interventions in preserving the environment, re using environmental materials. we found they played an exceptional role in creating a role model for young people, volunteers, and community activists to make sustainable interventions in community and environmental service. her. since this project was founded, it has become an example for others to do the same. but these young people say it's only the beginning of a bigger dream and they hope to show the world how beautiful garza can be. in c, l g 0. got them. ah, hello. yeah, and i'm fully battle with the headlines on al jazeera france is banning most non essential travel from the u. k, which has reported a record number of coffee 19 infections for a 2nd day on the african continent. the delta and army con variance have driven up

infections by nearly 83 percent. the un secretary general says flawed vaccine policies have contributed to the threat posed by the new variance strategy vaccine horribly, the circle g, a vaccine nationalism, or the strategy of action. no diplomacy phase, these new variance is demonstrated is failure. and so my hope is that companies understand that from not one, we need to have an equitable way to address the pandemic. or we will all be victims of its rescue operations or underway after super typhoon ry. made landfall on the eastern side of the philippines. tens of thousands of people are being moved to emergency shelters in the southern end, central part of the country. officials say about $10000.00 villages are in the projected half of the typhoon. the remaining 12 american and canadian missionaries

kidnapped by a gang in haiti of been released 5 others were freed in the last 2 weeks, the group was abducted in october after visiting an open h near the capital portal prints. in chile, official campaigning is ending ahead of sundays. presidential run off election. alright, candidates. jose antonio can finish on top. in the 1st round, he's overtaken his left wing opponent. gabrielle bore h, but only bias came marching. in australia, 5 children have been killed after a gust of wind swept up a bouncy castle. they were jumping on. police say for more are in a critical condition. after falling to the ground for about 10 meters in the air. and facebook has been 7 companies which had phase where operating as surveillance for hire. it's sending warning notices to 40000 people or the social network believes were targeted by malicious activity. facebook says politicians, journalists and human rights activists were affected. your upstate with the headlines on al jazeera, i'll be back with more news right after inside story to stay with this.

ah ah, tensions with the west push of russia and china closer together. their leaders hail, what they call a muddle of cooperation of the 21st century with the u. s. and its allies is suspicious. so is this the start of a new cold war for global leadership? this isn't side story. ah, hello here, the program on him, ron con,

the u. s. europe and their allies in the west often portray russia and china is threats to global peace. they cite examples including russia's troop build up along the border with ukraine. and chinese crackdown on human rights in hong kong and sion yang. but moscow and beijing see things differently. they accused the west of destabilizing their countries by imposing sanctions and interfering in their domestic affairs residence. i seizing ping and bloody my putin reinforced that point in a virtual summit on wednesday. they pledge to corporate on trade and security and to respect each other's interests. katrina, you set up our discussion from beijing. it is, it is a virtual summit and show of solidarity the presidents of china and russia. she didn't ping and vladimir putin spoke for more than an hour on wednesday, hailing their close ties. voltaire, the roll has undergone unprecedented changes and a pandemic in the last entry saw no rotten relations. how we do the terse,

a verse storms as low as the deep historical traditions of friendship and a mutual understanding have allowed us to take our relations to the next breakthrough level. trade between china and russia exceeded 115000000000 dollars this year. a new high, the leaders pledge to increase corporation on energy paging already relies on moscow from much of its minerals, oil, and natural gas plants underway for nuclear power stations. they're also coordinating on efforts to further space exploration and scientific innovation. chinese analysts say the relationship is now stronger than it's ever been, they'll milan was ads or that the 2 countries support each other in their core interests. for example, when it comes to china's core interests, those are territorial, integrity and sovereignty development and security. the meeting comes as both nations face mounting criticism for their policies at home and abroad. russia for a mass build up of troops on its border with ukraine,

and china for increasing military activity near taiwan. a self, rhode island dating claims as its own common interests as well as color grievances have brought china and russia closer together. both face rising tensions with the u . s. and its allies, as well as accusations of human rights abuses and birth hadn't to v support each other on the international stage. officials in washington have under schooled a growing military threat from birth, russia, and china putin. and she, you say they'll work more closely when it comes to security. they have conducted several joint exercises this year. moscow provides bating advanced weaponry, including fighter jets and missile defense systems. the u. s. is now completely focused on great power competition after they left afghanistan. so there is a short window of opportunity i think that both moscow amazing see before the u. s . military kind of gears up for this great power competition. and they are trying to explain that the leaders are known to share

a good personal bond. several countries have declared diplomatic boycotts of dating 2022 winter olympics. but vladimir putin has confirmed his attendance. the only major leader to do so, so far. katrina, you are da 0 dating ah, let's bring our guest at joining us from oslo. glenn decent professor of international relations at the university of se, norway and an editor at russia in global affairs from new york. david l. phillips, director of the program on peace building and rights at columbia university. and from london, steve sang director of the china institute at so us university of london, a warm welcome to you all. let's begin with steve sang in london. steve, this isn't quite a declaration of a new cold war, but it is an unprecedented declaration of a cooperative agreement between russia and china. what's that based on?

