award went to will smith for his role in king richard, marty's 3 golden globes non ceremony which happened at this wacky hotel behind me was more bad news for the film industry's traditional business model. with a new survey showing nearly half of all pre pandemic, moviegoers are not buying tickets anymore, and some of them will be staying home for good. rob reynolds al jazeera, los angeles, ah. services out there. these are the top stories and an australian quarter to return to government decision to cancel, never joker, which is visa. the tennis star has been released from immigration detention, and plans to compete in the australian open in a weeks time with the immigration minister could still intervene. sir clark is following the case from brisbin in australia, ministry trans, who's the, the lawyer, the legal counsel representing the government. he has noted in

a court hearing this afternoon or that they will comply with these orders, but a personal power of cancellation was still being considered. so tran had requested on a number of occasions in the hearing on monday that they get more time. they also, the government requested more time on the weekend. they wanted this hearing to be on wednesday, simply to gather more evidence and get more submissions. and delight is hearing simply by the sounds of it because i didn't have a strong enough case tennis, australia, but we were coming this decision because like president cassandra mounted to give hes described days of anti government protests as an attend to cooper. he says he will announce the new government line up on tuesday. moscow has confirmed his peacekeeping troops deployed to quell the violent will stay until the situation stabilizes completely. more than 160 people have been killed and almost 8000 others detained. according mid march has sent since the acidly, the uncensored g to an additional 4 years in jail said she was found guilty of a legally possessing walkie talkies and breaking karone of ours restrictions. she's

been detained since marriage recoup. last february c, a u. s. and russian officials have begun taught in geneva about the military build up around ukraine. they kickstart the, a week of diplomacy aimed at the escalating the crisis. washington and its allies have threatened to impose tough sanctioned, if moscow invaded neighbor. russia is demanding guarantees that ukraine will not become part of a european military land. it also wants day to, to reduce troops and weapons in europe. footage from the u. s. as state of california has captured the moment, a passenger train collided with a plane which should crash landed on a railway line, aircraft lost power shortly off to take off. police did pull the pilot to safety, just seconds before him. yes, that we have lines more news coming up here on the algebra right after we joined the stress over. did you know you can watch out as they were english streaming live

on like youtube channel, plus thousands of our programs. award winning documentaries. and in depth news reports subscribe to youtube dot com, forward slash al jazeera english. ah, i am for me. okay, today on the stream could blocking out the sun actually help reduce the temperature down here on earth. let me show you what i mean. to instance, you could have a material pumped into our stratosphere, that material could reflect the sun's rays or solar energy all the way back to the sun. meaning that we down here a cat color, that is a very basic. we're dementia understanding of sola, geo engineering. there are pros, there are cons, though, unknowns and unknowns. there is a debate. let's take

a look. should we be pursuing sola geo engineering? the answer is that we just don't know. what we do know is that the impacts of climate change are serious and getting worse, and that we're not doing all we need to do to address the climate crisis. so would you engineering might be a useful part of the portfolio of responses, but it also entails a wide range of poorly understood risks. a well designed research program can help us understand those ris and whether or not solar g o engineering deserves the spot . in the portfolio of climate change responses, solar, you engineering is a really dangerous idea. it is messing with the global climate system. it is basically just about suppressing some of the symptoms of climate change. it is not doing anything about the root causes and it comes with tremendous risks for global communities and ecosystems. so instead of betting on high risk techno fixes

what we're really should be doing as get out of fossil fuels, that means co and gas and not be expanding any of that infrastructure. and there's really no way we can do wednesday our way out of the climate crisis. some of i guess and nodding their head, some of agatha shaking their heads. let the debate vicki and hello, david. hello, angelie kelly. really nice to have you on the stream. david, we introduce yourself to our international audience. i'm debbie keith, them professor at harvard in public policy and also mentioning i worked on this topic, i worked on climate for about 30 years. nice to have a hello angela. tell everybody who you are, what you do. hi, be mine, and thank you for me for having me on the show. my name is angela michelle. moving in. i'm an energy policy consulting based in your daily, in the i haven't you done? these are things. what was your engineering, my interest in the space, excuse me, from a bush that's interested in climate change and the, the other solutions that we are looking at to deal with that you great to have you

