is no longer needed, definitely a diesel that i am dying proficient. so it does our duty to our fellow staff members that we do indicate and upscale team to change direction, change the direction so that they can get involved in different projects. it may be difficult to tell how many lies have been saved by the diligence of members of this humble profession. and for one of the last generation of keepers like wayne, this is more than just a job. for me de la all to 0, cape columbine, south africa. ah . so again, i'm fully back with the headlines on al jazeera security forces in sudan have 5 t gas that protesters in the capital cartoon. tens of thousands rally to call on the military to stay out of politics. it was the 10th major demonstration since october, mom, it van has moved from khartoum. as the, the day progressed,

and particularly after sunset, we have noticed that the protest has begun to wayne and there has been failure on the part of testers. to cross the bridge is linking to the can central cartoon to both their own doorman and battery. so that hasn't happened, unlike in the previous, on the previous occasion. and that hasn't really reduced the momentum of their protests today. within cartoon itself, central cartoon, there have been 2 or 3 attempts to reach the president of polly's thousands tried to march. human rice growth, stir, accusing me and was military of committing and massacre as it intensified and offensive against travel forces charged remains of 13 people have been found in kaya state. the palestinian red crescent says,

israeli forces of injured 240 protesters near nobliss tensions when escalating since 2 palestinians killed and israeli settler on december 16th 15 emotional scenes in northern iraq. after the bodies of 16 migrants were returned home from france, the victims were among a group of people who drank last month trying to reach britain, france, italy, and the u. k. every 40 the highest number of current of ice cases. since the panoramic began. experts warning that one in 10 people in london could be infected in the coming days. and many us hospitals are severely understaffed and unable to cope with the surgeon cases. about 70000 americans were in hospital with covered 19 as of friday. that figure is up about 50 percent from early november. those are the headlines on al jazeera. i'll be back with more news after upfront to stay with the listening post cuts through the noise was so key about competing now,

seeing modern day was being used to perpetuate with the listening post your guide to the media on us j 0 with an increase in hate crimes, incendiary rhetoric in the media, and public discourse around protections for transgender people becoming more hostile. we'll examine what's behind rising transfer. we are in the united kingdom, in what the future holds for the struggle for trans, right. with 1st domestic violence there are we deaths, infanticide and honor killing to rape and murder. women in india are subjective to some of the most dangerous conditions in the world. the latest available data says india recorded and average 77 rape cases daily in 2020. so what's causing this epidemic of violence and is enough being done to ended. we'll ask swati, molly, well, who is the chairperson of the delhi commission for women? so wasn't really well,

thank you so much for joining us on upfront. but can you explain some of the main forms of fem aside and how they affect everyday women? i would like to just explain to you what all are actually happening. i had the deli commission for them. it is the stature to the body in india and our every day in delhi itself, 6 reps are happening. 8 month old baby was recently a deep than the captain, and i had gone and visited the good the via, she was bleeding. she was in an intensive care unit, the entire hospital, the entire nurses, everybody, the doctors. i mean, we, every, every one had group within so much effort, an article just the of that chain. an 8 month old baby was raped, a 90 year old girl, a woman is raped, so the kind of rapes and the kind of sexual crimes that are happening in our country, are your lead your li, horrific? so everything from dom stick morland's to being discriminated in your workplace, to sexual harassment in the workplace, to cyprus, talking to you know,

the child being killed in the womb, which since all of these kind of crimes are happening on a very, very large scale in the country and i think even world over optical with the kind of domestic violence, incidences that have increased everywhere across the world. it is quite sad. i'm even in india, the number of cases have gone up like it's been quite back. indeed, as somebody, the latest available data says in india 29.5 percent of women have experienced physical violence since the age of 15. and in 2018, india was named the most dangerous country in the world to be a woman due to the high risk of sexual violence and slave labor. was at the root of this. i think a lot of self patriarchy and massage in, in like, in, in the country, due to all kind of sexual women. since that man actually feels very, very far from he seems that he can get away with anything. and in the india,

especially, the justice systems are full back that people actually have morphia, they feel that they can get away with all kinds of avoidance and crimes. and that is, i think, got the major root cause of all these issues. another thing is that opportunity. sions, i think there's a complete lack of will. of most politicians actually many of them, they get away with bitty bitty, shameful statements. recently we had but the government's chief minister, who said that that really happened because good, very short codes. similarly, there are people who say that rapes happened because goods are having mobile phones . they see that's going to be happening because going eating hawk on holders. so all kinds of statements made by these, from the political pieces and they actually get away with it. so i think what caused like the world over is patriarchy for jeanie and the failure of the system to put any kind of checks against in 2020 delhi,

the national capital reported more rapes than the other union territory in india. your part of a p has been leading the government of delhi since 2015 and promised to ensure the safety of women. what's happened. i think of just the fact that particular state is reporting more cases doesn't mean that the crime in that particular state is more. i don't agree with that because you'll see, at least in delhi, the reporting is happening. you have states like thought that the issue have states, other states in the country where reporting is not there, people are not even having, having the courage to come up to the police station to report. and even the witness is feeling to the 40 cases. so i think it does not about danny. i think it is about the entire country and the situation remains the same everywhere. right. but why the why the, let's assume that that's the case and there is no more dangerous in any other place