well, it is based on a lot of come and interest attached it to countries share. at the moment, the share tension with the united states, and they want to make sure that they will prevailed and not the united states. they share a common objective of making the world safe for authors, terrorism, so dead, the well will be safe for putin and for she in pain. they also shared the issue of you, in the case of russia ambitions over you cranes opinion the case of china ambitions over taiwan. so there's a lot for them to work together. and we should also not forget that she jumping age, reviving marxism leninism as the, the e, the older g in china, which makes him much more better disposed to format. so with countries that are

weak turnings, to author a terrorism. russia is one of them in low, sorry, glen. what is the right, what were the russians getting out of this all the getting out there? well, what this is an anti hedge, monique partner. so someone to help them develop some alternatives so. so, so the partnership kind of expands in many areas they seek to integrate their economy is going to coordinate to political positions. and, and i also have a son degree on a military corporation. now obviously, the main thing russia would guess from this is what they never had before because they were never, well invited into the west or be part of europe after the cold war. so now they effectively found an alternative, instead of knocking on the door for europe, for another 30 years. so, so this is the, the main, the main thing to need, but then it has 2 components. one of it, and it's, it's a genuine interest. so they both have an interest incorporating, but also

a huge component of this is also, of course to try to nakeila themselves from u. s. pressure both military and economic. so, so it's already been seen since the global financial crisis. both china and russia believe that the current position of us is untenable, so you need them alternative as, as the years trade balance keeps going down, it's a bit spirals out of control. it's inflation now also seems to be quite enduring. so i think for this reason they've been seeking an alternative. now the fact that the u. s. also uses it's economics instrument, our us, a weapon against russia. china only intensifies this need to corporate further and again, insulate themselves from the american economic course. david phillips and develops rather in new york, you heard what both i guess how to say this is a great deal for both of those countries. now, separately, the u. s. was able to exert. certainly some influence over russia. china,

perhaps less so. but here we are now 2 countries getting together to very big countries getting together what's, what's the united states position? hey, can i do anything? let color when it is an axis of tyranny. these are 2 countries that ignore the rules based international order that evolves during the 20th century. they grass against sovereign states. in this case, russia is threatening ukraine, and china is threatening. i wanted other countries in the south and east china. david, if you're talking about a threatening serenity of different countries, i mean the war in iraq was a legal that was by who it was the americans. so let's be very, you will have a good day. i thought we're going to be talking about real well, but i don't quite, you know, i will. but why would it be? one of the said, like, just to talk to you about what the american position is in the united states

invaded occupied iraq illegally. the detriment of the iraqi people have no argument with that. we're talking about today is aggression by russia in china. not only against sovereign states, but also domestic, ethnic, cleansing of muslims, weaker and sin john rushers, denial or freedom of expression. it's assassination of political opponents. so the current challenge to the world order isn't in iraq, it's with china and russia, ignoring the international rules based order and aggressive against neighbors and their own citizens. therein lies the great challenge of our attention. so if you use the word authoritative, authoritarian regimes, david phillips has used the word tyrannical or tyranny regimes. what is it? what is this coming together?

well, i think if we are looking at china, it is not my wish to return to some to day. it is a new form of very, very strong and effective authoritarianism that uses hbo technologies to give it near to terry and control. but not the old fashioned to does it caring control. it has systematic abuse of human rights. so it is a very problematic government in that sense, but i don't think we should be confused by using any terms that would describe china as if it were like the maoist era or as i said we were in the southern is iraq, isn't glen, you were shaking it had furiously there it was. david phillips was saying, what's your disagreement? well, not furiously, but i think it's misrepresentation. first. first on the china side, one is not