and kelly, please introduce yourself. i international audience watching right now. hi fremy. it's good to be here. my name is kelly wander. i'm the executive director of the 3 year olds, are non profit organization called sober lining. and our focus in silver lining is near term climate risk. so we drive our research, we work with government stakeholders, members of the public, our youth organizations to look at expanding our portfolio of options to address climate risk in the next 30 to 40 years. where we may have some gaps that might not be addressed in other ways. thank you. kelly. thank at a thank you david, an audience. i know you have thoughts on this. i know you've got opinions and maybe the a couple of things that you want to ask out line on past guess. jumping to the comment section and you can be part of this discussion. the idea kelly and david that sola geo engineering may well be a climate change solution. david,

you go 1st. so solution is a loaded word and then picks up exactly on the click critique you heard, which is the idea that it's the source solution. nobody in this debate who is remotely sensible things as a solution. i don't just put that off your her, but it may be is a way to substantially reduce risks over the next generation in ways that we can achieve by emissions cuts alone. so maybe that the combination of emissions cuts and solar g r sharing could be significantly safer, particularly for the world's most vulnerable than would be emissions cuts alone. but no single thing as a solution. even emissions cause alone and our solution cuz we clearly need adaptation. a complicated problem, my climate change has many different things. we need one of which may be vis technology. hey, one of the things that we found as we were putting the show together, the streams altogether,

was trying to find out or of the different ways that maybe you could reflect off the sun. the suns relationally energy. so you can call at climate if that was possible. i'm looking here on my laptop at marine cal, brightening science visibility and a plan for reset. can you tell us what marine cow brightening is certainly, and i appreciate your characterization. we don't tend to refer to these techniques as blocking the sun, but rather increasing the reflection of sunlight. so relatively modest amount of increase in the reflection of sunlight of clouds, of particles in the atmosphere can produce quite a large object in terms of heat energy. moving out of your system and m marine prod, brightening ideas based in the image that you showed on observations from things that already happen in the system today, where particles from emissions and natural sources mixed with clouds in ways that

make them slightly brighter. so in the image here are the streaks that you see in the clouds. those bright streaks are actually created by the emission from ship and globally. today, scientists believe that the totality of the particles and emissions, not the particles that produce greenhouse gas, the fax, but those sort of dirtier kind of pollution particles. one of the side effects is that they mixed with clouds in this way, and globally are, are thought to be creating something of a cooling effect that we don't understand very well. the idea behind marine cod brightening is to use a cleaner or more benign material like seesaw, particles from ocean spray and sea water bright and clouds over the ocean that are particularly susceptible to the effect. and it's thought, although there's a very i'm going to be on it. if last me in the bit, right. you've lost me. ok. a little bit. so help me get back on track. what are

you? this is me, you can hear me thinking. now libel is her hi. all right, so if you were explaining what, what then goes up into the stratosphere to help cool us theoretically what it, what are you, what is going up in it, in marine cloud brightening materials, going into the lower atmosphere. so it's coming up from the surface, right, and in marine club, right. the proposal is it's a salt spring that's generated from sea water ok sprayed over the ocean into low line clouds. and so it brightens patches of these clouds in a way that reflects large amounts of sunlight back to space. ok in a way that could produce a global cooling effect. thank you for speaking slightly. that does not ha, yeah, the audience, or like way ahead of me. i'm, does i the kelly just say,

