emptying champion the future, we are still living an uncertain and difficult time because of d pandemic. many a fraction about a future unburdened by the facial situation of a personal problem is by the danger is coming from the environmental crisis. from the injustice system from cabinetry economic imbalances. looking at mary holding her son in her arms, i think of the young mothers and their children fleeing wars and family waiting and refugee camps. there are lots awe y'all just bear with me. so he'll rob the reminder of all top stories. archbishop desmond tutu has been described to the crusader in the struggle for freedom, justice, equality, and peace. during his funeral service in cape town, the anti apartheid hero died last sunday. at the age of 90, the rapids spread of the crew along as article berry into the u. s. has led to a shortage of test kits. neal washington, dc. on the epi centers of america's cove, at 19 outbreak,

recording the highest numbers of daily infections. today's john 100 has more from washington d. c. all of the boosting and all of the vaccinations are not stopping the spread of this. and so people when they get sick are running into testing centers. now more than ever, and that means testing centers are over run, there aren't enough tests in the united states. president biden said he was gonna try to solve this problem. he's offered 500000000 tests, more than one for every american. with that still not enough. and meanwhile, the industries have been hit one after the other. the airline industry, perhaps the biggest. there were 4000 flight cancellations on saturday, worldwide. 2500 of those right here in the us. you can do is re thing on the wall of the strict is locked down to the world. schools will start up again after being close for the 2 years. and nighttime curfew will also be lifted. is where the forces of last artillery and strikes in garza after rocket fire earlier in the day, but believed to have had empty fields. it's seen as

a show falls after rockets large from garza london off the coast of tel aviv that these 12 people have died in a stamp paid at a religious shrine. an indian administered kiss me, diabetes are mocking the new year. at least 13 other people were injured taken to hospital, thousands of people of also marched in cities across the wrong to voice the anger at the us. 2 years after top, iranian general was assassinated. more than 1000 homes have been destroyed by wildfires in colorado. heavy snow helps bring the fires into control the freezing temperatures are making life difficult for those forced to sleep in shelters. you can follow those stories on our website at algae dot coms updated throughout the day. i'll have more news in half an hour here on out there. that's after inside story to stay with us. ah!

coven 19 has changed the way we work. restrictions have forced people to operate from home instead of the office. but millions are also now quitting their jobs in what dub the great resignation. so will 2020 to be a turning point for labor relations. this is inside story. ah. hello and welcome to the program. i'm a hammer, jim jim, for 2 years now, because of the pandemic, many of us have had to change the way we work. working from home is becoming the

norm. as people avoid crowded transport systems and offices, even some journalists producing this program are operating remotely. and with the i'm a chron variant spreading fast, more governments are encouraging, so called hybrid worked. for example, france has told people to work from home at least 3 days a week if they can. it's a further challenge to work. life balance surveys found people are working up to 3 hours more a day than before the pandemic. in some cities, companies have decided to rent less office space, or redesign them to allow more social distancing between employees. nany commercial offices want to shrink the footprint they have. debt is leases, terms is far, workspace goes, expand the open space, the amenities space in the offices. so there's more room for a for flow. so people aren't up of each other. while some can work from home.

people in the health care and hospitality industry is don't have that option as locked downs, forced shops and restaurants to close. employees went for months without pay other essential workers, including couriers and warehouse staff, or eat for e commerce giants, such as amazon often work without sick pay or medical insurance. the pandemic has led to what some have dubbed the great resignation. millions of employees unhappy with their jobs quit to pursue roles with better work life balance. in the u. s. a . record 4400000 people resigned in september, and a survey of 6000 british workers found a quarter of them want to change employers within 3 to 6 months. job vacancies are at record highs and many industrialized nations with companies struggling to hire and retain staff. ah. all right, for more on all this, i'm joined by our guests from belmont, california, dave car, heart vice president at lattice of people management software company that helps

employees identify track and manage their own career paths in san juan, puerto rico shannon lists riordan, a labor law attorney at the firm, linkedin and lis riordan, p c. and in tokyo, casey wall seo and co founder of a tuned dot, a i a recruiting platform that uses artificial intelligence to understand what motivates employees a warm welcome to you all. and thanks for joining us today. on inside story shannon, let me start with you. we know that the pandemic has transformed the workplace. for many, we know that there are millions of workers out there who have achieved more flexibility by being able to work remotely from home. but i want to ask you about those workers who aren't able to work from home. i'm talking about gig workers, i'm talking about essential workers. how has all this impacted them? well, yes, that hand and it has really exacerbated vide between the haves and have nots. you

