of the sun in the mosquitoes, the earth as well. so these magnetic fields are kind of particle accelerators that increase they the speed of what only particles on also makes it shifting that, that grown up. we still don't know. i'm the space probably barker. space pro is going to be was more ideal how these happens. ah, hello again. the headlines on al jazeera, the chinese and russian leaders have held a virtual summit. she jim pings meeting with vladimir putin, comes at a time of rising tension between both nations and the west. just luca de la city, the close coordination of russia and china is actions on the world stage. and the responsible joint approach regarding resolving current world problems became a significant factor in the stability of our relationship. germany is now, chancellor of souls was urged every one to get vaccinated if the country is to win the fight against corona virus is warned,

his administration will have no red lines. and tackling the pandemic saying they have no time to waste. hong kong police have confirmed more than a 1200 people have been rescued after a fire broke out at the cities world trade center for it clinic as a journalist and hong kong and has more from the scene. hi, bryce house on the 1st floor of the room. i bet from a sample being fired, but it's not clear exactly how that was ignited in the 1st place in the mail room. what we didn't know is that there are reservations on the way you might be able to see some of those renovation take place, but would be there by i think that there will be a large scale investigation into what happened to the workers at a us candle. factory where 8 people were killed in a tornado say they were told they'd be fired if they left. management denies the us house of representatives voted hold former white house, chief of staff,

mark meadows and contempt of congress meadows refuse to attend to hearing into the january 6 capitol hill right last week. despite being subpoenaed, the u. s. secretary state anthony blank and says his country remains committed to a multi 1000000000 dollar fighter jet deal with the u. s. e. despite reports with w once out, the wall street journal reported the united arab emirates wants to cancel the purchase of f $35.00. don drones, because of security requirements from says reducing its military presence in northern molly. as the government accuses it of abandonment. french flag was lowered at a ceremony in timber to the loss of 3 french bases. in this region. the troops were deployed in 2013 to help stop attacks by fighters linked to our tide, and i saw those are the headlines on al jazeera coming up next is inside story. thanks for watching. bye bye. for now. news.

news. news. news. news. can you have a defense strategy, which has been more calls for the need for your life of military power, but can the european survive without in april and the united states? this is inside story. ah, ah, ah hello, welcome to the program i'm has, i'm seeking. the idea of a common defense has long been debated among european leaders. the block has historically relied on the nato alliance and the united states for military action . but after the taliban took over afghanistan this year and the mass evacuations,

the followed questions arose about the european union's ability to drive its own defense policy. on monday, on gary and prime minister was the latest leader to call for a common defense force in europe. he was holding talk with the french president during the summit of east european leaders. mean, look at us that you call has got 1st we both love countries. second, we both work for strengthening europe. and finally, we will, i think, agree on the fact that europe needs strategic autonomy. there are 3 notions we see fitting under strategic autonomy. i will share this with the president. we believe there is no autonomy without a european defense industry. we believe there is no autonomy without our own nuclear energy capabilities and there is no autonomy without self sufficiency in agriculture. e u commission president ursula vaughan delay and had also highlighted the need for the block to step up its military capabilities in order to be able to confront security threats and global crisis or european union is

a unique security provider. there will be missions where nato, all the united nations will not be present. but where you are should be. you can have the most advanced forces in the world. but if you never prepared to use them of what use are they? what has helped us back until now is not just a shortfall of capacity. it is the lack of political will. and let's take a closer look at how much you government spend on defense. a recent european defense agency report showed the block spent a record 225000000000 dollars last year, a 5 percent increase on 2019. but there was a full in joint investment. the continent spent just 11 percent of that total equipment purchases in cooperation with other u government. despite the lack of cooperation, the block still plans

a joint military force of up to 5000 troops by 2025 to deploy during emergencies. the less bringing our guest now talk more about this in washington d. c. we have boston benner, he is a co founder and director of the global public policy institute in berlin in brussels. theresa fallon, a director of the center for russia, europe, asia studies and joining us from oslo. glen deason, professor of international relations at the university of south eastern norway. good to have your witness. thorsten bennett, if i could stop this, by asking, does a european defense force make sense strategically? yes, sir, thanks for having me. as son, of course, it makes you teach a sense in the medium term. the question is, how to make it the reality and what realistic next. next steps are, there's

a lot of political talk about european strategic autonomy about europeans teaching sovereignty. even problem is the orbit kind of pretended he is a great advocate of this and fully aligned with president the my con, that he's all in favor of strengthen europe. whereas on the rule of law and other issues, prime is there or bon undermines. ready undermine europe, or underline said it's not just the question of capabilities or capacity, but the political well, that's true. we need the political world to, to really up our game. europe does spend quite a bit on defense, but it needs to kind of pool and share and to get out of this national parochialism of national defense industries and really work to europe toward a europe wide defense industry. strengthening at the innovation base and the really work toward that. and i think then this direction could, could become

