on al jazeera new delhi. ah, the audiologist there with me, the whole rom, the reminder of all top stories. dozens of people are being killed. after storms and tornadoes told through 6 us states, the governor of kentucky says more than 70 people are being killed in states. loan emergency crews are trying to rescue people who are still tramped. this has been the most devastating tornado event in our state's history. and for those that have

seen it, what it's done here and grace, county, and elsewhere, it is indescribable. the level of devastation is unlike anything i've ever seen. you see parts of industrial buildings, roofs, or sidings. entries if trees are lucky enough to stand huge metal polls then and half if not broken, buildings that are no longer there. huge trucks that have been picked up and thrown . and sadly, far too many homes, that people were likely in entirely devastated the british foreign secretary of causal western unity against threats from russia and china. the u. k is hosting g 7 for ministers in liverpool with delegates from sci nation. the g 7 countries as well, leading democracies and economies need to come together to advance the front as

a freedom. we need to show a positive, proactive approach in making ourselves safer, more competitive, better able to stand up for the values. we believe it. we need to defend ourselves against the growing threats from hostile actors. and we need to come together strongly to stand up to aggressors who are seeking to limit the bounds of freedom and democracy. talks to revive the 2015 iran nuclear de la, continuing for another day in vienna. according to state television, iran president abraham raise, he says wrong is serious about the negotiations. and the sanctions lifted and agreement can be reached. those are the headlines about with mon use in half now to stay with us inside story is next here on autism. ah,

will julia savage be extradited? us all the founder of the wicked leaks when i thought sanctuary and not been for years now the u. s. is one it's appealing for the happenstance trial for leaking american that's what are the risks of his trans atlantic extradition? this is inside door. ah. hello, welcome to program. i'm kim vanelle. a travesty of justice is how amnesty international describes it. dangerous and misguided says julian sanchez,

partner. she says the founder of the weekend week's website is planning a last gasp appeal to britain's highest court to stop extradition to the united states. britain supreme court has said to have the final verdict on the fate of the 50 year old australian. that's after the high court in london overturned an earlier will, and that he would be a suicide risk if his sanctuary in britain finally ends. the whistleblower faith is up to 175 years and a u. s. prison if he is finally extradited and eventually convicted of leaking american military secrets, deem barbara has more from london company. oh, the supporters of julian assange. it's a worrying moments. 2 judges at the high court in london have ruled the wiki leaks found a can be extradited to the united states to face espionage charges assigned to his partner with whom he has 2 young children, was bare to hear that decision. it's been almost a year since i stood outside court with our victory as the blocking of the

extradition for the past year and the past year, 2 years and a half, julian has remained in bell marsh prison, and in fact, he has been detained since the 7th of december 2010 in one form for another 11 years for how long can this go on? the decisions based on assurance is presented by lawyers for the u. s. government at october's appeal hearing. they said assigns wouldn't be subject to solitary confinement or held at a maximum security prison. they also said they had diplomatic assurances he could serve any prison sentence in his native australia. judges here effectively decided there was now no reason to believe assigns would be a clear suicide risk, which the original ruling had found. the u. s. wants assange to face trial over the release in 2010 of thousands of classified military documents relating to the u. s . wars in afghanistan and iraq. but amnesty international has denounced the decision saying the u. s. charges represent

a serious threat to press freedom. something echoed by his supporters. ricki lake was a organization of whistleblowers. it made it absolutely safe and secure for whistleblowers to her to bring the truth to the public. all he has done as tell the truth and on his stay in a dungeon top right is upset daily. it's but he has done his job to tell us what's going on. this decision is clearly a big setback for the campaign to free julian a science. but it's already taken years to get to this point. and it could be a long time before we know definitively whether he'll be sent to the united states . the case has been sent back to the lower court. so a judge can refer the extradition to home secretary, pretty patel. but julian assigned his legal team so they'll try to lodge an appeal with the supreme court, challenging the american assurances that he won't be treated humanely. nadine baba al jazeera london, the espionage case against jolena sanders,

goes back to 2010. he's wanted in the united states for publishing, thousands of secret american military and diplomatic documents, but allegations of rape and sexual assaults made by 2 women, sweden led to his arrest in london to avoid extradition to stand trial. in 2012 assange sought refuge in the ecuadorian embassy until 2019. he was immediately arrested by british police. he's been in a high security prison in london ever since. ah, right, let's bring in our guests in washington. we have max blumenthal, editor of the grey's own dot com and online news website dedicated to original investigative journalism and analysis in reykjavik and i sent we have kristin compton editor in chief of wiki links and in geneva, we have nills mel's. are you in special repertoire on till torture and professor of

