floating around here, young joe, to wou hahn in some showers, not too far away from grey lynde with the high of 9 degrees, while tokyo sides, heaviest snowfall in 4 years, 10 centimeters, but an improvement in conditions on saturday, with the height of 7 degrees. and now you're in the no season for the weather sponsored by katara always. ah, an american and dog, the top stories on al jazeera, a white father and son convicted of killing a black, georgia, have been sentenced to life in prison without parole. a jury frown travis and gregory mcmichael guilty of murdering homage aubrey. the neighbor william bryan also received a life sentence with the possibility of parole and that he is my prey. i was to,

to get justice for my key. he fought for us in the court. he gave with a fair judge, just won, flaky. he heard the testimonies of each of these witness. he gave us a very good verde, and he gave us a very good sentence. but i knew that we would come out with the victory. i never doubted any cause or so on. president has told his forces they can shoot to kill without warning, as he tries to end a violent protest against his government. dozens of protesters and security personnel have been killed. more than 3000 people have been detained. russian lead forces have been deployed gl dustin, each of them are emotional terrorists, continue to damage public and private property in use weapons against citizens. more young, i gave an order to law enforcement agencies and the army to open fire without warning was going to have been called abroad for the parties in order to move the

negotiations to a peaceful resolution. what nonsense, kind of negotiations can there be with criminals? with murderers before he had to deal with armed and chained bandits, both local and foreign customers, that's why they have to be destroyed. and there will be dancer jerry, the u. s. supreme court is deciding if the white house can enforce a vaccine mandate for large private employers. the rules apply to companies with more than a 100 employees. the decision could have an impact on as many as 18000000 workers. india is introducing mandatory home quarantine, vol. international passenger arrivals the new measures apply even if travelers return a negative toby 19 test at the airport and pioneering act as in the pot he has died age 94. he was the 1st black person to win the academy award for best actor for his role in the 1963 film lily's of the field. those the headlines news continues here

on out 0 after the stream. and of get out there dot com. the latest news, as it breaks, a new man with the dad of the boys of these giant john ross having more, wasn't bo, this new rock walkie more with detail coverage? everywhere you look, there is this structure of the sort survive your tell a lie will never be the same against them from around the world. he fell to the ground and cried out. i'm going to prison. the question the jury has to decide now is should chip with high and for me, ok, today on the stream. could it blocking out the sun actually help reduce the temperature down here on earth? let me show you what i mean. for instance, you could have material pumped into ass stratosphere,

that material could reflect the sun's rays or solar energy all the way back to the sun. meaning that we down here a cat color, that is a very basic, we're dementia understanding of solar geo engineering. there are pros, there are cons, though, unknowns and unknowns. there is a debate. let's take a look. should we be pursuing sola geo engineering? the answer is that we just don't know. what we do know is that the impacts of climate change are serious and getting worse, and that we're not doing all we need to do to address the climate crisis. so would you engineering might be a useful part of the portfolio of responses, but it also entails a wide range of poorly understood risks. a well designed research program can help us understand those ris and whether or not solar g o engineering deserves the spot . in the portfolio of climate change responses, solar, you engineering is a really dangerous idea. it is messing with the global climate system. it is

basically just about suppressing some of the symptoms of climate change. it is not doing anything about the root causes and comes with tremendous risks for global communities and ecosystems. so instead of betting on high risk technol fixes what we're really shouldn't be doing as get out of fossil fuels. that means core and gas and not be expanding any of that infrastructure. and there's really no way we can do wednesday our way out of the climate crisis. some of i guess and nodding their head, some of agatha shaking their heads. let the debate vicki. hello, david. hello angela kelly. really nice to have you on the stream. david, we introduce yourself to international audience. i'm debbie keith, them professor at harvard in public policy and also mentioning, had worked on this topic. i worked on climate for about 30 years. nice to have a hello angela. tell everybody who you all what you do. hi, be mine,