a reality. but the important thing is not to talk just about this, the unrealistic goals for the time, for, for the time being. but to really talk about concrete steps to invest in concrete, the capabilities as, as europe, teresa found, what do you see as the motivation for your defense force? well, we see with the crohn, he will be having to eat rotating, counsel presidency. in addition to that, he's running for office in france, so he's really pushing the strategic autonomy narrative. this is something that he has been long known to to profess, he mentioned about 2 years ago that nato was brain dead. france has often been seen as a real pushing the strategic on a ton me narrative. but there are 2 ways to look at this. when could be that you're,

that is stronger, that does more burden sharing will be actually more useful to nato. so for the last 30 years, there's been kind of a night since 989. this idea that there's a kind of a peace dividend. so there, as the you mentioned early, there's been so much money spent, but has it really been used wisely and what about capacities? there's a big issues in gaps in logistics, and even basic communications among the member st. let alone inside nato. so i think that strengthening europe and having us, strengthened pillar within nato, will actually be x you to be beneficial, especially since we're not only facing russia anymore. we're facing russia, china, iran, south korea. and so i think that the europeans need to be far more active and use their funding more carefully. we've talked about battle groups or some mentioned those, and you know, they have never been used. so there's a lack of political will. and there's a sense that many times that europeans like to arbitrage tensions between the u. s

. and china, for example, to their benefit. so we need to have everyone on the same page. and i think that with the recent democracy summit that by didn't help, i think he's trying to get everyone involved. and i should note that oregon was not invited to this. and it's interesting that micron reached out to him at the reason busy grad summit held there. so let's see how things turn out glen. these in are we mentioned in the sat there about the how the, the rapid lapse of the, the government in, in cobble and to take over that the taliban in august raised questions about the european union's ability to drive its own defense policy. do you think that the only thing that that's driving this though, i know i think it will. i think there's a lot of both in international changes, so less internal. so obviously a series of allan point out us went on many occasions. the u. s. is in the relative decline,

those becoming less reliable so. so that's something that medical also echoed saying that, you know, europe has to be able to care. it's take care of itself. the motor lied too much on the u. s. however, the focus they've been in the areas they want to develop those suggest in terms of defense, nuclear and energy agriculture, it suggests that, well, the defense is obviously an initiative to become less reliance on nato, which means to have more independence from united states. the focus on the nuclear energy is obviously to have arrested, less reliance on russia and, and, and if it fits within what you have to find a strategic economy, which is that you should have more influenced by the less dependent on others. now i would also add that this also has an implication for the internal dynamics of that you, because it's obvious that this is a french proposal, but it's that the ease lead with germany and france at the center. although frances, obviously the weaker part s germany economic center. however, in the you that base it's strategic economy and more on common defense and nuclear

energy obviously shifts the power more towards france, putting it more in the center of the u, as opposed to only germany. so i think it has, this isn't the initiative you have to re position that use place in the world, but also reorganized at the power structures within the you itself, the post. and then if i come back to you on this, we heard the lavonne delay and the commission president saying that there needs to be more of a political will to do this. and i know you touched on this in your earlier answer . but where, where does that political will come from? does it come from france and germany, or does it come from elsewhere in the european union? what, what form does that political will take? i think it needs took the large members they need to lead by example. we talked about a copy in a more unified, strong as a stronger european. the defense industry,

if the smaller countries get the impression that this only means that their companies will be swallowed by german or french companies. that's not a very sustainable model. so the, the german and germany and france need to be by example make offers to also smaller, smaller countries. also, in terms of golding building capabilities in terms that are complimentary, not every country needs needs to have every type of capability of the larger countries need to. first of all, invest credibly invest in their own military capabilities and then make offers to this to the smaller countries on, on the word to cooperate the. and so i think the real burden is on, on the larger, more, more economically and politically stronger member states to really need by

example. and saw that smaller countries don't have the impression that for example, president macross talk about your european sovereignty is mostly about about friend france and less so about europe. teresa found, we had the hungarian president, victor alba, and talk about what he, what he said was strategic autonomy. when he was referring to this european defense force. what exactly does that mean and do europe and the united states have different definitions of that? it had exactly, there are different definitions. i tend to the conference ones here in brussels. people are flown in from all over europe to attend to special thing, conference and strategic autonomy. and after one full day, we are waiting for better. you got more green need to show. she was late, so i turned to my left and i asked the german next me, do you know? so do you know, a strategic autonomy mean zone? they said, nope, and i turned to the right and i asked the french person sitting next to me and he

