so largely in place and sound like russia and ukraine, i do when partial reforms in russia in particular, it was a cute economic depression and organized crime and a breakdown of law and order in the 1st decade after the w clamp. and now we've seen at table as ation, we from the streets, but also a resistance to diversification or resistance or a form that yearly resemblance of late 19 seventies and early 980 s. and he is christmas blessing. the head of the roman catholic church is urged people to talk more to each other. speaking from in pain square in the vatican, pope frances said only dialogue can self conflicts, whether within families or between nations. he drew attention to violence in syria, yemen, ukraine, and elsewhere. ah, hello you what you know, which is era and these are the stories where the following this, our t gas has been fired on protest is in the capital cartoon in sudan, thousands

a back on the streets to rally against the military takeover. at least one person has been injured. internet services have been cut. mohammed vow has moved from the capital. the competition between police units and for testers are continuing across capital and particularly in under man and battery because that's where the huge numbers off with us as i'm trying to cross the bridge, is the word central cup to him. but the biggest confrontations ever to happen today happened in central cotton. we sell, particularly to the southern part of it, thus well, thousands gospel since the morning, the hours of the morning. more than 4000 flights have been cancelled worldwide turn christmas, travis plans into chaos. the highly transmissible army chrome barrier to the corona virus has effected flight cruise of major airlines. at least 13 people have drowned after

a boat carrying migrants cap sized off grace and the agency insisted such disaster in great waters. and as many days bringing the combine to death told to 27 in his christmas blessing, the head of the roman catholic church is urged people to talk more to each other. speaking from some pay to swear in the vatican, francis said earning dialogue, crystal conflicts, whether within families or between nations. he drew attention to violence and syria, him and ukraine and elsewhere. and the largest and most powerful space telescope ever built has been launched from south america. caught any date, it was signed his hope. the james web space telescope will help him and better understand stars and galaxies that are more than 13000000000 years old. when from base to telescope will be used to look back in time to live from the early universe to examine the creation of stuff and galaxy. those, the headlines i'm and language news continues here on elisha 0 after upfront merry

christmas frank assessments this crisis continue to weaken a luca sion, even though there can you believe them the beginning that but i informed opinions like think politicians will now be under incredible pressure from the young people, that is one of the most types of things come out of this critical debate. do you think a should be facilitated? not sure. okay, it's a great. it's a really simple question. let's give tommy on chop one inside story now jazeera with an increase in hate times incendiary rhetoric and the media and public discourse around protections for transgender people becoming more hostile will examine what's behind. rising transfer will be in the united kingdom and what the future holds for the struggle for trans right. when 1st, the domestic violence, salary death, and france aside and honor killing to rape and murder. women in india are subjected

to some of the most dangerous conditions in the world. the latest available data says india reported an average 77 rape cases daily in 2020. so what's causing this epidemic of violence? is enough being done to ended? well as swati, molly, well, the chair, person of the deli commission for what? the what the molly? well, thank you so much for joining us on upfront. can you explain some of the main forms of fem aside and how they affect everyday women? i would like to just explain to you what all is actually happening. i hit the daily commission for them and it is the statute to the board in india. and every d in delhi itself fix reaper huffman 8 month old baby was recently deep them the capital. and i had gone and visited the goods the way she was bleeding. she was in an intensive care unit, the entire hospital, the entire north. everybody, the doctor. i mean we, every,

every one has been so much effort in order to just save that child. an 8 month old baby was raped a 90 year old woman and raped. so the kind of rapes and the kind of sexual crimes that are happening in our country. are you need your li, horrific everything from domestic violence to being discriminated in your workplace, to sexual harassment in the workplace to say was talking to you know, the child being killed in the womb, which since all of these kind of crimes are happening on a very very large scale in the country and i think even rolled over after the kind of domestic violence, incidences that have increased everywhere across the world. it is quite sad. i'm even in india, the number of cases have gone up like it's been quite back. indeed, it's somebody the latest available data says in india 29.5 percent of women have experienced physical violence since the age of 15 and in 2018 india was named the

most dangerous country in the world to be a woman due to the high risk of sexual violence and slave labor. what's the root of this? i think a lot of self patriarchy and massage in the lake, in any other country. all kind of sexual violence is that man actually feels very, very powerful. seems that he can get away with anything. and in the india, especially the justice systems are full back that people actually have more feel they feel that they can get away with all kinds of avoidance and crimes. and that is, i think, got the major cause of all these issues. another thing is that opportunity. sions, i think there's a complete lack of in all, most politicians actually, many of them, they get away with bitty bitty, shameful statements. recently we had the government's chief minister who said that that really happened because good, very short codes. similarly,