and thank you for me for having me on the show. my name is angela michelle morgan, and i'm an energy policy consulting based in your daily, in the i, haven't you done? these are things with ledger engineering, my interest in the space. if you're new from a book that's interested in climate change and the solutions that we are looking at to deal with that great to hattie and cali, please introduce yourself. i international audience watching right now. hi fremy. it's good to be here. my name is kelly wands, or i'm the executive director of the 3 year olds, are non profit organization called silver lining. and our focus in silver lining is near term climate risk. so we drive our research, we work with government stakeholders, members of the public, our youth organizations to look at expanding our portfolio of options to address climate risk in the next 30 to 40 years where we may have some gaps that might not be addressed in other ways. thank you kelly. thank you. okay,

thank you. david and audience. i know you have thoughts on this. i know you've got opinions and maybe the a couple of things that you want to ask out line on past guess. jumping to the comment section and you can be part of this discussion. the idea kelly and david that sola geo engineering may well be a climate change solution. david, you go 1st. so solution is a loaded word and then picks up exactly on the click critique. you heard, which is the idea that it's the source solution. nobody in this debate was remotely sensible things as a solution. i don't just put that off your her, but it may be is a way to substantially reduce risks over the next generation in ways that we cannot achieve by emissions cuts alone. so maybe that the combination of emissions cuts and solar g i sharing could be significantly safer, particularly for the world's most vulnerable than would be emissions cuts alone.

but no single thing as a solution. even emissions cut alone and our solution, cuz we clearly need adaptation. a complicated problem, my climate change has many different things. we need one of which may be this technology. hey, one of the things that we found as we were putting the show together, the stream so together was trying to find out or of the different ways that maybe you could reflect off the sun. the sun's radiation, the energy. so you can call at climate if that was possible. i'm looking here on my laptop at marine cal, brightening science visibility and a plan for research. can you tell us what marine cow brightening is certainly, and i appreciate your characterization. we don't tend to refer to these techniques of blocking the sun, but rather increasing the reflection of sunlight. so relatively modest amount of increase in the reflection of sunlight of clouds or particles in the atmosphere can

produce quite a large object in terms of heat energy. moving out of your system and m marine prod, brightening the ideas based on in the image that you showed on observations from things that already happen in the system today. where particles from emissions and natural sources mixed with clouds in ways that make them slightly brighter. so in the image here are the streaks that you see in the clouds. those bright streaks are actually created by the emission from ship and globally. today, scientists believe that the totality of the particles in a mission, not the particles that produce greenhouse gas, the facts, but the sort of dirtier kind of pollution particles. one of the side effects is that they mixed with clouds in this way and globally are, are thought to be creating something of a cooling effect that we don't understand very well. the idea behind the marine corp brightening is to use a cleaner or more benign material,

like sea salt particles from ocean spray and sea water bright and clouds over the ocean that are particularly susceptible to the effect. and it's thought, although there's the, sorry i'm going to be you feel if last me in the bit right. you've lost me. okay. a little bit. so help me get back on track. what do you think this is where you can hear me thinking now? like i am. all right, so if you were explaining what, what thing goes up into the stratosphere to help cool us theoretically what it, what are you are? so it's coming up from the surface. right. and in marine club, right. you the proposal is it's a salt spring that's generated from sea. water ok sprayed over the ocean into low line clouds. and so it brightens patches of these clouds in

a way that reflects large amounts of sunlight back to space. ok in a way that could produce a global cooling effect. thank you for speaking slightly. that does not ha, yeah, the audience or like way ahead of me. i'm does i want to kelly just say angeles and this is, this is fascinating. there's so much research and science going on here. why would you be concerned? no. so i think the 1st thing to realize is that novia get on the spot where your heart linked to words, acclaim it, and what you see and climate scientists and policymakers have mean us, are you aware of that? but the point is that there are 2 camps of pot on by the we need to pause you. so lord, you and he really such one camp says that, you know, we don't know enough about solar, jew engineering and it could potentially be an option that because he was in case of a climate emergency i. so we need to know more about it. so we need more research the other camp, which also consists of a different set of sam. this, it consists of environmental policy, exports, and also other governments,

such as the united kingdom that has put out statement saying that grounded he thought that is available and, and that he so said if my map, if we feel that need know enough already to make the statement that we don't need more on solar ga thinking such because it is likely to cause more detriment that benefit to certain sections of the population hydrogens. so the question do early on solar, you engineering research, is that there needs to be a point in the scene such where we stop and ask ourselves, brenda, we know enough to make this call it on whether we need to progress with the thought . the point is that, so no, you engineering cannot be an indefinite quests to make it a workable solution, despite all that think i don't think it is, i think, but here's what i think we know with real confidence. there's an enormous amount of research now over a decade and a half, the suggested the biggest drivers of global kind of risks are peak temperatures.