international law at the university of glasgow? very one. welcome to all, thanks for joining us on the inside story. i'd like to begin with you kristin crabs and i just want to get your reaction to this ruling. did you think it was going to go this way? well, i've learned the hard way not to keep my hopes very high. so it didn't come with surprise. but this is devastating results and especially ironically this is be handed down on the united nations human rights day. and on the same day that to all the generalist getting the noble priest prize in. and also this quote is devastating for julian and for his family. but furthermore, they devastating for press freedom worldwide. and that is the main reason why all major human rights organizations in the world press freedom organizations. freedom . the organization, if i from, for, for human rights, have condemned to this,

this man hunt for this politically motivated persecution against julian assault. mr . hudson, has anyone spoken actually directly to mr. farms? do we have any word of how he's dealing with this news? i haven't been able to speak with him directly is of cause and maximum security prison in south east london. but i hear that of course, he is willing to keep the fight going. and of course that will be done. there was a mention of the appeal to the supreme court, his high court decision, but that is also the possibility to appeal the, the new decision which we are waiting the lower court in the but should court. and at that point, actually the, the lawyers were julian songs have the, are for the 1st time, the ability in the appeal court to lay out all the arguments that have been missed so far. the arguments that should play a major role in how this is handled. and just of course,

our definition of this political persecution. and i'm referring to ca, plans that have been the now we know now about about kit not being or assassinating. even julian songs in london, et cetera. and we're going to talk about those reports a little bit later, i know as well because max blumenthal has also done stories on the same thing. first i thought to bring you in, nov melva, can you claim the legal side of this ruling for us? because this wasn't about whether what sounds did was legal or not, right? this was about american assurances of how he would be treated. should he be extradited and convicted? yes, absolutely. and so, you know, obviously to this is a very disappointing decision, but it's by and large confirms the conclusions and observations of my official investigation of this case for the past 2 and a half years as independent. you and experts that this really is not about the law . this is not about a legitimate prosecution. it actually is

a politically motivated persecution of an inconvenient truth teller to put it simply. anyone can find that ok if the u. n. can come to that, that finding then why has the court found something different? well, what we can see here is that really the state institutions are large or protecting the interests off of those particular governments rather than respecting international law. and that is the most scandalous aspect of this, that countries that normally claim to be exemplary in terms of human rights protection. and the rule of law or tradition have betrayed those principles for even right order to protect the impunity of their officials for crimes corruption, max. and i like to bring you in. i mean, there are so many murky dealings are in this story over the years. or the many years we'll talk about your investigations in a moment at 1st i want to ask you, given everything you know about this case, how do you expect this to progress?

how do you expect to go forth on when it goes ultimately to the supreme court? well, 1st of all, i think al jazeera for convening this panel. this is the press freedom trial of the century, and it's been treated with a giant shrug by the media here inside the beltway in washington. and the details are not murky. we know, and we'll discuss more later that the cia, the central intelligence agency did discuss murdering julian assange. its agents have spied on him and his lawyers, and this has grave implications for any fair trial in a court that is handled. many national security trials appears to be a tool of the national security state in the u. s. where defendants have something like a 99.7 can percent conviction rate. and these are, you know, the defendants brought in during the war on terror, who are, whose fate has already been sealed. so there's no question in my mind that julian

sanchez, fate has already been sealed that what we're witnessing is actually a state security operation. a transatlantic operation to silence and disappear julianna's sons' lawn laundered behind a judicial masquerade. let's talk a little bit more about those reports that have come out over the years as we say that there were investigations to find that the cia plotted to kidnap cassandra, that there were discussions around how he might be assassinated. tell is not your investigation. mister blumenthal about the i am currently from on that the contract to who essentially flipped to provide information to the us. what does that tell you about what's going on behind the scenes? in late 2019 a spanish former special forces officer and self described mercenary who was leading the security firm. providing security supposed security to julian assange

and the ecuadorian embassy, where he was seeking asylum in london was arrested by spanish national police. this is david morales of the u. c. global firm. he was put on trial and spanish national court and what emerged from those proceedings was the reality that david morales had been contracted by the cia to spy on julian assange to spy on his meetings with his lawyer in violation of attorney client privilege. there were burglaries, possibly, even of julian sanchez council, his legal team. and there were discussions of killing julian assange assassinating him in the embassy. and these instructions came to on from higher ups that emerge. that detail emerged in my may 2020 report for the greys own dot com through the testimony that i acquired, a witness testimony of a former business partner of david morales. we also know that tom's della