angela. so this is, this is fascinating. there's so much research and science going on here. why would you be concerned? no. so i think the 1st thing to realize is that, you know, we had it on the spot where your heart linked towards a climate and what you see and climate scientists and policy nicholas have mean us, are you aware of that? but the point is that there are 2 camps of pot on by the we need to pause you. so lord, you and he really such one camp says that, you know, we don't know enough about solar, jew engineering and it could potentially be an option that because he was in case of a climate emergency i. so we need to know more about it. so we need more research, the other count, which also consists of a different set of sam this, it consists of environmental policy, exports, and also other governments, such as the united kingdom that has put out statement saying that granted, he thought that is available and, and that he so said if my map, if we feel that need know enough already to make the statement that we don't need

more on solar, ga thinking such because it is likely to cause more detriment that benefit to certain sections of the population. hydrogen's. so the question do early on solar, jew engineering research is that there needs to be a point in the scene such where we stop and ask ourselves, brenda, we know enough to make this call it on whether we need to progress with the thought . the point is that, so no, you engineering cannot be an indefinite quests to make it a workable solution, despite all that think i don't think it is, i think, but here's what i think we know with real confidence. there's an enormous amount of research now over a decade and a half, the suggested the biggest drivers of global kind of risks are peak temperatures. and they're especially drivers for the world's poorest. they kill people. they may people last economically productive and they make it harder to learn literally. the one thing we know from every single model, no exceptions about solar geo assuring is it would reduce peak temperatures and do

it in a way that's pretty uniform. it's not like there's some group assigned as a model that shows that doesn't trip happen. all model show that would happen. so that's the potential, the only serious paper that looked at the effect of this technology on say, global inequality showed that it would dramatically reduce global income inequality and would likely reduce global death from the waves. now, to be clear, there's a big set of risks and the same theory this researching this has in a way that i think is wonderful. been often the very 1st to raise those risks from the beginning. but quantitative answers matter. and despite the kind of stuff you heard in the lead in say from the lady from recall, there is not evidence that the risks are really big compared to the benefits. in fact, we now have many sided papers from researchers around the world on many of the key risks. you shouldn't trust any one scientists. you should trust a group of people. it's that, that surrounds the world. and not the we know that each of the rest that we looked

at, the air pollution risk from doing this, the ozone risk, etc. they're real. and the community isn't one of the 1st commit to talk about this risk. but they look relatively small compared to the benefits and to me that is the reason to take it seriously. and i think we have to be very careful. but people who live were pretty rich, will far from the equator. kind of dismissing this when they're not the ones who are going to suffer most very not coming hills going to so, so i think, i mean, one of the points that they would need is that you know, that these models suggest that our soldiers unit could be beneficial fired certain sections, i mean it could be beneficial, our membership, our, the, my new population on in the future if you want to implement it. but i think it's important to highlight hello that are basically the research that's being done in this way. no jew engineering is being dialed to simulations in climate models, which helps us understand the impact of solar jew engineering on the ot system. so

scientists that work on these models have recently also produced up the boy that list the radius. and so i think these indian monitors and if they're sneaky, highlighted that it gives challenges in determining the impacts of jew engineering on local regional unclaiming conditions. so i mean that i like even with that is the thought that's happening right now. it's not taking into account in order our region is that those don't, they're not your lead to bend with that they're not perfectly dependable. susie true, it's the same size. i miss that you the same model just a sec, as, as we use furnished amy impacts of c o 2. so just with when we add c o totally atmosphere, which is a clamor, we also can predict exactly what will happen locally. we can do it for either it's the same underlying science. you can't dismiss the science to suggest solar geometry might be useful and accept besides as just climate as a big risk. kelly, can i open this conversation up a little bit more because we have people online who also will have some questions

and, and some thoughts or i'm just gonna go to salient who is on twitter. she says, i'd be interested to know who decides if we go ahead with solo geo engineering or not. the entire world is invested. what if there's a 20 percent chance of causing damage? who gets the vote ok, let's take that chance. kelly. so thank you for that question. so then that's a terrific question. we believe that this field is a field where scientific and assessment is really important. open science that allows stakeholders from around the world to look at the information is really important. and the governance, government engagement is key. so in, so we're lining, we work with us science agencies and the u. s. government to help develop a scientific assessment path. and we're hopeful that we to work into un arena as well to develop a scientific assessment path that help stakeholders and government representatives