and they're especially drivers for the world's poorest. they kill people. they may people last economically productive and they make it harder to learn literally. the one thing we know from every single model, no exceptions about solar geo assuring is it would reduce peak temperatures and do it in a way that's pretty uniform. it's not like there's some group assigned as a model that shows that doesn't trip happen. all model show that would happen. so that's the potential, the only serious paper that looked at the effect of this technology on say, global inequality showed that it would dramatically reduce global income inequality and would likely reduce global death from the waves. now, to be clear, there's a big set of risks and the same theory this researching this has in a way that i think is wonderful. been often the very 1st to raise those risks from the beginning. but quantitative answers matter. and despite the kind of stuff you heard in the lead in say from the lady from recall, there is not evidence that the risks are really big compared to the benefits. in

fact, we now have many kind of papers from researchers around the world on many of the key risks. you shouldn't trust any one scientists. you should trust a group of people that, that, that surrounds the world. and he's not the, we know that each of the risk that we looked at, the air pollution risk from doing this, the ozone risk, etc. they're real. and the community isn't one of the 1st commit to talk about this risk. but they look relatively small compared to the benefits and to me that is the reason to take it seriously. and i think we have to be very careful. but people who live were pretty rich, will far from the equator. kind of dismissing this when they're not the ones who are going to suffer the most very, not coming hills going to so, so i think, i mean, one of the points that they would need is that you know, that these models suggest that our solar unit could be beneficial, fired southern section. i mean, it could be beneficial, our membership, our, the, my new population on in the future if you want to implement it. but i think it's

important to highlight hello that are basically the research that's being done in the so in order to engineering is being dialed to simulations in climate models, which helps us understand the impact of solar jew engineering on the ot system. so, scientists that work on these models have recently also produced up the boy that list the radius. and so didn't ease in these monitors. and if they're sneaky, highlighted that it gives challenges in determining the impacts of ju engineering on local regional unclaiming conditions. so i mean that i'd like even with that is the thought that's happening right now. it's not taking into account another. our region is that those so i will, they're not your lead to bend of it that they're not perfectly dependency true. it's the same size. i miss that you the same model as just a sec, as, as we use furnished amy impacts of c o 2. so just with when we add c o totally atmosphere, which as a comma, we also can predict exactly what will happen locally. we can do it for either it's

the same underlying science. you can't dismiss the science to suggest solar geometry might be useful and accept besides as just climate as a big risk. kelly, can i open this conversation up a little bit more because we have people online who also will have some questions and, and some thoughts or i'm just gonna go to salient who is on twitter. she says, i'd be interested to know who decides if we go ahead with solo geo engineering or not. the entire world is invested. what if there is a 20 percent chance of causing damage? who gets to vote ok? let's take that chance. kelly. so thank you for that question. so then that's a terrific question. we believe that this field is a field where scientific assessment is really important. open science that allows us stakeholders from around the world to look at the information is really important. and the government government engagement is key. so in, so we're lining, we work with us science agencies and the u. s. government to help develop

a scientific assessment path. and we're hopeful that we can work in the u. n. arena as well to develop a scientific assessment path that help stakeholders and government representatives make these decisions in an open and constructive way. their scientific information is critical to that. and i think we disagree with david on the level of certainty that we have around what the other to see in risks. but that process of driving information so that we can all look at it together is critical. i'm just looking on you achieve in miss rainy is watching on each list. thank you for being part of the show today. if we do solo to engineering, how do we force companies to change the harmful practice? my concern is people will keep doing the same harmful things over and over again. they've, you touched, they shouldn't say it is a climate change solution. but it can hack up. companies will keep doing the wrong