morris julian is on his partner, was followed and essentially hunted along with other assange associates by these c i a assets. so that report that i issued in may 2020 was confirmed by around 30 current and former u. s. intelligence officials in yahoo news this year. and so what we have is confirmation that the united states government, through its intelligence arm, its state security service, had discussed murdering someone whose extradition is it. it is seeking. in addition, it is spied on him and his lawyers. that means that the country to which julian assange has been handed over is his would be killers. and this is absolutely should be absolutely shocking. not only will to any one who cares about press freedom, the future of a free press, but to anyone who believes in international law and assigns was handed over based on the insurance that he would not face de facto torture in 23 hour

a day. solitary confinement through special administrative measures or be held in a super max prison, the florence, colorado prison, that a british judge had previously ruled, amounted to a form of torture. so the government that had plotted to kill julian assigned her disgust, killing him, has given assurances to the u. k and the u. k. has accepted those assurances. this is an absolute travis, i want to throw this out to nails now that we're talking about prisons are what legal caveats might be available to the american authorities should assange and up in an american prison. as we just heard, there was some assurances that he won't go to this federal super max prison with prison is a captain near total isolation. but what, where else could he end up? are there ways around that? all this basically 99 percent of their options are still open. i. it's very important to understand that these assurances don't assure anything. it's just a formality. they have excluded one of their super max presence,

the most notorious one, but they have dozens of others that can accommodate him in any other super max prison with very similar facilities. they have excluded one specific isolation regime. call special administered measures, which is imposed rightly attorney general of the federal government, but they have not excluded any other isolation regime. and just to make that clear, there's about 50 people in the u. busy s, under the specific regime that has been excluded, but there is about 80000 people in solitary confinement in the u. s. and at any given moment under a different regimes. so they haven't excluded any of their options, even to guarantee that they said that you might serve the, the us government would agree to let him serve his custodial sentence in australia . his native country only applies best, the fine print once all of the legal remedies have been, have been exhausted. and that can last about 20 years in the u. s. and it still is also conditional on the austrian agreement to actually reach for the transfer. so

when they have not excluded anything. okay, so there's a lot still on the table for them. chris and cops and for a lot of support. this is all about the fundamentals of democracy of freedom. what impact do you think this may have in the future on would be whistleblowers? well, before i get to that, i just want to add to the so called assurances so that there's one thing missing. we haven't discuss that actually in those assurances are so called assurances there is the a clause that says that the government maintain the right to change their mind at any given moment after semester then transported united states. so it's absolutely a hollow and meaningless. an empty organization to take a look at it, including instance, national, has come to that conclusion. you ask about the implication of this? the implication is already here. we see that it has had a chilling effect, especially on journalism. glenn greenville,

for somebody in for somebody in brazil has, has been attacked by the government in brazil on basically the same ground of us doing the amazons. we see, of course, the reputational damage to both the united kingdom and the united states. was given the argument to oppressive regimes that who are you to tell us that our, our press freedom is limited. and we've heard those kind of voices from the russia, from us by young, from china. they have basically, why is this that to you? you'll have to not have a leg to stand on it and criticizing us because you are keeping julia sims in prison and you're going after him. oh, my general feeling when it comes to whistleblowers, they are extremely brave people and i think they will continue to come forward.

but they need to go to somebody and they need to go to somebody who is cured. and those are the general that need to be protect. no valvor. obviously assange says he, he's a journalist. does a lot differentiate between somebody who leeks, to nation, and somebody who is a journalist, a korea journalist, well in international law, really that there is no difference. anybody has a basic human right and freedom of expression of the prima freedom of the press is just one variation of them. so this whole discussion on whether or not, you know, as a journalist, i mean the fact or he clearly is he probably is more of a journalist than anyone else who's keeping quiet and not ology. governments conduct. that's my personal opinion. but, but there is no legal, you know, criteria that would somehow give less protection to someone who isn't a journalist. now in, in national law. clearly if you're a whistleblower,

that means that you have a, perhaps the obligation of non disclosure under your contractual agreements because you're an employee of a government or something that might be good legal obligation under national. but even there is a different discussion. a juno sanders not a whistleblower who's a journalist and clearly even if you don't accept that she's a journalist, she's still entitled to freedom of expression to the same extent maximum and all does the us not have a right to protect its military security secrets. i mean, there must be instances in which exposing everything does actually put some individuals at risk, maybe even national security at risk. yeah, i think here i might wanna toss this to to credit to kristin because our wiki leaks has actually taken measures to protect the names of confidential sources in many cases. and the password for some of the cable gate files was actually exposed by guardian journalists, including the unscrupulous luke harding who has published