make these decisions in an open and constructive way. their scientific information is critical to that. and i think we disagree with david on the level of certainty that we have around what the other to see in risks. but that process of driving information so that we can all look at it together is critical. i'm just looking on you achieving this rainy is watching on each of this. thank you for being part of the show today. if we do solo to you engineering, how do we force companies to change the harmful practice? my concern is people will keep doing the same harmful things over and over again. they would you touch and they shouldn't say it is a climate change solution. but it can hack up. companies will keep doing the wrong things unless the government's forced them to stop. so we won't get climate action unless we have government action to regulate the use of the atmosphere as a waste time for our carbon. that's what climate activists including me,

have on our entire careers for no question. it won't happen automatically. we need, we need people marching the streets when the government actually that's what's going to change it and nothing about solvers sure. and really changes that much one way or the other solar general will provide an excuse, a false excuse. that may be used by some people to try and avoid emissions cuts, but it's wrong, nothing. we know about solar g i sharing changes the fact that we have to cut emissions eventually to net 0 in order to have a stable climate. i'm looking at this image here on my laptop, david, will you talk us through it so that everybody can understand what is going on here and what we're looking at. because we're still in that phase right now where we're looking at theory, but also trying to do some practical research as well. this is part of the practical research david. yeah, this is an example of a research project called les stress period and controlled perturbation experiment run by my colleague frank, which, where the objective is to understand with

a stratosphere balloon experiment. how, how some aerosols in the stratosphere cells are just really fine particles that are small if they don't fall very fast, how they interact with each other, how much they stick together, and how particular interaction happens in a plume? and if one was ever going to do this actually for real, from aircraft, with much, much larger quantities and material, you would need to understand the details of that interaction. so it's more to say, this isn't a test whether or not so, or geometry works or not. it's a incremental step to understand a little bit better, some of the underlying science i want to bring in a voice. it's important because i think there's a lot of people not quite understanding what is going on here, but they're still the research that is happening. and then worried about the down slide, the negative impact that what might happen if we change how warm or how cool the us s have a listen, have a look solar engineering as a technology that is now being touted as one of the solutions for the climate

crisis can have many unintended consequences. first of all, it can alter the regional climate, thereby affecting not only the country that is using and or deploying it, but also the countries in the neighborhood. secondly, a task political connotations, because it may divide the world into haves and have nots. that is countries that have access to this technology and the ones that do not have access to it, especially the developing world term lead me have security implications as well. because this technology can be used for doing purposes, then by creating some sort of insecurity in many regions as our whole list of concerns they're coming from, the public is there, and i'm just rounding angela. you start, can you pick up? is that a, a problem with the public being on board with the science is, is the science is ahead of the public angelie. so i think there is definitely

a level of suspicion and fury in the minds of the public because one is that we all acknowledge that there are a lot of uncertainties that risks associated with solar. jew engineering and the fact that you know, people and communities are representatives of these communities that are most by little bit by little bit of the impacts of climate change. they're not yearly at this decision making the, when i read these are just going to progress. so, i mean, not being always the why sort of thing, you know, not being able to understand what is happening in terms of being such creates or the sense of going on. so d k, a problematic is that, well, we think it's a really important problem to address, but it does take sophisticated resources to study these questions. and i think there's a misperception that the research is moving quickly. the, the total level of research in this area around the world is tiny on, there are a handful of researchers and just a single digit $1000000.00 per year all over the world studying. and so we think

it's actually quite important that we invest resources where they are in the climate models in the observations, in the tiny experiments that will help us understand these things and drive to make that information available and make that participation available to people around the world, so for example, we're working with amazon web services to put global climate bottles on the cloud that could look at these questions in a way that would allow researchers in the global south on other parts of the world to study them for themselves. so we think the problem is not advancing the science, but the problem is creating the resources in access so that everyone can share in it and then have a voice around the table as, as to what we're going to do. we have a very serious safety situation. the current best projections have over 1000000000 people on the planet displaced. and so we think this is