things unless government's forced them to stop. so we won't get climate action unless we have government action to regulate the use of the atmosphere as a waste for our carbon. that's what climate activists including me, have for our entire careers for no question. it won't just happen automatically. we need, we need people marching the streets, we need government action, that's what's gonna change. and nothing about. so really are sure and really change that much one way or the other solar general will provide an excuse, a false excuse. that may be used by some people to try and avoid emissions cuts, but it's wrong, nothing we know about solar geometric changes, the fact that we have to got emissions eventually to net 0 in order to have a stable climate. i'm looking at this, i will share my laptop and david will you talk us through it so that everybody can understand what is going on here and what we're looking at. because we're still in that phase right now where we're looking at theory, but also trying to do some practical research as well. this is part of the

practical research david. yeah, this is an example of a research project called la strasburg control perturbation experiment run by my colleague frank, which, where the objective is to understand with a stratosphere balloon experiment. how some aerosols and the stratosphere cells are just really fine particles that are small if they don't fall very fast, how they interact with each other, how much they stick together, and how particular interaction happens in a plume. and if one was ever going to do this, actually for real, from aircraft, with much, much larger quantities of material, you would need to understand the details of that interaction. so it's more to say this isn't a test whether or not so, or geometry works or not. it's a incremental step to understand a little bit better. some of the underlying slides i want to bring in a voice. it's important because i think there's a lot of people not quite understanding what is going on here, but they're still the research that is happening and then worried about the downside,

the negative impact that what might happen if we change how warm or how cool the us s. have a lesson have solar engineering as a technology that is now being touted as one of the solutions for the climate crisis. can have many unintended consequences. first to fall, it can alter the regional climate, thereby affecting not only the country that is using and or deploying it, but also the countries in the neighborhood. secondly, a task political connotations, because it may divide the world into haves and have nots. that is countries that have access to the stick knology and the ones that do not have access to it, especially the developing world term lead me have security implications as well. because this technology can be used for doing purposes. then by creating some sort of insecurity in many regions as a whole list of concerns they're coming from, the public is there, and i'm just rounding angela. you start, can you pick up?

is that a, a problem with the public being on board with the science is, is the science is ahead of the public angelie. so i think there is definitely a level of suspicion and fewer in the minds of the public. because one is that we all acknowledge that there are a lot of uncertainties at risk associated with solar, jew engineering. and the fact that, you know, people and communities are representatives of these communities that are most biting it away by little bit of the impacts of climate change. they're not yearly at this decision making the, when i'm where these are just going to progress. so, i mean, not being always the why. so helping, you know, not being able to understand what is happening in terms of doing such creates or the sense of how it and uncertain kelly are problematic. is that well, we think it's a really important problem to address, but it does take sophisticated resources to study these questions. and i think

there's a misperception that the research is moving quickly. the, the total level of research in this area around the world is tiny on there are a handful of researchers and just a single digit $1000000.00 per year all over the world studying. and so we think it's actually quite important that we invest resources where they are in the climate models in the observations, in the tiny experiments that will help us understand these things and drive to make that information available and make that participation available to people around the world, so for example, we're working with amazon web services to put global climate bottles on the cloud that could look at these questions in a way that would allow researchers in the global south on other parts of the world to study them for themselves. so we think the problem is not advancing the science, but the problem is creating the resources in access so that everyone can share in it and then have a voice around the table as,

as to what we're going to do. we have a very serious safety situation. the current best projections have over 1000000000 people on the planet displaced. and so we think this is a way of exploring options to see if we can do better than that. i agree with everything kelly just said, and i think i want to add one more point, which is it's easy to on any topic like this cherry people have opinions in different directions to. he said that we know anything, and we don't know very much about what our regular people actually think. there's good evidence from 2 papers that people in more vulnerable climate or climate vulnerable countries or more supportive research on this. so it's true both among climate negotiators, depending on where they came from and it's true in asian countries. if you compare rich and poor, poor countries, you're more supportive. and in general, it appears actually, maybe a little contractor your application. i mean, it may actually be that regular people are more supportive this than experts. i don't think we know that definitely. but they said that we have empirical evidence