might say there are a lot of people who have gained flexibility from being able to work wherever, whenever i and there are a lot of people out there who have the luxury of working no ha, essential workers, gig workers, groceries for workers and hospital workers who had to be impersonating themselves at rest and it's just, it's been a very flat time for, for a lot of people. and g worker isn't particular it's, it's interesting. there been huge battles going on across united states across the world. and about kid worker is having protections as employees and the argument that's been made as well, they have a flexibility. so how could they be employees that we've seen workers across the world get flexibility and there's and it's still hot, basic crisis employee. so i think, i think a lot of people come to realize that contradiction and come to realize how important these workers have been just said, just to keep our society down. dave,

when it comes to working during a pandemic and especially working remotely, what lessons have been learned so far? yeah, so i think what we've seen is that there's, there's huge benefits for, for companies where they are able to enable remote and hybrid work. you can open up the talent tools that you have access to, you're able to provide employees with a lot more flexibility. we also learned that there's big challenges and that can be in building community in collaborators and communication norms. and in a sense of sometimes employees not being able to disconnect and have a balance between work and life. and so 2022 is, is when employers will really need to figure out how to make this all work and in practice for a large portion of the workforce, particularly office based work hybrid and virtual work isn't going away. and so

you need to figure out how to make all of those things work in practice to be able to get those benefits was dealing with some of the challenges that come along with casey, how much has the pandemic lead people around the world to rethink and re evaluate their relationship with work and more specifically with their jobs. it's certainly been the great reassessments. we've been in lockdown, you know, for white collar workers been at home type of thing. and now 2 years into it, people have really looked inside themselves, right. and the values, why am i doing the jobs here that i'm committed to beforehand as a good work or as where the company type of thing like that. and what we've seen in our data. so what we actually do is we measure people's intrinsic motivation at work we can show and display that. we've seen a huge shift and actually what measures people. ringback across the world,

so the values that are driving people, my, they're choosing their jobs, why they're choosing those companies have shifted. and it's been different because there's kind of individual perspectives of the, this is like a fingerprint with intrinsic motivations. but we've been seeing across like surprising need for more rationality, more logical explanations from their employers, from a kind of a reason for making the policies that they're doing for from this side as well. so i think we're still starting to see the 1st parts of the followed and people making different choices that align more with their values towards work from now, shannon you spoke before about the pandemic creating this growing divide between different types of workers. and we also know that workers' rights advocates around the world have been demanding better paying better working conditions, especially during the pandemic for laborers. i want to ask you specifically about a case in the u. s. amazon reached a settlement with the national labor relations board in 6 cases,

and that's going to help pay the way for workers to unionize going forward. so i want to ask you, are we going to see more cases like this going forward and are we going to see more workers get a seat at the table? well, that's one possible overlying we have here is that workers have sounding in rates. and they've had a greater ability to leverage that need for their services more than we have seen in a long time. and so you're seeing workers and all types of industries demand better working conditions, man, better pay at the same time as our new administration here in the united states, there was a greater focus now on workers, right? so this is converging together. we have a national labor relations board who is more aggressive about ensuring that workers have the ability to come together and demand better working conditions. and that

less economic conditions now, which employers really need to please is, is reading or a lot of workers much better pay and opportunities for making demands on their workplaces and making them better with their needs and their last dave, this remote work experiment that so many of us around the world have been a part of since the beginning of the pandemic. i mean, even, even on this program we have some of the journalists we work with that are working from home. how much has it actually transformed the workplace? i think a huge amount we recently did a survey of more than 700 h r professionals and roughly 60 percent of them said that in 2022 they would be in their organizations having some type of hybrid work. and in general, a significantly larger amount, then they had pre cobit that affects everything from how you keep different teams

aligned with each other to how you communicate to how you information traveled through an organization and how you work together. so it's, it's having really profound impact and i don't think that we'll get it all right. as, as we go into it and, you know, setting policy is 1st step. but it's going to take a number of years of experimentation to really figure this out. it's something that we've certainly seen internally at lattice, as we've moved into a hybrid workplace, that it really takes. it really takes work to figure out how to make this work in practice. we've had decades of figuring out how to make a purely office based environment working. it's going to take time to figure out how to make that work in a hybrid work. work environment. casey, you talked before about this idea of

a great reassessment taking place and there's been a lot of reporting on what's been dubbed the great resignation. people frustrated with their jobs, especially during the pandemic and really just moving on to other things, quitting their jobs. i want to ask you, are there really that many workers that are putting their jobs, or is it just that there are more people who actually want to quit now? and is this all pandemic linked? certainly, i don't think it's pandemic linked. i mean, the pandemic gave us, in some ways, an opportunity to reassess the way we're spending a huge amount of our non family, non private lives where we go out in the workforce, right. if you're at home, you're at home, you don't have changing environment type of thing like that. and a lot of what they was kind of mentioning some of the cracks. i companies are still adjusting with how to work with remote work and hybrid work in the cracks that those companies had are becoming more parents. so, you know, if you are working with