there are people who say that dog rapes happened because goods are having mobile phone, stacy, that's going to be happening because going eating hawk on those. so all kinds of statements made by these, from the political and they actually get away with it. so i think what caused like the world over if patriarchy and misfortune, me, and the failure of the system to put any kind of checks against in 2020 delhi, the national capital reported more rapes than the other union territories. in india, you're part of a p has been leading the government of delhi since 2015 and promised to ensure the safety of women. what's happened. i think of just the fact that particular state is reporting more cases doesn't mean that the crime in that particular state is more. i don't agree with that because you'll see, at least in delhi, the reporting is happening. you have states like the, the, the issue of states or the states in the country where reporting is not there,

people are not even having, having the courage to come up to the police station to the board. and even the, this is feeling to the 40 cases. so i think it does not about danny. i think it is about the entire country and the situation remains the same everywhere. right? but why these? so why the, let's assume that that's the case and there is no more dangerous than any other place. the question still remains. if the a p ran and is committed to ensuring the safety of women, has it failed to do so. and if so, why? for i'm not saying that daily is less dangerous than other places in the country. i'm seeing all places in the country including daily are equally dangerous. as far as the me party government. as far as the, the legal guns concern. you see that the ready of your state of affairs in the national capital are the law and order off the national capital doesn't come under

the on let me party. it comes into the central government. that's that. i think that all parties of the country, everybody, all political leaders, whether it is mr. me will be with mr. case while everybody has to come down together. i'm actually help this issue somehow made sure that systems are in place, but let's get to the forces that accountability is set. that some kind of message is given to criminals. that if you do any crime, you will not be spared. and within 6 months, there is going to be, you know, you will be given the punishment. so i think strong systems need to be made. and i think all governments have to come together to be able to do what role can or should the police play? do you fund mentally trust the police to properly respond to the issue of sexual violence against women? we have to trust systems. we have to just create better system for this has to be trusted. it's just that they need to be that accountability needs to be fed daily. this has been demanding for the past 13 years. 66 calvin willis, both know from the central government and it has failed to get

a me. i had to sit on a 10 day, 13 day, long hunger strike in order to get see told him who for the state of dealing. but how many have more hunger strikes to people like us have to do in order to get what is the do of the daily lives. but not just that this also the site. the fact is that if they're not accountability for just add more than sources to them, nothing will change. so i think it is important. but accountability set that resources are given. i'm systems are created. you see if you create good system, but you're just going to be delivered and i think your point about systems, an accountability, but there's also an idiot. logical piece of this. for example, in delhi, over half a police officer survey said they believed either a high or a very high amount of gender based violence. complaints were false in motivated. so even if we add more police and make them more accountable, a be fundamentally don't believe women will any of it matter? of course, the entire system right, from the politician site, from the police,

from the doctors and nurses, everybody. the entire system needs to be sensitized, but how do you think that i have a system like that? how do you send today's so many people in one goal? you do it by creating the systems. so if a woman comes and reports a case to willis station, right from the time the plus police officer meet that woman build a time, her case is actually the can, the conviction happens. the entire system needs to be made more sensitive. if you ensure that an 8 month old baby was raped, if you ensure justice to hard within 6 months to the justice system protocol live to all of the of different people who have different roles in this process. that this when there will be a message in the society that you cannot go, you cannot just get away with claims against women. let's start with just looks like you in 2019. you went on a 12 day hunger strike,

demanding the death penalty for individuals who are convicted of raping minors. but according to the death penalty information center, there hasn't been any conclusive evidence that the death penalty reduces crime. in fact, the un high commissioner for human rights has said quote, evidence shows that the certainty of punishment rather than its severity deter, is crime. how do you respond to that argument? a 5 year old girl was leapt in my country are hers. she was gang raped, her eyes were gouged out. ah, her each and every born in her body was 1st broken. she was strangled, and then they killed her. what do you explain to her patterns? what do you think justice looked like for them? oh so it's vile, my hunger strike. i fact one b one. so fact on a hunger strike, it lasted for 10 days on the 10th day of the government, boston ordinance. that all cases off. crimes against women will be disposed off

within 6 months. i'm in the midst of the rare cases and in the important cases in the cases where something really horrific has happened or the the death penalty will be given on the 10th day of my hunger strike. when this ordinance came, i broke my hunger strike again. i had to fit after a year and a half on another hunger strike for what if my question is about too far away from the question, which is if the evidence shows that the death penalty doesn't reduce crime, why do you still wanted? it sounds like you're saying, and i want to make sure i'm, i'm characterizing your words correctly, that as a pun, as almost revenge, that the death penalty is the proper response. and even if you knew that the death penalty, well, let me ask differently. even if you knew the death penalty wouldn't reduce the number of rapes that occur in the country. would you still support the death penalty in the cases that you described? all i'm trying to say is my 1st and foremost reminders that each and every keys