a foreign country. the whole. the whole format which china us that's agreed on for more than 40 years. and i was the one china policy. and it's the us was now acting at the remission is power seeking to chip away at the one china policy by pushing taiwan towards secession. and this is what, this is what the chinese are reacting on saying that they will intervene if they go down the path. and the same is true in here in europe, nato that has been expanding towards the ukraine. and russia has had to do only intervene if the proxy regime in the us, which it can only do with support from the united states. so i think it's the present is some sort of partnership about it's about the value of some kind of a commitment to authoritarianism. i think that's a very unfair representation. however, i would agree that the book of propose

a guess from new york or sort of the rules based international order. because at both china and russia and says that the international law has to come 1st in accordance with with you and charter. now the rules based international order is a bit of an william concept. it doesn't actually include any rules. it's just, you know, the u. s. can insert interfering domestic affairs. it can government, they can invade us long and legitimize under democracy promotion and human rights. so being that this us has to stick to international law. so on this course, i do agree, david phillips, is there an opportunity here for the west, for america to re tool its way of thinking about russia and china? is there an opportunity we live in a multi polar world? we have to recognize that power is diffuse. russia and china do have legitimate national interest. but those interests are feeling served through aggression and

through domestic human rights use. when we speak about international law, we also think about the universal declaration of human rights. we think about international humanitarian law. the great struggle that we face today is between the rights of states and the rights of people in those states to realize their full potential. clearly china and russia or champions of sovereignty, and they put state's rights ahead of the rights of individuals. is that really the multi polar world that we want to live in? is that a formula for development, peace and security. those kinds of abuses will ultimately backfire and d, stabilize russia in china. and the u. s. should support victims by expressing solidarity and developing policies that push back against hearing. but david, when you're talking about pushing back, you sound a little bit like can, can you, you know, wanting to push back the tide. we'll talking russia and china here. we're talking

to the very big countries whom the u. s. has had to tense relationship with simply because it con as easily influencing as say for example, can your opinion the u. k. so when you say pushed back, what are the tools to push back with? there are many true disposal of the us in the international community, including sanctions against individuals, trade restriction, we have the global magnetic which imposes economic and travel sanctions on corruption and human rights abusers. so there are international rules that allow opposition to tyranny. the us needs to play by those rules. it shouldn't rollover and allow charity to prevail. it's shared push back and make sure that sherony does not win the day. that rights and freedoms do prevail. stay saying in london, whenever there's been sanctions put in place against china, whenever the,

the international tools that david l phillips is talking about being put in place against china, often china has just turned around and said, we are too big. this is not going to affect us that now even bigger with this corporate agreement with russia. well, they use that power responsibility. will they now have a law sympathetic to the international community? well, china will push that and chime that will push for his own way. i think when the chinese told me about an international rules and orders, they would like it to be the chinese rules and chinese order. and they basically saw that's what the americans told me about the international will base order. us americans, order and american will so days with quite by to replace it by their own versions of it. so the more powerful they are, the more they were to. so i think if i may, i mean what the united states really need to be thinking about. it's not just

pushback in that old fashioned cold war way. we are in a new world. we are dealing with a different kind of competition between china and russia on the one side and the u . s. and other democracies on the other side is a beauty contest, democracy. we will have to prove to the rest of the world that democracies, ah, still more beautiful than what the chinese and the russians more those are able to present to the rest of the world in terms of their effective governance. and in terms of their capacity to deal with the pandemic, which the chinese and the russians will say that the democracies and the americans are not really doing very well with at the moment. glen, this is the same question to you every time the u. s. of the west is used sanctions and other international tools against russia. russia has simply hardened its position. now, is it going to be softer because it knows it has much more power under this new

agreement, or is it gonna get harder? rather, the way it sees it can go into an issue of ukraine this, you know, it's essential if american weapons and they are all into ukraine and others consider on acceptable. so they won't, they're not going to invent any pressure on this area. however, it has to be said that the 1st rule of economic sanctions, if it's enduring too harsh to the one you sanction will simply learn to live without you. and i think that's what you see now with russia, china as well. so that was what this is some, it was about between that and putting a sheet that is this seeking a new economic architecture for the world and that would have 3 pillars. the 1st is the industry in which the seeking corporation now continued cooperation, high tech industries, us to go into the 4th industrial revolution in order not to be reliant on american digital platforms. and also for the russians not to be dependent on exporting energy to the europeans, which are becoming less reliable. the 2nd this,