a way of exploring options to see if we can do better than that. i agree with everything kelly just said, and i think i want to add one more point, which is it's easy to on any topic like this cherry people have opinions in different directions to. he said that we know anything, and we don't know very much about what regular people actually think. there's good evidence from 2 papers that people in more vulnerable climate or climate vulnerable countries are more supportive research on this. so it's true both among climate negotiators, depending on where they came from and it's true in asian countries. if you compare rich and poor, poor countries, you're more supportive. and in general, it appears actually maybe a little contradict your application for me that it may actually be that regular people are more supportive of this than experts. i don't think we know that definitely. but he said that we have empirical evidence from surveys. that's the way it appears all, and it's really difficult as kelly was saying, it's not like this is a big, huge area of research. it's, it was very, it was very nice and it's becoming less nice because the climate our time is

actually warming up. so people are now thinking, what else, what else can we do here? i'm going to show to headlines. david, i apologize now is these headlines mosque, but they, they are going to be quite painful for you to look at controversial test flight aimed at calling the planet cancelled. sweden cancel bill gates, controversial climate cio engineering project. this stuff, what i think you're involved in bill gates has put some investment into it. what happened, david? why was it cancer? i'm sorry, but if you say i got interrupt right there though, he did not address does just plain false. bill gates was one, invest means a financial investment though gates was one of a whole range. oh, i see you at that david. i did say he was one of the investors. is not it. okay. yeah. but, but what happens quickly as of an outer return, which is different from philanthropy and he had no control or insight into this? i think it's kind of important actually when people are saying things that are false, sorry to get my back up. but i think truth matters. absolutely. well,

please continue. the, the, the project that was going to happen in june has been cancelled. it was going to be in swedish lapland, what happened and, and how can you make that connection between what we've been talking about and the cancellation of that practical research project. so we were only planning to fly there because there's a limited number of places around the world that do health is transferable. learning and a swedish space corporation turns out to be a wonderful partner for doing ballooning. so we thought that we might fly with them for that reason and some the sammy counsellor indigenous organization and some environmental groups are produced. a very we're very negative, argued that it shouldn't happen. and to be clear, they actually can see that it has no risk. but that their risk is the idea which i think is a consistent view. oh and they argued that it shouldn't happen. a swedish government took that seriously and basically told s s c that they shouldn't verify us. that's

what happened. thank you for sharing that with us. that was quite disappointing for you and the rest of your team at this point, but i want to bring in a another point. this one comes from catriona mckinnon. who's thinking about ok, if we get a little bit further along with the science, then what do we need to be thinking about his yes. need to start a public conversation about solar radiation management soon. and that conversation needs to be focused on the d and difficult ethical questions that this new technology raises for us collectively. and in particular, we need to start talking soon about how to govern research into this new technology . in order to mitigate the rest of the technology running ahead of governance and a, i'm just wondering, are we there yet? i know you have wrinkles. they've everything. we should've been talking serious about governance 30 years ago. yeah. i mean, when i 1st became involved in this,

i and many other people have argued that biggest problem is governance. and we need to begin, govern discussions are hard. we need to begin the conversations early in order to have any chance of making reasonable decisions when the real decisions come on half the decisions to be clear they shouldn't be made by scientists. they need be made in some organized way that is as legitimate and democratic as possible, but that can all happen in a 2nd. and he and just about to wrap up the final thoughts that day. so i think it's important for people to know that be so tens willard you engineering currently is being dominated by a group of imaged institutions that is based in the globe. not so the only constructive way forward on this is to establish an international governance mechanic. so that is, that is sort of deadlock to international participation. okay. thank you, angela. i would also, we're just right at the end of the show. you pull up a point that needed a new show to into, to talk about that point. but thank you actually for ending on why the debate will continue angelie kelly david on you too. thanks for your comments. really

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