. the question still remains, if the a p ran and is committed to ensuring the safety of women, have it failed to do so. and if so, why? for i'm not saying that daily is less dangerous than other places in the country. i'm seeing all places in the country including daily, are equally dangerous, as far as the me party government, as far as the, the legal goods concern. you see that the ready of your state of affairs in the national capital are the law and order off the national capital doesn't come under the money party. it comes into the central government. that's that. i think that all parties of the country, everybody, all political leaders of whether it is mr. moore be with does mr. cage re, while everybody has to come down together. i'm actually help this issue somehow. make sure that systems are in place, but let's get to the forces that accountability fit, that some kind off message is given to criminals. that if you do any crime,

you will not be fed. and within 6 months, there is going to be, you know, you will be given the punishment. so i think strong systems need to be made. and i think all governments have to come together to be able to do what role can or should the police play? do you fund of mentally trust the police to properly respond to the issue of sexual violence against women? we have to cross all systems. we have to just create better system. police has to be trusted. it's just that they need to be that accountability needs to be fed vailable. this has been demanding for the past 13 years. 66 calvin willis, both know from the 2nd central government and it has failed to get a me. i had to sit on a thin be 13 day, long hunger strike in order to get the policy for the state of daily. but how many have more hunger strikes to people like us have to do in order to get what is the do of the daily lives, but not just stack discourses a site? the fact is that if they're not accountability for just add more than sources to them, nothing will change. so i think it is important. but accountability set that resources

are given. i'm systems are created. you see, if you create good system can be delivered and just now i think your point about systems, an accountability, but there's also an idiot. logical piece of this. for example, in delhi, over half a police officer survey said they believed either a high or a very high amount of gender based violence. complaints were false in motivated. so even if we add more police and make them more accountable. fundamentally don't believe women will any of it matter? of course, the entire system, right, from the politicians right from the police, from the doctors and nurses, everybody, the entire system needs to be sensitized. but how do you sensitize a system like that? how do you think that i have so many people in one goal? you do it by creating the systems? so if a woman comes and reports a case, what will it station, right from the time the plus bullets officer meet that woman built the time her

case is actually the can, the, the conviction happens. the entire system needs to be made more sensitive. if you ensure that an 8 month old baby was raped, if you will ensure justice to hard with them 6 months to the justice system through the live, to all of the, of different people who have different roles in this process. that this when there will be a message in the society that you cannot go, you cannot just get away with times against women. let's circle. it just looks like you in 2019. you went on a 12 day hunger strike, demanding the death penalty for individuals who are convicted of raping minors. but according to the death penalty information center, there hasn't been any conclusive evidence that the death penalty reduces crime. in fact, the un high commissioner for human rights has said, quote, evidence shows that the certainty of punishment rather than its severity deter crime, how they respond to that argument. a 5 year old girl was leapt in my country. ah,

she was gang raped her eyes were gouged out. ah, her each and every born in her body was 1st broken. she was strangled and then they killed her. what do you explain to her parents? what do you think justice looked like for them? so it's violent, my hunger strike. i sacked one by one, so fact on a hunger strike. it lasted for 10 days on the 10th day, the government boston ordinance. that all cases off. crimes against women will be disposed off within 6 months. i'm in the rest of the rare cases and in the important cases, in the cases where something really horrific has happened, the death penalty will be given on the 10th day of my hunger strike. when this ordinance scheme i broke my hunger strike again. i had to sit after a year and a half on another hunger strike for my question is a little too far away from the question,

which is if the evidence shows that the death penalty doesn't reduce crime, why do you still wanted? it sounds like you're saying, and i want to make sure i'm, i'm characterizing your words correctly, that as a pun, as almost revenge, that the death penalty is the proper response. and even if you knew that the death penalty, well, let me ask you differently. even if you knew the death penalty wouldn't reduce the number of rapes that occur in the country. would you still support the death penalty in the cases that you described? all i'm trying to save my 1st and foremost reminder that each and every keys that justice should be delivered and it should be delivered in a particular time frame. within 6 months, all of the processes they need to happen within 6 months and that needs to be done . after that. yes, i, i am talking on behalf of all the sexual assaults away both who mind meeting almost every day. there's been, has become my been and i think whatever the way the, whatever those to be might suggest. i think drastic time school for drastic