a manager that your value system didn't align with that you didn't feel psychologically safe and to raise your opinion type of thing like that. you didn't feel connected to your team before. those are only exacerbated. so i think what we're seeing is people getting, having time to understand without being able to go out all the entertainment, all the different things that usually take up our energy. and they've been able to reflect. and it's this reflection where people are starting to understand more about themselves, what really makes them happy and what they need out of work and starting to make choices. so i think this is going to continue to play out for years. and the companies that can be more agile and meet the needs of each individual, not just on scope, but each individual will be able to retain people more and keep them more engaged, should be more agile to, to kind of meet the features of the organization that don't are really going to struggle shannon, i know you touched on this a bit in your, in your answer a few minutes ago, but, but i'm curious, get your point of you also on this great resignation. i mean, if this does,

as casey said, continue to play out, you know, for the next several years, is this going to be something really ends up having the power to bring about change? yes, i mean we're seeing so many changes happening and we're only just starting to get a glimpse of what it's really means for a future related point that i do want to note is that a lot of the people out there who resigning are people who have responsibilities or, or care for children or elder relatives and those responsibilities more often on women and men. so a lot of the people you're seeing leaving the workforce now. it's not all by choice . sure. there are a lot of people who are reevaluating what they want in life, what they want out of their work lives. and they are taking time to choose different options. and there are a lot of people who don't really have a lot of choices and you're seeing women leaving the workforce in much greater numbers and madness and that you've seen for

a long time. so another issue that we're going to need to be facing as a society in years. what do you about this gender divide that has been created? and a lot of the women who are leaving the workforce are going to fall behind in their rears. and what are we going to do to try to set it back on track? women have made so many advances in the workplace of the past decades. and this could be a significant step back for women to work and share. and if i could just follow up with you, i mean, what from your perspective can be done to actually rectify this? well, i mean there's, there is a lot of work that employers need to do, like other panelists just mentioned that employers are going to need to meet employees where they need to be sure. it's one thing to be flexible to let people work wherever they want. but what are you going to do about work are going to be able that are not going to be able to carry on with their full time schedules or

need to balance different in the workplace case. and you're not going to set them back in a promotion. so i just, i think a lot of sensitivity, those need by employers realizing that in the long run it's in their interest to keep their best workers and their best talent and in their workplace gets queued away from many of the women who have been keeping companies in, in firms a load and doing so well over the years, they're going to really need attention these issues in addition to the pay equity issues. which about civil for a long time. this is just making the need for a family leave to be even more start as well as even greater recognition for the needs of working and working on dave, i saw you nodding along quite a bit of what shannon was saying there. did you want to jump in? yeah, i completely agree. i think that 1st,

hybrid work and flexibility on and virtual and remote options is certainly one of the things that organizations can do. that opens up the, the ability to recruit and to bring in as broad and diverse as possible as a group of employees. and we know that that's one of the things that helps make organizations and culture is more successful. is that diversity and i think to shanice point around the pay and benefits of the coming year and all of these different challenges that we're seeing, the tight labor markets, the move to hybrid work, all of the additional employee power and leverage that is happening right now. is really going to create a shift in compensation and benefits. and so i think it organizations need to be looking at that right now. how do you both benchmark and set pay in

a fair and equitable way? and also how do you take a look at the benefits that you have and whether that's including paid family leave, which many organizations still now have, or also looking at other benefits. time are separate articles. we just introduced a new sabbatical policy here within lattice as well as additional 6 additional company holidays. precisely because in a hybrid world, we're finding such a challenge with employees disconnecting and being able to take time off of all of that. employers will need a reassessment coming year and casey, when it comes to the psychological aspect of all this in the psychological impact of what the pandemic has done when it comes to the traditional workspace. you know, there is an argument that's been made by some out there that says that office space is when it comes to certain types of jobs aren't actually needed anymore. what do you say to that? it's needed for some people, for sure. i think office space is, are important for certain things and it's almost kind of like we need as an

employer, myself and running a company myself and also working with our customers. they're thinking about it. how can we make this kind of a different place? it's not home, it's not the office as we know it, but it's somewhere with a different function that we're going to. it's where. busy we bring people together, those teams that got siloed. busy you know, during the pandemic and they don't have that cross talk is more so they. busy can sit next to each other. busy you know, speak to somebody, they don't usually speak to get that empathy, understand the customer, understand the product a little bit better. so it's facilitating these different types of interactions or bringing people together. is it once a month visit every 3 months or every 6 months, each organization is to figure that out? but i think the purpose where, you know, it's not everybody has a desk in a stack of papers type of thing and this is your, it is needs to shift and especially for kind of office workers on that side of it. but on the psychological aspect, not everybody needs it. there's and what we see, there's about 10 percent that absolutely need it. and they want to go to work with