said no. so the idea of strategic autonomy is very ambiguous. i would say the friends have a view of it as we've been discussing, but i would say other member states, especially those in the baltics, are very concerned about the strategic autonomy narrative. almost how people coming to blows at this conference about strategic autonomy. because those who are closest to raso feel actually the most worrisome about these threats and fear that maybe france would not really come to, to there to help them in case there was any sort of invasion. so i think that it's not lost on the european audience that my crone who is going to be as of january 1st, having the council rotating presidency. he's trying to get the message across to the central eastern europeans. they had a busy grant event. take place there that he's there, man, and because there is a great deal skepticism from those members. so with the, you have 27, you members states. some of them are neutral,

but those in central eastern europe are very dubious about friends having this type of separate identity outside of nato. they're very pro nato. so i think that he was trying to build a bridge towards them. and i think that this is a huge problem because you have different french leaders and natives been around for 70 years. so i think that there are habits of corporation. yes, it needs to be fine tuned. it needs to be improved, but there's a huge other areas that it would be difficult for the europeans to replace. for example, cyber as well as space. all of these issues, i mean, nato has these capacity. so i think of a more useful europe would be better overall. but we also see, you know, it's not like china's far away. as many europeans tend to think. we're seeing china penetrating, you're far more through daily cyber attacks. also through the arctic we have rasa obviously rattling tapers outside of the ukranian border. so i think that europe

has a lot to think about. plus, in addition to that, we have issues, intentions and bosnia herzegovina and the whole balkans is in a difficult situation. so i think you're really has to get very serious about this . and of course, to pick up on a previous point. microns going to push the nato of a nuclear aspect. because this is also a problem in the franco german engine. because the green party, which is now part of the coalition government, is not so keen on nuclear and they will not, it is unlikely that they are going to see and as a sustainable resource, which a problem wants to have it identify that. so for this green strategy of the you, it's unclear at this moment if nuclear will be considered a, a green type of fuel. so i think that there are problems already. the new coalition government in germany is only been empower week, but we see already cracks in the relationship between france and germany. when these and what would a european defense force look like to you?

well, it would probably be somewhat weak in order to said that the french are a leader with no one who wants to follow them. and i think that's a quite a good description as all and also agree about that. a lot of the eastern european countries would be hesitant to pursue this, a strategic economist, simply because it means a getting more independence from the united states, which means that we can nato, and a lot of them have put that in most. it will hedge their well been back most of the security on their nato membership. but again, it's, this is part of the problem in europe. it's becoming a very, very divided in terms of interest. so i think, yeah, for many didn't view that nato is part of the problem. i mean, a, every single plan, european security and our security agreement, we had from the helsinki courts to $95.00 to the charter. piracy 1992,

the establishment of the oil see how this concept of indivisible security at its center. now, nato expansionism has effectively violated the oldest principles of individuals with security, which has been the foundation of pan security. and as a result, we're having now the collapse of, of a pioneer p and security architecture, which is why we're having this conflicts with russia. now, the, the benefit of having more of a you army would be, it is less threatening to russia, given that nato is deemed to be the main threat to russia and with a reduced role for nato. it could, it could alleviate or reduce some of the tensions in europe. but that being said, that the army on its own would be somewhat, it wouldn't be very effective given the it's do not a states role carrying most of the older brunt, or it's the main. i'm a member of nato. so i'm, it would be a very different european secured architecture, so my opinion, it would be yes,

less need formula given that the relations with russia would be much better, but obviously it would also be a much weaker and less efficient military. well, let's talk a little bit more about this relationship with, with, with nato. thorsten benner is there a risk that european defense force might undermine nato? what sort of role would it play? that's different to, to that organization. because of course, there are a lot of countries, there is a lot of overlap. there is an in terms of member countries that are already part of nato. we've got what exactly exactly it. there is no contradiction between the stronger european capabilities and a strong nato. as long as the u. s. want, wants that i think it's very easy to imagine you're building up more capabilities and making them useful within, within nato,

by carrying more of its own way. in terms of deterring russian aggression and not just relying on on the u. s. for this. so as long as nato is viable and as long as the u. s. is able and willing to underwrite the european security more capabilities will also make on the european part will make nato stronger. so that's not at all. busy the contradiction and at the same time as a hedge against the possible future in which the us no longer the underwrite european security. and to a very clear future in which the u. s. is much more, much more focused on the in the pacific theater. so that europe needs to take care of relations in its neighborhood, especially also with russia by itself. when glen has a very funny reading of history and the relations with russia, where europe and the u. s. are the only culprits were a shiny,

happy future with the kremlin would be in the, in the cards. if we only disarm to and dissolve the nato, i think history tells, tells a very different different story. of course we need to take the crime than on threat perceptions so seriously. but this very funny, strange and peculiar reading of history that, that you offered glen doesn't pass muster or let's get glens response to that. yes, no, i didn't say that nato has to be disbanded. i think that nato was quite effective when it did very little that he said throughout the cold war, it was effectively a power of promoting the status quo that is, plus a defensive alliance. seeking to deter the soviet union after the cold war, nato has become prohibitionist power. that is, it's now expanding its invading other countries without un mandates. so under this,