that justice should be delivered and it should be delivered in a particular time cream within 6 months. all of the processes they need to happen within 6 months and that that needs to be done after that. yes, i, i am talking on behalf of all the sexual assaults away with whom i meeting almost every day that pain has become my pain. and i think whatever the way the, whatever the studies might suggest, i think drastic time school for drastic measures. what needs to be done as you need to give strong punishment in each and every case. and yes, in cases which are completely horrific, which shock the conscience of the nation. certain very, very drastic steps like the bit and they should be. and that do punishment is not a form of revenge. what is important is that if the machine does, given a message, goes across to the people that they cannot get away with it. today, what is happening is that a person commits a crime, goes to the jail for a big comes out on bill. and then he's coming thing, the supreme court if we claim again and again and again. so how do you ensure that

country as large as ours, how do you ensure that there are systems that are in place to ensure that people have that kind of fewer, that they cannot get away with crane? i want to increase accountability of live. i want to increase for that. i want better 46. i want better osha the homes. i want better rehab alleviation. so both the systems and boulevard the need that one is, you know, trying to fight for and job. i very strongly believe in systems. i believe that if justice is delivered in time, a lot of change can happen and that before to fight before. so i will, i will thank you so much for joining us on upfront. the trans phobia is rising in the u. k. hate crimes are increasing every year. hostile rhetoric dominates the media coverage of trans people, and despite prime minister boris johnson's pledge to ban conversion there, the government continues to delay reforms some on both the left and the right side

of the political spectrum argue that trans rights are a threat to women's rights just how dangerous is it to be transgender in the u. k. and is transforming it in the media, making things worse? joining me to discuss this are christine burns, editor of trans britain, and nancy kelly, chief executive of stonewall. the u. k. based l g b t q plus human rights organization. thank you both for joining me on upfront christine, i'm going to start with you. before we talk about the situation in the u. k. could you briefly explain what we mean by these terms and trans people? yes, certainly mark the way we understand trends these days is as to cover any people whose sense of themselves dinner in the language which have just has binary opposite of man and woman is opposite to the way they are presumed to be on the basis of how they were assessed at birth, so i'm a trans woman because i was identified as

a boy when i was born. and when later when i grew up, i told people no, actually i'm a woman. and this people then are those whose since the self or i didn't gender identity aligns with their biological assignment. ember. that's exactly right. you've got it right. christina. the council of europe, that's europe's leading human rights organization. recently criticize the u. k. along with poland, hungary, russia, turkey for arise and hate speech violence and hate crimes against l. g b, t. i. people, a recent report by the organization found online abuse against trans people, harmful political and social discourse about trans rights, and a sharp increase in transfer crimes in the u. k. why is the u. k, so hostile to trans people? until the mysteries all of us, it wasn't widespread until extremely recently. as late as 2017, we made steady advances for the trans people in britain with legislation that

protected our employment rights. our right to be served in shops and use other services. and of course the, the gender recognition act, which i was part of bringing forwards in 2004, which provides legal recognition to trans people. and most importantly is designed to enable a trans women like me to change my originally issued birth certificate. so that if somebody asked to state that most fundamental identity document, then i'm not immediately out it. because as you can see, most of the day when i walk around in, in this world, people don't know i'm trans unless i choose to tell. but if you were going to jump in, i was so if i can just build on that, i think one of the things it's really important is to am kind of separate out the public conversation about trans people and trans rights in the u. k. so or media or politics from the attitudes of the general public's the attitudes,

the general public can u. k. are broadly very positive and young people, women hot more highly educated people are all, much more likely to, to view trans people positively and to be supportive of equal rights for trans people and anti discrimination protections for trans people em and really being transferred to can you case is a kind of minority position as some great research from the quality human rights commission that shows it's about it's about one in 6 people in the u. k. that a transfer back to what's distinctive about the u. k. i guess is, is the tone of our national conversation about trans people given the fact that actually generally speaking of public, a pretty accepting was, are such a gap between the public media discourse in the disposition of everyday people. yeah, i would blame that directly on our media a we made all these advances. we changed the law many times to make life safer. the

trans people overpaid about 15 years from the beginning of the 19 ninety's until the gender recognition act in 2004. and most people didn't even notice we were there because we don't impinge on people's lives. we. we just want to get on with having private lives and, and it wasn't until about 2017 that a conflicted campaign was launched with certain of britain's newspapers and newspapers in particular making a big issue that suddenly we went to having with some newspapers, trail for articles very negative article. yeah, i'm reading some of the headline the week. yeah, i'm reading some of the headline. yeah. in the u. k. press, they point to a so called trans lobby. a headlines have claims like lesbians facing extinction. the cancellation of women is bigger than a culture war and shoot and the children are being, quote,