measures. what needs to be done as you need to give strong punishment in each and every case. and yes, in cases which are completely horrific, which shock the conscience of the nation, certain very, very drastic steps like that they've been and they should be. and that do punishment is not a form of revenge. what is important is that if the machine is given, a message goes across to the people that they cannot get away with it. today, what is happening is that a person commits a crime, goes to the jail for a big comes out on bill, and then it's coming thing the spam horrific claim again and again and again. so how do you ensure that country as large as ours, how do you ensure that there are systems that are in place to ensure that people have that kind of fewer, that they cannot get away with crying? i want to increase accountability of live. i want to increase to for that i want better for in 6. i want better osha the homes. i want better rehabilitation. so both the systems and both other needs that one is, you know,

trying to fight for and job. i very strongly believe in systems. i believe that if justice is delivered in time, a lot of change can happen and that before to fight this for. so i will, i will thank you so much for joining us on upfront. the trans phobia is rising in the u. k. hate crimes are increasing every year. hostile rhetoric dominates the media coverage of trans people. and despite prime minister boris johnson's pledge to ban conversion, there is the government continues to delay reforms some on both the left and the right sides of the political spectrum, argue that trans rights are a threat to women's rights. just how dangerous is it to be transgender in the u. k . and is transformed in the media, making things worse. joining me to discuss this are christine burns, editor of trans britain, and nancy kelly, chief executive of stonewall. the u. k. based l g b t q plus human rights organization. thank you both for joining me on up front. kristin, i'm going to start with you. before we talk about the situation in the u. k. could

you briefly explain what we mean by these terms, assists and trans people? yes, certainly not. the way we understand trans these days is as to cover any people whose sense on themselves in a, in a language which just has binary opposite said man and woman is opposite to the way they have presumed to be on the basis of how they were assessed. at the, so i'm a trans woman because i was identified as a boy when i was born. and when later when i grew up, i told people, no, actually i'm a woman. and sis people then are those whose sense of self or i didn't gender identity aligns with their biological assignment. ebert, that's exactly right. you've got it. all right, christine, the council of europe, that's europe's leading human rights organization. recently criticized the u. k. along with poland, hungary, russia,

turkey for arise and hate speech violence and hate crimes against l. g b, t. i. people, a recent report by the organization found online abuse against trans people, a harmful political and social discourse about trans rights, and a sharp increase in trans phobic crimes in the u. k. why is the u. k, so hostile to trans people? until the mysteries all of us, it wasn't widespread until extremely recently. as late as 2017, we made steady advances for the trans people in britain with legislation that protected our employment rights. our right to be served in shops and use other services. and of course the, the gender recognition act, which i was part of bringing forwards in 2004, which provides legal recognition to trans people. and most importantly is designed

to enable a trans women like me to change my originally issued birth certificate. so that if somebody asked to state that most fundamental identity document, then i'm not immediately out it. because as you can see, most of the day when i walk around in, in this world, people don't know i'm trans unless i choose to tell. but if you were going to jump in, i was so if i can just build on that, i think one of the things it's really important is to am kind of separate out the public conversation about trans people in trans rights in the u. k. so or media or politics from the attitudes of the general public's the attitude to the general public can u. k. are broadly very positive and younger people, women hot more highly educated people are all, much more likely to, to view trans people positively and to be supportive of equal rights for trans people and anti discrimination protections for trans people em and really being

transferred be can you case is a kind of minority position as some great research from the quality human rights commission that shows it's about it's about one in 6 people in the u. k that a transfer back. so what's distinctive about the u. k, i guess is, is the tone of our national conversation about trans people given the fact that actually generally speaking of public, a pretty accepting was, are such a gap between the public media discourse and the disposition of everyday people. yeah, i would blame that directly on our media a we made all these advances. we change the law many times to make life safer. the trans people overpaid about 15 years from the beginning of the 19 ninety's until the agenda recognition act in 2004. and most people didn't even notice we were there because we don't impinge on people's lives. we. we just want to get on with having private lives and, and it wasn't until about 2017 that

a conflicted campaign was launched with certain of britain's newspapers and newspapers in particular making a big issue that suddenly we went to having with some newspapers, trail for articles very negative article. yeah, i'm reading some of the headline the week. yeah, i'm reading some of the headline. yeah. in the u. k. press, they point to a so called trans lobby, a headlines of claims like lesbians facing extinction. the cancellation of women is bigger than a culture war and shoot and the children are being, quote, sacrificed to appease the trans lobby. nancy, when we hear that kind of rhetoric and it's christine said, it's emerging in the recent time. what's driving it, what's pushing it at this juncture and history? i mean, i think it's in a way this is about the way the media functions, right? this is about the degree to which a story becomes a story. and then proliferates and particularly proliferates through social media