from surveys. that's the way it appears all. and it's really difficult as kelly was saying, it's not like this is a big, huge area of research. it's, it was very, it was very nice and is becoming less nice because the climate our time is actually warming up. so people are now thinking, what else, what else can we do here? i'm going to show to headlines. david, i apologize now, is these headlines must that they could, they're going to be quite painful for you to look at controversial test flight aimed at calling the planet cancelled. sweden cancel bill gates, controversial climate cio engineering project is support. i think you're involved in bill gates has put some investment into it. what happened, david? why was it can so i'm sorry, but if you say i got it right there. bill. yes, did not invest. does just plain false. bill gates was one, invest means a financial investment. delegates was one of a whole range. i do it now. david, i did say he was one of the investors. you know, it is not it. okay. yeah. but, but what happens with the vanity return,

which is different from philanthropy and he had no control or insight into this? i think it's kind of important actually when people are saying things that are false, sorry to get my back up. but i think truth matters absolutely. welcome, please continue. the, the, the project that was going to happen in june has been cancelled. it was going to be in swedish lapland, what happened and, and how can you make that connection between what we've been talking about. and the cancellation of that practical research project. so we were only planning to fly there because there's a limited number of places around the world that do house is transfer ballooning. and as we, your space corporation turns out to be a wonderful partner for doing ballooning. so we thought that we might fly with them for that reason and some the sammy counsellor indigenous organization and some environmental groups are produced. a very we're very negative argued that shouldn't happen. and to be clear, they actually can see that it has no risk. but that their risk is the idea which i

think is a consistent view. oh and they argued that it shouldn't happen. a swedish government took that seriously and basically told s s c that they shouldn't verify us. that's what happened. thank you for sharing it with us. that must be quite disappointing for you and the rest of your team at this point. but i want to bring in another point. this one comes from catriona mckinnon. who's thinking about ok, if we get a little bit further along with the science, then what do we need to be thinking about his yes. need to start a public conversation about solar radiation management soon. and that conversation needs to be focused on the date and difficult ethical questions that this new technology raises for us collectively. and in particular, we need to start talking soon about how to govern research into this new technology . in order to mitigate the rest of the technology running ahead of

governance. and i am just wondering, are we there yet? i know you have wrinkles. david, david hickory should have been talking serious about governance 30 years ago. yeah, i mean, when i 1st became involved in this, i and many other people have argued that biggest problem is governance. and we need to begin govern discussions are hard. we need to begin the conversations early in order to have any chance of making reasonable decisions when the real decisions come half the decisions to be clear they shouldn't be made by scientists. they need be made in some organized way that is as legitimate and democratic as possible. but that can all happen in a 2nd. and he, i'm just about to wrap up what final thoughts that day. so i think it's important for people to know that these items will owed you engineering guidance. he is being dominated by a group of institutions that is based in the globe. not so the only constructive way forward on this is to establish an international governance mechanic. so that is, that is sort of dev luck to international participation. okay,

thank you angela. i would also, we're just right at the end of the show. you pull up a point that needed a new show to into, to talk about that point. but thank you actually for ending on why the debate will continue angelie kelly david on you too. thanks for your comments. really appreciate it. i see you next time. take care. ah frank assessments. this crisis is continued to weaken luca shenker, even though perhaps he believes in the beginning, that what's that informed opinions? i think politicians will now be under incredible pressure from their young people. that is one of the most of the things that come out of this critical debate. do you think they should be facilitated? not sure. okay, it's a great, it's a really simple question. let's give samuel a child wants that inside story on al jazeera, on accounting,

the cost inflation supply chain wires from on the chrome at the fall in 2021. so what's in store for 20? $22.00. we have a grand profit, johns of the heart of china's economic woes, were beijing bill to revive growth and going mainstream. is it another begin the crypto currency? counting the cost on al jazeera, ah, the health of humanity is at stake. a global pandemic requires a global response, w h l is the guardian of global health, delivering life saving tunes, supplies, and training to help the world's most vulnerable people, uniting across borders to speed up the development of tests, treatments, and of vaccine. working with scientists and health workers to learn all we can about the virus keeping you up to date with what's happening on the ground in the world and in the lab. advocating for everyone to have access to central health services. now, more than ever, the world needs w h. m. making a healthy,

a world to you for everyone. ah, ah, i never doubted it. and i knew that today would calm justice finally served 3 white men are handed down life sentences by court for the murder of black man ahmed, o, aubrey, in the us state of georgia. ah, i'm him wrong calling this out. is there a life into a house or coming up violence, a spiraling out of control the security forces in cars? it's dawn i told that they.