a completely false story at the guardian website about assange meeting or man of for it, which has yet to be retracted and have him on this panel in order to be able to defend himself. so i will put this, i was like, well, to chris and i would say, christine, go ahead. will i will say this, you know, before i joined, we kill you in 2010 and took part in all these so called crimes that julian had committed the crimes of journalism. it was a journalist for 20 years. there was, i don't believe that i have taken part in a project before in those 20 years where such great care was taken with handling all the material, both internally, weekly and in cooperation with the mainstream media where our media partner and took part in this. so called crime of do of journalism, the media partners that were over $100.00 in the end, including all just so i just want to miss any

of the responsibility that is totally for sure. i mean, this is just a question that i'm asking because it's something that people at home thing, you know, journalists go when we get to is sensitive stories, we break anything, we go through it and we say, do we need to blow those faces? do we need to redact those names, you know, and all those considerations that take it taken. so that's my question to you is, is it is the same thing. this is the same thing being done at wiki lakes. you know, because that is something that is often put forward by the other side is that it's about national security that we don't clearly information was withheld. and i just want to point out one thing for over 10 years, 11 years now. we've heard this, this scream, that the, about the harm that these massive revelations, hundreds of 1000 documents. but there's not been a single incident where the united states government has been able to point to

death hom physical harm to anybody because these polices. and you said, well, doesn't you ever since the military and the government have a right to protect their secret? well, of course they can and they should. but to journalist, for a right to publish those secrets if they are lead to them and they are deemed to be in the public interest. absolutely, absolutely, that's general is that's our role. that's what we hear as it as a, as a journalist, can i just say that the public has a right the public has a right to know and abuses of power and even murder and torture carried out in their name with their tax dollars. and were it not for wiki leaks? and julian assign the case of holiday missouri who was tortured, brutally, and sodom, ised by c, i, agents. this is a german citizen, in a case of mistaken identity would have never been known because no one believed him . so what wiki leaks has done is provided transparency and done precisely what journalists should be doing. unfortunately,

many of the journalists who have relied on wiki leaks. disclosures are now turned on julian assange because he's seen as having hurt that political campaign of hillary clinton with factual documents, max, elemental, i think we're coming to the end of time. i want to ask you this. why do you think that this case has resonated with so many people? now, there are so many people who support julian assange. do you think that the timing of that maybe there is a shift and people perhaps not trusting their governments as much as they did. i, i don't know top of that to you. why think julian sanchez and what he's done in what wiki leaks has done is provided an intelligence agency for people that have been spied on by intelligence agencies and abused by intelligence agencies and deceived by their own media wiki leaks has a perfect record in disclosing factual information, so the contrast between wiki weeks and the rest of the media is more stark than

ever these days. and i think the public has responded to julian sanchez persecution for simply embarrassing the most powerful empire in human history. and this is a real problem for the united states as it enters into this so called great power competition with russia and china and asserts moral superiority on the basis of its liberal democracy. as long as it continues to persecute a journalist, russia, china, and all the u. s. is perceived. adversaries can continue to point the finger and correctly alleged massive hypocrisy on the world stage. i mean, there is so much more we could talk about. we have to leave it there. unfortunately, the time really great to speak with all of you. thank you to all of our guests. mack blumenthal, kristen cops, and, and new belgium. and thank you for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al jazeera dot com for further discussion. go to our facebook page, that's facebook dot com,

forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation over on twitter handle as an agent inside story. i'm at kimber down for me, kimbrough and the whole thing here in doha. ah ah. and the listening post cuts through the noise, we're talking about competing now. they see monday schools being used to perpetuate there's competing narrative separating spin from fact all 3 versions of the story and some element of the truth. but the whole story remains and culture unpacking

the stories you're being told. it's not a science story at all. it's a story about politics, the listening post, your guide to the media on a j 0 from the for various of correct us. so the battle fields around most of our job is to get to the truth and empower people through knowledge on this week. so fries a new method of cremation is helping him to tradition become more environmentally friendly. and we visit a danish community into a taken sustainability to new heights just over there on the horizon is some so island where they are officially 100 percent renewable. we get that and so this is it, that's the energy rate of change on al jazeera with

with ah, ah, ah, weaver's drying out grazing land is shrinking in some roots long used by wildlife or migration. have been blocked by human settlements to deal with all this, kenya needs more money for conservation. and with the koran of ours, pandemic keeping many visitors awake revenue from towards him. isn't enough here at the adversary national park. and you all ceremony has been launched the hall

pressure than individuals pay $5000.00 to name an elephant. the aim this year is to raise $1000000.00, much of it for conservation initiatives. ah, this is al jazeera ah hello. hello robin. you watching the out there and usa live from our headquarters here in doha coming up in the next 60 minutes. this has been the most devastating tornado of that in our state's history. catastrophic.