the another 10 percent that don't want it. and this is across the range of data that we have. casey, let me also follow up with you on another point when, when we're talking about the psychological impact again, about all of this, i mean, what does it do to workers when they get used to working from home? and then they're told me to come back to the office, perhaps some type of hybrid work or maybe full time. and then there's another variant of the, of the corona virus and then they need to go back home again. i mean, what kind of an impact is that it's rough, i think in general, most people do not like change and do not have braces. so this goes back to that need that we saw shifting across peoples, you know, desire and motivation for work is rationality. they want logical explanation. so, you know, if a company is going to go to hybrid work and they're going to move away from it or, or kind of shift the days, they need clear expressions and they need to give that opportunity for feedback. so voices can be heard that it's not just

a decision. another part of the decision making process type of thing. like if it's locked down or government related, well ok, the government needs to explain kind of properly there. and the organization needs to do the best that they can to kind of support that. so i think, you know, on the employer side of things, it's how clearly can you communicate and how early and how inclusive can you make those decision making processes. shannon, the international labor organization says that the coven, $1000.00 pandemic, has exacerbated inequalities and pushed millions of people into poverty. do you think that we're going to see more governments around the world move to expand social protections, and to invest and job growth? i think it's absolutely. ringback a dire need and i do think there is greater recognition among the public about the needs of wage workers. they've been much more visible to so many people want people been locked in our homes. so many people rely on delivery workers to bring groceries to bring the meals from

restaurants to bring them packages, the things they would have usually gone to the store and bought. and i think that that visibility of this was a hidden workforce, i think is going to increase the pressure or greater rejections and right for these workers and that combined with the need for workers. now i, i am hopeful that is going to lead to significant games for worker protections and work right. and in the, in the coming years. but it is a rush. it is a rough patch we're going through. there are different ways that this is a different part of the workforce, right? yeah. but i think in the end they need or having these workers be available to do what we need to do to carry on as is going to give them leverage to

get better protection and better. right. so i am hopeful dave, how disruptive has this time been to modern business history and what are some of the biggest challenges the businesses are going to be facing in 2022 from your vantage point? yeah, so it's been an enormous disruption to what you asked about before the the, the waves of co good walk downs than they come off changing policies. that's been a huge disruption. and now with so many people reassessing their options, tight labor markets. a lot of organizations are seeing rising attrition and challenges both retaining and recruiting employees. obviously there's a lot of organizations that are also on the winning side of that equation. and when the employees are, are quitting and resigning and choosing to go somewhere else there's,

there's organizations that are providing the flexibility or responding to some of those different motivators or needs that people are expressing. and so that's definitely shifting the workplace and the market right now. think looking at 22022 companies will need to figure out what this hybrid work means in practice about how they really not only set policy, but really enable the right communication, collaboration, community in their organizations. and again, really rework their, their compensation and benefits strategy to respond to those changes in the market . casey, we only have about a minute. let me just ask you for those who are thinking of quitting their jobs or who have quit their jobs. how worried are they that they are going to be able to find a new job? i mean, how much is that concern playing into the decision making from what you've seen? massive changing a job is one of the most stressful and high anxiety. things that people do in their

life and there's information disparity, they don't know what's out there. they can see a brand of a company, but they don't know the team. they don't know the manager and you know, people join companies and joined visions, but they leave managers and it's very hard to understand what am i actually getting myself into, even if they can find it there. so it's tremendous amount of anxiety. and i think what we can do as hers is trying to reduce that create more transparency, more openness about ok. this is actually what you're walking into and what you will receive and not just trying to fill a see type of thing. all right, well we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thank you so much. all of our guest, dave car, heart, shannon, lease reardon and casey wall. and thank you for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al jazeera dot com, and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also, during the conversation on twitter, our handle is at ha, inside stored from him. how much room in the whole team here,

bye for now. ah, ah. january and i just, i hear we look back on you as president joe biden supposed you in office 12 months on from the capital building by be part of the stream, enjoy mo, social media community. s, sierra leone recovery from civil war continues. we mock 2 decades since the end of one of africa's most political complex,

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gold deposits for why is it one of your walks biggest exports counting the cost on al jazeera ah to. ready your challenges there with me, the hill robinson, doha reminder of our top news stories. archbishop desmond tutu has been described as a crusader in the struggle for freedom, justice equality and peace. during his funeral service in cape town, the anti apartheid hero died last sunday at the age of 90 his ashes sobbing in turned ga cathedral where he preached against racial injustice, sierra. the rapid spread of the current was overcome variance in the u. s. as led to a shortage of test kits. new york, washington dc, all the epi centers of america cove at 19 outbreak.