the 2nd pillar, will be a transportation course. again, the, the chinese of course, trillions of dollars into this belt enrolled initiative to reorganize this course and rush is also more modest, but also developing this arc, the core door in partnership with china and as well as other initiatives. the last will be this financial architecture, which focused a great extent on which means that russia, china should now stop using the u. s. dollar. they should stop using us control development banks, not using the swiss payment system. so begin to slowly the couple away from this, and i just have that they've been quite successful to some extent for couple of 2015, 90 percent of all trade between the chinese and russians are in dollars by 2020. you're supposed to reduce in half, so down to 46 percent. so i think it is more pressure, more sanctions. newest pushes on the russians and the chinese, the more they will simply continue this partnership. because this is an initiative to learn live without the us,

since it seems as being so unreliable. then they'll phillips i in, during my research for today's show i was actually speaking to a bunch of people who are in, i mean, this is just me speaking to people is by no means like scientific but a bunch people in foreign affairs and the term cold wool kept coming up. this is just a new cold war. is that helpful framing for the us? or do we need to say as las steve sang said, actually it's a new world order feller, wagon mention economic reliance on slaves, labor and the u. s. by products, norway, u. s. corporation by products where slave labor is practiced in production. and this isn't just about the us versus russian china. it's about the west and the european union. and countries believe in human rights and democracy, opposing a tyrannical regimes of russia and china. so the u. s. has joined with you and other countries to push back multilaterally on the kinds of practices that we see

in russia and china. it's a scary world where tyranny and slave labor become routine. it's important that the west suppose that we can do that diplomatically. we can do that through dialogue and essentially building with russia and china, if they will. but if they don't, and they persist in their ways, then there's clearly going to be a cost to pay for them. the us and the west of the and what does that cost? he's saying is china worried about the cost? no, i don't think china is really to worry about what the americans are pushing at the moment. jiving in china. it has a lisa who is incredibly confident in so any, in the direction of travel which that china is going when can question that and they are good grounds to question whether the direction of troubleshoot jim picks.

china is the white one is the want, but he is very competent. there he is, right? so he is not so worry about the american push back. he is a voting resources redirecting or the capacities of the chinese parties stay an economy to come to what the americans are doing. so i think the americans really need to be much more imaginative if they are going to win this competition, it is not just a direct confrontation between china and the united states. it is about winning the hearts and minds of the rest of the world for marriage when it has to show that it is genuine, me better. now glenn, we are to spend to see it, but by the rest of the world, david, i'll bring you in in just a 2nd, but i want to put his point to glen. i mean, you were talking about decoupling of the us dollar, but that's been replaced mainly by the euro and some other currencies that still the west. so russia still have a debt, as russia still has

a debt mechanism with the west, that is going to be a problem note. well, it's a gradual process, but the dollar has always been the key priority. but, but now you're a great when the date when they're reduced their lives and the dollar, it also entailed in creating the use of the euro, and also more and more the use of domestic currencies. and obviously that's also the china and russia would like to go to increased use of domestic current, and therefore not just simply replace the us dollar with the euro. but again, it is a process. i'm not saying it has come a long way over the past 56 years, and i don't like the idea that this is only about the values. i think. i think the strongest representation against russia. excellent relations with the south korea, japan, india, israel. the made, the common denominator is nato, its military block expanding upon its borders and already we are,

we are sorry guys, you know, running i was having to do when i come to david phillips. well, i've heard from all 3 of you is very entrenched positions when it comes to describing the west, china and russia to describe nat, position those saying that your positions, they seem very bullish. do you think? and last, the question again, do you think this kind of david, this kind of bullish enough is the right way forward with the county road initiative, subordinates, countries burden them with death, ignoring labor and environmental standards. that's not going to win hearts in mind . and when it comes to nato, it's much more than a security alliance. it's coalition of countries with shared values is i'm looking for the stupid russia, according to the north atlantic charter member to subscribe to minimal standards, human rights and democracy. that's why turkey and hungary are in trouble with just very, very conflicts he already out. how do you need to come to the other guess, steve, do you think this belief stuff is helpful?

i think bullish ness on all sides. it gets us into more of the concentration of it saying, i think we need to move beyond desk to find ways forward that would be more beneficial for the whole world. not just picking it up. and when showing position a glen very quickly, do you think this bullish, this is helpful? no, i think everyone needs to take gas a step back and find some ways some your cooperative arrangements now did that. thank you. this is afterwards the economic or actual war. so now i want to thank all our guests, sag glendale and david phillips and steve sang and i want to thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website out. is there a dot com for further discussion? go to a facebook page, that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. and you can also join the conversation on twitter. we are at a j inside story. for me, i'm wrong hon and the whole team head my for now.

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