the under this new nato, the revision is natal. i think it's very much the same blessing and it's the main source of pensions and conflict in europe. and this divisions in europe, dividing lines is also making europe as a continent less and less relevant. now, if nato would go back to its original mission to be a status coal power and it's military interventionism and this expansion is mixed with again, the source of stability in europe. however, this is kind of what they're trying to negotiate now between moscow in washington. but that's very different from saying that natal dismantles, theresa nano is if they don't like, why just if nato were the, the only problem. why did president put in choose to invade the crimea after ukraine signed the corporation deal with the european union? was not natal? that was the problem. in that case, there was a deal with the european union's well,

it's too large extent because of the hello tactics. if it can see what's coming down the road, i mean the natal started with expanding to a couple of countries now it just keeps expanding. and obviously the u. s. s. s. s state that it's intention of dragging your grant into nato even when only a small minority wanted to be part of nato. and furthermore, they didn't simply sign an agreement with you. they were there was a coup, backed by both the united states and the you. and because of this, the russians reacted us. a status call would be by, by claimed, by holding onto its naval base in crimea. so again, if nato had not the west from a back, a coup in ukraine, and they hadn't threatened to expand into ukraine, russia would never have taken back to criminal. right. so i want to give what's probably going to be last. what on this to teresa allen? go ahead. well, i think it's always important to try to understand how the russians see the world.

it's very different from most other people. i think that status quo, i mean seizing crimea, and over 14000 people have died in the dunbar. so the idea that nato is changing the status quo. i think the evidence is there on the ground. and as we see moscow rattling sabres outside of ukraine, it's extremely worrisome and they're using that as a way to try to change the agreement. we've seen with the agreement was signed. it's codified that nato could expand. so it's a real reading of history. it's a change of tone, and i think that the countries that have joined the un nato, for example, the baltics are very glad that they have because they're watching what russia is doing, nibbling away ukraine, threatening it. what happened in georgia, possibly what might happen in moldova. i think that these are all worrying signs for these countries, and that's why they are want to see nato. of course, i think damage by being praised when put inside he supports or law said that he

really supports like the you having this type of military. it kind of shows that they want to get rid of nato, and they realize that the would be very weak and disorganized, and it would be very variable depending on who's in office and who would be willing to invest. and it would take a very long time. i mean, there's been, although there's been a lot of money spent, there's really a lack of capacity. so i think that that would be put in your dream to have you do this. so i think that clever minds even micron has not to down a bit in his speech last week, and i think there are more realistic they do understand that it's not just burden sharing. it's burden shedding. the u. s. wants to be more active. thank you so much . ok, thank you on that. so we will have to leave it. we are unfortunately out of time. thank you to all 3 of you for taking part austin benner, theresa fallon and glen these and thanks very much for being on. and so i story and thank you, as always watching, remember, you can see this program again any time just go to our website edges in

a dot com. and for further discussion, you can go to our facebook page, facebook dot com, forward slash ha, inside store. you can also join the conversation on twitter handle. there is at a j inside store for me. hm. see, get and hope in here. bye for now. ah ah. a for did remy? this is lena families. the pain is unbearable for their relatives were killed last week. during a military operation ordered by the venezuelan government,

security forces accused him of being part of a colombian rebel group and said they died in combat. but neighbors and family members and they were innocent, taken from their homes and executed under pressure venezuela's defense minister by the made by the reno, said the forces were obliged to the friends that country from irregular groups, but added that human rights needed to be respected. and that the events at the border would be investigated. i've come back to san diego to revisit the fascinating pa, to possibly in history. they were crazy, creative, even visionary. they were top lester, not to be a list of them as a child during and just talk to people still love them. it was basically too bad to be true. what they were predicting can comment to heal ethnic divisions and national tensions exist in both yesterday. once upon a time in san diego, on algebra,

a get a ah, it's brenda. with compelling journalism, we keeping our distance because it's actually quite dangerous. ambulances continue to arrive at the scene of the explosion inspire program making. i still don't feel like i actually know enough about what living under fascism was light. how much money did you make for your role in deliverance? i made that al jazeera english proud recipient of the new york festivals

broadcaster of the year award for the 5th year running. ah hello, i'm emily anglin, in tow. how these? the top stories on al jazeera, the presidents of china and russia have held a virtual summit. they agreed their relations have raged unprecedented positive levels. vladimir persian and she gin pings meeting comes the time of rising tension between both nations and the west. jessica de la la, close coordination of russia and chide his actions on the world stage. and the responsible joint approach regarding resolving current world problems became a significant factor in the stability of our relationship.