sources as well. and i think it's important to think about both the volume of content we've got in the u. k. m. and the nature of that content which christine was pointing to. so our press regulator saw that between 229-2019 you see a 400 percent increase in coverage of trans people and their lives. and. and that's just kind of too much to be talking about such a small population. so we should, we should start with by a christine in the u. k. some of the most vocal voices who see including trans people in the struggle for equality as a problem. are people who identify as feminists, they've been called trans, exclusionary radical feminists or turfs, one of the primary arguments. and what about those arguments is problematic in your estimation? well, let's begin by saying that i think increasingly we don't regard the people using feminism as a cover, as, as being honest about what they're doing. because this isn't feminism. if you go

back to the 19 seventy's and the merchant says, a 2nd way feminist among both sides of the atlantic, trans people and feminist women had an enormous amount in common because we are, we both suffer some of the same problems with the attitude to society. towards our bodily autonomy and having a voice. so we've, we've always had, had things to, to work on together. but i would characterize this is a bit like people wrapping themselves in the trappings. all christian religion in order to practice white supremacy or, or, or whatever other line they want to take. i don't think the people were talking about really are feminists. and they, because it was, if they were going to tackle the a successful lesbian, gay, bisexual, and trans people, then they should begin by trying to ship one of those letters off the block cursing

. but let me, let me push you on that just a little bit because while you're absolutely right that there are people on the far right who have strategize to push trans sieves out of the conversation entirely. there are others who are being given the label turfs, who would self identify as feminists who would follow a generally feminist politics. i would say that they support trans rice. their critique would simply be that there are certain experiences. identities are points of view that says gender, women and girls have to navigate that are different than that of transfer. we, since conversational project rollin, we've seen a come from writers, i reminded the chief and then, and they would say that their advocates, the trans rights. how do you make sense of those types, arguments which seem distinct from the people who are actually framing trans to what, as a problem per se? well, i mean, this isn't a model it, i think it's a, it's

a very wide camp. there are people who are it just take on the trappings of feminism, as i've said. and they're all feminists who may be, have yet misunderstood and past we haven't talked enough. and some of the, some of the lines that are being said, you asked me before it, what are the arguments against the principal one seems to be that somehow i can never be a woman. and as a result of that, i am a threat to anybody using a single sex space like a restroom or a or changing room or anywhere that women are. yeah. to get have us have a space. it is for women only. and that is, that is advanced by high pain. the idea that somehow because i was once regarded as a man, i've got some sort of evil essence of man inside me that i can never be rid of. if

i had man essence inside me, i did remain demand. nancy christine talked about this idea of chopping the tea off of l g b, t q, or l g, b, t, r i. there are groups that are doing that very directly and intentionally. for example, groups like the l g b alliance, right? they advocate very openly for lesbian, gay and bisexual says, people, but specifically not the trans community. i'm given the shared history of trans gay and lesbian people in regards to the broader struggle. and the advancements that have made of the last decade, how is this kind of truncation happening call or have these divisions intentions always existed and the broader public just hasn't known about it. so we were a diverse community, the boutique humidity. you're always going to have the kind of diversity of use in a range of feelings and it would be treat, say in the u. k. and all around the world. that trans inclusion is the norm in the

outer b t q plus community. it's not that that on em, lesbian, gay by people who am don't hold that few who do want to advocate only for says people's rights, but it's, it's not the most kind of common perspective. we've always fought for our rights together. we've always been in community together and when we've succeeded with succeeded because we've worked together and i think globally the algebra tiki rights and movement feels more strongly than ever that it is together that we should advocate for better outcomes for all of us. really, christine, in everyday life, trans people are forced to navigate. all sorts of processes are government processes, bureaucratic processes that can make it more difficult to live. as your express gender identity him, you gave one example just with the birth certificate, but there are many like back can you walks through some of the challenges of everyday life? well, without doubt, a lot of things got easier since the,

the gender recognition act generally because of the more social changes. but the difficulty is that we have phases to our lives. when i 1st transitioned many, many years ago, i didn't look as i looked now for a period of time. i looked obviously trans. and that means when you do anything, just going down to the local supermarket to buy a pint of milk. you know, can be a really difficult situation for people, particularly when all the newspapers on the, on the news stand, a blaring that that person is, is a problem. and so searching them with being a p to file or a rapist. and they can't go buy clothes in the shop if you want to try them on, somebody will get afraid that they are going to to do harm. so they're all yeah it's i think the experience is tend to be very individual and personal,

but they have certainly got worse because of this rhetoric christine nancy, thank you so much for joining us. all right, thank you. all right, that's our show up for. we'll be back next week. a while to warm. we listen, design is are making serious separate 19 and just talk with the latest news as it breaks and new men with the added weight of these giant, dumb fraud. having more moving power. these being able to extract more goal more quickly with detail covering everywhere you look,

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