sacrificed to appease the trans lobby. nancy, when we hear that kind of rhetoric, and as christine said, it's emerging in the recent time. oh, what's driving it, what's pushing it at this juncture in history? i mean, i think it's in a way this is about the way the media functions, right? this is about the degree to which a story becomes a story. and then proliferates and particularly proliferates through social media sources as well. and i think it's important to think about both the volume of content we've got in the u. k. m. and the nature of that content which christine was pointing to. so i'll press regulate her, saw that between 229-2019 you see a 400 percent increase in coverage of trans people and their lives and, and that's just kind of too much to be talking about such a small population. so we should, we should start with by a christine in the u. k. some of the most vocal voices who see including trans people in the struggle for equality as

a problem. are people who identify as feminists, they've been called trans, exclusionary radical feminists or turfs, one of their primary arguments. and what about those arguments is problematic in your estimation? well, let's begin by saying that i think increasingly we don't regard the people using heaviness m as a cover, as, as being honest about what they're doing. because this isn't feminists. and if you go back to the 19 seventy's and the merchant says, a 2nd way feminist them on both sides of the atlantic, trans people and feminist women had an enormous amount in common because we are, we both suffer some of the same problems with the attitude to society towards our bodily autonomy and having a voice. so we've, we've always had, had things to, to work on together. but i would characterize this is a bit like people wrapping themselves in the trappings. all christian religion in

order to practice white supremacy or, or, or whatever other line they want to take. i don't think the people we're talking about really are feminists. and they figured it was if they were going to tackle the a successful lesbian, gay, bisexual, and trans people, then they should begin by trying to ship one of those letters off the block cursing . but let me, let me push you on that just a little bit because while you're absolutely right bit there are people on the far right who have strategize to push trans sieves out of the conversation entirely, where there are others who are being given the label, turfs, who would self identify as feminists who would follow a generally feminist politics and would say that they support trans rights. their critique would simply be that there are certain experiences, identities, points of view that says gender,

women and girls have to navigate that are different than that of transfer. we, since congress is to come for jackie rollin was gonna come from writers. i reminded the chief and then, and they would say that their advocates, the trans rights, how do you make sense of those types arguments which seem distinct from the people who are actually framing trans to what, as a problem per se? well, i mean, this isn't to model it. i think it's a, it's a very wide camp. there are people who are yet just take on the trappings of feminism, as i've said. and they're all feminists who may be have yeah, misunderstood, and past we haven't talked enough of some of the, some of the lines that are being said, you asked me before, what are the arguments against the principal one seems to be that somehow i can never be a woman, and as a result of that, i am a threat to anybody using a single sex space like a restroom or a or changing room,

or anywhere that women are yet to get a habit. have a space. it is the women only. and that is, that is advanced by high pain. the idea that somehow because i was once regarded as a man, i've got some sort of evil essence of man inside me that i can never be rid of. ah, if i had man essence inside me, i did remain demand. oh, nancy christine talked about this idea of chopping the tea off of l g b t q, or l g, b, t r a. they're groups that are doing that very directly and intentionally. for example, groups like the l g b alliance, right? they advocate very openly for lesbian, gay and bisexual says, people, but specifically not the trans community. i'm given the shared history of trans gay and lesbian people in regards to the broader struggle and the advancement set of

made of the last decade. how is this kind of truncation happening some or have these divisions intentions always existed and the broader public just hasn't known about it. so we're, we're a diverse community. the boutique humidity. you're always going to have the kind of diversity of use in a range of feelings and it would be treat, say in the u. k. and all around the world. that trans inclusion is the norm in the outer b t q plus community. it's not that that on m, lesbian, gay by people who am, don't hold that few who do want advocate only for says people's rights, but it's, it's not the most kind of common perspective. we've always fought for our rights together. we've always been in community together and when we've succeeded with succeeded because we've worked together and i think globally, the algebra, kiki rights and movement feels more strongly than ever that it is together that we should advocate for better outcomes for all of us. really, christine,

in everyday life, trans people are forced to navigate. all sorts of processes are government processes, bureaucratic processes that can make it more difficult to live. as your express gendered identity him, you get one example just with the birth certificate, but there are many like back can you walks through some of the challenges of everyday life? well, without doubt, a lot of things got easier since the, the gender recognition act generally because of the more social changes. but the difficulty is that we have phases to our lives. when i 1st transitioned many, many years ago, i didn't look as i looked now for a period of time. i looked obviously trans. and that means when you do anything, i'm just going down to the local supermarket to buy a pint of milk. you know, can be a really difficult situation for people,

particularly when all the newspapers on the, on the news stand, a blaring that that person is, is a problem. and so searching them with being a p t file or a rapist. and they can't go buy clothes in the shop because you want to try them on . somebody will get afraid that they are going to to do harm. so they're all it's, i think the experience is tend to be very individual and personal, but they have certainly got worse because of this rhetoric christine nancy, thank you so much for joining us on a front one key. alright, that's our show up for. we'll be back next week. coveted beyond well taken without hesitation. fulton died for political power,

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